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 luke1705 wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:


So why would I not squeeze in a Trygon + 15 TS GS in a list, if I am afraid of T8 units? The GSC guys are still to unreliable for my taste when you want to do a surgical strike exactly where you want them imho.

Well, for the points of a Trygon (presumably 180 since that 8" charge is totally worth 5 points) you could instead take 18 gene stealers (assuming GSC because reasons).

Cast the psychic power on them so they wound T8 on 5's, and even without a patriarch nearby (he would be) they do 20 wounds, half of which are rends...so we're talking roughly 15 wounds on a leman russ (or whatever 3+ save t8 unit you'd like dead)

Compare that to a Trygon. He charges in and does 5.9 damage on average (6.9 if you use your CP re-roll on the damage result)

Even just normal hive fleet gene stealers (who have a pretty decent chance at a turn 1 charge if you swarm lord slingshot them) do:

6.666 damage on average (You only get 15 of them, and you only wound on 6's because no might from beyond psychic power)


Looking at the cult ambush table, it's actually much better than most people are giving it credit for. It is somewhat unreliable, but as long as you don't have more than like 3 units cult ambushing in, you can bring only 1 unit in a turn, guaranteeing that you can use your re-roll to mitigate the bad result (1; 4 is also not ideal unless there is BLOS terrain). People I feel are taking the "coming on from table edges" to be a bad thing. But 6" outflank (especially since you can do it from their table edge) is really not awful at all when you have to be 9" away from the enemy anyhow. So unless none of their army is within 15" of ANY table edge, you're almost always going to be able to get a 9" charge on something when you roll a 2, and sometimes even when you roll a 1. And of course the 5 and 6 results are both amazing.

Okay. You compare 20 GSC Stealers with Patriarch against 15 HF Stealers with Tox Sacs and a Trygon.
In this case the GSC version is just slightly cheaper. I am not taking in the Broodlord here, because I wouldn't be able to use one anyway, if I go through the Trygon tunnel.
Imho you are on the opposite giving too much credit for the cult ambush. Sure the other results coming from one table are not bad. But they are often bad, if you put in these units especially to kill a big and mean tank or Knight. Because then you would have to be extremely lucky to charge the desired enemy unit.

So I think both have their purposes. Especially when the GSC Stealers will go up by 2pts per model.

Can I use my GSC Brothers as a "Psychic Sniper"? I was thinking that Mind Control could let me shoot down the officers that make Astra Mill so tough, is this possable?

Just looking for a bit of advice on making a pure Hive Fleet list, I own the following models, mostly brand new:

78 Termagants
40 Gargoyles
3 Hive Tyrant boxes (new and unbuilt)
1 Malanthrope
1 Barbed Hierodule
6 Warriors (unbuilt)
2 Mawloc boxes (unbuilt)

Really curious what direction to go and what else I need to make a competitive list. I was thinking of getting a Tervigon and another Malanthrope, but open to suggestions. Also curious if I should run a very swarmy list with Hierodule and Tyrants as the heavy hitters.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Just looking for a bit of advice on making a pure Hive Fleet list, I own the following models, mostly brand new:

78 Termagants
40 Gargoyles
3 Hive Tyrant boxes (new and unbuilt)
1 Malanthrope
1 Barbed Hierodule
6 Warriors (unbuilt)
2 Mawloc boxes (unbuilt)

Really curious what direction to go and what else I need to make a competitive list. I was thinking of getting a Tervigon and another Malanthrope, but open to suggestions. Also curious if I should run a very swarmy list with Hierodule and Tyrants as the heavy hitters.

I think given your current stuff, a Tervigon is a very solid choice. I would hold off on the Malanthrope until you hear from the FW FaQ - there's a chance it goes up in points.

As for current stuff, I would do one Tyrant as the Swarmlord, the other two Flying ones with Deathspitters (you get them with Fexes, but you could covert warrior ones up or pick up some spares). Though just plain scything talons isn't bad at all. Warriors it really depends - I would suggest at least some magnetisation, but really most options seem reasonable. I would consider assembling one Mawloc as a Trygon instead - lets you drop a unit in the enemy's face.

For new stuff, I think some genes for melee punch is probably a solid idea. Tyrant Guard would be very useful for your tyrants, and you could also look into the Exocrine and Hive Guard, which are pretty solid now as well.

pinecone77 wrote:
Can I use my GSC Brothers as a "Psychic Sniper"? I was thinking that Mind Control could let me shoot down the officers that make Astra Mill so tough, is this possable?

Absolutely you can, so long as the unit you're shooting is closest to their character. It's a good use of the power vs a lot of armies

 luke1705 wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
Can I use my GSC Brothers as a "Psychic Sniper"? I was thinking that Mind Control could let me shoot down the officers that make Astra Mill so tough, is this possable?

Absolutely you can, so long as the unit you're shooting is closest to their character. It's a good use of the power vs a lot of armies

To be fair, the shooting closest rule for characters does say "in the shooting phase"

Can you target a character with a psychic shooting attack if it's not the closest? (Actually asking)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well it appears we just can do that in the psychic phase. Thanks FAQ. Yeah that's REALLY a good psychic power

sorry if this has been posted before. I scrolled through a bit of this Mounstrous thread, but didn't see it.

what ratio of Devourer Termagants to Fleshborer Termagants are people using with a Tervigon?
I was thinking a unit of 10 Devgants : 20 Fleshgants. My reasoning with 10 Devgants is if they focus fire on the gants in a turn and wipe out like 20 of them, then I can replace 10ea in the following 2 turns, whereas if I had 20 Devgants it would be easier for them to focus fire on the gants, chew through my Dev's and then all I have is 1 unit of Fleshgants that they can ignore more easily thus not allowing me to utilize my Tervigon spawning ability.

20 barebones is the right way to go IMO. If you're consistently going up against people who aren't able to kill that many in 1 turn, try half and half, but I'd definitely want a malanthrope protecting a half and half squad

I'm running 2x 15/15 splits, but I'm not using a Tervigon so respawning isn't relevant to me. I think still having to chew through half the squad first, and having 60 total shots (120 with both) is worth the extra points. Yeah some will die, but oh well they'll do their job more reliably at least. its 20 points so its whatever. if i needed them for something else it would be the first thing I cut down, but as my list stands i think its worth it for me

What do you feel the best way to equip Shrikes is? They feel like the best choice for back up synapse for a quick, assault based list, but I'm not sure how many points I should actually spend on them. I was thinking that boneswords would be good for making them an actual threat, but I don't know what guns I should give them, and if I should buy them flesh hooks.

 SHUPPET wrote:
I'm running 2x 15/15 splits, but I'm not using a Tervigon so respawning isn't relevant to me. I think still having to chew through half the squad first, and having 60 total shots (120 with both) is worth the extra points. Yeah some will die, but oh well they'll do their job more reliably at least. its 20 points so its whatever. if i needed them for something else it would be the first thing I cut down, but as my list stands i think its worth it for me

20 more points for 10 more shots at +6'' range isn't bad at all (when going from 10 Devgants to 15 Devgants). But, for 20 more points that's another 5 Termagants (in another squad) as well, so it's only really 5 more shots total in comparing gants-gants, but 5 less wounds too.
It seems to me like the sweet spot is definitely around 15(flesh):15(dev) or 20(flesh):10(dev), but I'm leaning towards 20:10 with a Tervigon to ensure I am replenishing gants at an annoying rate throughout the game and make it less likely they take out my devgants which I paid double for.

If you trygon tunnel, how many devil gaunts and what guns?

So looks like a TON of Tyranid models are sold out on the GW website...looks like I'll be waiting a while for my Tervigons

my FLGS says they can't keep nids, orks, or tau on the shelves.

Is anyone testing out a list with *no* monstrous creatures? It seems to be a solid syle in my head, giving Venomthrope protection widely while wasting antitank weapons that the opponent takes (ooo, you hit a Termagant with a Lascannon. Good work!) but I'm not sure if anyone's giving it a go other than me at this stage.

 gigasnail wrote:
my FLGS says they can't keep nids, orks, or tau on the shelves.

...and the brilliance of GW's 8th edition (removing all the old stock of these armies from the warehouse) is finally revealed...

Need help with a tourney on the 30th.
Im planning on bringing

Vanguard detachment - gsc
2x patriarchs (one has mass hypnosis one with might from beyond)
4-20x purestrain squads

Battalion detachment -hf
1x flyrant w/deathspitters+rending and adrenal powers are horror and catalyst
1x malanthrope
2-30x termagants 18x devourers 12x fleshborers
1-30x fleshborers gants
3x biovores

Its 177 models I think. Only the flyrant stands out for non-snipers but I wanted a quick catalyst cannon. Malanthrope either babysits the gants or the biovores Im hoping weight of numbers won't really make instinctive matter and if I leave the biovores backfield on an objective they'll autotarget any deepstrikers/flyers lol. Point for point I took out adepts custodes with only 40 Steelers so Im hoping this list can just overwhelm anyone that isn't bringing flyers

I gotta finalize my list ASAP to know what has to be painted

Requiet wrote:
Need help with a tourney on the 30th.
Im planning on bringing

Vanguard detachment - gsc
2x patriarchs (one has mass hypnosis one with might from beyond)
4-20x purestrain squads

Battalion detachment -hf
1x flyrant w/deathspitters+rending and adrenal powers are horror and catalyst
1x malanthrope
2-30x termagants 18x devourers 12x fleshborers
1-30x fleshborers gants
3x biovores

Its 177 models I think. Only the flyrant stands out for non-snipers but I wanted a quick catalyst cannon. Malanthrope either babysits the gants or the biovores Im hoping weight of numbers won't really make instinctive matter and if I leave the biovores backfield on an objective they'll autotarget any deepstrikers/flyers lol. Point for point I took out adepts custodes with only 40 Steelers so Im hoping this list can just overwhelm anyone that isn't bringing flyers

I gotta finalize my list ASAP to know what has to be painted

You realize that the top tier list right now involves flyer spam with 6+ Stormravens? Otherwise the list looks great.

So because you use Swarmlords ability in the shooting phase would a hybrid shooting/Genestealer blob approach be as good as it sounds?

Thinking our anti infantry fire power is well suited to peel away a lot of chaff and allow the double move and run Stealers to engage a lot of targets inflicting more damage and forcing retreats etc.

Wakshaani wrote:
Is anyone testing out a list with *no* monstrous creatures? It seems to be a solid syle in my head, giving Venomthrope protection widely while wasting antitank weapons that the opponent takes (ooo, you hit a Termagant with a Lascannon. Good work!) but I'm not sure if anyone's giving it a go other than me at this stage.

I tried an all infantry list yesterday with my first game of Tabletop Simulator. It was just 1000 pts and we both took casual lists.

Broodlord
Malanthrope
30 Termagants
20 Genestealers
6 Genestealers
3 Rippers
Lictor
3 Hive Guard with Impaler Cannon

We only made it till the end of turn 2, but it was already looking bad for me. He played a Tau list with a lot of Fire Warriors and some Crisis + Pathfinders. To be fair, I think the board was 6x4 so he had a big advantage.
I think all-infantry can work, but you have massive problems against some opponents with very good anti-horde capabilities. And most top tier lists can bring this: Guard, Stormraven Spam etc.
And you of course need a Malanthrope and/or Venomthropes.

Wakshaani wrote:
Is anyone testing out a list with *no* monstrous creatures? It seems to be a solid syle in my head, giving Venomthrope protection widely while wasting antitank weapons that the opponent takes (ooo, you hit a Termagant with a Lascannon. Good work!) but I'm not sure if anyone's giving it a go other than me at this stage.

Between sites I've seen a few people discuss this, multiple maxed out Genestealer units are basically the core of it for most people as the core threat. Supported with Gants and Venom or Malanthrope as you said. Seems potentially excellent to me. Malanthrope might still be better than Venom regardless of MC's though, it's basically untargetable in a list like this. Tyranid Warriors are another popular option for Synapse and just being generally decent Elites.



There's no reason it won't win games. The #1 reason not to is having to move a crap ton of models every single turn which will impact the practicality of taking it to tournament.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Wakshaani wrote:
Is anyone testing out a list with *no* monstrous creatures? It seems to be a solid syle in my head, giving Venomthrope protection widely while wasting antitank weapons that the opponent takes (ooo, you hit a Termagant with a Lascannon. Good work!) but I'm not sure if anyone's giving it a go other than me at this stage.

Between sites I've seen a few people discuss this, multiple maxed out Genestealer units are basically the core of it for most people as the core threat. Supported with Gants and Venom or Malanthrope as you said. Seems potentially excellent to me. Malanthrope might still be better than Venom regardless of MC's though, it's basically untargetable in a list like this. Tyranid Warriors are another popular option for Synapse and just being generally decent Elites.



There's no reason it won't win games. The #1 reason not to is having to move a crap ton of models every single turn which will impact the practicality of taking it to tournament.

Have you ever tried to take something like a Tyrannocyte to a tournament? I think this is the real Horror!!! ;-)
So I think the transport with Monsters can be much more challenging, however the actual playing is very cumbersome with a lot of models. But maybe not so much, if you buy regiment bases? I saw them being available for 40k now too.

Some more numbers!

Obvious disclaimer - these stats are figured at the optimal scenario for the Tyranids so take them as you will.

I fixed up my first lot of numbers (Nids vs screens). I'd forgotten the re-rollable 1s to wound on the Devilgants and the re-rolls to wound on the Wyvern. I'd also slightly miscalculated Necrosius' buff to the Poxwalkers.

I've added in some highlights to make it easier to see the most efficient / least efficient point per wound.

I was pretty surprised at some of the results, the Stranglethorn cannon actually out performs the Heavy Venom Cannon against T7 Vehicles (Storm Ravens / Valks). I'm also nearly certain the Monstrous Rending Claws are a mistake on the Hive Tyrant. I think they costed them at 0 points for the Broodlord. They're far superior than the alternatives and they're free...

It's pretty much always worth it to take Toxin Sacs on the HT, although I'd imagine most were doing that anyway. Smite is a nice bonus for the HT and let's him just pip the Exocrine and Devilgants as the best anti-flyer we have. As suspected taking 4 of anything is garbage, wether it's Talons, Devourers or Deathspitters. What I didn't expect is that for efficiency Rending Claws + any gun is pretty much equal. I'd probably still take Strangle Thorn Cannons myself as they're also good against MEQ and GEQ. And while they're more expensive than the other weapons they put out more wounds and there's only so many Hive Tyrants you can field, you'd want each one to be as lethal as possible.

Crones are somewhat of a complete let down unfortunately, Exocrines add another notch to their belt in terms of awesomeness.

Let me know if you have any other request!

*Please click on the images to get the full sized image

For the hive tyrant, is that for shooting and then charging?

How is the tyranofex vs flyers? Both with the fleshborer hive and also the flamer? I think the flamer can come out quite good.

 Niiai wrote:
For the hive tyrant, is that for shooting and then charging?

How is the tyranofex vs flyers? Both with the fleshborer hive and also the flamer? I think the flamer can come out quite good.

I'll run the Tyrannofex but I suspect he'll do quite poorly. The flamer and Hive are running 18'' ranges. I think he'll almost always need to move to get in range. If he manages to pull of a double shot, I think he'll be amazing.

Yeah all the numbers vs the flyers are including melee if the listed unit has the FLY keyword

The stationary tyranofex has supriced us before. Flyers move around a lot. It is not unlikly they end up within 18".

So Tyrannofex vs Valk / Stormraven is:

Acid Spray *Stationary = 3.94 wounds / 228 points / 57.87 points per wound
Acid Spray *Moved = 1.97 wounds / 228 points / 115.74 points per wound

Fleshborer Hive *Stationary = 1.92 wounds / 225 points / 117.19 points per wound
Fleshborer Hive *Moved = 0.96 wounds / 225 points / 234.38 points per wound

These are all including the Stinger Salvo.

The ideal scenario of letting off your flamer and salvo twice still puts him at slightly worse than a Crone who aren't too hot either.

Tnx. I had high hopes for the acid spray.

Wakshaani wrote:
Is anyone testing out a list with *no* monstrous creatures? It seems to be a solid syle in my head, giving Venomthrope protection widely while wasting antitank weapons that the opponent takes (ooo, you hit a Termagant with a Lascannon. Good work!) but I'm not sure if anyone's giving it a go other than me at this stage.

I have been considering it. I just finished assembling the last bits of a swarm box that had been sitting in my closet for most of 7th so I'm now happily sitting on 106 Hormagaunts and 90-odd Fleshborer Termagants. Trickiest part is getting the right balance between swarm units, damage dealers, and synapse coverage...

 Astmeister wrote:

Have you ever tried to take something like a Tyrannocyte to a tournament? I think this is the real Horror!!! ;-)

I just transport mine in the leftover boxes from Ramen soup 10-12 packs. The box is just the right height to keep them from wobbling around and keeps their tentacles contained so they won't snag on other things, and it fits two Tyrannocytes comfortably.