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So now Rubric Marines can run, overwatch, hurt vehicles and they lost Warpflame on their flamers.

Also their Aspiring Sorcerer isn't fighting for warp charges against the rest of the force.

More excited for the Terminators since they can split fire and it looks like they wound Dreadnoughts on a 5+ now with AP -3 in combat.

Are saving throws meant to be only armor saves?
Cause otherwise you would get +1 to the inv save as well.

Furthermore with those AP values included now, it could be that inv saves will work differently maybe like FNP now.
Since you would get a 5+ save in a lot of intances anyway.
Of course it could still just be for all Ap -3+ weapons which do more than 1 dmg

I'm pretty positive that the +1 to saving throws applied to Invulnerable saves, considering they are saving throws
I also think that Invulnerable saves are just a value that AP cannot modify below, and that is why Mortal wounds can just punch through even those.

Remember too that higher Str weapons now need to be twice the T to wound on 2+. So str6/7 weapons now wound Rubric only on 3+. Combine with their bolters equally wounding T6/7 on 5+ and anything T8+ on a 6, Rubrics are looking pretty good as all-round choices in 8th

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Man it's so easy to lose track of stuff with all these partial releases. I'd forgotten the S v T implications when i read the Ts profile, while I've been calacuting and simulating odds in excell on just that.

Has anyone noticed if you stick a rubricae in cover it will have +1 save from dust and +1 from cover meaning you cannot get a 1 against dmg 1 weapons and therefore unkillable against for example a bolt gun ?! Am I reading this right?

 Traditio wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 Traditio wrote:
Did anybody notice that the war scroll didn't have an option to take a rhino as a dedicated transport?

Would it need to? Dedicated transports are their own unit type now and the detachments we've seen so far allow you to take one dedicated transport for each other unit you take. Seems like it wouldn't need to go on the sheet if this is the case. In fact, this seems to be a slight confirmation that dedicated transports may no longer be assigned to specific units anymore. But we can't read in to it too much yet.

Here's the reason why this is interesting:

Landraiders.

Honestly having access to Land Raiders for even grunts was one of my proposed fixes for Chaos Marines and if that's a thing I'm giddy.

kelewan wrote:
Has anyone noticed if you stick a rubricae in cover it will have +1 save from dust and +1 from cover meaning you cannot get a 1 against dmg 1 weapons and therefore unkillable against for example a bolt gun ?! Am I reading this right?

I suspect rolls of '1' will still be failure even if you save somehow gets to 1+

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 Shadow Walker wrote:
It is the first thing I do not like from all shown so far. In AoS you can buy a box and play because unit's warscroll has all info you need. Here we are told that some datasheets will not have stats for all weapons or rules. So basically you still need a codex even if you do not play with points.

You're going to have a book of Datasheets, otherwise you literally will not be able to play the game. They've already said that - UNLIKE Age of Sigmar - the army lists and unit rules will be released in books to be purchased, not as free downloads. Everything you need will be in that book (unless you're allying Eldar and Space Marines, I suppose, then you'll need two books). So, even if the text of the Death To the False Emperor rule aren't on that Datasheet, they'll be in the same book (and Battle Focus will be in the same book as all the Eldar datasheets, and And They Shall Know No Fear will be in the Space Marines book, etc). Presumably those books will have a comprehensive weapons summary chart at the back too.

Thousand Sons did not have Grenades in 6th/7th...shows how many people actually used them.

 Galef wrote:

kelewan wrote:
Has anyone noticed if you stick a rubricae in cover it will have +1 save from dust and +1 from cover meaning you cannot get a 1 against dmg 1 weapons and therefore unkillable against for example a bolt gun ?! Am I reading this right?

I suspect rolls of '1' will still be failure even if you save somehow gets to 1+

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I dunno if I'm just reading it wrong I'm reading it as you add 1 to your save by adding 1 to your dice roll making it impossible to roll a 1

A roll of 1 is always a failure, it doesn't matter what modifiers there are. Any modifier that would take it to a 1+ save or below would just make it a 2+ save or a 2+ with some kind of re-rollable.

watnheld wrote:
Furthermore with those AP values included now, it could be that inv saves will work differently maybe like FNP now.
Since you would get a 5+ save in a lot of intances anyway.

I'm thinking it's just like a cap on how low the save can get, and it can't get any lower. Or you may be right and an inv is just like FNP, we'll have to wait and see.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Thousand Sons did not have Grenades in 6th/7th...shows how many people actually used them.

Actually, the Aspiring Sorc had grenades, but I strongly suspect that many people gave him an Axe since he at least had some hope at surviving until I1 to use it and as such, him having grenades never mattered much. But no, the RUbricae never had access to grenades (which made total sense).

One of the things that is of great interest to me is the lack of fearless and the huge nerf to Ld. Rubricae and the Asp Sorc both used to be Ld 10 and were fearless to boot. Now they're Ld 7/8? Harsh.

 Drasius wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Thousand Sons did not have Grenades in 6th/7th...shows how many people actually used them.

Actually, the Aspiring Sorc had grenades, but I strongly suspect that many people gave him an Axe since he at least had some hope at surviving until I1 to use it and as such, him having grenades never mattered much. But no, the RUbricae never had access to grenades (which made total sense).

One of the things that is of great interest to me is the lack of fearless and the huge nerf to Ld. Rubricae and the Asp Sorc both used to be Ld 10 and were fearless to boot. Now they're Ld 7/8? Harsh.

the Space marine profile suggested they're reducing leadership scores across the board too. the real intreasting question is gonna be where the guard are at leadership wise. that'll give us the "range"

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A roll of 1 is always a failure, it doesn't matter what modifiers there are. Any modifier that would take it to a 1+ save or below would just make it a 2+ save or a 2+ with some kind of re-rollable.

Well we HOPE so and it's pretty likely but have we seen confirmation? AOS outside matched play or house rule 1 is not automatic failure so it's not like that's some universal GW truth that's absolutely quaranteed.

Guard might be 5 or 6, but commissars in 12" might kill a d3 to make them auto pass if they fail. Same with orcs and nobs.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Ah the link is working for me now. Not sure why it was derping haha.

I really like the layout, very similar to AoS actually. Melee weapons look pretty awesome

Just for the record, they accidentally released the rules early and then pulled the page again - twice.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Drasius wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Thousand Sons did not have Grenades in 6th/7th...shows how many people actually used them.

Actually, the Aspiring Sorc had grenades, but I strongly suspect that many people gave him an Axe since he at least had some hope at surviving until I1 to use it and as such, him having grenades never mattered much. But no, the RUbricae never had access to grenades (which made total sense).

One of the things that is of great interest to me is the lack of fearless and the huge nerf to Ld. Rubricae and the Asp Sorc both used to be Ld 10 and were fearless to boot. Now they're Ld 7/8? Harsh.

the Space marine profile suggested they're reducing leadership scores across the board too. the real intreasting question is gonna be where the guard are at leadership wise. that'll give us the "range"

True, but marines going from 8 -- > 7 and maybe losing ATSKNF (HA!) is nowhere near as big of a thing as Rubricae going from 10 --> 7 and for sure losing fearless.

 Drasius wrote:
True, but marines going from 8 -- > 7 and maybe losing ATSKNF (HA!) is nowhere near as big of a thing as Rubricae going from 10 --> 7 and for sure losing fearless.

The thing to remember is that the switch from Morale to Battleshock means a big change in how leadership works and also a change in what those values represent. Units never "break" per se any more so losing Fearless is not such a big deal. You will need to lose 2 models from a squad of Rubricae before they even risk losing models to Battleshock (and they look pretty tough).

If you look at AoS, high Bravery is reserved for things like Undead who really are Fearless. My guess is that Necrons and Wraithguard/lords/knights will have 10 in 8th edition.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Drasius wrote:
True, but marines going from 8 -- > 7 and maybe losing ATSKNF (HA!) is nowhere near as big of a thing as Rubricae going from 10 --> 7 and for sure losing fearless.

The thing to remember is that the switch from Morale to Battleshock means a big change in how leadership works and also a change in what those values represent. Units never "break" per se any more so losing Fearless is not such a big deal. You will need to lose 2 models from a squad of Rubricae before they even risk losing models to Battleshock (and they look pretty tough).

If you look at AoS, high Bravery is reserved for things like Undead who really are Fearless. My guess is that Necrons and Wraithguard/lords/knights will have 10 in 8th edition.

And Daemons, both Lizardmen and Chaos ones.

I wonder what the new rules for promethian relay pipes will be. If they still increase the range of flame weaponry by 12", well...

my only hope is that we don't see the AOS "Rule of 1" for wizards, where they can only cast one of the same named power each turn. If Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcs don't even have a single unique spell, I feel like a lot of psykers like Inquisitors, Wyrdvanes, etc are going to be throwing around a LOT of smites. And if everyone's got it, the second you run a regular sorc in your tsons list, there'd be no reason to use any of your sarge sorcs for anything if you can only cast 1 smite a turn..might as well cast the best smite you have.

Here's to hoping "quick and easy mechanism for balancing less competitive games" means they're going to have a real points system for those of us who get annoyed by the batch costing/free upgrades gibberish.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
my only hope is that we don't see the AOS "Rule of 1" for wizards, where they can only cast one of the same named power each turn. If Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcs don't even have a single unique spell, I feel like a lot of psykers like Inquisitors, Wyrdvanes, etc are going to be throwing around a LOT of smites. And if everyone's got it, the second you run a regular sorc in your tsons list, there'd be no reason to use any of your sarge sorcs for anything if you can only cast 1 smite a turn..might as well cast the best smite you have.

(The 'rule of 1' thing has me wondering if I'm going to need to restart my homemade Grey Knights book on day one. They're already grotesquely overpriced because they're paying for psychic powers they can't actually use...)

(Though maybe without the "seven-power lore" constraint we'll get usable powers back. Pros and cons to the mess, I guess.)

the_scotsman wrote:
my only hope is that we don't see the AOS "Rule of 1" for wizards, where they can only cast one of the same named power each turn. If Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcs don't even have a single unique spell, I feel like a lot of psykers like Inquisitors, Wyrdvanes, etc are going to be throwing around a LOT of smites. And if everyone's got it, the second you run a regular sorc in your tsons list, there'd be no reason to use any of your sarge sorcs for anything if you can only cast 1 smite a turn..might as well cast the best smite you have.

Didn't they already state that in the Psychic Phase overview?

 Charistoph wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
my only hope is that we don't see the AOS "Rule of 1" for wizards, where they can only cast one of the same named power each turn. If Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcs don't even have a single unique spell, I feel like a lot of psykers like Inquisitors, Wyrdvanes, etc are going to be throwing around a LOT of smites. And if everyone's got it, the second you run a regular sorc in your tsons list, there'd be no reason to use any of your sarge sorcs for anything if you can only cast 1 smite a turn..might as well cast the best smite you have.

Didn't they already state that in the Psychic Phase overview?

Nope: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/28/new-warhammer-40000-psychic-phase/

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
my only hope is that we don't see the AOS "Rule of 1" for wizards, where they can only cast one of the same named power each turn. If Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcs don't even have a single unique spell, I feel like a lot of psykers like Inquisitors, Wyrdvanes, etc are going to be throwing around a LOT of smites. And if everyone's got it, the second you run a regular sorc in your tsons list, there'd be no reason to use any of your sarge sorcs for anything if you can only cast 1 smite a turn..might as well cast the best smite you have.

Didn't they already state that in the Psychic Phase overview?

Nope: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/28/new-warhammer-40000-psychic-phase/

Well, I just took the following to mean that:

Each time you pick a psyker, you can cast as many spells as their datasheet states (which would previously be the same as their Mastery Level)...

Nothing was said about being able to cast the same spell twice, and considering we already know how GW treats the Mastery Level, I'd consider that pretty much exactly that.

 Charistoph wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
my only hope is that we don't see the AOS "Rule of 1" for wizards, where they can only cast one of the same named power each turn. If Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcs don't even have a single unique spell, I feel like a lot of psykers like Inquisitors, Wyrdvanes, etc are going to be throwing around a LOT of smites. And if everyone's got it, the second you run a regular sorc in your tsons list, there'd be no reason to use any of your sarge sorcs for anything if you can only cast 1 smite a turn..might as well cast the best smite you have.

Didn't they already state that in the Psychic Phase overview?

Nope: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/28/new-warhammer-40000-psychic-phase/

Well, I just took the following to mean that:

Each time you pick a psyker, you can cast as many spells as their datasheet states (which would previously be the same as their Mastery Level)...

Nothing was said about being able to cast the same spell twice, and considering we already know how GW treats the Mastery Level, I'd consider that pretty much exactly that.

I thought that the rule of 1 in AoS meant a power could only be attempted once each turn. As in, if you have 3 magic users with smite, Smite can only be attempted once, not once with each character. There's nothing about that in the article.

Correct. The rule of 1 in AOS means that you can only attempt a spell once, success or fail.

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
my only hope is that we don't see the AOS "Rule of 1" for wizards, where they can only cast one of the same named power each turn. If Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcs don't even have a single unique spell, I feel like a lot of psykers like Inquisitors, Wyrdvanes, etc are going to be throwing around a LOT of smites. And if everyone's got it, the second you run a regular sorc in your tsons list, there'd be no reason to use any of your sarge sorcs for anything if you can only cast 1 smite a turn..might as well cast the best smite you have.

Didn't they already state that in the Psychic Phase overview?

Nope: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/28/new-warhammer-40000-psychic-phase/

Well, I just took the following to mean that:

Each time you pick a psyker, you can cast as many spells as their datasheet states (which would previously be the same as their Mastery Level)...

Nothing was said about being able to cast the same spell twice, and considering we already know how GW treats the Mastery Level, I'd consider that pretty much exactly that.

I thought that the rule of 1 in AoS meant a power could only be attempted once each turn. As in, if you have 3 magic users with smite, Smite can only be attempted once, not once with each character. There's nothing about that in the article.

Ah, I thought it meant something different.

They really put that in AoS? How assinine.

Which is pretty dumb, I think.

I understand not being able to stack spells (so no casting five Mystic Shields on one unit to give it +5 to saves) but it doesn't scale well at all. If you're running, say, Tzeentch daemons, it's easy to not have duplicate spells in 500 points. What about 1,000? Or 2,000? Or more?