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 Niiai wrote:
What is a soup list?

A mish mash of a bunch of armies. Guard with a space marine chapter and knight for some imperial soup.

Cool term.

Can this be aplied to everything, or is it mostly imperials that share this keyword?

Everything.

Aeldari Soup is Eldar, DE, Harlequins
Chaos Soup is all the Chaos
Tyranids, GSC, IG can be also

Tho SM has the LARGEST soup, where Eldar-kin, CSM/Daemon, and Nids have rules written into them synergies with each other and it is know to be play together (aka GSC rule and Ynnari), Imperial doesnt have that synergy and are more-so seen as Sm, IG, SOB as separate Factions when really they are 1 faction with many Sub-factions.

Most players get but hurt about Imperial Soup b.c their is an infinite amount of more options than Nids/GSC/Ig and Aeldari soup.

A good example of a Aeldari Soup that EVERYONE HATED was when 6th 1st came out and the Eldar book was new, BUT the DE book was still a 5th edition codex.
You could have 10 Khymeras, a Beastmaster, The Baron, a Farseer and a Shadowseer in 1 unit for a 4++, Hit and Run, FnP, cant be target for shooting outside of 2d6, melee monster, moving 12" a turn, ignore terrain.

It was the 1st Deathstar of 6th, you can look up Beast pack Deathstar for more info on google.

But over all soup sitn bad, its when you can have imbalance characters buffing armies outside of their codes that is bad, like Guilliman, and then having another character like St. Celestine in a IG army, thats what players dont like.

EDIT: Nevermind, Amishprn86 got in ahead of me

 Niiai wrote:
Cool term.

Can this be aplied to everything, or is it mostly imperials that share this keyword?

Anyone. Tyranid soup is nids gsc and ig.

Chaos soup etc etc...


Imperium of just has the easiest time of it with the best results.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SCREAMER KILLERS

Picked up another 10 gargoyles to work on. I wanted to know what model represents the tyranid prime model? It appears that the warrior fits the bill, am I correct?

 luke1705 wrote:
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SCREAMER KILLERS

Who cares, walking 6 inch and dying with new cool options isn't helpful.

Tarval wrote:
Picked up another 10 gargoyles to work on. I wanted to know what model represents the tyranid prime model? It appears that the warrior fits the bill, am I correct?

The Warrior Kit atm has the Bits to make the Warriors Prime, since you are new to Tyranids, back in the day Warriors were HQ's and as time went by they kept a better one as HQ and then made them troops also, hence why they are the same kit.

In the future i'm sure they will be different kits.

Added: If you buy a Warrior box and you really like warriors, even tho you are going to "miss" a warrior from the unit if you make one Into a Prime, give each warriors a Bio-range Weapon (The heavy looking 2) and just buy another Box of 3, that way you have 3 basic ones and 2 with special weapons. Of make 3 different primes lol, w/e floats you boat, just an idea for you.

shogun wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SCREAMER KILLERS

Who cares, walking 6 inch and dying with new cool options isn't helpful.

Kinda agree, honestly cant tell till we see the Fleets, if you can have -2 to hit in total, might be survivable, or if we can give out more double movements.

We dont know how expensive (cheap) screamer killers will be. But it looks really promising. If we getvsome good delivery methods or whatever they could be amazing. Gotta wait to see.

I'm waiting to know if they received some offensive buffs. I'm fine with walking a cfex to the other side, as long as it breaks what it touches.

shogun wrote:

Tsol wrote: Its hard to say much about them other than they are one of the most flexible units in the game and can fill any role you give them.

Thats another way of saying they're not particular good at anything. Walking slowly towards the enemy without any great damage output doesn't make a great unit. 8th edition is all about doing as much damage first and second turn and warriors suck at that.

Snake Tortoise wrote:I think warriors get such mixed reviews because they are an unusual unit that aren't easy to compare with common units from other factions. They're often compared with tactical squads but have as much in common (or more) with bloodcrushers or ogryns. They have a commissar-like fearless aura and obsec, can be somewhat expensive and elite, or (if run with dual talons) are more like horde infantry at 6.66 points per wound. No wonder they divide opinion so much

That's because a lot of casual tyranid players that are playing against other casual armies, are capable of actually making an armylist that works with different tyranid threats. At that game the warriors are a good deal but even then other tyranid units are better in a particular role. Against any semi-competitive enemy army it doesn't work because the tyranid units simply come in at manageable chucks and get blown to pieces. Warriors that walk 2/3 turns before the can actually do anything (useful) suck at that competitive game.

I will say not quite true, but I understand your reasoning. Warriors are excellent at close combat if you kit them for it. To me saying that Warriors are not good at anything is like saying a Space Marine veteran squad is not good at anything: until you gear it. They can be kitted out to be close range support, long range support anti anti and so forth. I am not exaggerating when I say they can be kittted out to handle any target. Yes, the base squad is in and of itself not great but you can tool it to do anything you want or need. In all my games Warriors have performed well, better than any other units other than my guants. But I fully admit, I like warrriors because I can take them in so many ways. I am not a static list builder. I have never played the same list twice and probably never will, so I love unit which I can build and run differently; warriors and being one of my favorites.

Warriors just dont do enough and are a threat only b.c they have synapse, so they tend to die a bit quickly, even they dont do enough damage as is to me they are not worth it at all.

IF they all could gain Strangle or Venom cannons then i would take them, b.c all 3 could get in range a turn earlier and actually do damage, its 15pts more total for 3man unit to gain dbl range and str of their guns, thats pretty good to me.

It's not a ringing endorsement of a unit to say that gaunts are outperforming them.

 Tsol wrote:

shogun wrote:

Tsol wrote: Its hard to say much about them other than they are one of the most flexible units in the game and can fill any role you give them.

Thats another way of saying they're not particular good at anything. Walking slowly towards the enemy without any great damage output doesn't make a great unit. 8th edition is all about doing as much damage first and second turn and warriors suck at that.

Snake Tortoise wrote:I think warriors get such mixed reviews because they are an unusual unit that aren't easy to compare with common units from other factions. They're often compared with tactical squads but have as much in common (or more) with bloodcrushers or ogryns. They have a commissar-like fearless aura and obsec, can be somewhat expensive and elite, or (if run with dual talons) are more like horde infantry at 6.66 points per wound. No wonder they divide opinion so much

That's because a lot of casual tyranid players that are playing against other casual armies, are capable of actually making an armylist that works with different tyranid threats. At that game the warriors are a good deal but even then other tyranid units are better in a particular role. Against any semi-competitive enemy army it doesn't work because the tyranid units simply come in at manageable chucks and get blown to pieces. Warriors that walk 2/3 turns before the can actually do anything (useful) suck at that competitive game.

I will say not quite true, but I understand your reasoning. Warriors are excellent at close combat if you kit them for it. To me saying that Warriors are not good at anything is like saying a Space Marine veteran squad is not good at anything: until you gear it. They can be kitted out to be close range support, long range support anti anti and so forth. I am not exaggerating when I say they can be kittted out to handle any target. Yes, the base squad is in and of itself not great but you can tool it to do anything you want or need. In all my games Warriors have performed well, better than any other units other than my guants. But I fully admit, I like warrriors because I can take them in so many ways. I am not a static list builder. I have never played the same list twice and probably never will, so I love unit which I can build and run differently; warriors and being one of my favorites.

You're only making the case that warriors can be kitted out differently but not that they're actually good at what the do. Being very good in close combat doesn't help if you cannot reach the enemy unit before turn 3. Deathspitters with 18 inch range are also not really game changers. The got toughness 4 and a low armor save, so an carnifex compared to the same amount of points warriors is a better deal with toughness 6 and a 3+ save. I have had this discussion before on this topic and in the end I asked the pro-warrior people to provide an army list in which the 'excel' so that I could prove that other tyranid units are actually better suited for the job. Never got that armylist.

Warriors are a nice complement to all lists featuring a lot of gaunts. I tried a couple of things, but in the end the warriors are the ones better suited for the job.

shogun wrote:
Being very good in close combat doesn't help if you cannot reach the enemy unit before turn 3.

With adrenal glands and a 1-turn advance they will reliably charge into the enemys deployment zone in their second turn.

shogun wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE SCREAMER KILLERS

Who cares, walking 6 inch and dying with new cool options isn't helpful.

7 inches (plus Advance if melee) but I agree. Spore Cysts will help (-1 to be hit by ranged attacks) it to survive into turn 2. I will try hard to enjoy the new Carnifex upgrade options when dreadnoughts with Blizzard Shield tapdances on its reeking carcass.

Spoletta wrote:Warriors are a nice complement to all lists featuring a lot of gaunts. I tried a couple of things, but in the end the warriors are the ones better suited for the job.

What job? Please give me an armylist and I can show you a better way to spend points.

pismakron wrote:

shogun wrote:
Being very good in close combat doesn't help if you cannot reach the enemy unit before turn 3.

With adrenal glands and a 1-turn advance they will reliably charge into the enemys deployment zone in their second turn.

This is just wishful thinking. Only if your opponent is really stupid or simply doesn't care if you do (bubblewrap) and then you got bigger problems.

It really all depends on the book. We’ll see what happens, but if we get infiltrate like Alpha legion.....3 CP I would gladly pay to infiltrate my Carnifexes. And with Alpha legion, they move on the first turn too. It would be hard to hate on a carnifex that could be 2.1” away from an enemy on turn 1. If such a thing were to happen.

In any case, we’ll find out soon what the Hive fleets do, and as someone gets the book with access to stratagems and psychic powers, I think we’ll all be happier with the new options we have.

 Lance845 wrote:
We dont know how expensive (cheap) screamer killers will be. But it looks really promising. If we getvsome good delivery methods or whatever they could be amazing. Gotta wait to see.

The picture in the preview says power level 6, so it will probably be between 110 and 120-ish points give or take. One thing I did notice while squinting for info is that the Screamer Killer's "Bio-Plasmic Scream" is Assault D6 instead of the regular Bio Plasma's Assault D3, so it might be that the fixed template Carnifexes will get a bonus over the adaptable versions.

I just hope they rebox them with the new oval bases they have been displayed on since the Shield of Baal campaign. They look so much better than on the comparatively dinky 60mm bases.

shogun wrote:

Spoletta wrote:Warriors are a nice complement to all lists featuring a lot of gaunts. I tried a couple of things, but in the end the warriors are the ones better suited for the job.

What job? Please give me an armylist and I can show you a better way to spend points.

pismakron wrote:

shogun wrote:
Being very good in close combat doesn't help if you cannot reach the enemy unit before turn 3.

With adrenal glands and a 1-turn advance they will reliably charge into the enemys deployment zone in their second turn.

This is just wishful thinking. Only if your opponent is really stupid or simply doesn't care if you do (bubblewrap) and then you got bigger problems.

Literally anything with 90 between hormagaunts and termagants. The gants are a more pressing targets, so the warriors make contact without problems while providing synapse. And no, we are not talking about AAA lists, we are talking about mid tier gaming, Tyranids don't have good builds for top tier except for some unfun spams and heavy AM support, so why bother with top tier?

shogun wrote:

pismakron wrote:

shogun wrote:
Being very good in close combat doesn't help if you cannot reach the enemy unit before turn 3.

With adrenal glands and a 1-turn advance they will reliably charge into the enemys deployment zone in their second turn.

This is just wishful thinking. Only if your opponent is really stupid or simply doesn't care if you do (bubblewrap) and then you got bigger problems.

It is not wishful thinking at all. My footslogging boyz pretty much always connect on the second turn, and Tyranid Warriors with glands are only very marginally slower.

But it requires that you play a mission where at least some objectives can be scored every turn, and even then Hammer and Anvil or Vanguard strike deployments can be tough (ie require a good advance or charge roll)

As for Tyranid Warriors they are not exactly great, and they really ought to be S5. But you can definitely charge with them on your second turn.

If the screamer killer sheet is to be believed and used as an indicator of anything going on, we could be seeing a bit of stat line adjustments not just point adjustments in the codex.

Instead of almost exclusively midling statlines on all our troops and the bulk of our bigger bugs maybe those organism bred to do a job will actually have stats to reflect their bred-for-a-purpose capabilities.

3+ becomes 2+ when stationary exocrines? (probably not. but then I would have never hopped a carnifex would get +1 to hit either).

Exocrines are fine. They’re one of the few good things we have currently, even if maybe they’re a little expensive for what they do.

But I think you’re right that units will start to be more diverse in their stat lines and have the ability to do the job they’re intended to. And really, that’s all most of us want.

 luke1705 wrote:
Exocrines are fine. They’re one of the few good things we have currently, even if maybe they’re a little expensive for what they do.

But I think you’re right that units will start to be more diverse in their stat lines and have the ability to do the job they’re intended to. And really, that’s all most of us want.

Agree, exocrines are fine. My exocrine kitbash is my favorite model so I tend to think of exocrines first when I need an example.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Questions,

Do we want to start a new tactics thread when the codex releases or keep this one going?

Do we want to start that thread when the community articles start to show up or wait for the actual codex release?

Does anyone else want to start it/keep the first post updated (if not I will: Note: I haven't received much from any one to populate the first post with)?

Personally I think we should start a new one when the community articles show up. I don't have a preference for who maintains the first post me or anyone else as long as they are generally active and will get the relative public information on there.

I think starting fresh would be a good plan. That way anybody new can get up to speed with the current game, without wading through tons of pages. If my new meds work as advertised, I might be able to get some games in, and actually add some content.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the review of units is real useful, and if the new 'dex delivers, maybe a seperate set of Fleet tactic, and how to use them. So if Fleet Medusa gets a "super evolution" stat, what units use it best? what sort of set up, and move work best? for example...

I think starting a new thread could be quite good. We 10 of the 72 pages or probably discussing warriors.

If the stats do not change I think several of the mathammer breakdows could probably be in the first post, or 2. post.

 Niiai wrote:
What is a soup list?

It's when someone creates the apparant heresy of using the 'Imperium', 'Chaos', or 'Alderi' keywords to build their detatchments instead of the specific subfaction keywords. For example, adding gulliman in an AdMech list or Morttarian in a Thousand Sons list

Reposts from news and rumors.

Davor wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Saw this on The Tyranid Hive from poster Seeg.

http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/post/921859

not sure if this is allowed. but i guess since im just a fresh ripper either nobody will care or i'll just get removed.
so here goes nothing.

our hive tyrant is now t7, 12W. wings will have deepstrike. has a base 4++. down one attack. didnt manage to see the pointage or the wargear options. no idea if monstrous rending claws are still a thing.

carnifex are t7 as well. slight cost reduction. didnt get to see anything else.

maleceptors deal 3 mortal wounds if we roll a 6 on that weird aoe ability. it knows 2 spells and can cast and deny 2 spells. also t7. also 4++

thats all i managed to see

Read more: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/53797/new-codex-rules-preview?page=7#ixzz4wrsmEK00

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Followed by,

"i roughly remember 2 more things
1 is a stratagem tied to a fleet whose name i cant remember.
start of psychic phase, choose one enemy psyker (cant remember if there's a range or if its from one of our own psykers). Targeted enemy psyker uses only 1 dice to roll his spells
and a warlord trait: if an enemy psyker within x inches (cant remember the range) fails his cast he suffers d3 mortal wounds. i'm sure i missed something else here. my memory sucks ass."

Read more: http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/53797/new-codex-rules-preview?page=7#ixzz4ws1A8o00

That would be +2 wounds +1 toughness +1 invul save and the ability to deepstrike for hive tyrants. That makes their melee threat much better and the bonus to invul and wounds is definitely a boost to surviveability.

And then, unless the Swarmlord is getting a complete redo means he should be at least 14 wounds with a 3+ invul in melee.