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Vets may have been shafted this codex, but they did get the option for autoguns.

Just noticed, Demolition charges gone from codex, possibly explains power reduction of Special Weapons squad. Now instead of 3 models (of 6) must take demolition charge or replace their lasgun with a special weapon its just 3 must replace with a special weapons, updating changes list.

Played a competitive against chaos today. Some observations:

Some of my observations:

The catachan doctrine combined with the the manticores and master of ordance makes them EXTREMELY dangerous and potent for enemy armour / multi wound models.

Scions are dangerous as ever, and plasma absolutely worth it. The scions wrecked the enemy Knight with their plasma guns. The extra shot on a '6 came up so many times, really boosting their damage potential.

Vengeance for cadia combined with the vulture gunships' strafing run was so insanely powerful.

The game was called on turn 2.

 Zontarz wrote:
Vets may have been shafted this codex, but they did get the option for autoguns.

And in the end, is this not the most important change of all?

I raced to check the valkyrie drop ships grav chute rule because I was expecting a text change similar to the admech castellans repulser grid, but it's the same as the apendix lol. So incredibly dirty, but yet now valkyries get +1 to hit when in hover mode, rumors made it sound as if they simply ignored the movement penalty in hover mode but its so much better, a hovering valk that doesn't move hits on 3's this isn't incredible but it isn't bad either considering how deadly this makes a gunship with MRP's and heavy B's. Thats quite a bit of dakka right there. Oh btw they also got cheaper lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should note this has me gitty since I was plannign on putting a mixture of straken, harker, priest, company commanders/command squads and bullgryn in to a pair of drop ships and I am even more exited after reading the reilcs. There are a pair of swords in there, one catachan and then the one leaked that are gross on catachan company commanders. One is s+2 ap-4 d3 dmg while the catachan one is s+2 ap-3 d2.... with the buffs nearby thats a lot of beat down for a bunch of over muscled action movie heros lol

btw not only are demo charges gone So are evicerators on priests.... again

I like the sound of cheaper Valks, with plasma guns and Taurox Primes going up in price, I was running short of point for my list, this might allow me to fit everything.

 Red Corsair wrote:
So are evicerators on priests.... again

Would there be any benefit to taking the codex one over the index?

 Red Corsair wrote:

I should note this has me gitty since I was plannign on putting a mixture of straken, harker, priest, company commanders/command squads and bullgryn in to a pair of drop ships and I am even more exited after reading the reilcs. There are a pair of swords in there, one catachan and then the one leaked that are gross on catachan company commanders. One is s+2 ap-4 d3 dmg while the catachan one is s+2 ap-3 d2.... with the buffs nearby thats a lot of beat down for a bunch of over muscled action movie heros lol

Those are both nice, but I think I'd rather take a Power Fist and have one of the more defensive relics (like the Death Mask of Ollanius).

 daedalus wrote:
I really saw more point increases than that coming. Wow. This is going to be a really, really good codex.

So, like, what's the guard primary weakness at this point? Mobility still? It seems like everything is rewarding you for sitting still or not moving very far (in the case of the LR).

Tallarn are super mobile and, in my opinion, the best regiment, at least on tables with good terrain. Thye get the old old eldar trick of "Pop out, shoot, order yourself back behind cover" that vectored engines used to do in 4th I belive (and was tournament winning).

I'm thinking a plasma command squad with a medkit to back upup a unit of crusaders so they can potentially get two models back in a round while also giving the crusaders have some ranged support. Probably run them a Vostroyan so they can use "Repel the enemy!" And fire those plasma gun into a unit that charges the crusaders.

Aight so, I'm getting my Codex this thursday so I'm doing this out the top of my head from leaks. But how about we start listing all the little changes that are in the Codex compared to the index?
So I'm not talking about the big changes like the regimental doctrines or the changes to Grinding Advance/Steel Behemoth, but the little ones.

Please help me by adding/correcting the changes I wrote down:

-Pask/Tank commander; can now order themselves?

-Leman Russ tank down by 10 points.

-Creed now has 12" order range?

-Conscripts are down to a max squad size of 30 and only accept orders on a 4+.

-Plasma gun point cost increased from 7 to 13 for BS 3+ models.

-Bullgryn Slab shield now gives +2 to their save, rather than a 2+ save.

-Master of Ordnance aura improved from 3" to 6".

-Armoured Sentinels improved from T5 to T6.

-Hellhound Inferno Cannon;
from D6 S6 AP-1 damage 2
to 2D6 S6 AP-1 damage 1

-Devildog, Melta cannon changed to Assault D3?

-Basilisk Earthshaker Cannon from AP-2 to AP-3.

-Hydra went down 20 points in cost?

-Valkyries went down 20 point in cost?
Valkyries now get +1 to hit when hovering.

-Super-heavies;
All went down 40 points?
All main guns improved by D6 shots.
exceptions;
-Shadowsword; changed from D6 to 3D3.
-Stormlord.


Any other changes?

Wait a second... Under advisors and auxilla I don't see the officio assassinorum listed. Does that mean guard can no longer sprinkle in an assassin or two? That seems bad :(

I did a post a couple of pages ago, most of what you wrotes right but Hydra went down 15 not 20 and not all Superheavies went down in price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ThePorcupine wrote:
Wait a second... Under advisors and auxilla I don't see the officio assassinorum listed. Does that mean guard can no longer sprinkle in an assassin or two? That seems bad :(

They can as Imperial but they will lose battleforged and regimental doctrine, you could have a detachment of Auxillaries and put the assassins in there without losing anything as Aux wont gain regimental bonus anyway.

WatcherZero wrote:
I did a post a couple of pages ago, most of what you wrotes right but Hydra went down 15 not 20 and not all Superheavies went down in price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ThePorcupine wrote:
Wait a second... Under advisors and auxilla I don't see the officio assassinorum listed. Does that mean guard can no longer sprinkle in an assassin or two? That seems bad :(

They can as Imperial but they will lose battleforged and regimental doctrine, you could have a detachment of Auxillaries and put the assassins in there without losing anything as Aux wont gain regimental bonus anyway.

Right. So if you want to take an assassin, it needs to be in its own detachment, will cost you 1CP. And you can only take 1 assassin per auxillary detachment. So god held you if you want to take 2.
Seems like assassins are rather unusable :/

ThePorcupine wrote:
Right. So if you want to take an assassin, it needs to be in its own detachment, will cost you 1CP. And you can only take 1 assassin per auxillary detachment. So god held you if you want to take 2.
Seems like assassins are rather unusable :/

1cp for an assassin doesn't seem too bad. Or you could take a vanguard or supreme command detachment and splash in some inquisitors or knights or something.

Had the pleasure of making one of our uber competitive players concede the end of turn 1 against mono cadia:

Bobby G; two units of custodes a plurality of deep strike GK paladins and some fabulous psychic & shooting mixed in somewhere for good measure. wiped fully 1/3 of the non-deep striking part of his army by going first, and 1/2 of it in overwatch.

Cadian innate reroll 1s and +1 to hit stratagem is phenomenal; 30 3+ reroll 1 to hit Heavy Bolters from a shadowsword is actually filth. Defensive gunners on quad sponson shadowsword made me roll 110 dice in my opponents phase, killing no less than 7 Paladins and spoiling every charge attempt.

That in 2k I had 3 SHTs, one with quad sponsons and 3 manticores made me realise that i'll need to play index without an appointment. Without even trying, IG can straight up suck the fun out of the game :|

Mobility is nice and all, but Cadian IG just flat out ignores the need for a combo system for artillery *and* superheavies by having it built in; combined with the overlapping fire rule to flat out delete units who look at you funny and I think hardcore cadian guard is going to win by tabling every time; they actually have enough high accuracy unit ending weapons that mobility and cover simply won't matter.

 malamis wrote:
Cadian innate reroll 1s and +1 to hit stratagem is phenomenal

Isn't the +1 to hit stratagem Vostroyan only?

ThePorcupine wrote:

WatcherZero wrote:
I did a post a couple of pages ago, most of what you wrotes right but Hydra went down 15 not 20 and not all Superheavies went down in price.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ThePorcupine wrote:
Wait a second... Under advisors and auxilla I don't see the officio assassinorum listed. Does that mean guard can no longer sprinkle in an assassin or two? That seems bad :(

They can as Imperial but they will lose battleforged and regimental doctrine, you could have a detachment of Auxillaries and put the assassins in there without losing anything as Aux wont gain regimental bonus anyway.

Right. So if you want to take an assassin, it needs to be in its own detachment, will cost you 1CP. And you can only take 1 assassin per auxillary detachment. So god held you if you want to take 2.
Seems like assassins are rather unusable :/

Well, or you just take a Vanguard detachment with a Commissar HQ and 3 Assassins.

 Trickstick wrote:

 malamis wrote:
Cadian innate reroll 1s and +1 to hit stratagem is phenomenal

Isn't the +1 to hit stratagem Vostroyan only?

there are 2:

Cadian is pick an enemy unit that's been wounded this shooting phase; the rest of your army gets +1 to hit against this unit.

Vostroyan is pick one of your units; it gets +1 to hit.

The former means a unit is erased if you can get that wound in (Plasma Pask is good for this), especially if you have artillery.

 malamis wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:

 malamis wrote:
Cadian innate reroll 1s and +1 to hit stratagem is phenomenal

Isn't the +1 to hit stratagem Vostroyan only?

there are 2:

Cadian is pick an enemy unit that's been wounded this shooting phase; the rest of your army gets +1 to hit

Vostroyan is pick one of your units; it gets +1 to hit.

The former means a unit is erased if you can get that wound in (Plasma Pask is good for this), especially if you have artillery.

Ah. I thought you just meant the standard +1 version.

 malamis wrote:
Had the pleasure of making one of our uber competitive players concede the end of turn 1 against mono cadia:

Bobby G; two units of custodes a plurality of deep strike GK paladins and some fabulous psychic & shooting mixed in somewhere for good measure. wiped fully 1/3 of the non-deep striking part of his army by going first, and 1/2 of it in overwatch.

The... uber competitive player running grey knights, custodes, Robby in the same list?

Hahahahahaha oh god

Did you just brag about stomping some random guys clearly awful list with an eldar tier codex?

Still debating cadian or tallaran. Deep striking shadowsword and leman russes is deadly.

If you want more than one, you could take them in a Vanguard detachment. A primaris psyker as HQ, maybe another support elite (enginseer, priest, etc), and as manny assassins as you like, *and* you even get a CP out of it.

Edit: Seems Ive left this tab open for too long... ah well. What everyone else said, I guess. <.<

SilverAlien wrote:


The... uber competitive player running grey knights, custodes, Robby in the same list?

Hahahahahaha oh god

Did you just brag about stomping some random guys clearly awful list with an eldar tier codex?

I dunno about 'awful' given he's undefeated with it since the SM codex came out; may just be the local meta

Thing is I was aware the victory literally had nothing to do with me; all I did was shoot everything at what was in line of sight from left to right, and react to his actions in over watch. I didn't even move a single model. This is somewhat worrying from a codex design viewpoint :|

Custodes are just awful cost wise, just drown them in bodies. Brimstones will literally destroy them and even conscripts can if you toss a priest nearby. Same really applies to all elite infantry right now, though I suppose greyknights are slightly less vulnerable with smite.

I wouldn't be using this particular battle as your baseline for the codex. Guard should've already been able to beat him, I'd say it's either due to your list changing or you were using something kinda suboptimal before that got brought in line with this dex.

Shadowswords are kinda busted but in all honesty this one is really on him. I'd wait and see if anyone else can put up a fight. There are a few lists that should be able to still.

I mean, how much terrain did you have that you could even shoot anything turn 1 against an elite army? Why didn't he just hide?

 Tyr13 wrote:
If you want more than one, you could take them in a Vanguard detachment. A primaris psyker as HQ, maybe another support elite (enginseer, priest, etc), and as manny assassins as you like, *and* you even get a CP out of it.

Edit: Seems Ive left this tab open for too long... ah well. What everyone else said, I guess. <.<

Still seems bad. My tank company list included one eversor assassin to deepstrike in and cause havoc. I don't own 3. Or any enginseers.

ThePorcupine wrote:

 Tyr13 wrote:
If you want more than one, you could take them in a Vanguard detachment. A primaris psyker as HQ, maybe another support elite (enginseer, priest, etc), and as manny assassins as you like, *and* you even get a CP out of it.

Edit: Seems Ive left this tab open for too long... ah well. What everyone else said, I guess. <.<

Still seems bad. My tank company list included one eversor assassin to deepstrike in and cause havoc. I don't own 3. Or any enginseers.

Eh, jut take the 1cp hit if you have to. Make your relic the extra cp one and you are still ahead of where you were.

 Trickstick wrote:
I mean, how much terrain did you have that you could even shoot anything turn 1 against an elite army? Why didn't he just hide?

About 1/2 of the mid line was blocked line of sight, (it's GW so terrain is literally underfoot all the time). Only the ShadowSword and Hellhammer had full line of sight to everything, Pask only got his lascannon off by the time I got to him. The third SHC didn't actually do anything as the rest of the army was a conga line of characters out of range by the time I finished the 3++ wall off.

So if you add in forgeworld kits do you lose the doctrines? Or do they just not benefit from it.