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What team are you playing on Jifel?

 jifel wrote:
Now that all the ATC lists are up, I figure I'll post my list for the event this weekend.

Spoiler:

Patriarch
Primus
20 Purestrains
18 Purestrains
18 Purestrains

Broodlord
Magus
29 Gants (10 Devourers)
3 rippers
3 rippers

Magus
Exocrine
Exocrine
Exocrine

Feel pretty good about this one in practice, here's hoping it does alright this weekend!

Random Broodlord for the Psychic power? His things don't buff your purestrains, not even the synapse so I'm just curious why you wouldn't go for the redundancy with 60 stealers of having two patriarchs. Sniping one is easy, two is quite the hassle and the magus is only good for powers as far as I've seen. Why not have dropped him for the patriarch, gain the 91 ish points of the magus and difference in brood/patriarch points and get... well anything. A malanthrope is a better babysitter, maybe broodlord is the cheapest HF psyker... but you could just go for the Zoans.

I built a similar list to this for a smaller tourney so I'm really really curious on your thinking behind this in case I'm missing something myself.Would love to pick your brain on those choices. The horror is good but I'm really thinking Iconwards are better for the catalyst effect because its AoE and not single target (Also you could get 3 iconwards for the price of a broodlord)

Requiet wrote:

 jifel wrote:
Now that all the ATC lists are up, I figure I'll post my list for the event this weekend.

Spoiler:

Patriarch
Primus
20 Purestrains
18 Purestrains
18 Purestrains

Broodlord
Magus
29 Gants (10 Devourers)
3 rippers
3 rippers

Magus
Exocrine
Exocrine
Exocrine

Feel pretty good about this one in practice, here's hoping it does alright this weekend!

Random Broodlord for the Psychic power? His things don't buff your purestrains, not even the synapse so I'm just curious why you wouldn't go for the redundancy with 60 stealers of having two patriarchs. Sniping one is easy, two is quite the hassle and the magus is only good for powers as far as I've seen. Why not have dropped him for the patriarch, gain the 91 ish points of the magus and difference in brood/patriarch points and get... well anything. A malanthrope is a better babysitter, maybe broodlord is the cheapest HF psyker... but you could just go for the Zoans.

I built a similar list to this for a smaller tourney so I'm really really curious on your thinking behind this in case I'm missing something myself.Would love to pick your brain on those choices. The horror is good but I'm really thinking Iconwards are better for the catalyst effect because its AoE and not single target (Also you could get 3 iconwards for the price of a broodlord)

My reasoning on the broodlord is that he is a psyker and can't be sniped. The Zoeys die too fast for me. The gants usually dont advance out of synapse range and the Broodlord hangs around midfield to buff the Exos while its needed. Sadly FW is not allowed at this event, otherwise a Malanthrope surely would have been in there instead. The Nid powers are too good to not have a psyker, and he was the only one who wouldnt be shot to hell sadly. And since the detachment has to be all GSC to ambush, I didnt want to have a Patriarch not ambushing but I'm already using both HQ slots in my Vanguard detachment. Snipers would be no bueno for me, but I also have a pretty good ability to reach out and touch my opponent, I've been able to eliminate snipers very quickly so far. Even then, I know I dont want them so with the team pairings system of ATC I should be able to avoid them.

And luke, I'm playing on Orlando Hereticus.

Razerous wrote:
So what is a good single weapon = / less than the dual-Sy-tals... that can pair with the rending claws?

Re-roll 1's to hit are great with a 2+ to-hit model?

I'm thinking think with regards to a winged hive tyrant, so perhaps a ranged weapons as either Onslaught can be used or wing-enhanced movement is less of an issue. Pew pew

The re-roll 1s only effects the Scy Tals though, not the rending claws. Regardless if you have both.

I think 2 Deathspitters and Rending Claws are the best option TAC for points per wounds effectiveness. As Astmeister said the Claws perform worse against T3 im raw damage (they out perform point per wound) however multi-wound T3 models are pretty rare. Non-Nurgle Heralds, Non-Astartes Imperium characters are about it and the claws put enough wounds on to them anyway.

I don't think I'd ever take 2 Sets of Scy Tals. Rending Claws + any gun are cheaper and put out more wounds on almost anything

I still refuse to take the rending claws, for the same reason i don't take GSC stealers. They are obvious mistakes waiting to be corrected.

Spoletta wrote:
I still refuse to take the rending claws, for the same reason i don't take GSC stealers. They are obvious mistakes waiting to be corrected.

Well since flyrants have only one free set of arms, I think its easy to argue that either the feet constitute scytals, or the wings constitute rending claws. I submitted the RC question to the FaQ peeps the day the index came out, and unlike a lot of my other Qs that were addressed, it was not. So personally I am going to be using RCs until otherwise stated, but won't be remodelling anything (aside from removing devourers...)

 Zande4 wrote:

Razerous wrote:
So what is a good single weapon = / less than the dual-Sy-tals... that can pair with the rending claws?

Re-roll 1's to hit are great with a 2+ to-hit model?

I'm thinking think with regards to a winged hive tyrant, so perhaps a ranged weapons as either Onslaught can be used or wing-enhanced movement is less of an issue. Pew pew

The re-roll 1s only effects the Scy Tals though, not the rending claws. Regardless if you have both.

I think 2 Deathspitters and Rending Claws are the best option TAC for points per wounds effectiveness. As Astmeister said the Claws perform worse against T3 im raw damage (they out perform point per wound) however multi-wound T3 models are pretty rare. Non-Nurgle Heralds, Non-Astartes Imperium characters are about it and the claws put enough wounds on to them anyway.

I don't think I'd ever take 2 Sets of Scy Tals. Rending Claws + any gun are cheaper and put out more wounds on almost anything

Nice - thank you for the correction.

Fair point - i was thinking the same too.

How much different do the death spitters look compared to the twin devs?

Razerous wrote:


Fair point - i was thinking the same too.

How much different do the death spitters look compared to the twin devs?

Its a longer nose, more like a rifle then the sponge type look of the devourers. I made some really awesome devs into a mouth back in the day and had all of my Mcs lol that, I hate to change that but I may just model the deathspitter sticking out of that :/


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jifel wrote:

Requiet wrote:

 jifel wrote:
Now that all the ATC lists are up, I figure I'll post my list for the event this weekend.

Spoiler:

Patriarch
Primus
20 Purestrains
18 Purestrains
18 Purestrains

Broodlord
Magus
29 Gants (10 Devourers)
3 rippers
3 rippers

Magus
Exocrine
Exocrine
Exocrine

Feel pretty good about this one in practice, here's hoping it does alright this weekend!

Random Broodlord for the Psychic power? His things don't buff your purestrains, not even the synapse so I'm just curious why you wouldn't go for the redundancy with 60 stealers of having two patriarchs. Sniping one is easy, two is quite the hassle and the magus is only good for powers as far as I've seen. Why not have dropped him for the patriarch, gain the 91 ish points of the magus and difference in brood/patriarch points and get... well anything. A malanthrope is a better babysitter, maybe broodlord is the cheapest HF psyker... but you could just go for the Zoans.

I built a similar list to this for a smaller tourney so I'm really really curious on your thinking behind this in case I'm missing something myself.Would love to pick your brain on those choices. The horror is good but I'm really thinking Iconwards are better for the catalyst effect because its AoE and not single target (Also you could get 3 iconwards for the price of a broodlord)

My reasoning on the broodlord is that he is a psyker and can't be sniped. The Zoeys die too fast for me. The gants usually dont advance out of synapse range and the Broodlord hangs around midfield to buff the Exos while its needed. Sadly FW is not allowed at this event, otherwise a Malanthrope surely would have been in there instead. The Nid powers are too good to not have a psyker, and he was the only one who wouldnt be shot to hell sadly. And since the detachment has to be all GSC to ambush, I didnt want to have a Patriarch not ambushing but I'm already using both HQ slots in my Vanguard detachment. Snipers would be no bueno for me, but I also have a pretty good ability to reach out and touch my opponent, I've been able to eliminate snipers very quickly so far. Even then, I know I dont want them so with the team pairings system of ATC I should be able to avoid them.

And luke, I'm playing on Orlando Hereticus.

Thanks it was what I assumed (Nontarget psyker) just hurts for the points as a babysitter. I really really wish tyranid primes could get powers. Its kind of asinine that those and Old one eye are about our only non-fw psyker HQs. If the Prime was a psyker you could fit him and the iconward together for the price of a brood :/ Only in my dreams xD

My dreams as well! But the Nid powers are so good that I couldn't let go of him. Tragic for points, but he brings options.

 jifel wrote:
My dreams as well! But the Nid powers are so good that I couldn't let go of him. Tragic for points, but he brings options.

Its almost like being a marine player and finally kitting out your Devastator sergeant to kick some butt xD

Spoletta wrote:
I still refuse to take the rending claws, for the same reason i don't take GSC stealers. They are obvious mistakes waiting to be corrected.

Yeah, I'm not going to go out and convert some claws anytime soon until the Tyranid codex comes out and confirms that the option is in. Until then, i'll probably proxy the claws,

 rollawaythestone wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
I still refuse to take the rending claws, for the same reason i don't take GSC stealers. They are obvious mistakes waiting to be corrected.

Yeah, I'm not going to go out and convert some claws anytime soon until the Tyranid codex comes out and confirms that the option is in. Until then, i'll probably proxy the claws,

Me too. Non-Tyranid players will not even know the difference anyway.

I'm pretty sure the RC on the Hive Tyrant isn't a mistake, the option has been there since forever. What probably is a mistake is the RC being free, but eventually all point costs will change anyway.

ForgeWorld FAQ is up.
XENOS Link: https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/40K_8th_ed_Update_Imperial_Armour_Index_Xenos_ver_1.0.pdf
Main page Link: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/15/new-and-updated-forge-world-faqs-july16gw-homepage-post-2/

win!

Tyran wrote:
I'm pretty sure the RC on the Hive Tyrant isn't a mistake, the option has been there since forever. What probably is a mistake is the RC being free, but eventually all point costs will change anyway.

I'm not sure it's a mistake at all. It's survived multiple rounds of FAQ's and undoubtedly this question was asked to GW.

It's not like they're going to put "yes they are supposed to be that many points" in the FAQ.

As far as GSC stealers being a mistake, it's certainly possible and I expect that they'll get errata'd back to being 12 points, or the wargear for GSC claws will become 2 like in the Nid codex.

But even at 12 points per model, they are insanely efficient. Would not take a single less stealer than I currently am, even at 12 ppm.

What's the tyranid answer to heavy armor? I have a friend that plays nids and I kinda crushed him with a list running Magnus and Hellforged Deimos Vindicators. His lascannon equivalents seemed very weak, hitting on a 4+ before I blasted them down a weapon profile. I imagine that a proper tyranids list is probably more melee oriented than what he was running?

Arachnofiend wrote:
What's the tyranid answer to heavy armor? I have a friend that plays nids and I kinda crushed him with a list running Magnus and Hellforged Deimos Vindicators. His lascannon equivalents seemed very weak, hitting on a 4+ before I blasted them down a weapon profile. I imagine that a proper tyranids list is probably more melee oriented than what he was running?

Tell him to get a hold of 40x Genestealers and a broodlord or two xD These things are the answer to anything that they can hit. But yeah shooting is not what we're good at. We're good at a blend of tactics, heavy target saturation, decent at psykers and awesome in melee (Can stand toe-to-toe with Adeptus Custodes with the nids at a 150 point disadvantage)

Arachnofiend wrote:
What's the tyranid answer to heavy armor? I have a friend that plays nids and I kinda crushed him with a list running Magnus and Hellforged Deimos Vindicators. His lascannon equivalents seemed very weak, hitting on a 4+ before I blasted them down a weapon profile. I imagine that a proper tyranids list is probably more melee oriented than what he was running?

Typically yes Nids assault very well and that supplements their subpar shooting. Exocrines are still a great shooting unit though.

Recently played a 1000 point game where I was experimenting with some neato theories.

My list:
Broodlord
3x Zoan
3x Hiveguard
Deathleaper
6x genes
26 x terms (20 devs 6 flesh)
Exocrine

His Imperial Fist List
Lysander:
15 spess muhreens
1 dreadnought asscan fist SB
3 Centurions 1 with missile, 2 las, 2 with 2x hurricanes and 2x HB
Razorback with HB

Played maelstorm objectives the one where you start with 6 and go down to 5 4 3 2 1 etc.

I wanted to try and experiment with shooty nids and I would definitely speak to their efficacy. At least the hive guard and the exocrine.

6x genes with catalyst took his entire lists shooting before finally dying. Allowed my brood lord to turn 2 charge and blow up the razor back. Unfortunately he then got charged by lysander. Ultimately I didnt run enough stealers to really cause any significant threat. Regardless, I ran my termagants up the field as well. and basically got in a shooting match with the tacticals.

Deathleaper managed to get the primaris lieutenant and the dreadnought down to 1 would each before dying. Then the Zoans just smited both to death.

Termagants underperformed. It was kind of bizzare but multiple times I would roll 20+ shots, then hit like 15, then wound like 5 times lol. Then he made all his saves. They killed 2 tacticals before dying. Little dissapointing but the dice gods were against their survival.

Exocrine managed to wipe a Tac squad, and put some damage on the razorback and centurions. Got himself a nice piece of cover and great view of the battlefield and went to town. Did a ton of damage.

Hive guard knocked wounds off Lysander the dreadnought and a lot of wounds off the centurions. Overall i really liked the way they are almost always a threat around the board. They got a nice nook out of LOS and were able to deal a good amount of damage.

Game came down to three tacticals(one with HB)versus 1 zoanthrope. Game ended after turn 6. and the zoan on one wound. Overall it was a great game, fairly balanced. TBH I think I shouldve cut the brood and genes and gone with a shooty HT. I think I wouldve been able to win with that but sometimes I can't resist the good old broodlord genestealer wombo combo.

Olenos wrote:
Recently played a 1000 point game where I was experimenting with some neato theories.
Termagants underperformed. It was kind of bizzare but multiple times I would roll 20+ shots, then hit like 15, then wound like 5 times lol. Then he made all his saves. They killed 2 tacticals before dying. Little dissapointing but the dice gods were against their survival.

Is this that far from the averadge? 20 shots, 10 hit. 5 wound, 4 saves? 5 saves is not that far from the averadge roll.

 Niiai wrote:

Olenos wrote:
Recently played a 1000 point game where I was experimenting with some neato theories.
Termagants underperformed. It was kind of bizzare but multiple times I would roll 20+ shots, then hit like 15, then wound like 5 times lol. Then he made all his saves. They killed 2 tacticals before dying. Little dissapointing but the dice gods were against their survival.

Is this that far from the averadge? 20 shots, 10 hit. 5 wound, 4 saves? 5 saves is not that far from the averadge roll.

It's about a 40% likelihood that he loses no marines. Gants really aren't known for their amazing firepower.

Actually if you remember from the mathhammer averadge gaunt's come out on topp of the shooting list. Stationary Tyranifex coming in second and dakkafexes comes in 3rd.

I would say gaunts has an amazing fire power, being our best unit for shooting. If they are not good enough, then perhaps we should look to the mellee phase to find our wounds.

 Niiai wrote:
Actually if you remember from the mathhammer averadge gaunt's come out on topp of the shooting list. Stationary Tyranifex coming in second and dakkafexes comes in 3rd.

I would say gaunts has an amazing fire power, being our best unit for shooting. If they are not good enough, then perhaps we should look to the mellee phase to find our wounds.

Obviously assault is our strength. Pound for pound they do come out looking good mathematically, but good luck getting them into range before someone sends a stiff breeze their way and they fall over and die. You could use things like a Trygon tunnel, but that increases the cost of your "gun platform" dramatically (by like 180 points)

 luke1705 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Actually if you remember from the mathhammer averadge gaunt's come out on topp of the shooting list. Stationary Tyranifex coming in second and dakkafexes comes in 3rd.

I would say gaunts has an amazing fire power, being our best unit for shooting. If they are not good enough, then perhaps we should look to the mellee phase to find our wounds.

Obviously assault is our strength. Pound for pound they do come out looking good mathematically, but good luck getting them into range before someone sends a stiff breeze their way and they fall over and die. You could use things like a Trygon tunnel, but that increases the cost of your "gun platform" dramatically (by like 180 points)

Yeah I think a Trygon Tunnel wouldve helped But I Couldnt fit that in within 1k points. The most amount of gants that in range at any one time was like a dozen. Juxtapose that with a trygon tunnel and I think that they could potentially be viable. Maybe. The math says 8.75 dead, which combined with morale is probably a unit wipe. I will take that any day of the week. If a tac squad is about 175 points, you just wiped that and they now have 42 wounds in their deployment zone to deal with.

My friend plays mostly tyranids so i used this thread for my "research purposes".

Thanks for all the good content, i`ll keep on stalking - to be fair i`ll give him some of the good advice.

Sadly he doesn`t like gene stealers (and biovores), i would love to fight them with my boyz and i think they would add a good punch.
With this exceptions he plays all the good stuff this thread is talking about.

(Fly)rant, swarmlord, gaunts, Tervigon, Trygon, Hiveguard, Cyte, Warriors, Exocrine

Any basic tipps you would give him vs greenskins?
(Good mix of dakka, mech and CC, no horde spam.)

 Grotrebel wrote:
My friend plays mostly tyranids so i used this thread for my "research purposes".

Thanks for all the good content, i`ll keep on stalking - to be fair i`ll give him some of the good advice.

Sadly he doesn`t like gene stealers (and biovores), i would love to fight them with my boyz and i think they would add a good punch.
With this exceptions he plays all the good stuff this thread is talking about.

(Fly)rant, swarmlord, gaunts, Tervigon, Trygon, Hiveguard, Cyte, Warriors, Exocrine

Any basic tipps you would give him vs greenskins?
(Good mix of dakka, mech and CC, no horde spam.)

If your friend likes the swarmlord he can catapult any dedicated CC unit into CC, not just genestealers. Or is he only shooty nids? I would recomend ravagers.

Raveners are great cc units also

Yeah he is great to bring another unit (or himself) into CC.
Think he's gonna put him in the Cyte mostly which brings him, maybe Flyrant, the Trygon and 1 unit of gaunts in front of my army while the rest advances for wave 2 or gives support fire.
2/3 of his army tend to CC but he has some units like the warriors that are equipped for both.

Forgot about his raveners but he has them as well and they add some pressure to his list.

The funny thing is he thinks his nids are not that good but I certainly disagree.

Overall i love the new tyranids they look pretty tough and there are like no models that are totally unplayable.
Regret selling my nids some time ago. :(

They have many possibilities for a critical first strike which is a huge thing in 8th edition.
Seen many games and battle reports where one opponent has been tabled after the first 2-4 rounds.


Btw what is your opinion on the winged warriors?
Seems to me for most people they are to expensive though they can hit really hard and might get not enough attention when you bring enough stuff to put the enemy under pressure.

I love the idea of an ultrafast attack swarm where 1/2 deploys in reserve and almost everything else are fast units which brings almost your whole army in the enemys deployment zone by turn 1-2.

 Grotrebel wrote:


The funny thing is he thinks his nids are not that good but I certainly disagree.

Nids can be very one-dimensional if you build them to be all-out assault. They are (imo) the best army at pure assault in the game, but pure assault has weaknesses. Even if our assault units have fly (RC shrikes are actually amazing for this), however, they can't tear through bubble wrap if the opponent places his screening units appropriately. So you have to bring some guns, and if you don't have enough of or any at all, that'll definitely be your undoing.

 Grotrebel wrote:


Btw what is your opinion on the winged warriors?
Seems to me for most people they are to expensive though they can hit really hard and might get not enough attention when you bring enough stuff to put the enemy under pressure.

They are expensive but there is no better unit, pound for pound, if you want to assault enemy flyers. They're fast, much more durable than they used to be, synapse and are going to be underestimated even by a good opponent. Great sleeper unit, although when focused down appropriately, their durability is still a little concerning. I might be more inclined to pay more for a number of primes unless you're running a fair amount of gargoyles with the shrikes.

 Grotrebel wrote:


I love the idea of an ultrafast attack swarm where 1/2 deploys in reserve and almost everything else are fast units which brings almost your whole army in the enemys deployment zone by turn 1-2.

Jy2, a prominent Tyranids player for many years, had an army similar to this in 6th and I think it's one of the best ways to play Nids. Called it MTO, or Maximum Threat Overload. Tyranids can do this better than almost any other army (especially if you coordinate with GSC) and it's very difficult for almost any army to deal with.