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All I have is the physical codex but it's pretty clear advisors and Auxilla states that

The units listed below can be included in an Astra Militarum detachment without preventing other units from gaining a Regimental Doctrine.

<Stormtroopers> is a Regimental Doctrine. Therefore, it is not affected by taking Advisors and Auxilla. This matches up a bit with RAI as well because in their "codex" they got for 7th they had units like Commissars and Valkyries, things the Advisors and Auxilla rule specifically states as being kosher.

On the other hand, these units would not technically have the Militarum Tempestus keyword, so I see where you're coming from. I think for casual play and the like it's fine but if you were going to a tournament it may be worth double checking just to make sure the event is ok with it, just so you don't get disqualified in the top 16 or something because of a really odd technicality. I honestly am not sure which takes precedence, it does seem like a major kick in the nads to the crazy few who built full armies when that codex dropped including Commissars and Valkyries only to be told they lose their regiment trait if they take them, especially considering the Stormtroopers start collecting box still comes with a commissar.

It's not covered in the FAQ, I just double-checked. Might be worth emailing in although I'm fairly sure GW has the FAQ mostly finished at this point.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
All I have is the physical codex but it's pretty clear advisors and Auxilla states that

The units listed below can be included in an Astra Militarum detachment without preventing other units from gaining a Regimental Doctrine.

<Stormtroopers> is a Regimental Doctrine. Therefore, it is not affected by taking Advisors and Auxilla. This matches up a bit with RAI as well because in their "codex" they got for 7th they had units like Commissars and Valkyries, things the Advisors and Auxilla rule specifically states as being kosher.

On the other hand, these units would not technically have the Militarum Tempestus keyword, so I see where you're coming from. I think for casual play and the like it's fine but if you were going to a tournament it may be worth double checking just to make sure the event is ok with it, just so you don't get disqualified in the top 16 or something because of a really odd technicality. I honestly am not sure which takes precedence, it does seem like a major kick in the nads to the crazy few who built full armies when that codex dropped including Commissars and Valkyries only to be told they lose their regiment trait if they take them, especially considering the Stormtroopers start collecting box still comes with a commissar.

It's not covered in the FAQ, I just double-checked. Might be worth emailing in although I'm fairly sure GW has the FAQ mostly finished at this point.

Yeah that's what I meant Scions part didn't mention it. You can make that leap from next paragraph(ie about advisors etc). I was kinda worried somebody might argue that the part about scions above no regimental trait.

Well guess I'll double check on tournaments. Though I bought myself 5th scion kit to ensure I have 2 HQ's so I can field scion battallion(2 HQ, 2 command squad, 3 regular squads plus maybe taurox primes) without primaris psyker for 2nd HQ.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
The real question is why would you, since deepstriking is like a transport with almost 0 downsides and almost guaranteed delivery, considering anything you can't deepstriking to hit probably wouldn't be able to be reached by mechanized infantry anyways.

Well there are two reasons for that:
1. I have so many deepstriking troops on my list that some need to be set up on the field.
2.Since to keep up with my army theme I want to keep my AM detachment scions only, I was considering selling my Chimera if there is no way I can really use it with them

Greetings fellow guardsmen,

As I understand the Tempestus is a regiment. The scions are just “named units” which are bound to Tempestus. Like Harker is set to be CATACHAN. Therefore if you play your regiment Tempestus I think it should be completely fine to set the regiment of the chimera or taurox to Tempestus.
Just like I’m doing when playing CATACHAN. The only exception is that if you play another regiment with a unit of Tempestus you’re not loosing the doctrine of your other regiment. But you don’t get the doctrine of Tempestus on top.
Or am I missing something?

See you.
Thoni

Yep, you are. The FAQ specifically forbids giving custom regiments the same tag as existing ones to avoid that being a possibility (as well as stuff like ordering Ogryns with an Auxilla Officer)

 Tyr13 wrote:
Yep, you are. The FAQ specifically forbids giving custom regiments the same tag as existing ones to avoid that being a possibility (as well as stuff like ordering Ogryns with an Auxilla Officer)

Yes I know. But for example an chimera has the tag “regiment” which I am replacing by “CATACHAN”. CATACHAN is an existing regiment. So I could also label it as “Tempestus”. Or is there something else? I understand that a scion is always Tempestus and Harker is always CATACHAN. But a generic vehicle could be labelled as seems fit. Or is there no Tempestus flavour of vendettas, chimeras and all the cool stuff?

Thoni wrote:

 Tyr13 wrote:
Yep, you are. The FAQ specifically forbids giving custom regiments the same tag as existing ones to avoid that being a possibility (as well as stuff like ordering Ogryns with an Auxilla Officer)

Yes I know. But for example an chimera has the tag “regiment” which I am replacing by “CATACHAN”. CATACHAN is an existing regiment. So I could also label it as “Tempestus”. Or is there something else? I understand that a scion is always Tempestus and Harker is always CATACHAN. But a generic vehicle could be labelled as seems fit. Or is there no Tempestus flavour of vendettas, chimeras and all the cool stuff?

That was exactly what the FAQ was addressing. You want Miliatrum Tempestus, you need to use a mix of Militarum Tempestus and Miliatrum Auxilleria. Use a Chimera and you lose the regimental benefit. This was to address people trying to insert conscripts and chimeras into MT formations in order to gain the regimental benefits with them.

I mean, if you get explodeing sixes, why would you ever take scions versus conscripts or standard infantry? More shots, more benefit.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
I mean, if you get explodeing sixes, why would you ever take scions versus conscripts or standard infantry?

If you want conscripts with exploding 6s you can take them. Make a custom regiment with the "storm troopers" doctrine. You won't get the MT relics or stratagems or any (hypothetical) special characters, but you do get your exploding 6s.

I've always wanted to try a "Stormtroopers" regiment for gaks and giggles but it just seems very lackluster compared to all the other good regiment traits we have. The one nice thing it has I guess is the fact that it works for everything, from a laspistol to a volcano cannon.

I thought we couldn't give "Stormtroopers" to generic IG units though? Seems like that's not intended in the least even though certain units like chimeras should definitely have the option.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I've always wanted to try a "Stormtroopers" regiment for gaks and giggles but it just seems very lackluster compared to all the other good regiment traits we have. The one nice thing it has I guess is the fact that it works for everything, from a laspistol to a volcano cannon.

I thought we couldn't give "Stormtroopers" to generic IG units though? Seems like that's not intended in the least even though certain units like chimeras should definitely have the option.

You can't give Militarum Tempestus to ordinary units. You can give a custom regiment with the Stormtroopers doctrine, though.

 JNAProductions wrote:
You can't give Militarum Tempestus to ordinary units. You can give a custom regiment with the Stormtroopers doctrine, though.

Exactly. When you make a custom regiment, which can be applied to any unit with the <REGIMENT> keyword, you can choose any doctrine you want to represent it. "Storm troopers" is a doctrine, separate from Militarius Trademarkus and the restrictions that apply to the MT keyword. Your custom regiment will have all units with the <REGIMENT> keyword generate extra hits on 6s, but will not have MT relics/stratagems/characters, will not count as MT for purposes of the "MT units don't invalidate having a pure regiment list" rule, etc.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I've always wanted to try a "Stormtroopers" regiment for gaks and giggles but it just seems very lackluster compared to all the other good regiment traits we have. The one nice thing it has I guess is the fact that it works for everything, from a laspistol to a volcano cannon.

I thought we couldn't give "Stormtroopers" to generic IG units though? Seems like that's not intended in the least even though certain units like chimeras should definitely have the option.

In addition to already given answers one difference is that while your infantry squad of "my awesome regiment" has the stormtrooper doctrine thus getting extra hits they don't for example count as Militarum Tempes....whatever spelling...for say tauros prime transport. You need to carry that squad around in regular tauros or chimera.

Same as I can make my regiment "Guardian of Neverland" that uses cadian doctrine. However it wouldn't be cadian and thus no Pask(albeit this would be stupid thus) or make marine chapter "Knights of Ultima" that uses ultramarine doctrine but wouldn't benefit from full Guilliman bonus(albeit why I would do that rather than use simply ultramarine keyword is another thing...)

I've got my first tournament in a month and I was wondering if this was an alright list to take?

Cadia brigade=1520
HQ
2xCompany commanders=60
Company commanders=31 (Bolt Pistol)
Troop
6xInfantry squad=360 (LasCannon)
Elite
2xAstropath=60
Tech priest=42
Fast attack
3xScout sentinals=141 (Auto Cannon)
Heavy support
3xLeman russ=540 (Executioner Plasma Cannon, Plasma Cannon Sponsons, Heavy Bolter)
2xManticore=286

Cadian battalion=210
HQ
2xCompany commander=60
Troop
Infantry squad=60 (LasCannon)
2xInfantry squad=90 (Mortar)

Custodian Auxiliary support
Vertus Praetors=270

I'll have 14 CP but I have been considering dropping the Vertus Praetors, sentinal auto cannons and the plasma sponsons for more bare bones russes in a spearhead.
Any thoughts and criticisms are more than welcome.

I have bunch of blood angels and dark angels. Thought maybe they could be of use as IG allies. I have more of blood angels though they are mostly various tactical/devastator/non-jump pack assault marines. Dark angels have some terminators and bikes. This unless I bring my 30k colour schemed blood angels along(they have cataphractii/tartaros terminators and vehicles as well).

Anything of particular use either of those would bring to IG?

 Peregrine wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:
I mean, if you get explodeing sixes, why would you ever take scions versus conscripts or standard infantry?

If you want conscripts with exploding 6s you can take them. Make a custom regiment with the "storm troopers" doctrine. You won't get the MT relics or stratagems or any (hypothetical) special characters, but you do get your exploding 6s.

Oh yes thanks. That makes sense and after reading the codex a 100th time I found the text you mentioned. My fault.

How would you guys build a list going up against Raven Guard Space Marines with lots of lascannons and assault cannons? I have a friend who plays Guard and he gets beat every time, the -1 hit together with the re-rolls to hit just out shoot the guard.

Kuklops wrote:
How would you guys build a list going up against Raven Guard Space Marines with lots of lascannons and assault cannons? I have a friend who plays Guard and he gets beat every time, the -1 hit together with the re-rolls to hit just out shoot the guard.

Get within 12 inches of him?

The -1 to hit is at 12 inches or further. It's not a permanent fixture.
Also, bring a couple of Psykers and fish for Nightshroud so you can give your more critical units the same -1 to hit.

The answer for Raven Guard is going to lie a little in regiment, playstyle and what platforms the heavy weapons are on. As some general advice:

If straight gunline go Cadian and use rerolls and Overlapping to eat an important unit each turn.

Use Rough Riders to charge the gunline and deny then shooting.

Tallarn Hellhounds can get close to autohit infantry and play bumper cars with vehicles. You can add in some infantry as well to charge things. Can the Raven Guard really kill 3 Hellhounds and a pile of conscripts without giving the rest of your army free reign?

Scout sentinels can get very close turn one forcing him to shoot them or be assaulted. If you get first turn or they are ignored you can get a charge or two off as well.

If the Guard are ok with souping you have options like Space Marine Scouts, jetbike Captain and Celestine that can get into combat quickly.

Assault cannons are relatively short ranged, use deployment zones that force him to move to get to you when possible.

Kuklops wrote:
How would you guys build a list going up against Raven Guard Space Marines with lots of lascannons and assault cannons? I have a friend who plays Guard and he gets beat every time, the -1 hit together with the re-rolls to hit just out shoot the guard.

Deepstrike scions. Repeat.

Is mass Scion still a viable list? I know they took a hit with the FAQ and the meta seems to have trended towards blobs and Character spam, but I have like 40-50 Scions and wonder if they still even work.

I think smarter players have just learned how easy it is to create a 9" screen around their important units (or their entire backfield if needed). Usually a few squads are good as they can fill in small gaps and get some good damage off, but if you take them in large numbers, the opponent will take note and do his best to limit drop sites.

Requizen wrote:
Is mass Scion still a viable list? I know they took a hit with the FAQ and the meta seems to have trended towards blobs and Character spam, but I have like 40-50 Scions and wonder if they still even work.

They are a perfect support for your main force, whatever it will be, just don't expect them to live long. I have a full battalion of Tempestus and they usually do their work, that is to drop in the rapid range of their plasma weapons and wipe out some tough unit. They usually die immediately afterwards, so you should spend them for killing something really valuable.

Gorath12 wrote:
I've got my first tournament in a month and I was wondering if this was an alright list to take?

Cadia brigade=1520
HQ
2xCompany commanders=60
Company commanders=31 (Bolt Pistol)
Troop
6xInfantry squad=360 (LasCannon)
Elite
2xAstropath=60
Tech priest=42
Fast attack
3xScout sentinals=141 (Auto Cannon)
Heavy support
3xLeman russ=540 (Executioner Plasma Cannon, Plasma Cannon Sponsons, Heavy Bolter)
2xManticore=286

Cadian battalion=210
HQ
2xCompany commander=60
Troop
Infantry squad=60 (LasCannon)
2xInfantry squad=90 (Mortar)

Custodian Auxiliary support
Vertus Praetors=270

I'll have 14 CP but I have been considering dropping the Vertus Praetors, sentinal auto cannons and the plasma sponsons for more bare bones russes in a spearhead.
Any thoughts and criticisms are more than welcome.

On the whole, you have pretty good units, I like the heavy support and custodes particularly. however, your ratios are a bit off, IMO. For starters, you have 5 CCs with only nine infantry squads, meaning you're overstaffed on orders turn one, even before your squads get mulched (and they will). I know you're paying some HQ taxes there, but don't count out the Primaris for smite. Second, I'm confused why all of your infantry squads have heavy weapons, unless you are trying to avoid Reaper in ITC. It's been my experience that you will lose your front 2-3 squads by turn 2. I run mine with just plasma gun.

I'm not sure what models you have, but you're also leaving one of the best cadian units on the table by not spamming mortar heavy weapon squads. A formation that I really like with cadians is a brigade plus a spearhead. If you turn that battalion into a spearhead, you can turn the infantry squads into mortar heavy weapon squads, or the more versatile mortar/mortar/lascannon heavy weapon squad.

It's probably not worth rebuilding models, but bolters are way better than bolt pistols for your officers.

Playing around in Battlescribe, here's what I came up with:

Cadia brigade=
HQ
3x CC w/ bolter
Troop
4x Infantry with plasma
2x Infantry with las/plas

Elite
2xAstropath=60
Tech priest=42
Fast attack
3xScout sentinals=141 (Auto Cannon)
Heavy support
3xLeman russ=540 (Executioner Plasma Cannon, Plasma Cannon Sponsons, Heavy Bolter)
2xManticore=286

Cadian Spearhead
HQ
Primaris
Heavy
5x heavy weapon squads with mortar, Mortar, Lascannon

Custodian Auxiliary support
Vertus Praetors=270

Currently having 8 infantry squads with 5 autocannons and 3 lascannons among them plus 3 missile launchers. Getting another box of heavy weapons which I'll be turning into 3 mortars and then 3 something else. But what? Enough autocannons especially since 8th ed made the choice into less than good choice. More lascannons or heavy bolters? Lascannons bit pricey and I already have 3. Do I use 6 often...Heavy bolters I don't yet have which is plus.

tneva82 wrote:
More lascannons or heavy bolters? Lascannons bit pricey and I already have 3. Do I use 6 often...Heavy bolters I don't yet have which is plus.

I would choose only between HBs and Mortars. LCs are too expensive to be used on such fragile and low-morale platform as IG infantry, especially considering their crappy BS... HBs are more reliable and have a better chances to kill, while mortars can fire indirectly being deployed behind a LOS-blocking terrain or aiming at some invisible enemy. I like to mix them in infantry squads while going mortars-only in HWSs.

By the way you can assemble both HBs and mortars from HWS box because they use different stands. Just buy some 3-rd party bases and magnetise one of the infantrymen (spotter) and you will get 6 HWTs for the price of 3.

I really like lascannon but I run regiments with high morale. So I usually have a few guys stick around and always get one last shot.

I'm in a losing streak...and I'm very sad about this...I enjoy my army but it's pretty frustated lost every game
my list is:

SUPREME COMMAND DETACHMENT (CADIAN) +1CP
TANK COMMANDER PASK 221 Punisher Gatling Cannon 20 - 3x Heavy Bolter 24 (HQ)
TANK COMMANDER 209 Battle Cannon 22 - Lascannon 20 (HQ)
TANK COMMANDER 209 Battle Cannon 22 - Lascannon 20 (HQ)
SHADOWSWORD 544 Volcano Cannon - Adamantium Tracks - Heavy Stubber 4
4x Lascannon 80 - 5x Twin Heavy Bolter 70 (LORD OF WAR)

BRIGADE DETACHMENT (CADIAN) +9 CP
COMPANY COMMANDER 30 Grand Strategist - Kurov’s Aquila (HQ general)
TANK COMMANDER 209 Battle Cannon 22 - Lascannon 20 (HQ)
TECH-PRIEST ENGINSEER 42 Servo-Arm (ELITE)
ASTROPATH 30 Smite - Psychic Barrier (ELITE)
ASTROPATH 30 Smite - Nightshroud (ELITE)
10x INFANTRY SQUAD 40 (TROOP)
10x INFANTRY SQUAD 40 (TROOP)
10x INFANTRY SQUAD 40 (TROOP)
10x INFANTRY SQUAD 40 (TROOP)
10x INFANTRY SQUAD 40 (TROOP)
10x INFANTRY SQUAD 40 (TROOP)
1x SCOUT SENTINEL 45 Multilaser 10 (FAST ATTACK)
1x SCOUT SENTINEL 45 Multilaser 10 (FAST ATTACK)
1x SCOUT SENTINEL 45 Multilaser 10 (FAST ATTACK)
3x HEAVY WEAPON SQUAD 33 3x Mortar 15 (HEAVY SUPPORT)
3x HEAVY WEAPON SQUAD 33 3x Mortar 15 (HEAVY SUPPORT)
3x HEAVY WEAPON SQUAD 33 3x Mortar 15 (HEAVY SUPPORT)

TOT: 1998 CP: 13

I'm confident about shadowsword and leman russ...but I can t grab objective (before I played scions full plasma but I decided to drop them because they are kill point and don't get objective)...I'm thinking about a big unit of Bullgryns to get objectives and try counter assault something (eventually dropping 1 leman russ and the techpriest)...any advice is appreciated!

Polonius

On the whole, you have pretty good units, I like the heavy support and custodes particularly. however, your ratios are a bit off, IMO. For starters, you have 5 CCs with only nine infantry squads, meaning you're overstaffed on orders turn one, even before your squads get mulched (and they will). I know you're paying some HQ taxes there, but don't count out the Primaris for smite. Second, I'm confused why all of your infantry squads have heavy weapons, unless you are trying to avoid Reaper in ITC. It's been my experience that you will lose your front 2-3 squads by turn 2. I run mine with just plasma gun.

I'm not sure what models you have, but you're also leaving one of the best cadian units on the table by not spamming mortar heavy weapon squads. A formation that I really like with cadians is a brigade plus a spearhead. If you turn that battalion into a spearhead, you can turn the infantry squads into mortar heavy weapon squads, or the more versatile mortar/mortar/lascannon heavy weapon squad.

I can see your point with the Primaris which I can certainly do and yes your correct I'm trying to avoid Reaper and the idea was that even if they focused all their fire on my tanks I would still have some AT in more durable units than heavy weapons, I tend to find they get wiped off the field first turn but your suggestion of double mortars and lascannon might lower the amount of fire they suffer. Another point was I'm trying to keep my army size from being too large since the tournament is only 9-5 for 3 games including briefing and lunch. Wouldn't I be better off putting 3 HWT in the brigade and putting my Leman russes in the spearhead so they gain Obsec?

Also has anybody used Vertus Praetors before? Any tips on how they should be used and how well they synergies with gun-line guard? My plan was to use them to capture distant objectives as well as counter charge/backfield harassers if I get the chance.

cpcmrc wrote:
I'm in a losing streak...and I'm very sad about this...I enjoy my army but it's pretty frustated lost every game
my list is:

SUPREME COMMAND DETACHMENT (CADIAN) +1CP
TANK COMMANDER PASK 221 Punisher Gatling Cannon 20 - 3x Heavy Bolter 24 (HQ)
TANK COMMANDER 209 Battle Cannon 22 - Lascannon 20 (HQ)
TANK COMMANDER 209 Battle Cannon 22 - Lascannon 20 (HQ)
SHADOWSWORD 544 Volcano Cannon - Adamantium Tracks - Heavy Stubber 4
4x Lascannon 80 - 5x Twin Heavy Bolter 70 (LORD OF WAR)

BRIGADE DETACHMENT (CADIAN) +9 CP
COMPANY COMMANDER 30 Grand Strategist - Kurov’s Aquila (HQ general)
TANK COMMANDER 209 Battle Cannon 22 - Lascannon 20 (HQ)
TECH-PRIEST ENGINSEER 42 Servo-Arm (ELITE)
ASTROPATH 30 Smite - Psychic Barrier (ELITE)
ASTROPATH 30 Smite - Nightshroud (ELITE)
10x INFANTRY SQUAD 40 (TROOP)
10x INFANTRY SQUAD 40 (TROOP)
10x INFANTRY SQUAD 40 (TROOP)
10x INFANTRY SQUAD 40 (TROOP)
10x INFANTRY SQUAD 40 (TROOP)
10x INFANTRY SQUAD 40 (TROOP)
1x SCOUT SENTINEL 45 Multilaser 10 (FAST ATTACK)
1x SCOUT SENTINEL 45 Multilaser 10 (FAST ATTACK)
1x SCOUT SENTINEL 45 Multilaser 10 (FAST ATTACK)
3x HEAVY WEAPON SQUAD 33 3x Mortar 15 (HEAVY SUPPORT)
3x HEAVY WEAPON SQUAD 33 3x Mortar 15 (HEAVY SUPPORT)
3x HEAVY WEAPON SQUAD 33 3x Mortar 15 (HEAVY SUPPORT)

TOT: 1998 CP: 13

I'm confident about shadowsword and leman russ...but I can t grab objective (before I played scions full plasma but I decided to drop them because they are kill point and don't get objective)...I'm thinking about a big unit of Bullgryns to get objectives and try counter assault something (eventually dropping 1 leman russ and the techpriest)...any advice is appreciated!

Hi fellow guardsmen,

I know how you feel. The Scions are definetly a haevy punsh for every guard army. I’ve not got an answer but I’ll try to tell you how I run my list of catachan.

Basically I think there is no point in the tank commander heavy lists. For me the hull lascannons don’t do neither. I usually pair a tank commander with a normal buddy tank with no sponsons to save the points. So they could crawl up the field and use their grinding advance. Just on an executioner I go full plasma, so it will be the fire magnet for the first turns. He is backed up with strike an shroud as well as a Psykers.

In the front I usually pair scout sentinels with flamers to get board control bevor the first round and to gram midfield objektives at the start. They are backuped by hellhound. So my opponen need to clear the objectives of the sentinels and my hellhounds can park on them afterward.
Behind this pairs come my already mentioned battle tanks. Tend to take two to three of each pair of these.

My Infanterie is coming behind and at the flanks. I use to put the mortars in there instead of a heavy weapon team. They grab objectives in late game where my tank has speeded ahead and secure the flanks. For every two squads I put behind one officer.

For backfield I use artillery. Manticore and basilisk as well as hydra. They are the needed firepower and heavy hitters. They shine every game.
The key are also some aura Charakters as the ordinance officer as well as sgt harker. I think this is the role you assigned your Shadowsword. But if the opponent have no super heavy I think the artillery parking lot does the job a lot better.

Some gimmicks like cyclops demo vehicles, Sentry guns, quad guns or an vendetta with dropping command squads I put eventually in are nice but they are not gamechanging in my opinion.

Hope you could use some of the ideas I described.

Thoni.

metageme in my shop is reach of vehicles and fatty pieces so shadowsword is insane also vs infantry with 30 heavy bolter shots
i use cadian regiment couse there is a lot of chaos and i can get the relic
tank commander can stay still and use order for rerolling d6 on turret (maybe lascannon can be dropped for saving points)
infantries and sentinels die in the first or at second turn so I can t grab objectives
I don't like artillery so much