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pinecone77 wrote:
I believe so, same as a Transport. So placing a Trygon+ Unit is two drops used.

By "drops" do you mean to say two deployments? Because transports (and the Trygon) clearly indicate that only one turn of "deployment" is used. Hence my uncertainty.

Do half of my "turns" spent deploying need to be on the board, or does the total number of units in my army on the board need to equal or exceed the total number of units I have in reserves?

Yes, sorry. As I understand it 1/2 Total units must be on the board up to 1/2 saved for DS etc. Going First is "drops" so by placing in a Trygon Tunnel I use two drops so vs a MSU I might still go First because he is still placing after I am done. Transports give a simular advantage.

So if I place a unit of GSC cultists down thats a drop, then I place a transport containing AM, and a Magus that is one drop even though I placed 3 units.

I'm thinking about a list with something along these lines:

Swarmy
2 Broodlords
3 Tyrant Guard

20 Genestealers
20 Genestealers
20 Genestealers

Trygon
Trygon
Trygon

A little one trick pony, but do I need to break up the Tyrant Guard into units of 1 in order to have all 3 units of genestealers deploy in the tunnels? I can't figure out if I have 3 units in reserves or 6 units in reserves since they both "drop" at the same time. I think it's still 6 units in reserves

I think you're right I count 6 units, and three "drops" so you need more units on the Table. (Like spliting the Guards)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 luke1705 wrote:
I'm thinking about a list with something along these lines:

Swarmy
2 Broodlords
3 Tyrant Guard

20 Genestealers
20 Genestealers
20 Genestealers

Trygon
Trygon
Trygon

A little one trick pony, but do I need to break up the Tyrant Guard into units of 1 in order to have all 3 units of genestealers deploy in the tunnels? I can't figure out if I have 3 units in reserves or 6 units in reserves since they both "drop" at the same time. I think it's still 6 units in reserves

Persoally I'd likely lose one Trygon, toss in a Mawloc and spend any extra on something that should be 5 in reserve, and 5 on table and all three Guards to keep Swarmy alive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Swarmy should be able to Psycher the Staeler Brood into T1 strike, and He'll likely be tanking the Alpha in any case.

This was just my "what if I used 60 genestealers" list.

My more TAC list right now is:

Swarmy
3 Tyrant Guard (rending claws)
Flyrant w/AG, Scytals, RC
Flyrant w/AG, Scytals, RC

20 stealers w/toxin sacs
20 stealers
3 rippers

Trygon w/AG
Trygon w/AG
Exocrine

But MAN do I want to get a broodlord in there somehow...and probably the genestealers lmao. I think I'll probably wind up footslogging 1 unit of genestealers. I mean, if you've got 40 of them in your face turn 1, do you really have time to care about the other 40 coming in on turn 2? I think not

Looks good. But you don't have a screen/bubblewrap. In 8th a Alpha Can be a T1 charge, so you need to blunt having 30x Boyz comming down the pipe. They can even Teleport! Tau will likely have DS Fusion suits for decapitating strikes as well.

That's because I go first They'll have to worry about screening me.

I made a "compromise" list, which is a compromise because it doesn't have as many Tyrant Guard as I'd like, but it does get the 3rd group of genestealers...and if those guys aren't effective "bubble wrap", I don't know what is (I mean ideally, bubble wrap would be less expensive, but you get the idea)

Swarmy
Broodlord
Flyrant w/Scytal, RC
1 Tyrant Guard w/RC, AG

20 genestealers
20 genestealers
20 genestealers

Trygon w/AG
Trygon w/AG
Exocrine

8 drops at 2k is pretty much always going to go first, barring a seize. Can cast smite 3x and 3 other powers, so that's pretty good. I can honestly say that I think the broodlord & 20 genestealers slogging it up will actually be ignored for the most part, which is spectacular. Plus I can FNP whichever blob of stealers I think needs it the most.

And this has 7 command points, which I like.

 luke1705 wrote:
That's because I go first They'll have to worry about screening me.

I made a "compromise" list, which is a compromise because it doesn't have as many Tyrant Guard as I'd like, but it does get the 3rd group of genestealers...and if those guys aren't effective "bubble wrap", I don't know what is (I mean ideally, bubble wrap would be less expensive, but you get the idea)

Swarmy
Broodlord
Flyrant w/Scytal, RC
1 Tyrant Guard w/RC, AG

20 genestealers
20 genestealers
20 genestealers

Trygon w/AG
Trygon w/AG
Exocrine

8 drops at 2k is pretty much always going to go first, barring a seize. Can cast smite 3x and 3 other powers, so that's pretty good. I can honestly say that I think the broodlord & 20 genestealers slogging it up will actually be ignored for the most part, which is spectacular. Plus I can FNP whichever blob of stealers I think needs it the most.

And this has 7 command points, which I like.

Very nice! I hope you get to test drive it soon!

Well I still have 20 genestealers to assemble, but the 40 gene stealer version of this has been well-driven. Has only lost to custodes...and I made 3 crucial errors that game. I tweaked the most recent version of the 60 stealer list a touch to get a second tyrant guard by ditching 4 stealers from the footslogging squad. It also allowed me to upgrade the flyrant to have 2x scytals, so that's a nice bonus. Feels like a pretty solid base for my competitive Nids list.

 Zande4 wrote:

babelfish wrote:


Scything talons and devourers + a venom cannon = 70 points for 3. Rending = 85 for 3.


.

I think you've got your points mixed up.

3 Warriors, 2 devourers, 1 venom cannon and 3 scything talons is 77 points


3 Warriors, 3 scything talons and 3 rending claws is 66 points

3 Warriors, 3 rending claws, 2 devourers and 1 venom cannon is 83 points.

Devourers are 4p, Venom Cannon is 9p, scything talons are free an rending claws are 2p

Memory said that devourers were free and I was rounding to even numbers cause I didn't feel like looking it up just to make the point that they are reasonably priced for the backfield synapse role. Should have double checked/said approximately x points instead.

If/when I try running them in that role I'll likely swap between double scything, scything/rending and scything/sword+whip to try out all the melee weapon options ( I love you, cheap internet magnets). My instinct is to throw a melee weapon on them to keep drop pod tacticals off my backfield objectives, but I don't know that that is the threat I should be worried about anymore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 luke1705 wrote:
Well I still have 20 genestealers to assemble, but the 40 gene stealer version of this has been well-driven. Has only lost to custodes...and I made 3 crucial errors that game. I tweaked the most recent version of the 60 stealer list a touch to get a second tyrant guard by ditching 4 stealers from the footslogging squad. It also allowed me to upgrade the flyrant to have 2x scytals, so that's a nice bonus. Feels like a pretty solid base for my competitive Nids list.

I like the build. I would be tempted to drop the Exocrine for Hive Guard. With all the rending you have the Exocrine is going to spend more time shooting at tanks then infantry, and there is not a lot of S8 in the list.

What are your thoughts on deathspitters vs the second scything talons on the Tyrant? I feel like the talons don't bring a whole lot to the Tyrant for how much they cost, but I'm in theoryhammer land and could easily be wrong.

I'am making 15 (3x5) biovores because I think the rock!

I got more succes with mortal wounds spore bombs than charging trygons. A biovore in cover is very difficult to kill because most big damage weapons don't want to shoot at them but rather shoot at the big ones. I combine them with a tyrannocyte + 20 genestealers, 3 flying hive tyrants with deathspitter, 3 mawloc's and 3 warriors for babysitting biovores(synapse). Mawloc's are a great deal for 100+ points and not bad against infantry unit's. Tyrannocyte can always fly out of close combat and shoot another unit and charge again.

If I want a lot of floating spore mines, I just move the biovores and get a -1 to hit and block a particular enemy unit from moving.

A full 'in your face' Tyranid army is still struggling against armies that can successfully block this and every army will have that opportunity. With this much biovores you can simply soften up the target from a save distance and choose to come out of reserves later. The can take out the big gun's or the small guns so that the floating spore mines can be a treat next turn , if the don't got a lot of small arms fire to take them down cheap.

shogun wrote:

I'am making 15 (3x5) biovores because I think the rock!

I got more succes with mortal wounds spore bombs than charging trygons. A biovore in cover is very difficult to kill because most big damage weapons don't want to shoot at them but rather shoot at the big ones. I combine them with a tyrannocyte + 20 genestealers, 3 flying hive tyrants with deathspitter, 3 mawloc's and 3 warriors for babysitting biovores(synapse). Mawloc's are a great deal for 100+ points and not bad against infantry unit's. Tyrannocyte can always fly out of close combat and shoot another unit and charge again.

If I want a lot of floating spore mines, I just move the biovores and get a -1 to hit and block a particular enemy unit from moving.

A full 'in your face' Tyranid army is still struggling against armies that can successfully block this and every army will have that opportunity. With this much biovores you can simply soften up the target from a save distance and choose to come out of reserves later. The can take out the big gun's or the small guns so that the floating spore mines can be a treat next turn , if the don't got a lot of small arms fire to take them down cheap.

Yes - genius.

Moving the Biovores on purpose to get better odds for a Bomb is a great idea.

I am also fitting in as many Biovores as I can.

Synapse baby sitting may prove to be a problem in the later turns, however... Is it needed?

Razerous wrote:

shogun wrote:

I'am making 15 (3x5) biovores because I think the rock!

I got more succes with mortal wounds spore bombs than charging trygons. A biovore in cover is very difficult to kill because most big damage weapons don't want to shoot at them but rather shoot at the big ones. I combine them with a tyrannocyte + 20 genestealers, 3 flying hive tyrants with deathspitter, 3 mawloc's and 3 warriors for babysitting biovores(synapse). Mawloc's are a great deal for 100+ points and not bad against infantry unit's. Tyrannocyte can always fly out of close combat and shoot another unit and charge again.

If I want a lot of floating spore mines, I just move the biovores and get a -1 to hit and block a particular enemy unit from moving.

A full 'in your face' Tyranid army is still struggling against armies that can successfully block this and every army will have that opportunity. With this much biovores you can simply soften up the target from a save distance and choose to come out of reserves later. The can take out the big gun's or the small guns so that the floating spore mines can be a treat next turn , if the don't got a lot of small arms fire to take them down cheap.

Yes - genius.

Moving the Biovores on purpose to get better odds for a Bomb is a great idea.

I am also fitting in as many Biovores as I can.

Synapse baby sitting may prove to be a problem in the later turns, however... Is it needed?

No synapse, and the got to shoot the closest enemy unit. Don't want to be forced to do that.

The also got Leadership 5. One dead biovore -> morale test -> 6 result + 1 for dead casualty = 2 models running away = whole unit dead. The really do need synapse when you field multiple model units.

I see a lot of trygon/stealer tunnel lists. I tried it out but was under the impression that after you tunnel up you can't advance meaning that all my charges were at least 9" making it very unlikely I'd make the charges. I failed 6 of 6, 9" charges. Even with AG on the trygons without being able to advance with the stealers its hard to make any charges. Am I correct in assuming you cannot advance when you pop up?

Low leadership - fair enough; I'm assuming I'll be running single-model broods, so I don't need to worry about leadership.

As for backfield synapse, points may not stretch (Or I lose a precious Trygon!)

 luke1705 wrote:
That's because I go first They'll have to worry about screening me.

I made a "compromise" list, which is a compromise because it doesn't have as many Tyrant Guard as I'd like, but it does get the 3rd group of genestealers...and if those guys aren't effective "bubble wrap", I don't know what is (I mean ideally, bubble wrap would be less expensive, but you get the idea)

Swarmy
Broodlord
Flyrant w/Scytal, RC
1 Tyrant Guard w/RC, AG

20 genestealers
20 genestealers
20 genestealers

Trygon w/AG
Trygon w/AG
Exocrine

8 drops at 2k is pretty much always going to go first, barring a seize. Can cast smite 3x and 3 other powers, so that's pretty good. I can honestly say that I think the broodlord & 20 genestealers slogging it up will actually be ignored for the most part, which is spectacular. Plus I can FNP whichever blob of stealers I think needs it the most.

And this has 7 command points, which I like.

This is very similar to what I was pondering. Only real difference being I didn't have the broodlord, but the more I think about him being an untargetable, synapse/psyker/buff character the more I like him. Hes also generally shredded just about anything he's got into combat in the games I've played with him, and hot damn if you get even 10 Stealers in combat within his buff aura their absolutely devastating. Can't wait to try a more refined version soon.

skycapt44 wrote:
I see a lot of trygon/stealer tunnel lists. I tried it out but was under the impression that after you tunnel up you can't advance meaning that all my charges were at least 9" making it very unlikely I'd make the charges. I failed 6 of 6, 9" charges. Even with AG on the trygons without being able to advance with the stealers its hard to make any charges. Am I correct in assuming you cannot advance when you pop up?

You are correct sir. 9" charge (or 8" on the Trygons) is the best you can do. But overwatch comes from the back now, and you can always use a handy CP re-roll on one of the more optimistic rolls (like you rolled a 5 or a 6 on on dice and a 1, 2 or 3 on the other), giving you really good odds with your re-roll. Plus they stay in reserves until they pop up, so even if your opponent goes first, they can't get shot at.

Above all, the ABILITY to have like 80 attacks that rend turn 1 and are great at multi-assaulting is literally meta-shifting. Just a ton better than running up the board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

babelfish wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Well I still have 20 genestealers to assemble, but the 40 gene stealer version of this has been well-driven. Has only lost to custodes...and I made 3 crucial errors that game. I tweaked the most recent version of the 60 stealer list a touch to get a second tyrant guard by ditching 4 stealers from the footslogging squad. It also allowed me to upgrade the flyrant to have 2x scytals, so that's a nice bonus. Feels like a pretty solid base for my competitive Nids list.

I like the build. I would be tempted to drop the Exocrine for Hive Guard. With all the rending you have the Exocrine is going to spend more time shooting at tanks then infantry, and there is not a lot of S8 in the list.

What are your thoughts on deathspitters vs the second scything talons on the Tyrant? I feel like the talons don't bring a whole lot to the Tyrant for how much they cost, but I'm in theoryhammer land and could easily be wrong.

The exocrine is just such a beast. I imagine that the Hive Guard do slightly better per point against vehicles (their intended target) but the exocrine loses less efficiency as he loses wounds, since hive guard actually die as they lose some wounds, and firing twice is just so brutal. Plus, exocrines are better at hunting elite infantry, which my list also struggles a bit with. I find that my rends are often more useful against vehicles, unless they're t8.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

Spoiler:

That's because I go first They'll have to worry about screening me.

I made a "compromise" list, which is a compromise because it doesn't have as many Tyrant Guard as I'd like, but it does get the 3rd group of genestealers...and if those guys aren't effective "bubble wrap", I don't know what is (I mean ideally, bubble wrap would be less expensive, but you get the idea)

Swarmy
Broodlord
Flyrant w/Scytal, RC
1 Tyrant Guard w/RC, AG

20 genestealers
20 genestealers
20 genestealers

Trygon w/AG
Trygon w/AG
Exocrine

8 drops at 2k is pretty much always going to go first, barring a seize. Can cast smite 3x and 3 other powers, so that's pretty good. I can honestly say that I think the broodlord & 20 genestealers slogging it up will actually be ignored for the most part, which is spectacular. Plus I can FNP whichever blob of stealers I think needs it the most.

And this has 7 command points, which I like.

Thanks luke for the confirmation. Can swarmlord use his hive commander on himself to double move? In other words, can you pod swarmy down in a Tcyte stay just over 9". Then in shoot phase cast hive commander on swarmy to move within an inch of your enemy to charge it the same turn? Or must it be used on a different unit...Obviously the swarmlord is within 6" of itself and it is a unit so...

You absolutely can. You're always considered within "x" inches of yourself.

Has anyone tried out the haruspex?

Some people think the tyrannocyte move is a point of contention with Swarmy but I don't think the argument that he can't holds any water. Moving himself is great, but if you're going to move him turn 1, I don't think a pod is really necessary. Grab a few tyrant guard and he'll live until turn 2 (when you'll certainly be charging with him)

The haruspex sounds interesting. I don't have one to try (built the exocrine last time around, shockingly)

What I'm really curious to hear about is the Toxicrene...that new-found 3+ armor and general better utility is great!

Of course, none of this "which melee bug is best" will matter when the Dimachaeron's rules come out, hopefully. C'mon Forge World! Take my money!

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
I am anxious due to the re-write of the Malanthrope of what the DIMACHAERON will look like ...

It's my only other FW bug.

Same for me, I have two Malanthropes and a Dimachaeron. Doing me the significant concern. I mean it's got to be said GW is here to sell models, their top priority is not balanced units. In 7th edition the Malanthrope and Dimachaeron were strong; some solid Tyranid units in a generally underpowered army. Which made everyone buy them! Now it seems their plan to to nerf them below average and make a handful of new units decent. Oh look how that turned out, now everyone has to buy those to keep their head above water. So I don't have high hopes for the Dimachaeron, unfortunately..

It actually seems to me like they're trying to boost the underperforming units and bring the units that were head and shoulders too good into line with the rest of the army. The malanthrope was definitely head and shoulders too good, but I don't think he's bad now. The dimachaeron was decidedly middle of the pack, so I don't think he'll have too many crazy changes (maybe a useful leap rule lol?)

If you want to use the Swarmlord's double move on him, he'll be pretty fine I think (could be said of basically any Tyranid melee gribbly but I want to believe)

Honestly, this must've been what it felt like to be an Eldar player when the 6th Ed book came out. We have no terrible units, and the weakest offerings are totally playable.

I'd argue 40k would be at its absolute best ever if each army had this many options and as much across-the-board playability (which honestly is true as far as I can tell at a glance).

Mutation wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
I am anxious due to the re-write of the Malanthrope of what the DIMACHAERON will look like ...

It's my only other FW bug.

Same for me, I have two Malanthropes and a Dimachaeron. Doing me the significant concern. I mean it's got to be said GW is here to sell models, their top priority is not balanced units. In 7th edition the Malanthrope and Dimachaeron were strong; some solid Tyranid units in a generally underpowered army. Which made everyone buy them! Now it seems their plan to to nerf them below average and make a handful of new units decent. Oh look how that turned out, now everyone has to buy those to keep their head above water. So I don't have high hopes for the Dimachaeron, unfortunately..

I will wait before saying the Malanthrope as been nerfed. Is back as a HQ and you can have 3 of them, 9 wounds (cannot be select as target) and Prey Adaptation buff the whole army, not just a unit.

We just need to know how to use it well.

I'm planning on running my Toxicrene this weekend. The thing had got to be the bane of horde units. Between its high volume of cc attacks, and getting to "shoot" the tentacles I'm combat combined with the miasma&acid blood thing is gong to clear boyz by the dozen at least.

 hellpato wrote:

Mutation wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
I am anxious due to the re-write of the Malanthrope of what the DIMACHAERON will look like ...

It's my only other FW bug.

Same for me, I have two Malanthropes and a Dimachaeron. Doing me the significant concern. I mean it's got to be said GW is here to sell models, their top priority is not balanced units. In 7th edition the Malanthrope and Dimachaeron were strong; some solid Tyranid units in a generally underpowered army. Which made everyone buy them! Now it seems their plan to to nerf them below average and make a handful of new units decent. Oh look how that turned out, now everyone has to buy those to keep their head above water. So I don't have high hopes for the Dimachaeron, unfortunately..

I will wait before saying the Malanthrope as been nerfed. Is back as a HQ and you can have 3 of them, 9 wounds (cannot be select as target) and Prey Adaptation buff the whole army, not just a unit.

We just need to know how to use it well.

I do agree to a point. I have never used a Mal as an HQ, which I may actually like pending on placement and use. I was tempted to buy 2 more but now with the move to HQ I don't feel the need. I do like the feeling I get with the Broodlord though.

= Dimachaeron rules!

Yeah.. I may actually get my Malenphrope fixed now..

the flying stand split in the centre at the base.. made me sad

My problem with malanthrope and venomthrope is their speed. One move and advance with my horms and genestealers and they're out of the buff range.

My issue with the toxicrene is transporting the bloody thing