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What the above poster said. If they are cheap, these rules are probably fine.

The name weirds me out. Its the sound I make on Friday nights after I get home.

Ok folks, with regards to the name, remember where we started here:

"Eladrith Ynneas"

So that's your previous lore-friendly alternatives.

Show of hands, who prefers "Eladrith Ynneas"? Who can HONESTLY say you wouldn't be rolling your eyes harder at that if they hadn't already come up with it?

the_scotsman wrote:
Ok folks, with regards to the name, remember where we started here:

"Eladrith Ynneas"

So that's your previous lore-friendly alternatives.

Show of hands, who prefers "Eladrith Ynneas"? Who can HONESTLY say you wouldn't be rolling your eyes harder at that if they hadn't already come up with it?

Secondary show of hands, does anyone actually use the stupid copyright-names? Seriously. I have yet to hear anyone who wasn't a GW employee use "Astra Militarum", let alone all the contortions that they've replaced "elf" with.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Ok folks, with regards to the name, remember where we started here:

"Eladrith Ynneas"

So that's your previous lore-friendly alternatives.

Show of hands, who prefers "Eladrith Ynneas"? Who can HONESTLY say you wouldn't be rolling your eyes harder at that if they hadn't already come up with it?

Secondary show of hands, does anyone actually use the stupid copyright-names? Seriously. I have yet to hear anyone who wasn't a GW employee use "Astra Militarum", let alone all the contortions that they've replaced "elf" with.

Well...see, the thing about "Aelf" is....you can just say it exactly the same as "Elf." Remember how they did the same thing with "Orks" and "Daemons?"

the_scotsman wrote:
Ok folks, with regards to the name, remember where we started here:

"Eladrith Ynneas"

So that's your previous lore-friendly alternatives.

Show of hands, who prefers "Eladrith Ynneas"? Who can HONESTLY say you wouldn't be rolling your eyes harder at that if they hadn't already come up with it?

I(Raises hand)

Sounds much cooler in my opinion.

Just as like all names, people is mad because they are new (And in many cases objetively bad, in others is just a question of tastes). In 20 years if this still exist, people would defend to no end terms like "Astra Militarum" or "Drukhari" as the BEST of the BEST, just like we do now with stupid names like Adeptus Astartes, a name with the only virtue of having been here for more than two decades.

 Galef wrote:
Sharnet would be great if it added +1 to the roll off. That's what it's designed to do anyway: trap the enemy.

I still think that they fixed the wrong things. Even if Raiders can move 12", allow passengers to disembark and Wyches move 8+ inches, they still can't get through enemy Overwatch, which is worse now that A) twin-linked is twice the shots and B) since everyone gets unlimited overwatch, you can't use expendable unit to absorb it.

-

Is Overwatch a distinct phase? Or is it part of the fight-subphase?

Sounds like wyches would get their dodge during overwatch... right? Or am I going herpy-derpy here?

 whembly wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Sharnet would be great if it added +1 to the roll off. That's what it's designed to do anyway: trap the enemy.

I still think that they fixed the wrong things. Even if Raiders can move 12", allow passengers to disembark and Wyches move 8+ inches, they still can't get through enemy Overwatch, which is worse now that A) twin-linked is twice the shots and B) since everyone gets unlimited overwatch, you can't use expendable unit to absorb it.

-

Is Overwatch a distinct phase? Or is it part of the fight-subphase?

Sounds like wyches would get their dodge during overwatch... right? Or am I going herpy-derpy here?

Overwatch happens during the charge phase which is distinct from the fight phase.

Overwatch happens during the charge phase, which is distinct from the fight phase.

@Whembly: what Docdoom said, although I wouldn't say it's you that is going herpy-derpy, but GW for this oversight.

The funny thing about the no escape rule is that it's being heralded as this amazing thing but it's still a straight up nerf compared to prior editions.

"There's like a 50% chance you can keep a unit locked on combat!" I mean, okay. But pre-8th there was a 100% chance you'd keep the unit locked in combat.

I'm curious to see what their weapon upgrades look like now. Basically, if they end up lacking the ability to wound most units on 3s and a way to improve their no escape rule they're going to likely be ass and you'd be better off shooting stuff to death with raiders/ravagers.

Thanks guys...yowsa... wyches seems to still suck ass.

Unless they all can throw haywire 'nads... otherwise, they're going to stay on the shelf in 8E

blaktoof wrote:
None of the faction focuses are worth reading.

The information is too little, it's a tiny scrap of one or two unit entries without knowing any of the rest of the unit rules, if the army has special rules, or how any of those interact with the core rules of 8th.

It's like seeing a post it notes through the window of a high rise building and assuming how well that business stock price is based on that.

Unless you play Sisters of Battle. Then you're so desperate for any kind of sustanence that even tiny little scraps are a buffet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galef wrote:

Spoiler:

 docdoom77 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Sharnet would be great if it added +1 to the roll off. That's what it's designed to do anyway: trap the enemy.

I still think that they fixed the wrong things. Even if Raiders can move 12", allow passengers to disembark and Wyches move 8+ inches, they still can't get through enemy Overwatch, which is worse now that A) twin-linked is twice the shots and B) since everyone gets unlimited overwatch, you can't use expendable unit to absorb it.

-

Is Overwatch a distinct phase? Or is it part of the fight-subphase?

Sounds like wyches would get their dodge during overwatch... right? Or am I going herpy-derpy here?

Overwatch happens during the charge phase which is distinct from the fight phase.

@Whembly: what Docdoom said, although I wouldn't say it's you that is going herpy-derpy, but GW for this oversight.

Did they though? Do we know that it actually isn't the charge AND fight phase? Do we know that this wasn't balanced around being overwatched without it? Do we even know what a witches actual save is? Is there an upgrade that causes problems for opponents who try to overwatch? Or is making snap judgements about a model being useless silly when we haven't gotten to play the game yet?

 whembly wrote:
Thanks guys...yowsa... wyches seems to still suck ass.

Unless they all can throw haywire 'nads... otherwise, they're going to stay on the shelf in 8E

We.. don't even know their full rules or costs...

Hopefully they can take as many special weapons as they want this time around. Feels weird that they required 5-10 to take them.

I don't play DE, and likely never will, but I really like some of these changes.

- Numarines, meet disintegrator cannon. Looks super good at killing elite infantry with guaranteed 2 damage, but not overkill like AT weapons.

- Army stuck at a low tier now has a potential counter to ability shared by units of a consistently top tier army: Wyches can stop Tau from walking/flying away. Granted, it's a random roll, but ties favor DE.

I do hope to see more people playing DE (with success!) where I play, as variety is the spice of life, after all.

Considering the DE are one of the armies I'm considering, it looks good. I eagerly await the full rules

People are forgetting the use of pistols in CC, wytches are going to be amazing! Makes up for their lacklustre strength thanks to poison.

the_scotsman wrote:

Spoiler:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Ok folks, with regards to the name, remember where we started here:

"Eladrith Ynneas"

So that's your previous lore-friendly alternatives.

Show of hands, who prefers "Eladrith Ynneas"? Who can HONESTLY say you wouldn't be rolling your eyes harder at that if they hadn't already come up with it?

Secondary show of hands, does anyone actually use the stupid copyright-names? Seriously. I have yet to hear anyone who wasn't a GW employee use "Astra Militarum", let alone all the contortions that they've replaced "elf" with.

Well...see, the thing about "Aelf" is....you can just say it exactly the same as "Elf." Remember how they did the same thing with "Orks" and "Daemons?"

Except "ae" =/= "e", so they are pronounced differently. And "Orc" still has a hard "c" like "Ork", so there's no phoneme change. And daemons are an actual thing.

Not quite the same as a complete, almost 180 name change.

Is it pronounced "Druk" like a duck, or "Drook" like a rook?
The real questions, coming to you live from Rippy.

Been playing dark eldar for along time are now my primary army ever since the destruction of orks lol.
The thing i like about dark eldar is this they are a skill based army if you mess up on strategy you are dead you get punished hard for a mistake but if you play well you do well for the most part.

As for the new rules or at least what we know wyches seem well kind of the same with maybe a little extra hitting power in cc since some things have -1 rend but we have no idea about any real special rules for them. Here is my thoughts on it the champ of the unit will prob add a second d6 to the dice off with your opponent and you pick your highest or it could be amount of models kind of thing. Wyches will be fast at moving there for get closer in order to charge. They may have access to some sort of grenades in order to hamper over watch or the likes but this one seems doubtful.

The one thing no one has mentioned is what bonuses will there character give them Leith her self since all characters give some sort of bonus bubbles.

In the end it's the points they cost will be the thing that will make them useable or not imagine them being only 7 or 8 points with some decent cc stuff then they look more enticing.

Wonder what they will do to wracks to make them playable and not laugh out loud mince.

I am looking forward to this edition as my army's are dark eldar, nids and choas so really can't make them too much worse lol *touch wood *. Mostly i want to see some new models for my dark eldar more than any other side

Also, how come your wyches are dying to overwatch? When I see them on the tabletop they don't survive long enough to get into charge range in the first place.

Do you guys think that the transports are going to have an armor save in addition to the 5+ invuln, or just the 5+ invuln?

 Traditio wrote:
Do you guys think that the transports are going to have an armor save in addition to the 5+ invuln, or just the 5+ invuln?

you can be positive on them having an armor save, it proably won't be a very good one, but it'll be there

Surprised there was no mention of assaulting with the transports themselves. From what we've seen of the rules, that should be possible and dark eldar vehicles might even have enough spiky bits to make it worthwhile for something other than managing overwatch.

The persistent theme seems to be that melee is always talked about in terms of how awesome your damage dealing capacity is when you get there, but no mention of how these units are actually going to survive to get in charge range, avoid being toasted by overwatch flamers and so on.

Surprised that dodge still seems to be an invulnerable save, not a to-hit modifier.

A lot of people seem to be reading winning a roll off as winning outright on one roll, but it seems to me that it's more likely to work the same way it does now, re-rolling until there is a winner. I think the reason it is a roll-off rather than a straight 4+ is for both players to be able to use command points to influence their dice.

BlaxicanX wrote:The funny thing about the no escape rule is that it's being heralded as this amazing thing but it's still a straight up nerf compared to prior editions.

"There's like a 50% chance you can keep a unit locked on combat!" I mean, okay. But pre-8th there was a 100% chance you'd keep the unit locked in combat.

I'm curious to see what their weapon upgrades look like now. Basically, if they end up lacking the ability to wound most units on 3s and a way to improve their no escape rule they're going to likely be ass and you'd be better off shooting stuff to death with raiders/ravagers.

My basic logic is that a cheap unit of wyches can do something rather unique in 8th edition (probably). Between the 4++ in the fight subphase and the no escape rule, this could make them one of a rare number of tarpits this edition.

But again, this is all down to price. Honestly people pointing out the splinter pistol could be kinda useful in CC thanks to the pistol rules already made me nervous. Its not like they'd be able to win more than one combat at most, with the new overwatch and their (assumed) fragility.

Bottom line: I don't see a situation where wyches can ever make a useful contribution killing enemy units, so tarpit is the only potential use I can imagine.

Perfect Organism wrote:A lot of people seem to be reading winning a roll off as winning outright on one roll, but it seems to me that it's more likely to work the same way it does now, re-rolling until there is a winner. I think the reason it is a roll-off rather than a straight 4+ is for both players to be able to use command points to influence their dice.

Why would they specify the unit falling back must win the roll off, if not to point out who wins a tie? If ties resulted in more rolling for all, the line wouldn't need to exist.

Dru ----- Khari

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The funny thing about the no escape rule is that it's being heralded as this amazing thing but it's still a straight up nerf compared to prior editions.

"There's like a 50% chance you can keep a unit locked on combat!" I mean, okay. But pre-8th there was a 100% chance you'd keep the unit locked in combat.

I'm curious to see what their weapon upgrades look like now. Basically, if they end up lacking the ability to wound most units on 3s and a way to improve their no escape rule they're going to likely be ass and you'd be better off shooting stuff to death with raiders/ravagers.

Well this is a new edition so who cares what they did prior editions (if they did anything at all besides being a Haywire delivery system)

Let me know when they re-release Duke Sliscus.

 Talamare wrote:
Dru ----- Khari

so kinda pronounced like Uhkari? (as in fighting Uhkari) I can dig it.