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lahcimus wrote:
Well, from what I'm seeing Tauroxes wont benefit from any Doctrines save Tempestus one, as they dont have <REGIMENT> keyword.

Do they need to? Its 70ish point for a cheap 10 man transport with a pair of autocannons. That's worth two squads worth of points.

They dont, i simply saw some people include them for benefits from difrent doctrines

Is there any point to Commissars in a Mordian army anymore? They're either LD 8 via Parade Drill or LD 8 via the Commissar right? LD 9 if there's a banner. Or does Parade Drill go into effect after the Commissar bonus?

lahcimus wrote:
They dont, i simply saw some people include them for benefits from difrent doctrines

I never noticed that. I knew primes didn't have a regiment keyword as they're stormtrooper vehicles but if they don't have a regiment keyword for the normal autocannon ones that seems really weird and can't be intentional, it'd be the only vehicle we have that's not a plane that can't take a regiment trait, at least as far as the codex is concerned.

Well now that i double checked it I must have looked at Prime twice by mistake, normal one have Regiment keyworld.

 necrontyrOG wrote:
Is there any point to Commissars in a Mordian army anymore? They're either LD 8 via Parade Drill or LD 8 via the Commissar right? LD 9 if there's a banner. Or does Parade Drill go into effect after the Commissar bonus?

If you have conscripts they still have a place. Don't let them anywhere near standard infantry squads.

So I've been playing Cadian and think laurels of command is way better on Cadians than other regiments, and is so good that the superior tactical training warlord trait is better than grand strategist in many Cadian lists.

The full rerolls to hit when take aim is combined with Cadian Doctrine makes orders more important than it is on other lists. It's usually more important to get the full reroll to hit on the lascannon than FRFSRF at 13-24", but when I get both it's amazing. This is particularly good at erasing a tough vehicle once it's takes a single plasma wound from a Russ the infantry based lascannons hit 8 out of 9 times with overlapping fields of fire or 75% of the time when a +1 and -1 to hit cancel each other out.

My Infantry consists of 6 infantry squads with lascannons and plasma guns and 6 mortar HWS. I run 3 company commanders.

Combine squads 2 infantry squads near the astro path that has mental fortitude. Spend 1 CP to issue an additional order. Now 4 infantry squads have a chance for laurels double orders and I have 3 chances to make additional orders from the Laurels company commander.

This will yield 2 to 5 orders more than I have infantry squads. That excess goes into the mortar HWS giving them full Cadian rerolls to hit.

The infantry in my Cadian Brigade put out a lot of dakka for brigade filler units. I make up for their lack of mobility with an Elysian vanguard and rough riders in the Cadian Brigade.

Speaking of Relics, the main ones seem to be the Laurels of Command, the Aquila and the Dagger.

So I'm curious as to whether anyone has gotten use out of the other relics.

Does anyone use the Death Mask or the Emperor's Benediction or one of the others?

 schadenfreude wrote:
So I've been playing Cadian and think laurels of command is way better on Cadians than other regiments, and is so good that the superior tactical training warlord trait is better than grand strategist in many Cadian lists.

The full rerolls to hit when take aim is combined with Cadian Doctrine makes orders more important than it is on other lists. It's usually more important to get the full reroll to hit on the lascannon than FRFSRF at 13-24", but when I get both it's amazing. This is particularly good at erasing a tough vehicle once it's takes a single plasma wound from a Russ the infantry based lascannons hit 8 out of 9 times with overlapping fields of fire or 75% of the time when a +1 and -1 to hit cancel each other out.

My Infantry consists of 6 infantry squads with lascannons and plasma guns and 6 mortar HWS. I run 3 company commanders.

Combine squads 2 infantry squads near the astro path that has mental fortitude. Spend 1 CP to issue an additional order. Now 4 infantry squads have a chance for laurels double orders and I have 3 chances to make additional orders from the Laurels company commander.

This will yield 2 to 5 orders more than I have infantry squads. That excess goes into the mortar HWS giving them full Cadian rerolls to hit.

The infantry in my Cadian Brigade put out a lot of dakka for brigade filler units. I make up for their lack of mobility with an Elysian vanguard and rough riders in the Cadian Brigade.

Laurels on Scions has been working wonders for me. 3 units of overcharged rapid firing plasma getting extra shots on 6's, rerolling 1's to hit, and rerolling all wounds on vehicles/monsters is absolutely brutal.

So I'm a little behind the ball in that I don't have the updated codex yet, but bear with me here...

Played a casual game today at my place still using the index rules, but I elected to leave out the Commissar as a test (since in the updated codex/FAQ he's funky.)

I ran a 20 man Conscript unit with a Company Commander and Regimental Standard behind them. Turn one the Conscript unit suffered 12 casualties, then an additional 8 from Morale losses.

Granted, they did their job by absorbing an obscene amount of fire for their points, but it was still a whole unit lost.

Is it more efficient perhaps to run numerous un-modified 10 man infantry squads (less vulnerable to Morale)? Or perhaps just stick with 20 man conscript units (as a 10 man unit would have been destroyed by the same amount of fire)?

 Cothonian wrote:


I ran a 20 man Conscript unit with a Company Commander and Regimental Standard behind them. Turn one the Conscript unit suffered 12 casualties, then an additional 8 from Morale losses.

Granted, they did their job by absorbing an obscene amount of fire for their points, but it was still a whole unit lost.

Alternative ways of viewing the same situation.

24 points of models died in the morale phase.

12 regular infantry being killed is 48 points plus the heavy or special weapons. A fully decked out plasma lascannon squad is 70 points so they absorbed the dakka that would have killed 78 points of decked out infantry even after morale removed 8 conscripts. A lower priced and popular alternative squad would be 53 points for a plasma gun and mortar which would have lost 61 points of models.

Conscripts v infantry is a tough choice. The only thing I don't think works is mixing the 2 because your opponent will shoot the regular infantry 1st.

So wtf is up with so many IG kits being impossible to buy?

lahcimus wrote:
Well now that i double checked it I must have looked at Prime twice by mistake, normal one have Regiment keyworld.

You scared me. I literally just ordered a couple taurox wheel conversions from Britain.

Any thoughts on the Macharius Vulcan?

The basic Macharius and Macharius Vanquisher both look pretty pointless, particularly with the new Grinding Advance, bringing the same firepower as a Russ for...more than twice the cost.

The Macharius Vulcan however looks to be a pretty solid all-rounder. Up to 30 main gun shots, 15 if moving, at S6 AP-2 and 2 Damage. This makes it oddly multi-role, as the sheer volume of fire with 30 shots allows it to threaten things that ordinarily wouldn't much care. It's putting more average wounds (~6.66) on a typical T7/T8 3+sv tank than most dedicated tank hunter units (more than a Quadlas Pred or double firing "reroll everything" fire prism, and approaching 3x the average wounds of the Macharius Vanquisher...) while also obviously being a stellar muppet mower of infantry of any kind, particularly when coupled with a 60" range, and has an extremely consistent damage output due to the low variability of its stats.

It's not spectacularly cheap, ~370-ish points after kit, but looks to be solid for that cost given its range and flexibility (though obviously isn't matching a Shadowsword for cost effectiveness).

Thoughts?

Looking for some feedback for my mechanised Tallarn list:



Thanks in advance

 Vaktathi wrote:
Any thoughts on the Macharius Vulcan?

Trojans. Or at least the cadian doctrine.

 lash92 wrote:
Looking for some feedback for my mechanised Tallarn list:

Spoiler:

Battallion - Tallarn

#HQ
- Company Commander (warlord) - Boltpistol, Aquila
- Primaris Psyker
- Temepstor Prime - Plasma Pistol

#Troops
- Infantry Squad - Plasma, Vox, Heavy Bolter
- Infantry Squad - Plasma, Vox, Heavy Bolter
- Scions (9x) - 8x Hotshot-Lasgun, Plasma Pistol

#Elite
- Scions Command Squad - 4x Plasma

#Fast Attack
- 3 x Scout Sentinel with Autocanon

#Transport
- 2x Chimera with 2x Heavy Bolter
- Taurox Prime - Gatling + 2xHotshot-Volley Gun


Supreme Command - Tallarn

- Tank Commander - Punisher - 3x Heavy Bolter
- 2x Tank Commander - Battle Canon - Lascanon - 2x Heavy Bolter


Vanguard - Tallarn

#HQ
- Company Commander - Plasma Pistol

#Elite
- Veterans - Shotguns, 3x Melter, Heavy Flamer, Plasma Pistol
- 2x Special Weapon - 3x Plasma each
- Astropath
- Tech Priest Enginseer

#Transport
- 2x Chimera - 2x Heavy Bolter


Points: 2000
CP: 8

Notes:
- Astropath and Enginseer are supporting my Russes
- Company Commander with Plasma Pistol + Astropath are supporting the Veterans and Special Weapon Squads
- I dont know if i should swap the Plasma with Flamers?
- Sentinels for deepstrike denial + fire support
- Tempestor Prime + Scions go in Taurox Prime to unleash some FRFSRF madness
- Scion Command Squad acts as a suicide unit

Thanks in advance

Okay, here are my thoughts:

1) Am I right in thinking that the 2 Infantry Squads will be in the Chimeras? If so, I don't understand why you'd want Heavy Bolters on them. Especially in a Tallarn army. The Voxes also seem like a waste.

2) The Scions seem like an odd choice to me. The lack of Special Weapons seems like a real waste. As does putting them in a Taurox when they can Deep Strike. I can kinda see what you're going for but I think you're overestimating the power of AP-2 lasguns with an optimal range of just 9".

3) If it was me, I'd try to find the points for Lascannons on the Sentinels, rather than Autocannons.

4) Do you find Tank Commanders worth it? I ask because if you made them regular Leman Russ tanks instead, you'd be just 15pts shy of buying a 4th Leman Russ.

5) If you do want to keep them as Tank Commanders, would it be worth considering Executioners instead of the Battle Tanks? They might derive more benefit from being able to reroll 1s.

 vipoid wrote:

Okay, here are my thoughts:

1) Am I right in thinking that the 2 Infantry Squads will be in the Chimeras? If so, I don't understand why you'd want Heavy Bolters on them. Especially in a Tallarn army. The Voxes also seem like a waste.

2) The Scions seem like an odd choice to me. The lack of Special Weapons seems like a real waste. As does putting them in a Taurox when they can Deep Strike. I can kinda see what you're going for but I think you're overestimating the power of AP-2 lasguns with an optimal range of just 9".

3) If it was me, I'd try to find the points for Lascannons on the Sentinels, rather than Autocannons.

4) Do you find Tank Commanders worth it? I ask because if you made them regular Leman Russ tanks instead, you'd be just 15pts shy of buying a 4th Leman Russ.

5) If you do want to keep them as Tank Commanders, would it be worth considering Executioners instead of the Battle Tanks? They might derive more benefit from being able to reroll 1s.

First of all thanks for your feedback. To your points:

1) Yes that´s right. Heavy Bolter is just there for some extra firepower when they hop out of the transport. And I dont think I will need to advance them, because they got their transport, but maybe that´s not optimal.
Regarding the Vox: I got one Company Commander for the two Squads the Vox are just there, so they can operate more independently.

2) I dont know, its just a cheap version of dealing with MEQ. If in rapid fire range, they deal 3,5 wounds against Marines in cover + the 2 Plasma shots. Is this to bad?

3) It´s a quite expensive weapon for a Scout Sentinel imo.

4) Atm I just have 3 Russes, to no way to include a 4th for me But nevertheless I find Tank Commanders, especially Tallarn, worth it. The unique order allows you to move-shot-move or move-move-shot. And I just like the idea of my Russes "speeding" around the battlefield^^

5) Well that would be quite risky, since I want to use the Tallarn order most of the time.

 combatcotton wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Any thoughts on the Macharius Vulcan?

Trojans. Or at least the cadian doctrine.

Alas, if Trojan's weren't basically 100pts each...

I was thinking the Cadian doctrine for the Macharius tanks especially as they get double shots if they don't move, but the Valhallan doctrine is also super tempting just to know your tanks are going to function at full effectiveness until basically dead.

 schadenfreude wrote:

 Cothonian wrote:


I ran a 20 man Conscript unit with a Company Commander and Regimental Standard behind them. Turn one the Conscript unit suffered 12 casualties, then an additional 8 from Morale losses.

Granted, they did their job by absorbing an obscene amount of fire for their points, but it was still a whole unit lost.

Alternative ways of viewing the same situation.

24 points of models died in the morale phase.

12 regular infantry being killed is 48 points plus the heavy or special weapons. A fully decked out plasma lascannon squad is 70 points so they absorbed the dakka that would have killed 78 points of decked out infantry even after morale removed 8 conscripts. A lower priced and popular alternative squad would be 53 points for a plasma gun and mortar which would have lost 61 points of models.

Conscripts v infantry is a tough choice. The only thing I don't think works is mixing the 2 because your opponent will shoot the regular infantry 1st.

Never thought of putting plasma on regular infantry, always used plasma on my veterans (still stuck in 7th edition thinking hehe.) Any thoughts on using minimally upgraded/no upgrade infantry squads vs conscripts?

 lash92 wrote:

First of all thanks for your feedback. To your points:

1) Yes that´s right. Heavy Bolter is just there for some extra firepower when they hop out of the transport. And I dont think I will need to advance them, because they got their transport, but maybe that´s not optimal.
Regarding the Vox: I got one Company Commander for the two Squads the Vox are just there, so they can operate more independently.

2) I dont know, its just a cheap version of dealing with MEQ. If in rapid fire range, they deal 3,5 wounds against Marines in cover + the 2 Plasma shots. Is this to bad?

3) It´s a quite expensive weapon for a Scout Sentinel imo.

4) Atm I just have 3 Russes, to no way to include a 4th for me But nevertheless I find Tank Commanders, especially Tallarn, worth it. The unique order allows you to move-shot-move or move-move-shot. And I just like the idea of my Russes "speeding" around the battlefield^^

5) Well that would be quite risky, since I want to use the Tallarn order most of the time.

1) I get that, but the fact that you'll be hitting on 5s when you disembark (and if you move at all in subsequent turns) makes me disinclined to take them.

2) Something else to consider - if you drop one of your Company Commanders (obviously swap them around if you want a particular one to be your warlord) and both voxes, then you could afford a Platoon Commander to accompany each Infantry Squad. This would give you greater freedom still as well as greater redundancy.

3) Well, it's 5pts more than the Autocannon. However, IMO, it's a much better weapon. Moreover, you already have plenty of Heavy Bolters (which are quite comparable to Autocannons), but just a couple of Lascannons.

4) Fair enough.

5) One final consideration - if you're using the Tallarn order for speed, would a Demolisher or two be more useful, since the shorter range is likely to matter a lot less?

 vipoid wrote:

1) I get that, but the fact that you'll be hitting on 5s when you disembark (and if you move at all in subsequent turns) makes me disinclined to take them.

2) Something else to consider - if you drop one of your Company Commanders (obviously swap them around if you want a particular one to be your warlord) and both voxes, then you could afford a Platoon Commander to accompany each Infantry Squad. This would give you greater freedom still as well as greater redundancy.

3) Well, it's 5pts more than the Autocannon. However, IMO, it's a much better weapon. Moreover, you already have plenty of Heavy Bolters (which are quite comparable to Autocannons), but just a couple of Lascannons.

4) Fair enough.

5) One final consideration - if you're using the Tallarn order for speed, would a Demolisher or two be more useful, since the shorter range is likely to matter a lot less?

1) Good point with the Bolters, I dropped them.

2) I just like the Voxes fluff wise and since this list doesnt have to be mega competitive I think I can bring up the 10 points for them.

3) Good point, I will add them. Or maybe Missle Launchers or are they pure crap?

5) I´m just a not a big fan of the Demolisher Canon. Also you can use the order defensivlely, e.g. move your 5" around a corner, shoot your Battle Canon twice and then go back behind the corner out of line of sight. Therefor the range of the battle canon can be quite valuable.


So I wrote a new list with a few adjustments:
- Dropped the Taurox Prime, a Chimera and the Heavy Weapons
- Added a normal Taurox (will be used by the Chimera - Infantry Squad) and a Hellhound
- Swapped the Scions Command Squad to Hotshot-Volley Guns
- Added pintle-mounted weapons to my transports
- Dropped the Heavy Flamer on the Vets, since it´s is a heavy weapon, so no advancing an shooting with it

So my new list:

I think that looks a lot better.

Regarding Lascannons vs. Missile Launchers, I think Lascannons are a better choice.

Their extra strength and AP is a great help against a lot of vehicles and such. Missile Launchers trade that for a secondary attack which rarely ever seems use.

I guess if you fight mostly horde/infantry armies then the missile launcher could be worth considering, but mostly I find we have enough anti-infantry firepower that we can comfortably take more dedicated anti-tank wepons.

So question. What’s the best way to load up taurox primes and what is best fill them with?

gendoikari87 wrote:
So question. What’s the best way to load up taurox primes and what is best fill them with?

My "go-to" is Taurox Gatling Cannon, Hot-Shot Volley Guns, and a Storm Bolter gives you a 97 point vehicle that spits 30 S4 shots. Battle Cannon and Autocannons is decent long-range firepower but clocks in at 123 points. The Missile Launcher adds another 22 on top of that, and at that point you may as well just take a Manticore.

As for riding inside, nothing. Only Scions can ride, and unless you are desperate to reduce your deployment count, there's very little reason for them not to deep strike. Inquisitors, Acolytes, and Jokaero can ride too, but they'll need their own Detatchment if you don't want to lose your regiment bonuses.

Thoughts on a Tempestus Prime with command stick and the laurels inside a chimera, and using the strategem to send out orders (I'm running a Scion army)? Pros include the increased safety of a key character, more mobility (to get in range of units that would benefit most from the order stacking), and the strategem removes the need to keep a vox around. Cons include locking the orders behind 1CP, and if the chimera gets wrecked it leaves a key character stranded.

I don't like it honestly. Maybe with a company commander, but the biggest selling point of tempestus is that you can just put them where you need them.

For the price of a chimera, take another Prime and keep him in reserves until you need one somewhere.

strepp wrote:
Thoughts on a Tempestus Prime with command stick and the laurels inside a chimera, and using the strategem to send out orders (I'm running a Scion army)? Pros include the increased safety of a key character, more mobility (to get in range of units that would benefit most from the order stacking), and the strategem removes the need to keep a vox around. Cons include locking the orders behind 1CP, and if the chimera gets wrecked it leaves a key character stranded.

To me this just seems like a real waste of CPs.

How do people value CPs vs Regimental Doctrines?

I have a Brigade currently that is mostly Scions but with vehicles in FA and HS. I can keep it together and give the Vehicles a good Regiment (thinking Catachan or Valhalla), but then the Scions and Tauroxes get nothing.

I could split them into 1/2 Battalion(s) and a Spearhead, but then I'm giving up CPs that could be quite useful.

How do you guys value the Tempestus Doctrine? It feels really unreliable to me, but occasional extra Plasma shots or Taurox shooting could be quite useful as well.

I use Scions mostly as OBJ grabbers or psychological warfare and only occasionally to actually kill high priority targets. I just stick them in a patrol or maybe their own BN. My goal for CPs is 9. I rarely require more than that, especially with warlord trait and relic.