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0006/07/22 12:06:13
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/05/18 22:35:41
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Grey Knights being as strong as custodes will happen right around the time Kaldor Draigo gets his upgrade to primarch stat line. Tbh, I'm hoping grey knights just become psychic marines with fancy wargear, as they should've been in the first place.
2017/05/18 22:36:40
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Galas wrote: A Grey Knight shoudln't be superior or even equal to a Custodes.
Never! Just point both accordingly to that difference in power.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. I'm of the opinion that 1) Custodes should never have been given models/stats in 40k, and 2) GK supposedly started with the Emp's gene-seed as well (it's hinted at that in the GK 'dex), and were designed to fight the biggest threat the Imperium faced - the malign entities of the Warp. If that's not enough of a reason for them to be the ultimate baddies of the IoM, I don't know what is.
Sometimes, the only truth people understand, comes from the barrel of a gun.
2017/05/18 22:44:58
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Galas wrote: A Grey Knight shoudln't be superior or even equal to a Custodes.
Never! Just point both accordingly to that difference in power.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. I'm of the opinion that 1) Custodes should never have been given models/stats in 40k, and 2) GK supposedly started with the Emp's gene-seed as well (it's hinted at that in the GK 'dex), and were designed to fight the biggest threat the Imperium faced - the malign entities of the Warp. If that's not enough of a reason for them to be the ultimate baddies of the IoM, I don't know what is.
I agree with your 1 point, but not with the second. Custodes are literally, as a fighting force, the Most Powerfull entities in the Empire. A single custodes in the fluff was just below a Primarch, and not for a very big difference. Grey Knights are Elite Space Marines yes, specially kited to fight Demons, but Custodes are the 10.000 individuals selected by the Emperor, hand-crafted to perfection by hitself, and it can be even arguee that in some traits they are superior than the Primarchs: They are incorruptible and totally loyal to the EMperor afterall.
I'll put Grey Knights below Custodes and probably at par with the Officio Assasinorum assasins, but the fluff at least to me is clever in that, again, as a "Organiced force", the Custodes are literally the best the Imperium of Mankind can put into a battle. And thats basically why all those years they haven't had miniatures. And they have should remain that way, but alas, that ship has sailed already.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/05/18 22:51:47
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/05/18 22:47:55
Subject: Re:How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
BrianDavion wrote: custodes in the fluff tended to vary, but I was NEVER given the impression they where nearly on par with the Primarchs.
No, not on par with a Primarch, I was saying that probably, some of the more veteran and elite Custodes could put fight against a Primarch. I'll put it into a 30-70% of winning, in favour of the Primarch. (Obviously, all of this is irrelevant because in narrative you can always justify how a less powerfull guy can kill another much more powerfull: David vs Goliat is the primer example of that )
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/05/18 22:55:56
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Vryce wrote: Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. I'm of the opinion that 1) Custodes should never have been given models/stats in 40k, and 2) GK supposedly started with the Emp's gene-seed as well (it's hinted at that in the GK 'dex), and were designed to fight the biggest threat the Imperium faced - the malign entities of the Warp. If that's not enough of a reason for them to be the ultimate baddies of the IoM, I don't know what is.
You seem to forget that the ultramarines are the one true chapter who all others, except a few poor ignorant aberrant chapters, strives to emulate. Their primarch was the true spiritual liege of all other real space marines.
Or we could just ignore certain patterns in fluff and accept grey knights are just (extremely cool, I will fully admit) psychic space marines with fancy toys.
I mean, it looks like the whole incorruptible super marines shtick is being passed down to primaris now. Grey Knights are no longer the one true sues. In fact, I bet we will see a grey knight fall to chaos in fluff soon. I suppose that's what they ultimately get for not following the spiritual liege.
Also, this is meant to be in good humor, I really do hate the Grey Knight fluff and hope to god it gets toned down, but I don't hold it against anyone who enjoy it.
2017/05/18 22:58:54
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Galas wrote: A Grey Knight shoudln't be superior or even equal to a Custodes.
Never! Just point both accordingly to that difference in power.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. I'm of the opinion that 1) Custodes should never have been given models/stats in 40k, and 2) GK supposedly started with the Emp's gene-seed as well (it's hinted at that in the GK 'dex), and were designed to fight the biggest threat the Imperium faced - the malign entities of the Warp. If that's not enough of a reason for them to be the ultimate baddies of the IoM, I don't know what is.
I agree with your 1 point, but not with the second. Custodes are literally, as a fighting force, the Most Powerfull entities in the Empire. A single custodes in the fluff was just below a Primarch, and not for a very big difference. Grey Knights are Elite Space Marines yes, specially kited to fight Demons, but Custodes are the 10.000 individuals selected by the Emperor, hand-crafted to perfection by hitself, and it can be even arguee that in some traits they are superior than the Primarchs: They are incorruptible and totally loyal to the EMperor afterall.
I'll put Grey Knights below Custodes and probably at par with the Officio Assasinorum assasins, but the fluff at least to me is clever in that, again, as a "Organiced force", the Custodes are literally the best the Imperium of Mankind can put into a battle. And thats basically why all those years they haven't had miniatures. And they have should remain that way, but alas, that ship has sailed already.
Just below a Primarch? I've never seen anything, anywhere, that equates them on that level. I get that they're powerful creations. Obviously, they're the Emperor's bodyguards and personal PDF. But not on the level of a Primarch. I suppose they did succeed where others failed, in that none of them fell to Chaos. But then, neither have the GK. But we're kinda going OT here.
Can we compromise, and say that GK Paladins are a step below Custodes, but still heads and shoulders above the rest of the SM Termies?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 22:59:26
Sometimes, the only truth people understand, comes from the barrel of a gun.
2017/05/18 23:01:45
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Vryce wrote: Just below a Primarch? I've never seen anything, anywhere, that equates them on that level. I get that they're powerful creations. Obviously, they're the Emperor's bodyguards and personal PDF. But not on the level of a Primarch. I suppose they did succeed where others failed, in that none of them fell to Chaos. But then, neither have the GK. But we're kinda going OT here.
Can we compromise, and say that GK Paladins are a step below Custodes, but still heads and shoulders above the rest of the SM Termies?
Only if we agree primaris are on par with them and they don't get primaris marines due to their "special" geneseed not being incompatible.
2017/05/18 23:10:43
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Galas wrote: A Grey Knight shoudln't be superior or even equal to a Custodes.
Never! Just point both accordingly to that difference in power.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. I'm of the opinion that 1) Custodes should never have been given models/stats in 40k, and 2) GK supposedly started with the Emp's gene-seed as well (it's hinted at that in the GK 'dex), and were designed to fight the biggest threat the Imperium faced - the malign entities of the Warp. If that's not enough of a reason for them to be the ultimate baddies of the IoM, I don't know what is.
I agree with your 1 point, but not with the second. Custodes are literally, as a fighting force, the Most Powerfull entities in the Empire. A single custodes in the fluff was just below a Primarch, and not for a very big difference. Grey Knights are Elite Space Marines yes, specially kited to fight Demons, but Custodes are the 10.000 individuals selected by the Emperor, hand-crafted to perfection by hitself, and it can be even arguee that in some traits they are superior than the Primarchs: They are incorruptible and totally loyal to the EMperor afterall.
I'll put Grey Knights below Custodes and probably at par with the Officio Assasinorum assasins, but the fluff at least to me is clever in that, again, as a "Organiced force", the Custodes are literally the best the Imperium of Mankind can put into a battle. And thats basically why all those years they haven't had miniatures. And they have should remain that way, but alas, that ship has sailed already.
Just below a Primarch? I've never seen anything, anywhere, that equates them on that level. I get that they're powerful creations. Obviously, they're the Emperor's bodyguards and personal PDF. But not on the level of a Primarch. I suppose they did succeed where others failed, in that none of them fell to Chaos. But then, neither have the GK. But we're kinda going OT here.
Can we compromise, and say that GK Paladins are a step below Custodes, but still heads and shoulders above the rest of the SM Termies?
Yeah, that what I was saying. As pure Space Marine forces, the Grey Knights are the best of them, thats why I said that to me they are on par with the Officio Assasinorum different assasins and just below Custodes.
I suppose that a Primaris marine could be on par with a Grey Knight, but what the Primaris gain into speed, force, etc... the Grey Knight gains being totally pure, a Psyker, and having better equipement. And if you can have Primaris Grey Knights, then obviously, they will be better than normal Primaris.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/18 23:11:45
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/05/18 23:13:23
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Vryce wrote: Just below a Primarch? I've never seen anything, anywhere, that equates them on that level. I get that they're powerful creations. Obviously, they're the Emperor's bodyguards and personal PDF. But not on the level of a Primarch. I suppose they did succeed where others failed, in that none of them fell to Chaos. But then, neither have the GK. But we're kinda going OT here.
Can we compromise, and say that GK Paladins are a step below Custodes, but still heads and shoulders above the rest of the SM Termies?
Only if we agree primaris are on par with them and they don't get primaris marines due to their "special" geneseed not being incompatible.
I don't want Primaris Marines in my GK army anyway, so that's not an issue w/ me.
Sometimes, the only truth people understand, comes from the barrel of a gun.
2017/05/19 02:33:02
Subject: Re:How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
fresus wrote: They might get a better armor than regular termies instead of additional wounds. Either a better invul, or ignoring -1 and -2 rend, or even a 1+ save (with 1s always failing) to ignore the first rend.
My money is here.
.
2017/05/19 02:34:33
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Ok ok. First off, just so you all know where I stand. I'm a huge flaming fanboy to grey Knights. I like them being Mary Sues. I like their fluff. I love Paladins.
That being said, saying a custode or a paladin are better than one another is actually no ones right to say. Because I know for a fact just how little story their is for both! I have read every little scrap of grey knight fluff to include books I can get my hands on. And 1) from book to book everything changes. And 2) in all those books Paladins are only mentioned. You never really get to see what they are capable of. Custodes are the same way. Their isn't tons of books or really anything written about how good they are.
If I were to put s grey knight on a scale of guardsman to primarch. I would say they fall ok the same level as a regular space marine captain. Yes a captain. Not to get to into it but grey Knights are supposed to be head and shoulders genetically superior to space marines. The whole Geen seed being from the big E thing, basically making them almost ALMOST rank and file mini primarchs. Plus. Their whole 666 trials are supposed to be hard on space marine standards. Then they are given the best equipment. And they are psycers. Meaning they can project mind shields around themselves. Heal wounds. Slow time to fight better. Shoot mind bullets etc. then out of those guys the best most lolly of them are made terminators. Then out of those terminators the most talented fighters are taken. Stripped naked. And given a sword to go slay a grater deamon. That guys might come back. And if he does. He is made to be in the hall of champions. One of only 100 Paladins. 100!
This all being said. Flaming fanboy aside. I still actually haven't read a single thing about Paladins doing anything cool. Literally nothing.
I did read a book called the sons of Titan which is the best representation of grey Knights I have ever seen. And 7 grey Knights take on several thousand orks. And are winning the fight. They even say "this enemy is beneath us"
Okay!!! Now that I got that out of my system. Sorry. I'm in the military and don't get to nerd the heck out very often so it gets all bottled up.
I think pallies should be just as good skill wise as custodes. I think they should not be as physically tough or strong. I think they should have as good if not better armament. And I think they should also have great shooting. And maybe some kind of psychic power special to them? Not sure about that last one. Cost wise they should be a pretty penny. But in this edition actually put out. Not just get esploded by one str 8 ap2 blast.
Now here is a really big question floating around in my noggin. IF grey Knights start getting the whole primaris treatment.
(Which truscale grey Knights/ closer to the lore sounds awesome to me) and IF they get primaris terminators with like 3 wounds or some crap. Does that mean we will then get primaris Paladins? Because that sounds like to much. Like right now they are weed. And that would be like straight sweet Mexican black tar heroin. It's a fun idea but waaaay to much to handle.
Also also. Grey knight grand master have also been very lack luster for a while. What do you think they will have? Like 5 wounds? Or more? Their 3 wounds and lacking a really good inv or eternal warrior was the dumbest thing to me.
2017/05/19 13:14:59
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
"where the other space marine chapters were built upon existing stock, the grey knights were born of a new gene-seed, one without the flaws of those that had gone before, and which carried the gift of the emperor's own flesh and soul."
Directly from the GK codex. I know that fluff is kinda silly regarding who's gene seed is better. I would imagine a gene seed with the gift of the emperors flesh and soul would be just about the most powerful gene seed around. So essentially GK gene seed > Primarus/Custode gene seed anyways.
IMO a Paladin would be more than a match for a Custode. Apart from being matched at the very worst evenly physically after wargear and skill is concerned. A paladin is essentially a librarian as well - this would make it a no contest.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/19 13:29:42
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2017/05/19 14:30:23
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Xenomancers wrote: "where the other space marine chapters were built upon existing stock, the grey knights were born of a new gene-seed, one without the flaws of those that had gone before, and which carried the gift of the emperor's own flesh and soul."
Directly from the GK codex. I know that fluff is kinda silly regarding who's gene seed is better. I would imagine a gene seed with the gift of the emperors flesh and soul would be just about the most powerful gene seed around. So essentially GK gene seed > Primarus/Custode gene seed anyways.
IMO a Paladin would be more than a match for a Custode. Apart from being matched at the very worst evenly physically after wargear and skill is concerned. A paladin is essentially a librarian as well - this would make it a no contest.
Custodes have no geneseed. All of them are Hand-Crafted by the Emperor to make them inmortal to age, and they have the best equipement that exist in the Imperium. How can you say that Grey Knights, something made by mere humans replicating the work of the Emperor can be more powerfull that the Obra Prima of the Emperor Himself? A Primaris has nothing to do with a Custodes, so I don't see why you are putting them together.
The genetic enhancement that forms the Custodes is different from and predates that developed to create the Space Marines. Each Custodian is a unique work of art, the product of genetic lore collected over many lifetimes[. During the Great Crusade, the Custodes always kept a contingent with the Emperor for his protection, but also traveled individually as envoys. The Emperor valued the Custodians above all his other warriors, and while he was willingly to expend countless of his servants he was always hesitant to bleed his Praetorian's.
Nothing, and I say nothing what the Grey Knights had can compare with the Custodes equipement. They had the BEST equipement in the GOLDEN age of the Imperium. 10.000 years after, with all the techonological regresion, how can the Grey Knight equipement compare to that?
The Custodes were equipped with the best power armour of the age, and had access to the most highly advanced weaponry and vehicles of the Imperium Equipment, including designs that were not permitted to the Space Marine Legions
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Grey Knights aren't powerfull. As I said, to me they are below Custodes but above Space Marines, Deathwathc, etc... but comparing them to Custodes, or even saying that they are superior? Sorry but thats just absurd and don't supported by the lore in any shape or form.
Ant to end this conversation, maybe GK have the geneseed of the Emperor. Well, Custodes in the other hand...
Recent sources however seem to firmly establish that the Custodes were created from the flesh and blood of the Emperor himself.
As befitting of their role as the Emperor's guards, the Custodes were given access to the finest and most advanced technologies of the Imperium.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/05/19 14:35:16
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/05/19 15:01:34
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Ahh yes - both greyknights and custodes are made from the emperor but Custodes are just better because (reasons) Both have access to the best equipment but Custodes weapons are better because (reasons). Grey-knights are all gifted psychics but you ignore this because (reasons). Come on man. Custodes just aren't that great compared to a grey-knight Paladin. Were talking about a secret army of the inquisition - they have access to everything custodes have access to. Looks to me like Custodes attach bolters to the ends of their non-force halberds - while greyknights attach a storm bolter to their arm and have force halberds.
Just to add to how BAGK really are if you want to talk about fluff. GK will fight along side regular marines in defense against daemons - after the daemons are purged then they turn around and slaughter the marines to stop any chance of corruption from spreading. Safe to say these marines don't just bend over and get slaughtered willingly.
Why mention primus marines? Becauses primus marines aren't made from big E and are therefore weaker than both custodes AND greyknights.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2017/05/19 15:05:24
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Xenomancers wrote: Ahh yes - both greyknights and custodes are made from the emperor but Custodes are just better because (reasons) Both have access to the best equipment but Custodes weapons are better because (reasons). Grey-knights are all gifted psychics but you ignore this because (reasons). Come on man. Custodes just aren't that great compared to a grey-knight Paladin. Were talking about a secret army of the inquisition - they have access to everything custodes have access to. Looks to me like Custodes attach bolters to the ends of their non-force halberds - while greyknights attach a storm bolter to their arm and have force halberds.
Just to add to how BAGK really are if you want to talk about fluff. GK will fight along side regular marines in defense against daemons - after the daemons are purged then they turn around and slaughter the marines to stop any chance of corruption from spreading. Safe to say these marines don't just bend over and get slaughtered willingly.
Why mention primus marines? Becauses primus marines aren't made from big E and are therefore weaker than both custodes AND greyknights.
I have put you how literally it says here how Custodes are hand-crafted by the Emperor, like Primarchs, where the Grey Knights use the same process as other Space Marines with Geneseed, and how they have literally the best and most advanced equipement the Imperium has. You want to ignore all of that, so this discussion isn't gonna go anywhere.
And I was not ignoring the fact that Grey Knights are all Psychics, but to me the different in meele capabilities and equipement compensates that greatly.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/05/19 17:05:31
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Give paladins mastery level 2, extra wound(s) and 3 attacks base, and maybe they'll be worth 55 points before all needed upgrades. As it stands, they need to be able to compete with custodians and other terminators. If your paying 2/3rds the price extra on your terminators for only 1 extra wound, why not just buy another terminator? TBH it's a more efficient way to get more wounds.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/19 17:08:13
2017/05/19 17:09:51
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Xenomancers wrote: Ahh yes - both greyknights and custodes are made from the emperor but Custodes are just better because (reasons) Both have access to the best equipment but Custodes weapons are better because (reasons). Grey-knights are all gifted psychics but you ignore this because (reasons). Come on man. Custodes just aren't that great compared to a grey-knight Paladin. Were talking about a secret army of the inquisition - they have access to everything custodes have access to. Looks to me like Custodes attach bolters to the ends of their non-force halberds - while greyknights attach a storm bolter to their arm and have force halberds.
Things to note:
Custodes weren't (so far as we know) made from the emperor but by the emperor. We don't actually know details beyond they were each hand crafted by him. They might use his genetic code in some way (making them mini primarchs) or just really advanced dark age tech. The basic difference is hand crafted vs "mass produced" (to the degree any space marine can be considered mass produced) and psychic abilities help even things out.
Again, grey knights have the best bits available to the inquisition can acquire/produce. Which doesn't even give them the best overall gear in the greater imperium, the adeptus mechanicus doesn't share all it's best stuff, nor do the assassin temples, nor do the custodes. They do have the best psychic equipment (unless you count a culexus assassin) as the mechanicus doesn't hoard that for obvious reasons. Also
If you look through the wargear, it's fairly close, with the grey knights psychic gear evening things out. The custodes spears can have a bolter, but some have literal disintegration beams and melta pistols. It's interesting, comparing the armories they have a lot of very similar stuff. Rapid fire instant death guns, rapid fire anti armor autocannons, a better heavy flamer. It's just high tech for custodes, vs psychic for grey knights. The biggest difference is that a lot of grey knight equipment was cleary made to deal with demons, as it's got little armor penetration. Custodes tends to be better on on armor by comparison.
In general effectiveness I'd put them fairly even, grey knights are another way of getting to a similar point. Only in terms of pure stat line would I say custodes are superior, and that's grey knights have psychic powers.
2017/05/19 18:32:29
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
SilverAlien wrote: ...The basic difference is hand crafted vs "mass produced" (to the degree any space marine can be considered mass produced)...
This is sort of the root of the problem; Space Marines in general exist because the Emperor was trying to find a way to make something like the Custodes on a scale that could be used for galactic conquest. They're a compromise between ease of creation/production and the effectiveness of the resulting soldier.
The Grey Knights are individually weaker than the Custodes simply because they're still Space Marines; the Custodes are actually physically altered on a very deep level to become what they are, the Grey Knights have specialized cloned organs and cybernetics implanted after the fact. If you pit them against each other in a straight one-on-one fight there isn't really any question that the Custodian would win.
The problem with the Custodes is that they aren't really an army, they're an honour guard. They're trained as individuals, and they're incredibly good fighters as individuals, but the Grey Knights have a level of coordination, equipment, versatility, and just general training in teamwork/coordination that goes beyond what the Custodes can really manage. The psychic angle is sort of an extra layer to this; individually the Grey Knights aren't particularly powerful psykers since they're so shackled/controlled, they're just incredibly good at coordinating and focusing their power to the point that squads of them can throw their weight around the way an individual battle-psyker can.
So the comparison is sort of moot; the Custodes were made by the Emperor, but they weren't made from the Emperor in the sense that they've got bits of his genetic material wandering about because they were designed and made from the beginning to be what they are instead of adapted after the fact the way the Grey Knights were. As to the wargear the arsenal of the Custodes are Terran weapons from the Age of Strife that the Emperor has kept locked up in secret and refused to share with the Mechanicum, whereas the Grey Knights are running about with psi-tech that skirts the borders of things that would be heretical to the Mechanicum and is thus probably made in highly controlled/specialized forges on Titan either without the Mechanicum's involvement or under special sanction.
(Though this whole comparison is made much funnier by the fact that there are 800 "mass-produced" Grey Knights (as of the current book, I personally prefer the "size of several normal Chapters"/3,000-ish figures from the 3e book) and 10,000 "hand-crafted" Custodes. Either the Inquisition isn't that good at mass production or the turnover is a lot higher.)
my thought/hope would be 4 wounds for a Paladin (and probably 5-6 for a custodies. ideally this would mean that a paladin could not be killed by a lucky D3 roll, but statistically goes down to 2. it would also make them extremely resistant though not immune to small arms fire IE that traitor guard or chaos cultist with their lasgun equivilant probably can't hurt them, but when it is him and 10 buddied empying their power packs they will probably strip off a few wounds.
as to the my dad can beat p your dad of grey knights vs custodies.... custodies wins it but the two have such similar goals that it would be more likely be a super hero team up against the thing trying to make them fight rather than a custodies vs grey knights brawl... custodies "hi, you are in our way we are headed to secure that depot held by tainted individuals" grey knights" what a coincidence" *cue guitar music*
as for the fluff of 7 grey knights casually having a conversation while slaying over 1k orks... see that is just bad writing. gav thrope? seriously, space marines are powerful but can be taken out by a bolter round and often are in the books, though plot armor applies. admittedly the grey knights seem smart enough to keep their helmets on so that puts them above codex marines often. On orks though a ork bo yis supposed to be as tough as a space marine a little less strong but way more numerous. the idea of 7 no matter how they are geared outpacing 1k orks shouldn't happen without some kind of brilliant plan or extreme bottleneck
10000 points 7000 6000 5000 5000 2000
2017/05/19 20:46:05
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
(Though this whole comparison is made much funnier by the fact that there are 800 "mass-produced" Grey Knights (as of the current book, I personally prefer the "size of several normal Chapters"/3,000-ish figures from the 3e book) and 10,000 "hand-crafted" Custodes. Either the Inquisition isn't that good at mass production or the turnover is a lot higher.)
it is indeed a higher turnover, as far as we know the Custodes have not seen much combat since the end of the Heresy. (I imagine they're gonna get quite a work out with this new crusade given they are noted specificly to be going with gulliman) whereasd the grey knights see a fair bit of combat sending small squads into VERY dangerous situations. I can only imagine the Grey Knights lose a fair number of people.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2017/05/19 21:02:28
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/05/26 18:30:20
Subject: Re:How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
How the hell did custodes get into this thread? I have no respect for people who have been eating chips and watching tv for the last ten thousand years.
2017/05/26 19:15:26
Subject: How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
with the ork meganobz stats out I am hoping for 3 wounds, but maybe 4 if they are costed appropriately for it. currently the 40 points for mega nob vs 55 for a paladin comparison... the paladin is a steal point for ability. psychers, better guns, better upgrade options including 20 points for access to fnp (ork painboy is 50 points with a 6+ tshirt save)who comes with terminator armor. the inv save, and of course force weapons.
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2017/05/26 19:18:53
Subject: Re:How many wounds will a grey knight paladin have?
)
I've never seen anything, anywhere, that equates them on that level. I get that they're powerful creations. Obviously, they're the Emperor's bodyguards and personal PDF. But not on the level of a Primarch. I suppose they did succeed where others failed, in that none of them fell to Chaos. But then, neither have the 
But we're kinda going 
7000 
