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 Humble Guardsman wrote:
Hate to point it out, and mistakes are natural when everyone is still learning, but I don't think Scions can rapid-fire after Deep striking. You have to deploy them more than 9" away, and I believe Scions hot-shot lasguns are 18" with a 9" rapid fire range.

Which is why I'll be swapping Scion numbers for Hot-Shot Volley Guns.

All in all though a great summary, my mate collects Tau and Nids so I'm paying keen attention to the lesson you've give.

It's the rapid fire with Plasma that peeps are getting excited about. You're correct that the hot-shots don't.

We can technically take more than 10 tanks if we had unlimited points (or just happen to be in a sufficiently high-points game), squadrons are still a thing so we can still stuff 3 vehicles into each HS slot.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
That's something like that they can allocate wounds to nearby drones or something isn't it? Yeah all that makes them tough.

Are ogyrns and bulgyrns any good now?

They still seem way overpriced for what you are getting, but they are certainly better then they used to be. What that being said, I feel like one of the strengts they had before was to pair them with a priest, which you cannot do any longer.

I've heard people saying that Pask cant give orders to himself, but I thought it specifically said that Pask CAN order Leman Russ Characters?

MaxT wrote:

 Humble Guardsman wrote:
Hate to point it out, and mistakes are natural when everyone is still learning, but I don't think Scions can rapid-fire after Deep striking. You have to deploy them more than 9" away, and I believe Scions hot-shot lasguns are 18" with a 9" rapid fire range.

Which is why I'll be swapping Scion numbers for Hot-Shot Volley Guns.

All in all though a great summary, my mate collects Tau and Nids so I'm paying keen attention to the lesson you've give.

It's the rapid fire with Plasma that peeps are getting excited about. You're correct that the hot-shots don't.

Yeah, I only rapid fired the plasma guns that turn. But they survived, thanks to cover, and moved up the next turn.

FunJohn wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
That's something like that they can allocate wounds to nearby drones or something isn't it? Yeah all that makes them tough.

Are ogyrns and bulgyrns any good now?

They still seem way overpriced for what you are getting, but they are certainly better then they used to be. What that being said, I feel like one of the strengts they had before was to pair them with a priest, which you cannot do any longer.

Why would you not be able to use priests with them? They count as Astra Militarum Infantry, don't they?

Doctoralex wrote:I've heard people saying that Pask cant give orders to himself, but I thought it specifically said that Pask CAN order Leman Russ Characters?

I also found that odd as I'm unaware of any other Cadian Tank Commanders.

Colonel Cross wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:I've heard people saying that Pask cant give orders to himself, but I thought it specifically said that Pask CAN order Leman Russ Characters?

I also found that odd as I'm unaware of any other Cadian Tank Commanders.

Pask can give orders to other Cadian Leman Russ Characters. As it says other, that doesn't include himself. Also, he can only order tank commanders who use the Cadian regimental keyword.

Which unit is the Platoon Standard available to? I can only find a reference to the Regimental Standard in the Command Squad Profile.

jaxor1983 wrote:
Which unit is the Platoon Standard available to? I can only find a reference to the Regimental Standard in the Command Squad Profile.

I think they just merged the two into that command squad entry.

If that is in fact the case, then there's another typo where they say a Platoon Standard costs 5 points.

Im thinking these keywords are starting to get kind of stupid.

jaxor1983 wrote:
Which unit is the Platoon Standard available to? I can only find a reference to the Regimental Standard in the Command Squad Profile.

Only the MT command squad seems to have the option for a Platoon standard.

Why are people complaining that platoon Commanders are elites and not HQ? In 7th edition platoon commanders were TROOPS, so this is actually a promotion.

IronJack wrote:
Why are people complaining that platoon Commanders are elites and not HQ? In 7th edition platoon commanders were TROOPS, so this is actually a promotion.

Because now they compete with their own command squads, commissars, and any specialists you'd want to take, and will be always outnumbered by their commanding officers when the opposite should be the case.

It also makes it impossible to field a realistic platoon-sized detachment.

 Formerly Wu wrote:

IronJack wrote:
Why are people complaining that platoon Commanders are elites and not HQ? In 7th edition platoon commanders were TROOPS, so this is actually a promotion.

Because now they compete with their own command squads, commissars, and any specialists you'd want to take, and will be always outnumbered by their commanding officers when the opposite should be the case.

It also makes it impossible to field a realistic platoon-sized detachment.

This. I just feel like they missed an opportunity here.

For a brigade platoon; a company commander with no platoon commander, or a lord commissar and platoon commander makes the brigade detachment a Platoon detachment.

The company-as-platoon commander fits with the lack of combined infantry squads; granting the extra order. A Company Commander doesn't have that much better of a stat-line(+1 w and ld; along with second order), so it is not like there is that much of a difference. I am, in fact, rather surprised that there even are 2 different commanders.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
I am, in fact, rather surprised that there even are 2 different commanders.

I would also have found this to be acceptable. In fact, I think this is probably how I'm going to have to fluff it until they rearrange the command structure: all commanders use the company commander statline, whatever their rank.

Honestly I would be fine with PCs being troops too since I always have plenty of troops slots with the new detachment system.

But they are commanders, so HQ really makes more sense, and being able to use them as a 20-point HQ tax would be very useful.

 ross-128 wrote:
Honestly I would be fine with PCs being troops too since I always have plenty of troops slots with the new detachment system.

But they are commanders, so HQ really makes more sense, and being able to use them as a 20-point HQ tax would be very useful.

Yep. Platoon command squads should be troops and limited to one squad per platoon commander. Problem solved. But GW wants to hold some stuff back so we have to buy the codex (similar thing with faction specific stratagems and artifacts)

Honestly, if they stuck with the old order of 7E and just added it with the versatility of Detachments, things would be way better and more unique.

FunJohn wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:


Are ogyrns and bulgyrns any good now?

They still seem way overpriced for what you are getting, but they are certainly better then they used to be. What that being said, I feel like one of the strengts they had before was to pair them with a priest, which you cannot do any longer.

Why would you not be able to use priests with them? They count as Astra Militarum Infantry, don't they?

Auxiliary is what they are under for key words I believe.

 NenkotaMoon wrote:
Auxiliary is what they are under for key words I believe.

Auxillia is their regiment keyword. They still have the Astra Militarum faction keyword.

I kinda like how Platoon and Company command squads have been merged together into one unit. Could other units be merged together? Infantry and Conscript squads, and Veteran and Special Weapon squads?

Also, how well does a Battle Cannon perform? Since it still needs to roll to hit, I don't see it being too reliable. Maybe it should take a leaf out of the Earthshaker Cannon's book and roll 2D6 and pick the highest?

I was more than underwhelmed with the performance of the battle tanks offensive performance. I feel like if you run Pask and a Tank Commander side by side to allow each other to Reroll 1s and use non cannon turret weapons, they would be useful. But, a battle cannon COULD be useful if you are willing to use a strategem to reroll your number of shots.

I was comparing Longstrike and a fellow hammerhead against a Pask and fellow tank. Both points and effectiveness go to Tau and all we have is +1 toughness over them. That's disappointing

 Formerly Wu wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
I am, in fact, rather surprised that there even are 2 different commanders.

I would also have found this to be acceptable. In fact, I think this is probably how I'm going to have to fluff it until they rearrange the command structure: all commanders use the company commander statline, whatever their rank.

Which is not at all unreasonable. It makes no real sense for a Colonel to always be a better fighter than a plucky Lieutenant, unless we are talking about a grizzled veteran regiment.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I kinda like how Platoon and Company command squads have been merged together into one unit. Could other units be merged together? Infantry and Conscript squads, and Veteran and Special Weapon squads?

Also, how well does a Battle Cannon perform? Since it still needs to roll to hit, I don't see it being too reliable. Maybe it should take a leaf out of the Earthshaker Cannon's book and roll 2D6 and pick the highest?

Absolute garbage.

I've run a hundred thousand trials Battle Cannon attacks against common targets, and the long and short of it is not to expect much. It's basically powerless against infantry units, and manages to barely exceed it's 7e numbers against big targets. Unfortunately, since monsters have more wounds now, that's also a net decrease in performance.

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:I've run a hundred thousand trials Battle Cannon attacks against common targets, and the long and short of it is not to expect much. It's basically powerless against infantry units, and manages to barely exceed it's 7e numbers against big targets. Unfortunately, since monsters have more wounds now, that's also a net decrease in performance.

Leeman Russes can tie things up in close combat now.

So there's that.

 Humble Guardsman wrote:
Which is not at all unreasonable. It makes no real sense for a Colonel to always be a better fighter than a plucky Lieutenant, unless we are talking about a grizzled veteran regiment.

Guardsmen, you have been found guilty of contravening Art. IG 3645/67k: Disrespect Towards an Officer. Any soldier who behaves himself with disrespect - in word or action - to an officer or anyone of higher rank will be shot.

Reason: Implying that a superior rank is of lower martial skill than a subordinate.

May The Emperor have mercy on your soul.

###Thought for the day: An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.###

 Traditio wrote:

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:I've run a hundred thousand trials Battle Cannon attacks against common targets, and the long and short of it is not to expect much. It's basically powerless against infantry units, and manages to barely exceed it's 7e numbers against big targets. Unfortunately, since monsters have more wounds now, that's also a net decrease in performance.

Leeman Russes can tie things up in close combat now.

So there's that.

Yeah, there's that. [sarcasm]Woo![/sarcasm]

It's not like Conscripts are a better and cheaper tarpit.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Traditio wrote:

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:I've run a hundred thousand trials Battle Cannon attacks against common targets, and the long and short of it is not to expect much. It's basically powerless against infantry units, and manages to barely exceed it's 7e numbers against big targets. Unfortunately, since monsters have more wounds now, that's also a net decrease in performance.

Leeman Russes can tie things up in close combat now.

So there's that.

Yeah, there's that. [sarcasm]Woo![/sarcasm]

It's not like Conscripts are a better and cheaper tarpit.

So, no matter the points, what is the best turret against the most targets?