8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)

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**Smotejob**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I don't think AP-1 would've been too much to ask for.

And still not been enough. That thing should be ap-2 or 3. It should go through guard armor at a minimum.

Just don't have it do other things that a demon sword would do like increase his strength.

**Homeskillet**

People, focus, lol! OK, take Crowe out of the equation. What are the thoughts on a Knight paired up with GK currently?

And by the way, Crowe is FUN and can be useful if you keep him in favorable matchups. There, I said it!

**Smotejob**

I find he is good at killing gaunts and the like. 1w t3 6+ saves units. But storm bolters do that really well already.

Imperial knights with gk are useful. I've ran with great success 3x gmndk with a warden supporting my guard gunline.

**jeffersonian000**

I’ve run a Knight Errant with my GK since 6th, have always loved how it’s a valid threat that is also a great distraction.

SJ

**Slayer-Fan123**

Smotejob wrote:
I find he is good at killing gaunts and the like. 1w t3 6+ saves units. But storm bolters do that really well already.

Imperial knights with gk are useful. I've ran with great success 3x gmndk with a warden supporting my guard gunline.

A squad of Purifiers would do a better job.

**Smotejob**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Smotejob wrote:
I find he is good at killing gaunts and the like. 1w t3 6+ saves units. But storm bolters do that really well already.

Imperial knights with gk are useful. I've ran with great success 3x gmndk with a warden supporting my guard gunline.

A squad of Purifiers would do a better job.

Which is sad and shows how bad Crowe is

**Smotejob**

I have mine magnetized to be any of the varients. What an IK does for grey knights is provide a distraction. People have to deal with a knight. If they don't my knights almost always recoup their cost. If they attack my knight, my grey knights get to provide sustained pressure.

My 1 knight I trick it out for durability. The list I've ran in the past with good success is 1 crusader supporting my gk. Having one gmndk gate up the field supporting my warden makes two big threats. Both easily rock a 3++ with the Grand Master able to get +1 to that roll. I'll have 2 more gmndk walking up the field for mid field shooting (still potent shooting at 24"). This is something I've been working on to pretty good success. It's pretty mean, but nowhere near the meanest thing out there.

Here is the Rough list
Gmndk 3x, psycannons, psilencer Sword
3x strike squad falcions

Imperial knights hawkshroud
Warden (warlord, ion shield + armor of sainted ion).
2x helvrins

Which leaves about 70pts of flex.

I like helvrins over rifle dreads. They are more mobile, more durable ( more wounds), and put out more dmg on avg and don't mind the degradation table with hawkshroud.

Sometimes I drop a gmndk for voldus to spam MW. It also frees up points. Allows for more cp battery or more firepower.

Grey knights also help to prevent mortal wounds from getting thru to my IK

**psipso**

I would like to ask you which is in your opinion the 3 best "chaff" units that we got in a 100% GK army?

I mean whit that the units with the best relation tank vs points.

**Smotejob**

psipso wrote:
I would like to ask you which is in your opinion the 3 best "chaff" units that we got in a 100% GK army?

I mean whit that the units with the best relation tank vs points.

Isn't that the question that identifies the weakness of the gk?

Best tanks for points? A buffed grandmaster in a dk can take a lot of abuse. Paladins in cover can be hard to dislodge as well.

**Homeskillet**

Jeffersonian, Smotejob, thanks for giving your thoughts, much appreciated.

Also, I'd agree that NDKGM and Paladins are solid units. I've had very good luck in smaller events with them (more so with Paladins escorted by Voldus).

**psipso**

Smotejob wrote:
psipso wrote:
I would like to ask you which is in your opinion the 3 best "chaff" units that we got in a 100% GK army?

I mean whit that the units with the best relation tank vs points.

Isn't that the question that identifies the weakness of the gk?

Indeed. Few units, expensive and they die that easy.

In my case, I've got the problem that I'm running an Air Wing Detachment with Draigo gaiting behind the flyers wall to give reroll's. The problem is that this leaves me with really few units on the table hence easily to be tabled at turn 1 and with really few options to reliable hold objectives in the following turns.

Smotejob wrote:

Best tanks for points? A buffed grandmaster in a dk can take a lot of abuse. Paladins in cover can be hard to dislodge as well.

Homeskillet wrote:

Also, I'd agree that NDKGM and Paladins are solid units. I've had very good luck in smaller events with them (more so with Paladins escorted by Voldus).

mmm.. I guess that you all right there, Paladins can hide in cover. Could it be that to tank is what Paladins do best in our army and maybe their main role? I've tried the GMDK but the problem that I've run into is that it ate CP as there is no tomorrow and then I use to end in turn 3 without CP and the GMDK easily dying to anti-elite infantry fire or -1 mas dakka. To me, till now, it has worked better as a hammer unit rather than an anvil one. Maybe am I doing something wrong?

**Smotejob**

Paladins can take his pretty well, but do need sanctuary for those ap weapons out there. They can make hard to move units. They are very versatile and are good at holding a line with proper support.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Paladins are the epitome of true mediocrity to almost being a bad unit. That said they're one of the only Terminator units that works somewhat.

**ragnorack1**

Might get in a bit trouble as I'm going to be asking a similar question in other tactics threads over the next couple of days.
I'm looking at changing up my current guard/dkok army into an inquisitorial task force of 1350 of guard and 650pt of sister, grey knights and deathwatch that can be swapped out to keep the army feeling fresh while having a cohesive theme for display.
Any suggestions of a good general purpose 650pts of Grey knights?
To keep the post short here's a brief overview of the 2 ideas I've had:

A patrol of 1 GMDK with teleporter, psilencer and psycanon, 10 man strike squad with falchions (justicar has a hammer), and a paladin ancient. Considering making GMDK a warlord for first in the fray at the expense of losing an order for my guardsmen in the hope of better odds of making that long charge when they deep strike, if I do the I'll slap fury of deimos on the ancient for the free relic.
Pros: nice self contained beta-strike, large strike squad is efficient for psybolt ammo which I want to make a lot of use of along with psychic onslaught, hits hard.
Cons: If in the likely scenario they don't make the charge they are sitting ducks (even then not great with falling back rules this edition), a lot points to have in reserve.

An outrider of a the GMDK above without the teleporter (will rely on gate to get up field) 3 minimum squads of interceptors
Pros: a few more bodies and MSU for slightly better durability, great movement, presence on board first turn.
Cons: Less cost effective for using stratagems,

For reference the guard force is a bit weird, with 2 squads of DKOK engineers with priests in valks, 3 minmum squads of grenadiers with plasma in centaurs, and 3 10 man grenadier squads baby sitting a marshal and lord commissar. Plays a bit like a poor mans dark eldar (HERESY!) but I think it suits the theme of inquisitorial special forces.

**Smotejob**

I've used patrols of a gmndk with 10 strikes with my guard. Psybolt the 10 strikes and 2++ the GM (3++ with +1 to roll). Strikes having 40 str 5 ap-1 shots is actually really good and effective against most targets... Even more so near the GM. This is a nice little force to plug into a gun line

I like that option more.

I've personally fallen out of love with interceptors. Don't get me wrong... They are good and I still have a place for them in some of my lists.. but they are just that much more expensive without any more durability.

**ragnorack1**

Smotejob wrote:
I've used patrols of a gmndk with 10 strikes with my guard. Psybolt the 10 strikes and 2++ the GM (3++ with +1 to roll). Strikes having 40 str 5 ap-1 shots is actually really good and effective against most targets... Even more so near the GM. This is a nice little force to plug into a gun line

I like that option more.

I've personally fallen out of love with interceptors. Don't get me wrong... They are good and I still have a place for them in some of my lists.. but they are just that much more expensive without any more durability.

Nice to hear you find that detachment effective, I'm definitely tending towards that choice, was just discouraged by the recent reserves changes. But as you say its hard to say no to deeps tricking in 40 heavy bolter shots.

**CREEEEEEEEED**

Got absolutely thrashed by necrons today at 1000 points, he was running a load of immortals with tesla and 6 destroyers. It might have gone my way if the destroyers hadn't suddenly ressurected 3 of theimselves after the last one ran off. Once they did though it was over, and I think I only ended up killing a few immortals due to reanimation protocols. I just had absolutely no answer, they move fast, they mow down my expensive dudes and they get back up when they die. Absolutely creamed some tau though (whilst misinterpreting vortex to mean a model of your choosing within 12" rather than nearest but not too much effect) so you win some you loose some.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Immortals are actually good so that might be your problem. Easily one of my favorite troop choices in the game, even without transports and a subpar codex.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, if you can't kill a full squad that's your own fault. Focus fire literally takes away the main gimmick of the army.

**Smotejob**

Destroyers rip up space Marines and at 1k it can get tricky to pull down a full squads in a turn. Especially if well bubble wrapped. Necrons are good in small point games and get worse as the points go up. 1k is right around the highest point levels they are good.

**CREEEEEEEEED**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
That said, if you can't kill a full squad that's your own fault. Focus fire literally takes away the main gimmick of the army.

With 17 models on the board, kinda difficult. It was a bad matchup, no need to be like that about it.

**CREEEEEEEEED**

Revised list coming to 999 points:

HQ: Voldus

Troops: 5 Strikes with a psilencer

Elites: 5 Paladins with a psilencer

Fast attack: 5 Interceptors with a psilencer

Transport: Rhino with a storm bolter

Flyer: Stormhawk Interceptor with twin AC, laztalon and typhoon missile launcher

**Slayer-Fan123**

I'm not sure Voldus is really necessary in that small of a game. A regular Captain would be cheaper and you could give him the Sacrifice for more durability.

**wuestenfux**

Want to play GK, but not sure how. Below is my first attempt. Any hints to improve welcome.

New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [135 PL, 1991pts]
Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Grey Knights) [135 PL, 1991pts]

HQ [21 PL, 397pts]

Librarian [9 PL, 157pts]
Selections: Fury of Deimos, Nemesis Warding Stave, Sanctuary

Lord Kaldor Draigo [12 PL, 240pts]
Selections: * No Psychic Power Selected *, 1. Legendary Fighter, Gate of Infinity, Warlord

Troops [42 PL, 453pts]

Strike Squad [14 PL, 151pts]
Selections: Gate of Infinity
Grey Knight (Psycannon) [33pts]
Selections: Psycannon [14pts]
4x Grey Knight (Sword) [84pts]
Selections: 4x Storm Bolter [8pts]
Grey Knight Justicar [34pts]
Selections: Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts], Storm bolter [2pts]

Strike Squad [14 PL, 151pts]
Selections: Hammerhand
Grey Knight (Psycannon) [33pts]
Selections: Psycannon [14pts]
4x Grey Knight (Sword) [84pts]
Selections: 4x Storm Bolter [8pts]
Grey Knight Justicar [34pts]
Selections: Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts], Storm bolter [2pts]

Strike Squad [14 PL, 151pts]
Selections: Hammerhand
Grey Knight (Psycannon) [33pts]
Selections: Psycannon [14pts]
4x Grey Knight (Sword) [84pts]
Selections: 4x Storm Bolter [8pts]
Grey Knight Justicar [34pts]
Selections: Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts], Storm bolter [2pts]

Elites [8 PL, 153pts]

Dreadnought [8 PL, 153pts]
Selections: Astral Aim, Twin Autocannon [33pts], Twin Autocannon [33pts]

Fast Attack [32 PL, 350pts]

Interceptor Squad [16 PL, 175pts]
Selections: Gate of Infinity
Grey Knight (Incinerator) [37pts]
Selections: Incinerator [14pts]
4x Interceptor (Sword) [100pts]
Selections: 4x Storm Bolter [8pts]
Interceptor Justicar [38pts]
Selections: Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts], Storm bolter [2pts]

Interceptor Squad [16 PL, 175pts]
Selections: Hammerhand
Grey Knight (Incinerator) [37pts]
Selections: Incinerator [14pts]
4x Interceptor (Sword) [100pts]
Selections: 4x Storm Bolter [8pts]
Interceptor Justicar [38pts]
Selections: Nemesis Daemon Hammer [13pts], Storm bolter [2pts]

Heavy Support [22 PL, 410pts]

Nemesis Dreadknight [11 PL, 205pts]
Selections: Dreadfist [10pts], Dreadfist [25pts], Dreadknight teleporter [10pts], Gate of Infinity, Heavy Psycannon [30pts]

Nemesis Dreadknight [11 PL, 205pts]
Selections: Dreadfist [10pts], Dreadfist [25pts], Dreadknight teleporter [10pts], Hammerhand, Heavy Psycannon [30pts]

Dedicated Transport [10 PL, 228pts]

Razorback [5 PL, 114pts]
Selections: Twin Assault Cannon [44pts]

Razorback [5 PL, 114pts]
Selections: Twin Assault Cannon [44pts]

Created with BattleScribe

**Smotejob**

Strike squads/ interceptors should use falcions over swords.

The benefits of Librarians are lost in an army of all psykers. Grand masters or gmndk is the way to go. Draigo is good, make sure he is giving plenty of rerolls

Regular dreadknights are meh, they hit on 4+ on the move and with only 5++ they die way to easy.. GMNDK get much more milage.

I like assault cannons on razorbacks... Even if they are a bit expensive for what they do. Draigo makes them much more accurate and dangerous.

**Homeskillet**

CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Revised list coming to 999 points:

HQ: Voldus

Troops: 5 Strikes with a psilencer

Elites: 5 Paladins with a psilencer

Fast attack: 5 Interceptors with a psilencer

Transport: Rhino with a storm bolter

Flyer: Stormhawk Interceptor with twin AC, laztalon and typhoon missile launcher

Solid units. Is this just a patrol? If so, the lack of CP will hurt, but otherwise I think the units pair well.

**CREEEEEEEEED**

Homeskillet wrote:
Solid units. Is this just a patrol? If so, the lack of CP will hurt, but otherwise I think the units pair well.

Yeah it's a patrol. I swapped out Voldus and the rhino for a GM in NDK. Sadly he can't take the 5+ FNP either but he does come with a gatling psilencer which is pretty cool.

**wuestenfux**

Smotejob wrote:
Strike squads/ interceptors should use falcions over swords.

The benefits of Librarians are lost in an army of all psykers. Grand masters or gmndk is the way to go. Draigo is good, make sure he is giving plenty of rerolls

Regular dreadknights are meh, they hit on 4+ on the move and with only 5++ they die way to easy.. GMNDK get much more milage.

I like assault cannons on razorbacks... Even if they are a bit expensive for what they do. Draigo makes them much more accurate and dangerous.

Well, falcions are good but my GKS squads are modeled with swords atm.
Indeed, Librarians are not really required with all those psykers. Regular NDKs are not good but cheaper than the GMNDKs. I'd like to run three GMNDKs but they are very expensive and possibly not worth the pts.

**Smotejob**

Nothing in the grey knights codex is points efficient.. but dreadknights piloted by a grandmaster get more milage. I've ran just one plenty of times, and it is be a giant pain in the butt to an opponent. T6, 12w, 3++ is VERY tough to bring down... And that's when they are worth points.

Take my most recent game against a guard Leman russ tank company. My opponent lined up his tanks on the back of the board knowing I have a fairly aggressive list. I goi'd my gmndk then buffed him on one of his flanks and had an imperial knight with a 2+ 3++ just barreling down the center of the board. He now had to decide which threat to shoot and fail killing. He shoots at my gmndk with his entire army and does 1 wound. It also forced him to move tanks in response to my gmndk in my favor.

By turn two I was locking up his tanks in cc and lost a razorback and a strike squad. By turn 5 all his tanks were gone and I was just going through clean up duty.

That gmndk took out a taurox prime, a Leman Russ Commander, and a squad of scions by himself.

These two threats combined were too much and the rest of my army had free reign. Don't discount a buffed ndk piloted by a GM.

**jeffersonian000**

Doesn’t GoI de-buff units, now?

SJ

**tneva82**

jeffersonian000 wrote:
Doesn’t GoI de-buff units, now?

SJ

Presumably refering to:

Q: If you use a Stratagem to remove a model from the battlefeld
and set it up again, does the model retain any persistent effects
(for example, a bonus to one of its characteristics as a result of
an ability)?
A: No

In typical GW style this could be read yes but also could read since the whole question deals with just strategem it doesn't cover non-strategem things and as far as I know GoI is spell and not strategem. I would be willing to bet there are people playing doesn't apply to spells and people playing applies to spells.

GW should go for more than yes/no answers and cover also other things with similar effects.