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 Amishprn86 wrote:
Question (I have some converted Biovores, i am boycotting finecast).

I know Biovores are 60mm, but did they always come on 60mm? I remember many pictures having both 60mm AND 40mm, so i did 40mm since i had those bases and there was pictures with them (on the GW website). I thought i saw my old friends buy them and came with 40mm, as well. Tho the 6th ed codex shows a 60mm.

Does anyone else have theirs on 40mm like me?

I just bought a Biovore from the local GW - it came on a 40mm base. Finecast. It might have sat on a shelf for who knows how long though

Warriors are confusing for me - I have 6 with 50mm bases that came with them unbuilt and 9 with 40mm bases. Hive Guard are on 40mm bases as well

 Niiai wrote:
How can you make a claim that no-one cares? That is a huge hyperbole. I have players in my aria I know cares about this. They have even gone to great lenghts about it.

I think it's awesome that you wrote an opera about 40k.

 Stevefamine wrote:


I just bought a Biovore from the local GW - it came on a 40mm base. Finecast. It might have sat on a shelf for who knows how long though

Warriors are confusing for me - I have 6 with 50mm bases that came with them unbuilt and 9 with 40mm bases. Hive Guard are on 40mm bases as well

Apparently it depends on where you got them from.

Most of the standalone Warrior boxes provide them on 40mm. Some of the older army box-sets provided them with 50mm bases. Similarly, some older box-sets had Carnifexes on 105mm oval bases.

This link has a pretty good run down of which bases have been provided to which models, as well as outlining the inconsistencies.

So I email GW about the bases, they said use w/e base size i want. This was basically their stance in 7th, but new edition means all old rules are gone, so i wanted to make sure.

https://imgur.com/deOCqrL

I can't help but feel that saying you can use what you want is a kind of cop-out when you consider base to base and such is a key mechanic

Kind of thing that maybe has to be raised higher than the phone trollz?

Unfortunetly phone calls and emails and facebook are incredibly unreliable sources that carry no actual wieght.

I understand that, but given past editions (7th) with official rulings on it, you can base your models what you feel is appropriate (outside of modeling for advantage) it will forever be a grey area i think. Im just pointing out that it "seems" their stance is the same from 7th as of right now. Take it how you will.

Oh my, had my first game against gulliman today. The game ended turn 5, I had 8 points, he had 9. But I had so little left. It sort of had a caskading effect.

Guliman + long ranged gunline is the devil. Yes I know I am late to the party when it comes toe xperience this, but it quite clearly was as bad as it looked in paper. :-)

Edit:

I want tio try out some cultist allies. I have acess to 2 maguses, 1 primus, 1 patriarch, 1 cult chimera and a group of genestealers. Witch one of them are most copetettive? Are the genstealers to expsensive at 15 points each? should I just take the HQ's?

Edit 2:

Just wondering if somebody has mathhammered the averedge chance of killing guliman with the swarmlord in one turn of combat? Math says no. Of the 6 boneswords attacks only 1 hits, wounds and pass the 3++ save, dealing 3,5 damage. even if by some moracle the swarm lord takes him out there is a 50% chaance guliman comes right back out on 1 wound.

And can I say if the Tyranids in general, and the Swarmlord in particular, has not evolved in the 100 year jump in the setting I will be very disapointed.

 TonyH122 wrote:

 Tsol wrote:
Sooo I've been playing my Tyranids in preperation of getting ready for the Codex drop. And I am super sad to see a couple of my old favorites suck but very happy with the army overall from index rules.

Zoanthropes. They are expensive and not worth their points. And their warpblast is a farcry of what it used to be. I hope they completely rewrite this rule in the codex.

Malaceptor is one of my favorite looking models, too bad it sucks. Better than 7th. Still hot trash. Hope they completely rework this model's rules.

Carnifexes, need a slight points drop. Other than that like them! Though not having old one eye is not proper if you are running more than two.

Venonthropes, need to be able to do more damage in melee. Give them WS3 and 3 attacks base. If not, allow their spore to block monsterious creatures to make them more useful.

Lictors: I would like the lictors to have 4 attacks base. Otherwise pretty good.

Hive Tyrant: really really really really either needs a Relic to give him +1 to saves (2+/4++)* cannot be taken with wings* or recive a sizable drop in points or a craptton more wounds added. As of right now, I have yet to play a game where he isn't focused fired and kill within the first two rounds of the game. If your opponent knows anything about Tyranids. He will throw Laz Cannons, missle, grav, melta, plasma at it. And to be blunt the Hive Tyrant is not tough enough to withstand the focus fire he gets. Other than that, great model.

Overall, the Tyranids feel and play pretty good from the index. Despite my nitpicks, I like the way they play, though their biggest problem imho is their big bugs are overall too expensive. Slide their points down across the whole faction and I think the army will be gold.

Thoughts?

Sad that, wanting to get into Tyranids, some of these are my favourite too (Hive Tyrants, Carnifexes, and Zoanthropes), and it's sad to hear they're a bit below par. Can I ask, what units have you found to be useful and strong in your games?

Don't get me wrong. The army is very competitive even without a codex, but it does have some issues once I had become familiar with them in this edition. Hive Tyrants lack survivability, if they are actually able to get into melee, they will do work. Tyrand Guard are a must if you don't want it blown off the table by turn two. DON"T upgrade the tyrant Guard. They are ablative wounds, nothing more. Though if you take them just as mini carnifexes they can do some work. Carnifexes are simply overcosted, they need about a 30pts drop or give them a few more wounds. Also, only take them if you intend to take a character. Sadly GW rules writers built the Carnifex brood around being lead by Old one eye, this heavy forced hand restricts how you can play them effectivly. Still good, but you're not playing right if you don't take him along with them. Zoananthropes are some of my favorite looking models. Again, I'll just repeat myself, I hope they completly redo their rules. As is, they are both boring and not good.

As for whats good? Warriors. Warriors stock or kitted out are great. Guant of all flavors; these pains in the butts are fantastic points per value. Hormaguant can consolidate 6" into enemies, making them absurdly good if they somehow survive a turn ot two of being shot at. Regualar gaunts by themselves are hot garbage untill you do some fun things with them. Such as take 30 guants give 15 or 10 of them devilgaunts and have them sit next to a Tervigon and just keep replenishing the squad. They get better at range due to their blob rule and reinforce from the tervigon if hit too much. Also, 20 man blob of devilgaunts inside a sporepod behind enemy lines is a hoot. Rippers, although they don't do jack, now have some interesting utility, they can deepsrike or tie up tanks making them annoying and fun.

Biovores and just spore mines in general are fantastic psycological weapons. Mortal wounds make people make rash decisions. Venomthropes are garbage but that sweet -1 to hit makes them worth taking, but don't expect them to be helpful after turn two. They will either be dead or no longer in range of the army to give them their buff.

Ravenors, Red Terror, Trygon Prime are fun as hell. They pop up, unload lots of shots and then charge into melee and are good at everything, though a bit weak in taking a hit. Mawloc is gak. Though it is fun to scare your opponets with is rules, but in practice he doesn't do much.

Genestealers. Hot. Damn. They are what they should be and somehow are even more terryfing when accompandied by big daddy stealer.

LIctors are great. They don't kill too much but they tie up and can melee snipe heavy weapons units and thier precense along forces your opponent to carefuly place and support things, controlling how he moves which in the end, benefits you.

As for the others I don't have good input yet as I am still playing with the army.

Sim-Life wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Carnifex's are not bad, honestly they are great in non tournament (GT)

I strongly disagree. I play in a very casual group and I frequently ran carnifexes in my first couple of games of 8th and they were awful. They could barely dent a tank with claws and THREE (3) got bogged down in a few Tac Marine units when given two scything talons.

4 attacks at WS4+ is awful.

Deathspitters, Bio-plasma, and dirt cheap, makes them my favorite unit in the game

different strokes

take 6 tho if you run em

Dynas wrote:
I imagine they do, even if its "not official."

Actually they plain out said that they don't. Which is a big part of the reason why i agree in not allowing FW to events.

 Niiai wrote:

Just wondering if somebody has mathhammered the averedge chance of killing guliman with the swarmlord in one turn of combat? Math says no. Of the 6 boneswords attacks only 1 hits, wounds and pass the 3++ save, dealing 3,5 damage. even if by some moracle the swarm lord takes him out there is a 50% chaance guliman comes right back out on 1 wound.

I ran the stats for the swarmlord and Guilliman through an excel sheet I have for finding the expected damage. On average, the swarmlord does 4.028 damage against him, including the tail. But this does not mean that you can't kill him in one shot. I therefore simulated the attacks in python to see how often you get the kill in one turn. I performed the random attacks 100000 times. Guilliman died about 9000 of these times. So, on average, you would expect the swarmlord to kill Guilliman in one combat phase about 9% of the time. This also includes the tail, and does not include his ability to live again.

If the average is 4 damage it says everything you need right there. Your 9% is again cut down to 4,5. And he will probably use a commanf point for re-roll some.where in there.

Out of interest, what are the odds of Bobby G instakilling our boi?

 Tsol wrote:

 TonyH122 wrote:

 Tsol wrote:
Sooo I've been playing my Tyranids in preperation of getting ready for the Codex drop. And I am super sad to see a couple of my old favorites suck but very happy with the army overall from index rules.

Zoanthropes. They are expensive and not worth their points. And their warpblast is a farcry of what it used to be. I hope they completely rewrite this rule in the codex.

Malaceptor is one of my favorite looking models, too bad it sucks. Better than 7th. Still hot trash. Hope they completely rework this model's rules.

Carnifexes, need a slight points drop. Other than that like them! Though not having old one eye is not proper if you are running more than two.

Venonthropes, need to be able to do more damage in melee. Give them WS3 and 3 attacks base. If not, allow their spore to block monsterious creatures to make them more useful.

Lictors: I would like the lictors to have 4 attacks base. Otherwise pretty good.

Hive Tyrant: really really really really either needs a Relic to give him +1 to saves (2+/4++)* cannot be taken with wings* or recive a sizable drop in points or a craptton more wounds added. As of right now, I have yet to play a game where he isn't focused fired and kill within the first two rounds of the game. If your opponent knows anything about Tyranids. He will throw Laz Cannons, missle, grav, melta, plasma at it. And to be blunt the Hive Tyrant is not tough enough to withstand the focus fire he gets. Other than that, great model.

Overall, the Tyranids feel and play pretty good from the index. Despite my nitpicks, I like the way they play, though their biggest problem imho is their big bugs are overall too expensive. Slide their points down across the whole faction and I think the army will be gold.

Thoughts?

Sad that, wanting to get into Tyranids, some of these are my favourite too (Hive Tyrants, Carnifexes, and Zoanthropes), and it's sad to hear they're a bit below par. Can I ask, what units have you found to be useful and strong in your games?

Don't get me wrong. The army is very competitive even without a codex, but it does have some issues once I had become familiar with them in this edition. Hive Tyrants lack survivability, if they are actually able to get into melee, they will do work. Tyrand Guard are a must if you don't want it blown off the table by turn two. DON"T upgrade the tyrant Guard. They are ablative wounds, nothing more. Though if you take them just as mini carnifexes they can do some work. Carnifexes are simply overcosted, they need about a 30pts drop or give them a few more wounds. Also, only take them if you intend to take a character. Sadly GW rules writers built the Carnifex brood around being lead by Old one eye, this heavy forced hand restricts how you can play them effectivly. Still good, but you're not playing right if you don't take him along with them. Zoananthropes are some of my favorite looking models. Again, I'll just repeat myself, I hope they completly redo their rules. As is, they are both boring and not good.

As for whats good? Warriors. Warriors stock or kitted out are great. Guant of all flavors; these pains in the butts are fantastic points per value. Hormaguant can consolidate 6" into enemies, making them absurdly good if they somehow survive a turn ot two of being shot at. Regualar gaunts by themselves are hot garbage untill you do some fun things with them. Such as take 30 guants give 15 or 10 of them devilgaunts and have them sit next to a Tervigon and just keep replenishing the squad. They get better at range due to their blob rule and reinforce from the tervigon if hit too much. Also, 20 man blob of devilgaunts inside a sporepod behind enemy lines is a hoot. Rippers, although they don't do jack, now have some interesting utility, they can deepsrike or tie up tanks making them annoying and fun.

Biovores and just spore mines in general are fantastic psycological weapons. Mortal wounds make people make rash decisions. Venomthropes are garbage but that sweet -1 to hit makes them worth taking, but don't expect them to be helpful after turn two. They will either be dead or no longer in range of the army to give them their buff.

Ravenors, Red Terror, Trygon Prime are fun as hell. They pop up, unload lots of shots and then charge into melee and are good at everything, though a bit weak in taking a hit. Mawloc is gak. Though it is fun to scare your opponets with is rules, but in practice he doesn't do much.

Genestealers. Hot. Damn. They are what they should be and somehow are even more terryfing when accompandied by big daddy stealer.

LIctors are great. They don't kill too much but they tie up and can melee snipe heavy weapons units and thier precense along forces your opponent to carefuly place and support things, controlling how he moves which in the end, benefits you.

As for the others I don't have good input yet as I am still playing with the army.

Thanks for the follow up! Just one question. Being new to Nids, and reading around, I haven't seen anyone else impressed by warriors. How are you running them?

 Niiai wrote:
If the average is 4 damage it says everything you need right there. Your 9% is again cut down to 4,5. And he will probably use a commanf point for re-roll some.where in there.

I too want to know how easy it is for Gman to kill the Swarmlord and also i saw you signature, i too struggle (made a comment on it, dont want to go into detail here).

 TonyH122 wrote:

Thanks for the follow up! Just one question. Being new to Nids, and reading around, I haven't seen anyone else impressed by warriors. How are you running them?

Ive seen almost nothing but glowing reviews for warriors (and by extension shrikes).

Personally I kit out warriors with scytal, deathspitters, and a biocannon. Broods of 3-6.

Shrikes I go Scytal, Boneswords, flesh hooks, and adrenal glands.

Warriors are for synapse in mid/backfield with fire support.

Shrikes are melee surgical strike units and front line synapse to support fast melee broods (Genestealers/hormagaunts). Get in and get chopping.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
If the average is 4 damage it says everything you need right there. Your 9% is again cut down to 4,5. And he will probably use a commanf point for re-roll some.where in there.

I too want to know how easy it is for Gman to kill the Swarmlord and also i saw you signature, i too struggle (made a comment on it, dont want to go into detail here).

The only time I ran Swarmy vs Bobby G I managed to Perils on the Swarmlord and the Marines managed to cast Null Zone (he survived a Stealer charge somehow) near him. The Swarmlord got the charge and one-shotted Guilliman who then got back up and one-shotted him back.

Sadly, Swarmy can't resurrect. In all honesty I think Null Zone was moot since fighting against Girlyman basically means you're eating 6 wounds that all cause 3 damage and you can't save them all barring some crazy luck.

Not so much glowing reviews for Warriors, as reviews that say they don't suck and have some utility.

As for Hormagaunts, the 6" consolidate is useful. But the caveat that they have to stay alive is a big one. Right now they are overcosted compared to a lot of units in other armies with similar roles. The fact that Kroot Hounds are better is kind of silly.

No way I'd put much into a Nid army right now, with the codex so close.

Yeah, IMO all gants (H-T-G) need to be 1 point cheaper.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah, IMO all gants (H-T-G) need to be 1 point cheaper.

Agreed, or +1 Armour Save

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah, IMO all gants (H-T-G) need to be 1 point cheaper.

Agreed, or +1 Armour Save

I'd rather be cheaper to field more, just cooler looking, but +1 armor would most likely be better over all, i just want to see swarms

 Amishprn86 wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah, IMO all gants (H-T-G) need to be 1 point cheaper.

Agreed, or +1 Armour Save

I'd rather be cheaper to field more, just cooler looking, but +1 armor would most likely be better over all, i just want to see swarms

Tyranids are swarmy enough as it is. As an ork player I will say that 6 points per model and below can quickly lead to 2 hour first turns.

As for hormagaunts I think they have a weak statline, but 6" pile-in and consolidate is EPIC. It is literally one of the best special abilities in the game.

Orks are S4/T4 and has a pistol tho. Hgants being S3/T3 with no shooting, is 1pt difference really balanced tho?

Hgants should be 4pts for sure, i can see Tgants staying 4pts, but Hgants really need to be 1pt cheaper and so does goyles.

Edit: the 6" is cool sure but its not any stronger than many of special rules and it is easy countered by an extra couple inches placement, unless you get a turn 1 charge via Trygon/Pod but Genestealers will Kill the target and still have a chance to consolidate into combat anyways. Where Hgants most likely wont kill the target.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Orks are S4/T4 and has a pistol tho. Hgants being S3/T3 with no shooting, is 1pt difference really balanced tho?

Hgants should be 4pts for sure, i can see Tgants staying 4pts, but Hgants really need to be 1pt cheaper and so does goyles.

Edit: the 6" is cool sure but its not any stronger than many of special rules and it is easy countered by an extra couple inches placement, unless you get a turn 1 charge via Trygon/Pod but Genestealers will Kill the target and still have a chance to consolidate into combat anyways. Where Hgants most likely wont kill the target.

I definately think Orks boyz are better than hormagaunts. I just think gaunts and termagants should be buffed rather then given a one point price reduction.

pismakron wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Orks are S4/T4 and has a pistol tho. Hgants being S3/T3 with no shooting, is 1pt difference really balanced tho?

Hgants should be 4pts for sure, i can see Tgants staying 4pts, but Hgants really need to be 1pt cheaper and so does goyles.

Edit: the 6" is cool sure but its not any stronger than many of special rules and it is easy countered by an extra couple inches placement, unless you get a turn 1 charge via Trygon/Pod but Genestealers will Kill the target and still have a chance to consolidate into combat anyways. Where Hgants most likely wont kill the target.

I definately think Orks boyz are better than hormagaunts. I just think gaunts and termagants should be buffed rather then given a one point price reduction.

That makes since, and i understand you point.

Hormagaunts lack in the "killy" department, apart from that they work well. Frail but high mobility.
They need either S4 or Ws 3+.

Just wondering. Do any of you have any competetive list in the 2000 point range? Preferably not so much IG, but whatever floats your boat. :-)

Spoletta wrote:
Hormagaunts lack in the "killy" department, apart from that they work well. Frail but high mobility.
They need either S4 or Ws 3+.

They aren't supposed to be killy, they're designed to bog down the enemy with numbers and roll so many dice that statistically they should kill some guys by weight of dice. They (and gants) need to be cheaper. Having rules that benefit them in units of 20+ is nice but I rarely want to field that in units that size because they're too expensive and frail.

I can deal with frail and weak but only when the points are appropriate.

Either S4 or WS3 would be a good solution, make them somewhat of a threat in numbers. Better list synergy as well, which is likely when the codex hits.