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Yeah it was. Limit exceeded though. Ah well, it means that the stuff is out there. Should surface somewhere soon.

 Trickstick wrote:
Yeah it was. Limit exceeded though. Ah well, it means that the stuff is out there. Should surface somewhere soon.

That's what I'm hoping. Looking forward to getting the full picture.

tneva82 wrote:
Covering fire means just that. They shoot while rest of army moves ahead. What special rule you were waiting? Boost they get is from certain weapons getting boost and survivability boost they got.

How is that any different from 7th edition? Like why would GW even bother mentioning it in the AM reveal & specifically say they would be getting the ability to provide cover fire for your army whereas they didn't previously. That isn't my words, that is coming from GW. Look:



How am I misinterpreting it? GW says the following units don't function the tabletop as they do in the fluff. Aka heavy weapons teams are supposed to provide cover fire for infantry in fluff. Then they go onto say how awesome would it be if they did on the tabletop. Then they say they will. Then you look at their rules and its copy/paste from 7th edition practically. Heavy weapons teams desperately needed a buff, it looked like they were finally going to do something only to ignore them... again.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
Cough.

Link wouldn't work. I'm assuming its more Guard stuff?

Was every index and rulebook it seems.

 Commissar Benny wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Covering fire means just that. They shoot while rest of army moves ahead. What special rule you were waiting? Boost they get is from certain weapons getting boost and survivability boost they got.

How is that any different from 7th edition? Like why would GW even bother mentioning it in the AM reveal & specifically say they would be getting the ability to provide cover fire for your army whereas they didn't previously. That isn't my words, that is coming from GW. Look at the image I posted above.

it could be a rule that was in when the play testing was going on and removed at the last minute?

 Commissar Benny wrote:
Am I missing something here? In the Astra Militarum reveal it specifically states heavy weapons teams were gaining the ability to provide cover fire for our army. They have no special rules that indicate such. They look almost identical to 7th edition.

I'm trying really hard not to get discouraged right now but nothing I have seen thus far is getting me excited for 8th except maybe rough riders...

Perhaps there will be orders, similar to pinning so HWT will acts as suppressors in that regard... perhaps... I wouldn't hold my breath though, the new leaks to IG looks terrible.

 Commissar Benny wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Covering fire means just that. They shoot while rest of army moves ahead. What special rule you were waiting? Boost they get is from certain weapons getting boost and survivability boost they got.

How is that any different from 7th edition? Like why would GW even bother mentioning it in the AM reveal & specifically say they would be getting the ability to provide cover fire for your army whereas they didn't previously. That isn't my words, that is coming from GW. Look:

How am I misinterpreting it? GW says the following units don't function the tabletop as they do in the fluff. Aka heavy weapons teams are supposed to provide cover fire for infantry in fluff. Then they go onto say how awesome would it be if they did on the tabletop. Then they say they will. Then you look at their rules and its copy/paste from 7th edition practically. Heavy weapons teams desperately needed a buff, it looked like they were finally going to do something only to ignore them... again.

They will. Or do you think their shooting does not somehow work? Enemy has 1++ with no 1 fail against heavy weapon shooting?

Compared to before they can actually shoot once in a while rather than simply be taken out by random fire by autocannon or two.

They did get buff. Just not something as blindingly obvious as yet another stupid bespoken rule that are too many in the game as it is. Not every unit should have ultra special rules.

So, how bad is it going to be if there are no blob squads? Think that lots of 10 man squads can be used effectively?

 Trickstick wrote:
So, how bad is it going to be if there are no blob squads? Think that lots of 10 man squads can be used effectively?

is there much differance between a 50 man squad firing at something, and 5 ten man squads?

BrianDavion wrote:
is there much differance between a 50 man squad firing at something, and 5 ten man squads?

Well there is when you can only give out limited orders. Also, the scaling on things like vox casters is much more prohibitive.

On the positive side, you can get 30 man conscript squads for some blobbing.

 Trickstick wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
is there much differance between a 50 man squad firing at something, and 5 ten man squads?

Well there is when you can only give out limited orders. Also, the scaling on things like vox casters is much more prohibitive.

On the positive side, you can get 30 man conscript squads for some blobbing.

But OTOH less commisars you are probably going to need. Saves points and reduces danger of opponent killing commisars and then your blops just vanishesh.

tneva82 wrote:

 Commissar Benny wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Covering fire means just that. They shoot while rest of army moves ahead. What special rule you were waiting? Boost they get is from certain weapons getting boost and survivability boost they got.

How is that any different from 7th edition? Like why would GW even bother mentioning it in the AM reveal & specifically say they would be getting the ability to provide cover fire for your army whereas they didn't previously. That isn't my words, that is coming from GW. Look:

How am I misinterpreting it? GW says the following units don't function the tabletop as they do in the fluff. Aka heavy weapons teams are supposed to provide cover fire for infantry in fluff. Then they go onto say how awesome would it be if they did on the tabletop. Then they say they will. Then you look at their rules and its copy/paste from 7th edition practically. Heavy weapons teams desperately needed a buff, it looked like they were finally going to do something only to ignore them... again.

They will. Or do you think their shooting does not somehow work? Enemy has 1++ with no 1 fail against heavy weapon shooting?

Compared to before they can actually shoot once in a while rather than simply be taken out by random fire by autocannon or two.

They did get buff. Just not something as blindingly obvious as yet another stupid bespoken rule that are too many in the game as it is. Not every unit should have ultra special rules.

I'm not following you. Why would GW specifically talk about heavy weapons squads in the new reveal & get the community excited about them if they are exactly as they were in the previous editions? That makes absolutely no sense. Why would they say they want them to function on the tabletop as they do in the fluff, acknowledge that they currently do not, say they will, then not follow through on it?

If the "buff" to heavy weapons squads is simply that heavy weapons no longer snapfire after moving & instead just suffer the -1 to BS, that is absolute garbage. No IG player was running around moving his heavy weapons squads in the first place.

New ratlings look really nice. 7ppm, infiltrate, +1 cover and get a free move after shooting.

Oh boys, how I'm bummed right now. I'm just lacking words...




Exterminator auto-cannons losing twin-linked. Vanquisher is as unreliable as ever. Executioner will lack number of shots.
Last hope will be if punisher remains cheap.

The new index rewinds our army to how it was in 4th edition codex.
Heavy weapons squads back to heavy support, competing with LRBT and artillery.
Veterans back into elites, not even an option for carapace armour.
Special weapons squads moved into elite (which were in HQ additional units in the 4th ed codex) !
From what I see, troop infantry squads losing the ability to form a blob.

Only remains from the good ideas of Robin Cruddace (Emperor's may bless him!) in V5 codex : the order system, albeit with a short shouting range if you don't have radios.

The point reduction for buying line squads just represents how ineffective they will be on the battlefield.

So sad...

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Oh boys, how I'm bummed right now. I'm just lacking words...




Exterminator auto-cannons losing twin-linked. Vanquisher is as unreliable as ever. Executioner will lack number of shots.
Last hope will be if punisher remains cheap.

The new index rewinds our army to how it was in 4th edition codex.
Heavy weapons squads back to heavy support, competing with LRBT and artillery.
Veterans back into elites, not even an option for carapace armour.
Special weapons squads moved into elite (which were in HQ additional units in the 4th ed codex) !
From what I see, troop infantry squads losing the ability to form a blob.

Only remains from the good ideas of Robin Cruddace (Emperor's may bless him!) in V5 codex : the order system, albeit with a short shouting range if you don't have radios.

The point reduction for buying line squads just represents how ineffective they will be on the battlefield.

So sad...

We also lost munistorium priests
All baneblade variants are more expensive than Magnus
Ogryns & Bullgryns coming in at 30 & 35 ppm
We only have 7 characters. 1 of which is dead, the other is in a pokeball

Wonderful...

 Commissar Benny wrote:
I'm not following you. Why would GW specifically talk about heavy weapons squads in the new reveal & get the community excited about them if they are exactly as they were in the previous editions? That makes absolutely no sense. Why would they say they want them to function on the tabletop as they do in the fluff, acknowledge that they currently do not, say they will, then not follow through on it?

If the "buff" to heavy weapons squads is simply that heavy weapons no longer snapfire after moving & instead just suffer the -1 to BS, that is absolute garbage. No IG player was running around moving his heavy weapons squads in the first place.

They got several buffs. And you even mentioned one I had entirely forgotten.

No it's not same. It's just lacking snowflake special rule which game has too many as it is.

 Blacksails wrote:
If Vets can't be made a troops option, I'll be fairly sour.

Just take the detachment that has a minimum of an HQ and Elites. No need for Troops in that one.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Oh boys, how I'm bummed right now. I'm just lacking words...




Exterminator auto-cannons losing twin-linked. Vanquisher is as unreliable as ever. Executioner will lack number of shots.
Last hope will be if punisher remains cheap.

The new index rewinds our army to how it was in 4th edition codex.
Heavy weapons squads back to heavy support, competing with LRBT and artillery.
Veterans back into elites, not even an option for carapace armour.
Special weapons squads moved into elite (which were in HQ additional units in the 4th ed codex) !
From what I see, troop infantry squads losing the ability to form a blob.

Only remains from the good ideas of Robin Cruddace (Emperor's may bless him!) in V5 codex : the order system, albeit with a short shouting range if you don't have radios.

The point reduction for buying line squads just represents how ineffective they will be on the battlefield.

So sad...

keep in mind that competion for slots isn't a big deal given the detachments system the more you have the more CPs you get, so cramming a buncha cheap stuff into a detachment is benifical

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Oh boys, how I'm bummed right now. I'm just lacking words...




Exterminator auto-cannons losing twin-linked. Vanquisher is as unreliable as ever. Executioner will lack number of shots.
Last hope will be if punisher remains cheap.

Punisher cannon 2 pts cheaper than battlecannon.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yeah seems blopping gone. No mention of faction specific rules, no mention in commanders, no mention in infantry squad rules.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Last hope will be if punisher remains cheap.

Punisher with 3xhb = 176, I really hate this new points system. Probably fine on an app, but for pen and paper types it is annoying. Have to look at the unit entry, remember all the equipment, then turn to the back and look up all the points.

I think that a vanquisher pask may be worth it, as he is 2+ to hit now.

Another thing I saw: Scions are 2 specials per 5.

As to no blobs, I think that lots of ten mans could be good if you create a collapsible defense line. You would have to watch your spacing though.

 Trickstick wrote:

I think that a vanquisher pask may be worth it, as he is 2+ to hit now.

Nah battle cannon is still better vs tanks and obviously better vs infantry.

2+ is good but same helps battle cannon...Indeed BC gets bigger help from BS than it did before.

Pask can give orders to other characters, as the only person. So he can give another tank commander re-roll to hit on 1's and give that tank commander an overcharging plasmacannon setup... Decent enough, I guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, were the hell is the Vendetta? I don't see it anywhere. Don't tell me that not only did piss on our face by not applying twin linked to the LR exterminator cannon, but also removed our option of getting a gunship monster hunter with 6 LC?

I cant make my mind up on weather to love or hate this new Guard stuff.

Pros:
1) Infantry got cheaper and I can finally live my dream of an all conscript army!
2) Bullgryns became not only good but amazing.
3) Chimeras are only 5pts more then a rhino!
4) deathstrike isnt useless, wyverns are still insane
5) We can spam some amazing snipers thanks to ratlings.
6) holy gak, the taurox gatling cannon puts out a lot of dakka

Cons:
1) I was looking forward to using my 10 Leman Russ tanks, but they seem so crap now. Really bummed out by the Extermintor nerf.
2) Hellhounds have gone the way of the dodo, useless
3) no more carapace veterans
4) NO MORE PLATOONS D: It made IG so unique and cool Also no more regular infantry blobs :(.
5) NO MORE COMMANDS SQUADS WITH OFFICERS. Both are separate units
6) No unique regiment rules or doctrines :( Hopefully these will come back in the main codex.

Not good or bad, just OK:
1) no junior or senior command squads, only 1 kind of command squad no
2) Hydra seems better, amazing vs Tau?
3) Autocannons are 15pts
4) Orders stayed the same
5) Creed and Kell are still alive, infact all special characters seem to be a decent points costs
6) Superheaviers are still expensive, but seem pretty powerful.

Nork looks like an actually decent bodyguard now. 80tps, and can tank wounds off your commander.

Master of ordnance buffs nearby artillery: reroll 1s to hit at targets over 36" away. He is also an almost-basilisk in terms of firepower.

Looking at this list, there are so many elite choices that I would want to use. That brigade formation is pretty easy to attain for everyone.

 Zewrath wrote:
Pask can give orders to other characters, as the only person. So he can give another tank commander re-roll to hit on 1's and give that tank commander an overcharging plasmacannon setup... Decent enough, I guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, were the hell is the Vendetta? I don't see it anywhere. Don't tell me that not only did piss on our face by not applying twin linked to the LR exterminator cannon, but also removed our option of getting a gunship monster hunter with 6 LC?

Guess vendetta went into way of no model, no rules. Probably comes in FW index since they sell upgrade kit.

tneva82 wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
Pask can give orders to other characters, as the only person. So he can give another tank commander re-roll to hit on 1's and give that tank commander an overcharging plasmacannon setup... Decent enough, I guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, were the hell is the Vendetta? I don't see it anywhere. Don't tell me that not only did piss on our face by not applying twin linked to the LR exterminator cannon, but also removed our option of getting a gunship monster hunter with 6 LC?

Guess vendetta went into way of no model, no rules. Probably comes in FW index since they sell upgrade kit.

They sold it, but it is OOP now, so who knows ? Almost all events in my country disallow forgeworld, so my uprgade kit will no see much use now.


Are scions still in the elite section of Astra Militarum, or you need to take them as allies from tempestus scion faction ?

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Are scions still in the elite section of Astra Militarum, or you need to take them as allies from tempestus scion faction ?

They are troops with both tempestus and AM keywords, so either!

So if we essentially trade veterans for scions in troops section that seems fair.

 Ravajaxe wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
Pask can give orders to other characters, as the only person. So he can give another tank commander re-roll to hit on 1's and give that tank commander an overcharging plasmacannon setup... Decent enough, I guess.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, were the hell is the Vendetta? I don't see it anywhere. Don't tell me that not only did piss on our face by not applying twin linked to the LR exterminator cannon, but also removed our option of getting a gunship monster hunter with 6 LC?

Guess vendetta went into way of no model, no rules. Probably comes in FW index since they sell upgrade kit.

They sold it, but it is OOP now, so who knows ? Almost all events in my country disallow forgeworld, so my uprgade kit will no see much use now.


Are scions still in the elite section of Astra Militarum, or you need to take them as allies from tempestus scion faction ?

What a backwards attitude to have towards FW models. Decourion, anything Eldar, Posterboy Marines with several hundred points of free transports and other stupid OTT formations are waaay more toxic to the game than FW.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
2) Hellhounds have gone the way of the dodo, useless

Hum? Price went down. Kills 2 wound models fairly decently. Tougher than before. Melta gun variant is pretty nice now that melta doesn't get huge help from getting close so you can stay at 24" and bink away at enemy armour.