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Since the Cult and Skitarii are clearly being rolled into one, there is the chance that the Skitarii will lose their Doctrines for shared Canticles. Looking at the leaked Canticles below, that would be an insane nerf to them. 3 out of 6 can only be used in close combat, something we're not exactly trying to get into, and only one is a slight boon to shooting, where we used to have all of our strength focused. I'm still really excited to see how this all pans out, but with all the threads dedicated to doomsaying of all the other factions, I thought Skitarii deserved its own.
how do those canticles work though as I can see a NUMBER that are gonna be good for Skitarii.
Incantation of the Iron Soul is gonna be good for any unit you have,
Litany of the Electromancer might seem CC based, but it'd be an excellent way to keep assault units OFF your ranged stuff (sort of like an electric eel)
Chant of the Remorseless Fist is pretty bleh for a shooting army I agree,
Shroudpsalm is pretty awesome, Benidiction of the Omnissiah is amazing.
really of the stuff listed only 2 are super melee focused, and 1 is kinda. (but as I said I could see ways you could use it defensivly)
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
BrianDavion wrote: how do those canticles work though as I can see a NUMBER that are gonna be good for Skitarii.
Incantation of the Iron Soul is gonna be good for any unit you have,
Litany of the Electromancer might seem CC based, but it'd be an excellent way to keep assault units OFF your ranged stuff (sort of like an electric eel)
Chant of the Remorseless Fist is pretty bleh for a shooting army I agree,
Shroudpsalm is pretty awesome, Benidiction of the Omnissiah is amazing.
really of the stuff listed only 2 are super melee focused, and 1 is kinda. (but as I said I could see ways you could use it defensivly)
Some of this is dependant on when it is used, and whether you get to pick. The fact that it's 1-6 is worrying, as it could suggest a dice roll, which would be horrible.
The Electric Eel is useless in armies built to be pure Skitarii. It's on a 6, so you'd have to have a couple of units in combat for it to have a reliable chance to hit once, and there are very few Skitarii that like being in combat. Having a 16.6% chance to do a little damage is never going to be a good defensive option and will never be worth the risk unless you expect the unit to get wiped anyway.
And we're potentially losing our 2+ into a 5+ first turn shooting, for a rerolls on 1s. That's a ridiculously big nerf.
That said, I'm not going to whine that my list is bad and refuse to adapt. If Skitarii are going over to canticles and we're all one big army now, I'll be picking up a few units from the Cult side. Maybe the Electromancers will be viable now. I always liked their models.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 09:01:29
BrianDavion wrote: how do those canticles work though as I can see a NUMBER that are gonna be good for Skitarii.
Incantation of the Iron Soul is gonna be good for any unit you have,
Litany of the Electromancer might seem CC based, but it'd be an excellent way to keep assault units OFF your ranged stuff (sort of like an electric eel)
Chant of the Remorseless Fist is pretty bleh for a shooting army I agree,
Shroudpsalm is pretty awesome, Benidiction of the Omnissiah is amazing.
really of the stuff listed only 2 are super melee focused, and 1 is kinda. (but as I said I could see ways you could use it defensivly)
Some of this is dependant on when it is used, and whether you get to pick. The fact that it's 1-6 is worrying, as it could suggest a dice roll, which would be horrible.
The Electric Eel is useless in armies built to be pure Skitarii. It's on a 6, so you'd have to have a couple of units in combat for it to have a reliable chance to hit once, and there are very few Skitarii that like being in combat. Having a 16.6% chance to do a little damage is never going to be a good defensive option and will never be worth the risk unless you expect the unit to get wiped anyway.
And we're potentially losing our 2+ into a 5+ first turn shooting, for a rerolls on 1s. That's a ridiculously big nerf.
That said, I'm not going to whine that my list is bad and refuse to adapt. If Skitarii are going over to canticles and we're all one big army now, I'll be picking up a few units from the Cult side. Maybe the Electromancers will be viable now. I always liked their models.
every "D6" chart thus far has been "roll or choose"
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Full page leak was released. You pick at the beginning of each game turn. You cannot pick the same one twice. Alternatively you can roll randomly. If you roll and get the same result twice it takes effect again.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Lance845 wrote: Full page leak was released. You pick at the beginning of each game turn. You cannot pick the same one twice. Alternatively you can roll randomly. If you roll and get the same result twice it takes effect again.
Do you have a link for that leak? The choose or roll mechanic sounds quite interesting. I quite like the combination of control and randomness.
Cawl lets you choose one higher or lower than your roll if you choose to roll.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Both Cawl and this guy look like they'll boost key parts of a gun line nicely with rerolls.
It's the age of Mars though with Cawl being a named character and having such good abilities.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 11:00:25
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
Oh my Omnissiah, <Forge World> is a thing. That is sick. Cawl is basically still the monster he is in 7th. I can only imagine he'll be super expensive, because his 200 points in 7th is laughably cheap.
And that Onager with a Neutron laser and heavy stubber looks to be 143.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 11:20:05
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
[DCM]
Chief Deputy Sub Assistant Trainee Squig Handling Intern
Phosphor weapons seem quite nice now.
Decent strength, decent save mod, and ignore cover.
I've also seen (but can't share because Work PC) the weapon profiles. Our Plasma is pretty nasty. Lots of shots, multiple damage. But if you shoot on Maximum, you need to roll a D6. If you roll a one, that model snuffs it once it's shots have been resolved.
On the face of it, that's not great for Battle Servitors etc, who previously were quite resilient to overheats. But the upside is that it's a single D6 per model, rather than the risk of it with each and every shot.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Decent strength, decent save mod, and ignore cover.
I've also seen (but can't share because Work PC) the weapon profiles. Our Plasma is pretty nasty. Lots of shots, multiple damage. But if you shoot on Maximum, you need to roll a D6. If you roll a one, that model snuffs it once it's shots have been resolved.
On the face of it, that's not great for Battle Servitors etc, who previously were quite resilient to overheats. But the upside is that it's a single D6 per model, rather than the risk of it with each and every shot.
Well it's on a hit roll of 1 on the Plasma Caliver, and it has 2 shots (rather than the 3 it used to iirc) so it's 2 chances. We do have some ways to reroll 1s, though. Priests and Canticles both able to provide. And at least it's a risk/reward thing that you can choose on the fly now, rather than just always present.
And that Onager with a Neutron laser and heavy stubber looks to be 143.
I still think that's considerably more expensive for Cawl than it was. A unit of 10 unequipped Vanguard are only 100p. Vehicles were supposed to get more expensive, Cawl isn't a Vehicle.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 12:04:45
So 1, 4, and 6 are the good canticles. Cawl lets you add or subtract 1. So taking cawl means you alway get a good canticle, even when rolling. That's nifty.
Actually, might be accurate to say Cawl always lets you get a shooting or melee focused canticle, depending on what you need. Every roll will give you the option of one of the two (well, technically a 1/2 gives you the generally applicable moral boost or a melee canticle).
SilverAlien wrote: So 1, 4, and 6 are the good canticles. Cawl lets you add or subtract 1. So taking cawl means you alway get a good canticle, even when rolling. That's nifty.
Actually, might be accurate to say Cawl always lets you get a shooting or melee focused canticle, depending on what you need. Every roll will give you the option of one of the two (well, technically a 1/2 gives you the generally applicable moral boost or a melee canticle).
Pretty good way to look at Cawl's power. In larger battles, he'd be an auto include, but the 250 price tag, while not at all horrible looking at it with no real experience, is still gonna be a bit restrictive in smaller battles.
Reading through it, it looks like at this starting point the <Forge World> Keyword really has no use. Unless you're really feeling some fluff you're gonna choose Mars every time, because the only impact it has at the moment is whether or not you are the same forge world as Cawl.
It does very much look like it's setting up for future special rules, though.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 12:45:32
What are peoples views on the dunecrawler profile that's been leaked? Sorry I can't find how to link to it on my mobile!
The heavy stubber clearly states a - 2 penalty to hit if the dunecrawler advances. The crawler special rule clearly says it ignores the - 1to hit penalty for advancing and firing heavy weapons. The two rules are working against each other. Does this balance out to a - 1 for the stubber?
The dune crawler's rule reads "ignores the -1 penalty to moving and shooting"
so if you move and shoot, with any heavy weapon, it is at full BS for the dunecrawler. If you advance and shoot, you can only fire the cognis weapons, and at -2
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 13:56:54
Ah yea just checked back at the data sheet. Makes sense to me now. Because it says "can only advance d3" I was automatically thinking the - 1 was for advancing, not just moving. Thanks.
Just gonna post my overall thoughts, spoilers for length.
Spoiler:
Destroyers don't look too bad at 76 points for heavy grav and cognis flamer. The role has changed a bit, now great at killing most infantry , decent against light vehicles and lightly armored multi wound infantry, not great against heavy vehicles, bad against MC. Breachers are still bad, dunecrawler and ironstrider can both do anti vehicle better than it.
Rangers didn't get a flat -1 AP, because then they'd have guns as good as the primaris. Grumble. The transuranic arquebus went from being one of the most mobile heavy weapons to one of the only totally immobile heavy weapons. So that's odd. Otherwise, it got a buff overall, can sniper characters and be a threat to just about anything, including heavy armor. Even most transports it's wounding on a 3+ now, while negating most/all of their armor and potentially inflicting extra mortal wounds.
Vanguard are still solid, though the way their carbine changed it's not quite as good at slaughtering hordes. Still, sheer weight of fire and potential for multi damage means nothing in the game feels that comfortable facing them. A unit of 10 can reliably chip wounds off anything, even a couple per turn from a land raider. The cavalier.... eh. I would honestly not bother. Better things to spend points on.
Speaking of, heavy phosphor is probably the best blob killer I've seen so far. 15 points each (30 for twin, so yay being sensible), and wounds blobs on 2+/3+, 3 shots, negates most blobs armor and cover saves. Kastellans and dunecrawlers can both make good usage of it, probably take it on kastellans for this myself though. Even better when you remember most armies lost access to anti cover weapons, now that flamers no longer ignore it.
Datasmith's can heal kastellans themselves now, and can benefit multiple units, which is nifty.
Ironstriders look pretty decent, you can get 2 with twin lascannons for a little less than lascannon predator, bit more fragile but not horrifically so. The big problem with them is dunecrawlers are even better now, and their weapon options are better than ironstriders.
Dunecrawlers look solid with pretty much all the options, and work better alone/in pairs now. Neutron laser looks great for it's price. Random shots are annoying, but it's only d3 so not that swingy. You have d6 damage but you can't do less than three. Costs the same as a twin cognis lascannon despite being better in every way, except you can't advance and fire at -2 (which I can't see myself doing ever) and you have to deal with the random d3 shots instead of a consistent 2. All in all, I think I prefer the neutron laser dunecrawler to lascannon ironstriders.
Staff priests are actually good now, arguably better than dunestriders and filling similar roles. Infiltrators aren't bad.
So honestly, most of our good stuff stayed good, the bad/mediocre stuff is mostly still that. Overall, it's nice just to have a merged coherent army list without relying on detachments.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/05/31 15:17:34
I was thinking the same about the staff priests. Absolutely going to pick up two boxes. The Carbine is clearly considerably worse than it was. It's basically the same weapon, except the double wounds mechanic is now useless against units of single wound models.
I think Arc Rifles have found a place just on being so ridiculously cheap. They give the Vanguard units an answer to vehicles that is much cheaper than the plasma Caliver.
My units have always been 10 model with one Caliver, but I think I might put 2 arc rifles in each unit as well now.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 15:31:46
True, but balance that against the increased number of multi wound models, as well as the fact vehicles now effectively act like MCs. A unit of 10 can reliably take off at least 1-3 wounds from anything each turn, even a knight takes 2 on average. That's what two lascannon shots a turn averages out as. That's pretty good for a unit of 100 point infantry. For reference, 150ish points of destroyers with put out around 2.2 damage a round to a knight. Even a neutron crawler is only doing around 2.4 damage at 130 points (side note, the invulnerable save on knights really favors high shots over AP, so other heavy vehicles won't be quite as resilient to crawlers/destroyers).
So they took a hit to dealing with lots of small enemies to be able to threaten literally any enemy in the game with at decent amount of damage. Considering that again, these are your basic troop choice, that's honestly not an awful trade off.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/05/31 16:12:08
I actually think that's kind of clever. The wound rolls where you only wound on a six are all going to have the damage multiplied by 2. 30 shots, .67 hit, 20 hits, 3.33 wounds, 1.11 get through, = 2 damage.
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
