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Community page has a preview of some of the AM units from their Forge World book.



The Death Riders look nifty.

The Malcador Infernus is hilarious and I love it.

I love the Death Riders with their improvements compared to Rough Riders. Ws 3+, T4, S4 mount with 2 attacks, Feel No Pain vs small arms...

Happy I bought three Squadrons and used Death Rider Commissars. Next up might be a Malcador Infernus though...

 daedalus wrote:

I'm playing at least a game tomorrow. Maybe two if time allows. Opponents wanted to do 50 power. I'd prefer points, but I'm willing to give it a shot at least once. I ran the numbers and my candidate list is 50 power and exactly 1000 points, so that's something.

List:

Spoiler:

Priest (Eviscerator)
Commissar (power fist, BP)
Company Commander
Infantry Squad (plasmagun, power sword)
Infantry Squad (plasmagun, power sword)

Priest (Eviscerator)
Commissar (power fist, BP)
Company Commander
Infantry Squad (plasmagun, power sword)
Infantry Squad (plasmagun, power sword)

Heavy Weapon Squad (3x LC)
Heavy Weapon Squad (3x LC)
5 Scions (2x plasma)
5 Scions (2x plasma)
Tempestor Prime (Plasma Pistol)
1 Basilisk
Master of Ordnance

So we wound up playing 75, not 50. I tossed in a Punisher and 4 plasma sentinels and called it close enough.

He went Eldar with a nasty list (causing some loss of faith on my part with the flexibility of the FOC). Had a wrathknight, three or four wraithlords, the Eldar sniper character, a squad of Swooping hawks, and the Swooping Hawk Phoenix Lord guy.

He rushed pretty hard, dropping my HWS immediately because I didn't realize you can deep strike turn 1. If I realized that, I would have deployed them behind everything, rather than optimizing for cover. One of the power blobs cleaned up the swooping hawks and put a little hurt on the phoenix lord. My scions deep struck behind his army and hit two of the WL, putting a few wounds on them. He pushed pretty hard with the WLs and WK, and wiped out one of the infantry squads, and that sort of set the stage for the rest of the game. I was down to a single priest by the end of the game, but he only had maybe 10 wounds left between his models. I made some missteps, but a few dice rolls probably could have swung the game the opposite way.

A few highlights:
The priests were actually surprisingly durable with their 4++ saves, particularly since there's no instant death anymore. I had to smile when one finished off the phoenix lord with his eviscerator.
PF commissar uppercutted a WL to death. Granted, it was hurting pretty badly already, but multiple damage attacks are nasty.

Takeaways and wisdom gained:
- I screwed up with the infantry and let one squad get out of the commissar bubble. I barely kept them in the priest bubble. That hurt me quite a bit..
- Since they're individual squads and not the blobs, you might get one in the charge and not the other. That hurt against the swooping hawks.
- Supercharged plasma is amazing. I was playing it conservative until I started getting walked over, and then the guy watching was like, "just supercharge. You don't have much to lose at this point." Combined with take aim, it turned out pretty well. It let me put some real damage on the wraiths. If I'd done it from the start, I might have come out on top.
- ...except on vehicles. The walkers still probably made their power back, but they didn't last very long after I started in with the plasma.
- Cover is less important than previous editions. I probably would have done better screening the HWS with models than I did putting them in cover.
- The basilisk seemed pretty effective, though kinda random. The 2d6 take-highest on the number of attacks helps quite a bit. And given its performance, I can see why people dislike the LRBT so much. The MoO was much less effective. I think his reroll ability came into effect once, but it might have been more useful against a static gunline. I don't think I'll be bringing him again, at least not with just one basilisk.
- The punisher was good. I want to try some other tanks, but I think I agree with the consensus that it's going to be the better of the LR line.

The MoO is great when you have a couple Wyverns and a Basilisk in a corner within range, wmbut with just one artillery unit, he's not really worth it.

Those Death Riders look pretty nice. They do lose the outflanking rule, although it is pretty hard to pull of a 9" charge anyway. They also get 10 lance and 20 mount attacks on the charge, which can be quite powerful. Just hide them when you deploy and they can be a nasty attack force. t4, 4+sv, 2w and fnp make them rather survivable too.

I'm impressed, they managed to really differentiate Death Riders from Rough Riders; Death Riders are essentially Cuirassiers while Rough Riders are closer to Hussars. I can see a legitimate use for both of them. I'm also extremely happy about the new keyword system because you'll be able to slot those Death Riders into any AM army with no real downsides, as Rough Riders can't receive orders anyway.

On the MoO, why not just upgrade to Harker for 12pts. You don't need to worry about range, and Harker's gun will probably do more damage over the course of a game than the one-shot artillery barrage.

On the Death Riders, they do seem cool, but I want to point out they don't have chainswords. So while they can make more hunting lance attacks, after the initial charge, they perform very similarly to regular rough riders. Still neat units, and the extra hunting lance attacks is awesome!

I used Sgt Harker in my last game. 150 power level with 2 BDEs filled out. Harker was the MVP for sure. He was right next to my Hydra, Basilisk, 6 infantry squads, and 4 HWSs. It was BRUTAL. I just used Bring it Down to reroll 1s to wound and it was quite OP. I actually felt bad.

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
On the MoO, why not just upgrade to Harker for 12pts. You don't need to worry about range, and Harker's gun will probably do more damage over the course of a game than the one-shot artillery barrage.

On the Death Riders, they do seem cool, but I want to point out they don't have chainswords. So while they can make more hunting lance attacks, after the initial charge, they perform very similarly to regular rough riders. Still neat units, and the extra hunting lance attacks is awesome!

The Death Rider mounts get 2 str4 attacks, as opposed to the Rough Rider's 1 str:user mount attack.

Ah, missed that! Thanks

Yeah, it looks like Death Riders might be one of the Guard's rising stars in 8th edition

 War Kitten wrote:
Yeah, it looks like Death Riders might be one of the Guard's rising stars in 8th edition

Well the Death Korps rising stars.

I guess with the new detachment rules you could just count your Riders as Death Riders.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was referring to. With how detachments are working out so far you can easily have your Rough Riders be Death Riders.

My Cold One riders may actually see some table time!

Finished the first draft of the cheat sheet I plan to keep in my case so I don't always have to bring my Index... or flip through it to look at special rules or characteristics. I just noticed that some of the formatting got a bit messed up opening it on another computer with Google Docs. I will be adding in abbreviated keywords later. Let me know if you notice anything crucial I am missing or if my math is wrong. Dang it, just realized I forgot some of Yarrick's rules too. Hooray for first drafts!

Just tried a new list against Tau. 150 power/3000pts. He got tabled turn 4. I have tried almost everything in our list, except for some artillery I don't have. My lists without battle tanks have proved to be the most effective. I actually feel kind of bad for my friends I've been playing ...

Colonel Cross wrote:
Just tried a new list against Tau. 150 power/3000pts. He got tabled turn 4. I have tried almost everything in our list, except for some artillery I don't have. My lists without battle tanks have proved to be the most effective. I actually feel kind of bad for my friends I've been playing ...

What kind of lists have you been running?

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

broxus wrote:


Thanks, it is a hard choice for sure. Though if it shows that a battle cannon is the same as a vanquisher in terms of damage that makes the BC a clear winner for me. The main reason is that since the BC is multiple hits it can hurt diffrent targets if needed in different roles and then switch to an anti tank role. I keep thinking the punisher would be very nasty but hate that 24" range.

Here, I'll re-post the chart I made for Pask on the Battle Tank, Vanquisher, and Demolisher:


I'll run the numbers for Pask and ordinary TC's on other tanks.

Anyone want to take a crack at what the Conqueror Cannon's stats will be? It was S7, AP4, but it looks like it was FAQ'ed in IA1:2e to be Str.8, AP3, Small Blast. I'm guess Heavy D3, Str: 8, AP: -2, D: D3

Thanks for doing this. Can you please tell me what your axis are? I am having trouble understanding what your graph is representing exactly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aenarian wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I'll be honest after getting a game of 8th in finally, I'd absolutely still pay for conscripts at 4pts per model IF they kept them absolutely the same in every other regard.

I believe that's just wishful thinking. They will definitely increase the cost, reduce their stats, make them unable to benefit from auras and finally remove them from the codex. At least according to what I've heard.


I wish it was the 23rd so the Forge World-index was released, and we could actually see how our options there stack up. Considering that my present anti-tank basically consists of 5 Rapier Laser Destroyers, Leman Russ Vanquishers and Heavy Artillery, making a functional army right now is difficult.

I seriously doubt they will severely nerf the conscripts as you state. They may change the points, but I doubt this will even be done for awhile. They are more likely going to let this play out for awhile until it is proven to be broken. This is mailnly because it will sell LOTS of models.

broxus wrote:


Thanks for doing this. Can you please tell me what your axis are? I am having trouble understanding what your graph is representing exactly.

I'm pretty sure they're percentage of trials going vertical by number of wounds horizontal.

 Otto von Bludd wrote:

Colonel Cross wrote:
Just tried a new list against Tau. 150 power/3000pts. He got tabled turn 4. I have tried almost everything in our list, except for some artillery I don't have. My lists without battle tanks have proved to be the most effective. I actually feel kind of bad for my friends I've been playing ...

What kind of lists have you been running?

They have all incorporated a unit of 50 conscripts and at least 6x squads of guard, 2x deep striking minimal squads of Scions. This list was 2 BDEs. I had more CPs than I knew what to do with.

HQ: I had 3x company commanders, Straken, Yarrick, and a Lord Commissar (I think).
Troops: Conscripts, 2x 5 man teams of scions with meltas and plasma pistols, 9x guard squads with mixes of flamers/plasmas and heavy bolters/missiles/lascannon.
Elites: Ogryns in a Chimera, Bullgryn w/mauls in a chimera, 2x Commissar w/bolters, a priest, SGT Harker (practically an auto include as of now), and I had 2x special weapon squads in a chimera BUT next time I will use 3x command squads w/a heavy flamer and 3 meltas instead.
FA: 3x scout Sentinels, 2x armored sentinels, and rough riders
HS: Basilisk, Hydra, missile launcher HWS, 2xmortars, autocannon HWS.

My buddy had an ethereal, fireblade, battle suit commander, stealth suit team, 2x crisis squads burst cannon on 1 and plasma rifles and fusion on the other, a riptide, long strike and a buddy hammerhead, 3 squads of fire warriors with drones, 2x 20 kroot squads, their little bomber aircraft, and a large unit of pathfinders w/a few rail rifles.

I used all of my troops to hold 2 OBJs and make it too dangerous to hold the OBJ in the middle. Then conscripts w/lord commissar, 3 infantry squads, and a company commander advanced to apply pressure on other OBJs with a Taurox and 3 scout sentinels in support.

All heavy hitting mech stuff ended up getting deep striked on by the Tau commander and all his battle suits on turn 1. They were intended to hit his lines while scions and rough riders hit from behind and all my advancing infantry continued their advance. My 50 conscripts ended up savaging his 40 kroot. Do not underestimate Kroot en masse, especially when in rapid fire range! But they are brittle.

His battle suit death star and my ogryns, special characters, chimeras, and special weapons squads ended up in a brutal cat and mouse. I came out on top by far, though. Meanwhile my lascannon teams nuked his broadsides and all my infantry decimated his. SGT Harker in the center of my gunline allowed me to use the order Bring It Down on all my heavy weapon squads, which made a MASSIVE difference, especially given my ability to roll horrendously.

Scions took out his hammerheads in the back field and rough riders got crushed by his Riptide.

Takeaways:
If playing against an army without dedicated assault units, we can cause SERIOUS damage with our tool kit. Straken + a priest within several inches of each other stack +2 bonus attacks. Mix that in with conscripts, ogryn of any type, and commissars and you will have a buttload of attacks. It's funny because it's so unexpected. Meanwhile everything else can just cap OBJs. IG are seriously fun to play now.

The amount of heavy weapons we can bring to the table creates problems getting within range, even for Tau.

Being able to keep mortars out of LOS is great. Not only are they points efficient and great range, the psychological impact on your opponent may be the best part. It just messes with their plan.

Hiding Lascannon in squads is probably the best way to roll with those now. Repeatedly my opponent tried to whittle those squads down while ignoring missile launchers and autocannon heavy weapons teams because they weren't nuking hood broadsides and hammerheads.

Missilesides are DEADLY. As are their little bomber they have. I thought it was powerful so I set up units so turn 1 it had no way to fly over my conscripts. That thing managed to cause 7 mortal wounds on 1 squad with its bombs alone in 1 turn. Brutal for our large units of conscripts.

What are the numbers calling the big winner for artillery, basilisk, wyvern, something else?

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
What are the numbers calling the big winner for artillery, basilisk, wyvern, something else?

Ive seen some pretty good numbers on the manticore.

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
On the MoO, why not just upgrade to Harker for 12pts. You don't need to worry about range, and Harker's gun will probably do more damage over the course of a game than the one-shot artillery barrage.

On the Death Riders, they do seem cool, but I want to point out they don't have chainswords. So while they can make more hunting lance attacks, after the initial charge, they perform very similarly to regular rough riders. Still neat units, and the extra hunting lance attacks is awesome!

Most people aren't using Catachans, so Harker's ability doesn't apply to them. At least that is how I understand the regiment keywords currently work. Harker is superior though imo, as the rerolls also don't have that 36" range limitation. Most people will probably allow you to use Harker in a non-Catachan army but in tournaments I can see them not permitting it.

 Commissar Benny wrote:

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
On the MoO, why not just upgrade to Harker for 12pts. You don't need to worry about range, and Harker's gun will probably do more damage over the course of a game than the one-shot artillery barrage.

On the Death Riders, they do seem cool, but I want to point out they don't have chainswords. So while they can make more hunting lance attacks, after the initial charge, they perform very similarly to regular rough riders. Still neat units, and the extra hunting lance attacks is awesome!

Most people aren't using Catachans, so Harker's ability doesn't apply to them. At least that is how I understand the regiment keywords currently work. Harker is superior though imo, as the rerolls also don't have that 36" range limitation. Most people will probably allow you to use Harker in a non-Catachan army but in tournaments I can see them not permitting it.

I would be surprised at anyone who didn't let you use whatever keyword you want, as long as you keep it consistent and don't try to mix things. People have always allowed counts-as on pretty much anything, even in tournaments.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
What are the numbers calling the big winner for artillery, basilisk, wyvern, something else?

The Manticore is definitely the big winner.

For only 25 points more than the Basilisk, you get an average of 2 wounds worth 4 damage on a target. Strength 10 also means it is ideal for taking out Bikes (having T5 and 2 wounds each). It's main downside is it's limit of four shots. Though most battles are concluded by then. And heck, it can still function as a fairly tough roadbump.

But the Basilisk is by no means bad. It's 2D6 take the highest makes it fairly reliable (the Manticore no doubt will need a command re-roll on it's number of shots now and then). And S9 means it will wound pretty much anything that isn't a Titan on 3's. Not to mention that you can take them in squadrons of three, letting you take more of them in a small detachment.

The Wyvern is still a solid anti-infantry artillery piece, but get's a lot of competition from the Mortar heavy weapons squads. For the same price they put out more than double the shots, which can easily make up for the re-roll to wound that the Wyvern has.

The Deathstrike.... :( nope. It only fires on a 6+ turn 2, 5+ turn 3 etc. And even then on average it does 5-6 Mortal wounds to one target, and maybe two mortal wounds to two targets near it.

After watching a few battle reports, it really seems like the heavy bolter sponsons on the leman russes might be the way to go over plasma.

They are obviously inferior weapons, but heavy bolters seem to be a really good utility weapon to have around in this edition.

More importantly, if the vehicle movies, the overcharged sponsons get hot on a 1 or a 2, which is pretty terrible (and you can't weasel your way out by re-rolling 2's). And if you aren't overcharging, then you've overpaid for the the weapons.

Additionally, looking at a battle cannon versus an executioner plasma cannon: You're looking at greater range versus better AP. AP-3 is nice and all, but it seems like an awful lot of crap that you wanna shoot a Leman Russ turret at is gonna have a at least a 5++ anyway.

 Commissar Benny wrote:

 SuspiciousSucculent wrote:
On the MoO, why not just upgrade to Harker for 12pts. You don't need to worry about range, and Harker's gun will probably do more damage over the course of a game than the one-shot artillery barrage.

On the Death Riders, they do seem cool, but I want to point out they don't have chainswords. So while they can make more hunting lance attacks, after the initial charge, they perform very similarly to regular rough riders. Still neat units, and the extra hunting lance attacks is awesome!

Most people aren't using Catachans, so Harker's ability doesn't apply to them. At least that is how I understand the regiment keywords currently work. Harker is superior though imo, as the rerolls also don't have that 36" range limitation. Most people will probably allow you to use Harker in a non-Catachan army but in tournaments I can see them not permitting it.

They don't have to be catachan models to be catachan regiment. Unless you really want pask, kell, or creed your "cadian" models can also be whatever regiment you want(like harokoni warhawks).

Similarly your catachan models could be from a cadian regiment so long as you are not taking harker or straken.

is there anything against intertwining units to force a charge against multiple units?

Kommissar Kel wrote:

They don't have to be catachan models to be catachan regiment. Unless you really want pask, kell, or creed your "cadian" models can also be whatever regiment you want(like harokoni warhawks).

Similarly your catachan models could be from a cadian regiment so long as you are not taking harker or straken.

Yeah, I built a list around having both. A Spearhead detachment with the keyword Catachan with artillery in every heavy slot, a Lord Commissar for an HQ, and Harker an an elite, and a Battalion with the keyword Cadian with Pask, a Command Tank, their friends, and my riflemen. Keyword abuse ho!

jaxor1983 wrote:After watching a few battle reports, it really seems like the heavy bolter sponsons on the leman russes might be the way to go over plasma.

They are obviously inferior weapons, but heavy bolters seem to be a really good utility weapon to have around in this edition.

More importantly, if the vehicle movies, the overcharged sponsons get hot on a 1 or a 2, which is pretty terrible (and you can't weasel your way out by re-rolling 2's). And if you aren't overcharging, then you've overpaid for the the weapons.

Additionally, looking at a battle cannon versus an executioner plasma cannon: You're looking at greater range versus better AP. AP-3 is nice and all, but it seems like an awful lot of crap that you wanna shoot a Leman Russ turret at is gonna have a at least a 5++ anyway.

I've been using Battle Tank with Multimeltas for Pask, and Punisher with Heavy Bolters for his first friend. It's been working out quite well. I'm adding in a Tank Commander Vanquisher with Multimeltas and am still deciding on the fourth one for larger lists.