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Yeah, GK looks cool and their fluff is great, that's why I picked them up (well that and having gotten nearly 2000 points for less than 90 bucks 2nd hand), still I only won a single game this edition and it gets tiresome and frustrating getting always. owned
TheMostWize wrote: I just built a list around GK and Scions. But I threw in an imperial knight. I'm my experience paladins are insanely resilient and with the threat of a knight it takes pressure off them.
Can you share that list? I have been interested in how a knight can fit a GK army
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/27 09:57:15
I haven't used the Raven for a while, but I'm interested to see how it will do vs screens, since that's where I'm in trouble lately. T1 clear the screens, T2 do the Deep Strike.
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
Hey everyone, been following the advice posted and built an army revolving around the below, played 8 games now in matched play, random missions, with beta rules and looking for advice on optimizing this list/being less all in on my first turn;
Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [285pts]: 4: First to the Fray, Dreadfist, Dreadknight teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword, Sanctuary, Warlord
Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight [285pts]: Dreadfist, Dreadknight teleporter, Gatling Psilencer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword, Vortex of Doom
I have been bumping this up to 1500, 1750 and 2000 with either assasins or a Inquisition supreme command detachment (only spare models). Both of these are fine in say a casual game but they have been useless against people who know what they are doing.
To help out with my question, play very experienced players so could be me being a bad pilot admittedly and I face heavy screening in nearly every game I face. Played Eldar (lost), DG (loss) , Ad Mech (loss), SW (won), Tau (won x2), Renegades SM (won), BT (recent loss). Think I got TS and Tyranids as other players in group.
Who could I ally with to help the above list? Or which GK units can I buy/build next to help against big MC, Armor, supporting my alpha strike if I can get them in. Don't mind FW or Gw
Totally understand my list won't guarantee me wins but right now feel like the list isn't helping the cause and I'm playing hard mode every game.
I'm relatively new to the game and haven't played more than 10 games with GK but...
I would switch out the termies for another strike squad and interceptors (you'll probably need to squeeze a couple of points out of your other units).
If you are going up points then you may want to look at Draigo. He gives you a bubble of reroll any hit and he hits like a train.
I'm afraid that we don't have any real answers to parking lots of vehicles if you want to stay mono codex. The best I've found is either a ven dread with twin lascannons for ~220 or a Storm Talon with twin Assault and twin lascannons for ~200.
So anyone here looking forward for the Forgebane box? I get the feeling they complement GK nicely and will make good allies. The Skittari rangers have high AP long range weapons that allows for them to sit on the backfield, and the mini knight description on the website makes them feel like tank hunters, a department that GK is lacking.
GuardStrider wrote: So anyone here looking forward for the Forgebane box? I get the feeling they complement GK nicely and will make good allies. The Skittari rangers have high AP long range weapons that allows for them to sit on the backfield, and the mini knight description on the website makes them feel like tank hunters, a department that GK is lacking.
I've been wanting admech for quite some time (both for GK allies and a stand alone army) and necrons are probably my favorite army but I've never bought any, so yes. I am super excited for this box.
So I was playing around trying to think of some of the weirdest silliest armies that we GK could build and I came up with a couple ideas that I really want to try. 2 Supreme Command Detachments filled with 3 GMDKs a piece, or 2 Spearhead detachment both headed by a GMDK and filled with 3 NDKs. Would these armies even stand a chance? Even in a non competitive setting? I've been going back and forth on their viability.
There is no such thing as a plea of innocence in my court. A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty. - Lord Inquisitor Fyodor Karamazov
In an Imperium of a million worlds, what is the death of one world in the cause of purity?~Inquisition credo
He who allows the alien to live, shares its crime of existence. ~Inquisitor Apollyon
I would think that the Supreme choice due to having more of what are considered our best unit. I would think that 4 GMDKs may have a better survival rate than 6 DKs because of the 4++ the GM's have.
Also shouldn't you have some points left over for other units or are they eaten up with weapon/equipment choices?
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I would think that the Supreme choice due to having more of what are considered our best unit. I would think that 4 GMDKs may have a better survival rate than 6 DKs because of the 4++ the GM's have.
Also shouldn't you have some points left over for other units or are they eaten up with weapon/equipment choices?
With greatswords, psycannons psilencers on everyone and homers on half you come to 1680 points. Interestingly you could actually add a 7th GMDK and you'd be at 1955.
There is no such thing as a plea of innocence in my court. A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty. - Lord Inquisitor Fyodor Karamazov
In an Imperium of a million worlds, what is the death of one world in the cause of purity?~Inquisition credo
He who allows the alien to live, shares its crime of existence. ~Inquisitor Apollyon
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Then I'd pick the 7 GMDKs there's no question in my mind it would be better than having only 2 GMDKS and 6 DKs.
Yeah 7 GMDKs is absolutely the better deal there. I just wonder if it would be at all effective.
There is no such thing as a plea of innocence in my court. A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty. - Lord Inquisitor Fyodor Karamazov
In an Imperium of a million worlds, what is the death of one world in the cause of purity?~Inquisition credo
He who allows the alien to live, shares its crime of existence. ~Inquisitor Apollyon
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Then I'd pick the 7 GMDKs there's no question in my mind it would be better than having only 2 GMDKS and 6 DKs.
Yeah 7 GMDKs is absolutely the better deal there. I just wonder if it would be at all effective.
It puts out 84 S4 D3 shots and 42 S7 AP-1 D2 shots at BS2, and is pretty good at CC. The problem is that you don’t have a lot of CP, so most will have a 4++, which still isn’t bad. I would throw hammers on a couple though. The list would struggle with morale-immune hordes, and from a lack of mobility (you can only gate one a turn), which may not be an issue depending on your game format. It would play similarly to a Custodes bike army, but without “fly” or the additional 6” of move a turn.
I have 5 DK models though so if I try it at a lower points value I’ll let you know.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Then I'd pick the 7 GMDKs there's no question in my mind it would be better than having only 2 GMDKS and 6 DKs.
Yeah 7 GMDKs is absolutely the better deal there. I just wonder if it would be at all effective.
It puts out 84 S4 D3 shots and 42 S7 AP-1 D2 shots at BS2, and is pretty good at CC. The problem is that you don’t have a lot of CP, so most will have a 4++, which still isn’t bad. I would throw hammers on a couple though. The list would struggle with morale-immune hordes, and from a lack of mobility (you can only gate one a turn), which may not be an issue depending on your game format. It would play similarly to a Custodes bike army, but without “fly” or the additional 6” of move a turn.
I have 5 DK models though so if I try it at a lower points value I’ll let you know.
It sounds doable on paper. I have 3, and I'm not a fan of how two turned out so I'm gonna get 2 more. I may just go all in and get the last 2 extra and test it out as well. Thanks for the input!
There is no such thing as a plea of innocence in my court. A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty. - Lord Inquisitor Fyodor Karamazov
In an Imperium of a million worlds, what is the death of one world in the cause of purity?~Inquisition credo
He who allows the alien to live, shares its crime of existence. ~Inquisitor Apollyon
Leo_the_Rat wrote: Then I'd pick the 7 GMDKs there's no question in my mind it would be better than having only 2 GMDKS and 6 DKs.
Yeah 7 GMDKs is absolutely the better deal there. I just wonder if it would be at all effective.
It would play similarly to a Custodes bike army, but without “fly” or the additional 6” of move a turn.
These two limitations means that's it's probably going to be much worse. GMDKs are good, but they need support. SC Bikers, otoh, don't need support.
You could, for 1864, get ELEVEN SC Bikers, all with Misericordia, 7 Hurribolts and 4 Salvos. I feel like I know who's gonna win that matchup....
Mathhammer:
Two SCBs (no mis) will do 14 wounds to a GMDK on the charge. So on T1, that's 3-4 GMDKs dead, with assaults and shooting.
One GMDK shooting will give 6 wounds to a SC, not even enough to kill one. Bleugh.
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
Elric Greywolf wrote: These two limitations means that's it's probably going to be much worse. GMDKs are good, but they need support. SC Bikers, otoh, don't need support.
You could, for 1864, get ELEVEN SC Bikers, all with Misericordia, 7 Hurribolts and 4 Salvos. I feel like I know who's gonna win that matchup....
Mathhammer:
Two SCBs (no mis) will do 14 wounds to a GMDK on the charge. So on T1, that's 3-4 GMDKs dead, with assaults and shooting.
One GMDK shooting will give 6 wounds to a SC, not even enough to kill one. Bleugh.
True, but I take issue with “T1”: Bikes move 14”, GK guns are 24”. Even starting at 24.5”, the bikes aren’t all going to make their 10” charge; the DKs will get one turn of shooting in. Also, you pointed out that 2 bikes kill a dreadknight, but a dreadknight *only* does 6 wounds to a 7 wound model. By the same metrics you gave the bikes, 2 dreadknights do 12 wounds to SCB, or 1.7 dead...meaning 6 bike captains die to 7 GMDKs shooting, plus there’s a potential for 3-4 mortal wounds from smite to start with. With beta character rules, they will likely shoot ones with 3++.
And in CC, there is a chance the DKs will get the charge coming in from deepstrike: 1 w/sword=5.7 wounds avg, hammer does 5 minimum but potentially higher.
I agree that shield captains will probably win if objective are a factor, and fly is a game changer but I think in this match up the GMDKs have a reasonable chance of coming out on top.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Yeah, just waiting on the new big FAQ before I buy some GMNDKs and infantry squads (if they go up to 5 pts no biggie but if soup gets punished somehow I don't want to throw away a couple hundred bucks)
Anyone think GMDKs might get a 0-1 per detachment limit like Tau Commanders are getting?
SJ
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
jeffersonian000 wrote: Anyone think GMDKs might get a 0-1 per detachment limit like Tau Commanders are getting?
SJ
I've yet to hear any complaints about GMDK spam. In fact the only complaints I've heard about GK in general are from GK players.
There is no such thing as a plea of innocence in my court. A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty. - Lord Inquisitor Fyodor Karamazov
In an Imperium of a million worlds, what is the death of one world in the cause of purity?~Inquisition credo
He who allows the alien to live, shares its crime of existence. ~Inquisitor Apollyon
Necrons have like a sidegrade version of Vortex of Doom. I honestly think it is better.
Pick a visible enemy unit within 24 inches and roll a D6... On a 4+ the chosen unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Then roll a D6 for every other enemy unit that is within 3 inches of the chosen enemy UNIT. On a 4+ they also suffer a mortal wound.
The biggest differences is 2 things.
1. GK can get up to D6 mortal wounds on the primary target and the surrounding targets, Necrons are stuck to D3 and 1 on the surrounding targets.
2. Necrons have the ability to actually pick their target and have a 24 inch range. Further their ability hurts the surroundings units based of the chosen enemy UNIT, not model. Meaning hitting a bubblewrap is actually going to hurt a lot more. They really should have called it chain lightning.
Why is it better? Because of the fact you can choose what is going to be hit and the fact GK is centered on a model not a unit. GK having it centered on a model means you aren't actually getting the splash, because the only thing within 3 inch of a model... is other models from the same unit. Meaning you literally just casted a STILL nerfed version of smite.
So congrats, a army with literally no psychic powers is now BETTER at the psychic phase than us.
Quickjager wrote: Necrons have like a sidegrade version of Vortex of Doom. I honestly think it is better.
Pick a visible enemy unit within 24 inches and roll a D6... On a 4+ the chosen unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Then roll a D6 for every other enemy unit that is within 3 inches of the chosen enemy UNIT. On a 4+ they also suffer a mortal wound.
The biggest differences is 2 things.
1. GK can get up to D6 mortal wounds on the primary target and the surrounding targets, Necrons are stuck to D3 and 1 on the surrounding targets.
2. Necrons have the ability to actually pick their target and have a 24 inch range. Further their ability hurts the surroundings units based of the chosen enemy UNIT, not model. Meaning hitting a bubblewrap is actually going to hurt a lot more. They really should have called it chain lightning.
Why is it better? Because of the fact you can choose what is going to be hit and the fact GK is centered on a model not a unit. GK having it centered on a model means you aren't actually getting the splash, because the only thing within 3 inch of a model... is other models from the same unit. Meaning you literally just casted a STILL nerfed version of smite.
So congrats, a army with literally no psychic powers is now BETTER at the psychic phase than us.
I honestly prefer Purge Soul than Vortex of Doom. On the paper you have more MW with VoD, but on the field Purge Soul has been working better for me with Ld-9 models such as Draigo.
It's worse than you think, a 4+ is more likely to go off than a high warp charge power like Vortex - and it doesn't have a chance of killing your own unit!
I was thinking... would the following make Grey Knights competitive- All Nemesis Weapons ignore Invulnerable saves. The model hit must use its normal armor save if applicable.
IIRC this is the old Nemesis weapon rule and I think that this would allow GKs to be fielded and be competitive.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: I was thinking... would the following make Grey Knights competitive- All Nemesis Weapons ignore Invulnerable saves. The model hit must use its normal armor save if applicable.
IIRC this is the old Nemesis weapon rule and I think that this would allow GKs to be fielded and be competitive.
wasnt the old nemesis weapon rule just force weapon + some deamon stuff?
The old Nemesis weapon was a sliding scale: strikes got +2 strength, termies got +2 strength and it counted as a power weapon, Grandmasters got +2 strength and force weapon (note that in the old days power/force weapons ignored all armor saves). From 5th on everyone just got a force weapon with a different profile depending on if it was a sword, halberd, etc.
Psycannons and psybolt ammo (a character wargear upgrade) ignored invulnerable saves, but the fluff for those read a lot more like the psilencer description. In 5th they dropped the invul-ignoring but made paybolt ammo a +1 strength upgrade for a squad’s bolters. Psycannons became assault cannons with +1 strength for 5/6/7th, which makes their current profile baffling.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
It would make GK better, but not by that much. They would see a lot more use as a bolt-on imperial detachment to deal with Daemons or assassinate characters, but for pure GK detachments the same threats (mainly shooting and getting bogged down in bubble wrap) would still kill them and we wouldn’t get much use out of the rule. That said, I think it’s a good way to give them a generically good ability that also really shines against Daemons.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
If our Force weapons gained the old force rule from the Daemonhunter codex we would become pretty nasty in melee. We could insta-kill anything and everything again
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
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