Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With legends out, we have a good price now for the rifleman dread again. And if we end up with doctrines, devastator doctrine may really be good for them. Put it on a venerable platform for accurate and reasonably priced 8x str 7 ap-2 2d shots. Interesting backline shooting unit

Where can I look at the Legends rules?
EDIT: Nvm I found it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
I’ve been trying out normal barebones Dreadknights with swords and they do pretty well for 120 points. They’re as durable as a grandmaster to anything but the heaviest weapons and perform nearly the same with rerolls. Instead of 3 gmndk’s I’m doing 2 dreads supported by 1 grandmaster, and it’s saving a ton of points. Also lets me take one purgation squad for an easy heavy support detachment.

Dreadknights are fine with either just fists or Sword, and just equipped with a Incinerator. Keep them as cheap as possible.

Disagree - load them up. Never fists...5 points for d6 damage over d3? No contest. You will be hard pressed to match the DK firepower for literally any weapon in the GK arsenal - so might as well take the HPC and Psilencer. Incinerator is trash too. Just pay 5 more points for the HPC. H-Psilencer is gold at 20 points - take them on every platform that can take them.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
I’ve been trying out normal barebones Dreadknights with swords and they do pretty well for 120 points. They’re as durable as a grandmaster to anything but the heaviest weapons and perform nearly the same with rerolls. Instead of 3 gmndk’s I’m doing 2 dreads supported by 1 grandmaster, and it’s saving a ton of points. Also lets me take one purgation squad for an easy heavy support detachment.

Dreadknights are fine with either just fists or Sword, and just equipped with a Incinerator. Keep them as cheap as possible.

Disagree - load them up. Never fists...5 points for d6 damage over d3? No contest. You will be hard pressed to match the DK firepower for literally any weapon in the GK arsenal - so might as well take the HPC and Psilencer. Incinerator is trash too. Just pay 5 more points for the HPC. H-Psilencer is gold at 20 points - take them on every platform that can take them.

Not for the regular Dreadknight.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
I’ve been trying out normal barebones Dreadknights with swords and they do pretty well for 120 points. They’re as durable as a grandmaster to anything but the heaviest weapons and perform nearly the same with rerolls. Instead of 3 gmndk’s I’m doing 2 dreads supported by 1 grandmaster, and it’s saving a ton of points. Also lets me take one purgation squad for an easy heavy support detachment.

Dreadknights are fine with either just fists or Sword, and just equipped with a Incinerator. Keep them as cheap as possible.

Disagree - load them up. Never fists...5 points for d6 damage over d3? No contest. You will be hard pressed to match the DK firepower for literally any weapon in the GK arsenal - so might as well take the HPC and Psilencer. Incinerator is trash too. Just pay 5 more points for the HPC. H-Psilencer is gold at 20 points - take them on every platform that can take them.

Not for the regular Dreadknight.

Yup reg dreadknights BS drops too low. Incinerators may be okay??

But I agree with the GMNDK, give them there two guns and a sword/hammer.

Remember with the hammer that you still have a fist, so when swinging at small stuff with 1w, you can still punch.

H.psycannon and h.psilencer are still the go to guns.

I've seen people run them naked and cheap. In fact the Australian open was won by a gk list with a GMNDK with no guns.

Ok, I think an ordo malleus inqy or Coteaz has a permanent place in my lists. So much value added. Either as another source for mortal wounds or to deny overwatch. Played against some Tau and stopping a riptide from over watch very much so turned the game today. Granted the tau were a little aggressive, it set up some less painful charges for me. Mass strength 5 is still scary

I think that if GK get access to Doctrines, the psybolt and psychic onslaught stratagems need to be reduced to 1 cp each since the AP buff of the Doctrines doesn't stack with other AP buffs. Imagine having the right doctrines activated and contemplating using a buff strat and it only increasing your weapons by 1 strength for TWO CP. Please GW.

 _SeeD_ wrote:
I think that if GK get access to Doctrines, the psybolt and psychic onslaught stratagems need to be reduced to 1 cp each since the AP buff of the Doctrines doesn't stack with other AP buffs. Imagine having the right doctrines activated and contemplating using a buff strat and it only increasing your weapons by 1 strength for TWO CP. Please GW.

Well, I never used these two doctrines since they are too expensive, 2 cp each.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 _SeeD_ wrote:
I think that if GK get access to Doctrines, the psybolt and psychic onslaught stratagems need to be reduced to 1 cp each since the AP buff of the Doctrines doesn't stack with other AP buffs. Imagine having the right doctrines activated and contemplating using a buff strat and it only increasing your weapons by 1 strength for TWO CP. Please GW.

Well, I never used these two doctrines since they are too expensive, 2 cp each.

Exactly?

From the GW website this morning:

The Grey Knights get plenty of new tricks too, including a particularly powerful new ability called Masters of the Warp, which rewards you for taking a dedicated army of Grey Knights, channelling a specific aspect of the warp to provide an army-wide bonus.

Theories?

To me it sounds like our version of doctrines

Jep think so

Our version of everything else is terrible, so not optimistic.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Our version of everything else is terrible, so not optimistic.

While we should wait for the whole reveal, this is likely the correct belief to have.

 Smotejob wrote:
From the GW website this morning:

The Grey Knights get plenty of new tricks too, including a particularly powerful new ability called Masters of the Warp, which rewards you for taking a dedicated army of Grey Knights, channelling a specific aspect of the warp to provide an army-wide bonus.[i]

Theories?

To me it sounds like our version of doctrines

Doesnt sound like doctrines more like:

1. Adepta Sororitas' Sacred Rites or
2. Ad Mech's Canticles of the Omissiah

So six choices of arm-wide buffs (related to warp aspects) if it fits the pattern.

yes, I belive that GK are all getting doctrines, seems all space marines are getting doctrines,

that being said, I am happy with that, I play an all infantry greyknight list, and prior to SM2.0, it has performed quite well, zero NDK, zero tanks, zero dreads, just 100% foot sloggin infantry (some do teleport down on round 2)
65 stormbolters in tactical doctrine while in rapidfire range is quite scary

so, my theories on the bonus if you take 100% pure GK list

1) possibly universal 5++ (same as the stratagem that grants 5++ or +1 to invul save if already have one, similar to adeptus custodes )
2) possibly that shrouding ability they had previously, -1 to hit them at range (similar to raven guard )
3) possibly 1st turn teleport strikes (similar to the new drop pod rule )
4) improved psy abilities in the psy phase, such as: improved smites, or full power smites, or targeted smites, or removal of the "once per phase" rule for psy powers
5) any combination of the above or all of the above

also, I belive that in true GW fashion, it will go one of two ways.. 1) totally useless and no real help to greyknights, or 2) totally over powered back to the matt ward era of greyknights (just to sell all those GK boxes gathering dust in the wharehouses )

Want a psyche army and I'm doubting between GK and TS, do you think this change will worth going GK?

This is the most promising update so far. Seeing what they did for the other matinee chapters, this has some real potential. I can see the GK both coming up in competitive strength, playability, and making them feel unique

HOPE


Automatically Appended Next Post:
IS


Automatically Appended Next Post:
THE


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FIRST


Automatically Appended Next Post:
STEP


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ON


Automatically Appended Next Post:
THE


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ROAD


Automatically Appended Next Post:
TO


Automatically Appended Next Post:
DISAPPOINTMENT

Lol. Good use of the auto appended next post.

Though in this case, I think our suffering has led to perseverance, that perseverance has built our character, and it has given us hope, and I don't think we will be disappointed

Gunrunner1775 wrote:
yes, I belive that GK are all getting doctrines, seems all space marines are getting doctrines,

that being said, I am happy with that, I play an all infantry greyknight list, and prior to SM2.0, it has performed quite well, zero NDK, zero tanks, zero dreads, just 100% foot sloggin infantry (some do teleport down on round 2)
65 stormbolters in tactical doctrine while in rapidfire range is quite scary

so, my theories on the bonus if you take 100% pure GK list

1) possibly universal 5++ (same as the stratagem that grants 5++ or +1 to invul save if already have one, similar to adeptus custodes )
2) possibly that shrouding ability they had previously, -1 to hit them at range (similar to raven guard )
3) possibly 1st turn teleport strikes (similar to the new drop pod rule )
4) improved psy abilities in the psy phase, such as: improved smites, or full power smites, or targeted smites, or removal of the "once per phase" rule for psy powers
5) any combination of the above or all of the above

also, I belive that in true GW fashion, it will go one of two ways.. 1) totally useless and no real help to greyknights, or 2) totally over powered back to the matt ward era of greyknights (just to sell all those GK boxes gathering dust in the wharehouses )

Tactical doctrine on GK?

 Jancoran wrote:

Gunrunner1775 wrote:
yes, I belive that GK are all getting doctrines, seems all space marines are getting doctrines,

that being said, I am happy with that, I play an all infantry greyknight list, and prior to SM2.0, it has performed quite well, zero NDK, zero tanks, zero dreads, just 100% foot sloggin infantry (some do teleport down on round 2)
65 stormbolters in tactical doctrine while in rapidfire range is quite scary

so, my theories on the bonus if you take 100% pure GK list

1) possibly universal 5++ (same as the stratagem that grants 5++ or +1 to invul save if already have one, similar to adeptus custodes )
2) possibly that shrouding ability they had previously, -1 to hit them at range (similar to raven guard )
3) possibly 1st turn teleport strikes (similar to the new drop pod rule )
4) improved psy abilities in the psy phase, such as: improved smites, or full power smites, or targeted smites, or removal of the "once per phase" rule for psy powers
5) any combination of the above or all of the above

also, I belive that in true GW fashion, it will go one of two ways.. 1) totally useless and no real help to greyknights, or 2) totally over powered back to the matt ward era of greyknights (just to sell all those GK boxes gathering dust in the wharehouses )

Tactical doctrine on GK?

It would be useful. That would really up the damage output of pretty much the entire army on turn 2. Could line up for some nice beta strikes.

Could a 6x dreadknights army work?
3x GMNDK kitted out
3x dk with incinerators and fists?

Lots of T6 2+ wounds there that will threaten most things in cc

That still violates Ro3, no? Still the same profile.

As for new GK tricks, I believe it will be an army wide buff of either an extra 13pts per model, or Troops now count as Ro3. Also, you are only allowed to melee on turns 2, 4, and 5.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
That still violates Ro3, no? Still the same profile.

Smotejob is saying 6 total dreadknights, composed of 3 regular dreadknights and 3 grandmasters in dreadknights. Those are two separate datasheets.

wisetiger7 wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
That still violates Ro3, no? Still the same profile.

Smotejob is saying 6 total dreadknights, composed of 3 regular dreadknights and 3 grandmasters in dreadknights. Those are two separate datasheets.

Correct... 3x Grand Master dreadknights 3x regular dreadknights. Does not violate role of 3.

 Smotejob wrote:

wisetiger7 wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
That still violates Ro3, no? Still the same profile.

Smotejob is saying 6 total dreadknights, composed of 3 regular dreadknights and 3 grandmasters in dreadknights. Those are two separate datasheets.

Correct... 3x Grand Master dreadknights 3x regular dreadknights. Does not violate role of 3.

For the same reason three Shield Commanders doesn't interfere with three of them on Jetbikes: GW doesn't really understand their own Rule Of Three.

I expected too much, for GW rules to make sense. Thank you for the correction.

 Smotejob wrote:
Could a 6x dreadknights army work?
3x GMNDK kitted out
3x dk with incinerators and fists?

Lots of T6 2+ wounds there that will threaten most things in cc

It's a crappy answer, but only psychic awakening will tell. Dreadknight's main issue is that they are vehicles.

 greyknight12 wrote:

 Smotejob wrote:
Could a 6x dreadknights army work?
3x GMNDK kitted out
3x dk with incinerators and fists?

Lots of T6 2+ wounds there that will threaten most things in cc

It's a crappy answer, but only psychic awakening will tell. Dreadknight's main issue is that they are vehicles.

NDK's are not hard to remove even with a 3++ inv. save.

What about 6 tho? Threat saturation, add in a lot of power armor landing too, might be a decent beta strike.

Or maybe adding a 2gmndk with 3 ndk to a guard gunline.

Could work?