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Yeah, Ork Boyz are badass compared to all our melee units, except Genestealers.

As for pointless wishlisting - I hope for Swarmlord to get a resurrect ability similar to Bobby G and Celestine. After all he's supposed to always be resurrected by the Great Devourer.

And I hope for some ability similar to Khorne Daemonkin had in Bloodtithe.

And I hope for key changes that opens up tactics, like the ability to take several units in our pods (like other factions can), viable Tyranid Primes with Wings, more useful auras and tons of other buffs.

And the eternal wish - close combat biomorph options for Raveners! Their inexplicable absence is on the verge of collapse into itself and form a black hole that will swallow 40K.

 Tsol wrote:


Lictors: I would like the lictors to have 4 attacks base. Otherwise pretty good.

I generally like your ideas, but the lictor seems about right to me. An extra attack would be cool but with flesh hooks they already get 5 S6 attacks at WS2+. If you strip a lictor back to a warrior with rending claws and flesh hooks, and then boosted their strength, gave them deepstrike, faster movement, +2 save in cover, -1 to hit and traded a point of armour save for an extra wound, would the points they cost be inappropriate? I think they're just right.

The Deathleaper is what I'd buff instead. Its special sneak attack rule is fluffy but seems impractical in reality. Probably not worth the cost of two lictors

I want lictors to have a BS buff, it’s near impossible to do anything with the fleshooks. Also it’d be nice if they dropped intstinctive bevhaviour as they’re supposed to be solitary creatures

How’s a maximised Warrior unit jumping out a Tcyte look? Shame they can’t be joined by a Prime, but we can’t all be Noise Marines. I’m thinking them, another Tcyte with Dakkagaunts, a Trygon with Raveners? I’d like to bring in my Pyrovores, too, now they’re ok. But they don’t seem as useful as the range on devourers.

 lindsay40k wrote:
How’s a maximised Warrior unit jumping out a Tcyte look? Shame they can’t be joined by a Prime, but we can’t all be Noise Marines. I’m thinking them, another Tcyte with Dakkagaunts, a Trygon with Raveners? I’d like to bring in my Pyrovores, too, now they’re ok. But they don’t seem as useful as the range on devourers.

Dunno yet but I'm looking forward to trying it out. I want a Warrior strike to be good.

Seems like you'd want tbe gaunts with the Trygon, as you can only get 20 in the Tcyte. :(

Ah yes, and I see that the Raveners can make their own way to the deep insertion point. Pyrovores it is in the second Pod

 Lance845 wrote:

 TonyH122 wrote:

Thanks for the follow up! Just one question. Being new to Nids, and reading around, I haven't seen anyone else impressed by warriors. How are you running them?

Ive seen almost nothing but glowing reviews for warriors (and by extension shrikes).

Personally I kit out warriors with scytal, deathspitters, and a biocannon. Broods of 3-6.

Shrikes I go Scytal, Boneswords, flesh hooks, and adrenal glands.

Warriors are for synapse in mid/backfield with fire support.

Shrikes are melee surgical strike units and front line synapse to support fast melee broods (Genestealers/hormagaunts). Get in and get chopping.

I mostly agree here. I could see the argument that Warriors are bad because they seem to be somewhat expenseive for such a 'fragile unit' but if your enemy is shooting your warriors either you built your army wrong or you're about to win. What I mean by this is, either your warriors are about to charge or kill soemthing and your opponet has decided to shoot them to try and hamper the coming storm or you built your list poorly. Tyrands win by overwhelming your opponet with threats. Just like Guard you should have a strong mix of units on the table. Put down 90 gaunts with two or three warrior squads and have them push the table. They will shoot your guants cause those are the more immediate threat. They won't bother shooting your wawrriors because of those three carnifexes pushing on their flank. They may not shoot your carnifexes because your 6 biovores are launching mortal wounds across the table and if they miss are spaming spore mines. And they may not shoot the biovores because of those the Terivigon and Tyranofex blobbed in with your gaunts. At least, thats how I play my Nids.
Warriors I use as support for my guants, I will either give them boneswords and talons or I will load them up with devourers, in most cases I give them fleshhooks as well (I like having pistols). They just run/follow my broods forward or sit on an objective if I build them for range support.

Its hard to say much about them other than they are one of the most flexible units in the game and can fill any role you give them.

I think warriors get such mixed reviews because they are an unusual unit that aren't easy to compare with common units from other factions. They're often compared with tactical squads but have as much in common (or more) with bloodcrushers or ogryns. They have a commissar-like fearless aura and obsec, can be somewhat expensive and elite, or (if run with dual talons) are more like horde infantry at 6.66 points per wound. No wonder they divide opinion so much

Id like our drop pod to allow a number of models instead of a single unit so it can be used to transport characters and support.

Looks like they're adding more options to the carnifexes and adding specific loadouts as separate datasheets like the Screamer Killer.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/WDPreview-Oct27-Spread2yq.jpg

Can someone read the profile on the screamer killer?

I see a T7 and the WS and BS look like different numbers, so probably WS is 3+.

 Overread wrote:
I can't help but feel that saying you can use what you want is a kind of cop-out when you consider base to base and such is a key mechanic

Kind of thing that maybe has to be raised higher than the phone trollz?

It's because GW used various base sizes and shapes for the same critters over the eyars and they are all legal.

My original Biovores came on square bases.
I rebased them to 40mm rounds when those became a thing.

How many Space Marine players would riot if you had to rebase hundreds of Space Marines from 25mm to 32mm ?

It's not practical to expect people to rebase, and there are pros and cons to various base sizes. The general rule is to use what looks best.

 Zimko wrote:
Looks like they're adding more options to the carnifexes and adding specific loadouts as separate datasheets like the Screamer Killer.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/WDPreview-Oct27-Spread2yq.jpg

Oh boy, this could prove a slight nightmare. All of the different carnifex components gets a rule assosiated with it again. While that is AWSOME for somebody who is assembling a new Carnifex, I find it particuraly bad for me personally. I have 4 carnifex torsoes that I am salvaging from my 5th edition army, almost painted up. I have used a lot of heads in conversions of other models back when we did not have Trygons and Tyranofexes.

I am hopefull for the new codex but I hope I don't need to much conversion. :-)

On the picture it still says 6 powerpoints, and the wound and armour seems the same. I was hoping for a small point reduction.

 Zimko wrote:
Looks like they're adding more options to the carnifexes and adding specific loadouts as separate datasheets like the Screamer Killer.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/WDPreview-Oct27-Spread2yq.jpg

Sounds amazing. Can anyone get a read on that stat line?

The resolution is not bigger until somebody gets another source.

 Niiai wrote:

 Zimko wrote:
Looks like they're adding more options to the carnifexes and adding specific loadouts as separate datasheets like the Screamer Killer.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/WDPreview-Oct27-Spread2yq.jpg

Oh boy, this could prove a slight nightmare. All of the different carnifex components gets a rule assosiated with it again. While that is AWSOME for somebody who is assembling a new Carnifex, I find it particuraly bad for me personally. I have 4 carnifex torsoes that I am salvaging from my 5th edition army, almost painted up. I have used a lot of heads in conversions of other models back when we did not have Trygons and Tyranofexes.

I am hopefull for the new codex but I hope I don't need to much conversion. :-)

On the picture it still says 6 powerpoints, and the wound and armour seems the same. I was hoping for a small point reduction.

Hah! I got 3 of these babies fully magnetized

Oh man, the carnifex kit is my favoret kit ever I think. Just look at that sweetness. :-)

Does this mean we can expect something similar for all those options in the Genestealer kit?

God I hope not. Or rather I hope we do, and then I magicaly hope my tyranids are asembeled legal and in a way I get rules I am satesfied with.

Tsol wrote: Its hard to say much about them other than they are one of the most flexible units in the game and can fill any role you give them.

Thats another way of saying they're not particular good at anything. Walking slowly towards the enemy without any great damage output doesn't make a great unit. 8th edition is all about doing as much damage first and second turn and warriors suck at that.

Snake Tortoise wrote:I think warriors get such mixed reviews because they are an unusual unit that aren't easy to compare with common units from other factions. They're often compared with tactical squads but have as much in common (or more) with bloodcrushers or ogryns. They have a commissar-like fearless aura and obsec, can be somewhat expensive and elite, or (if run with dual talons) are more like horde infantry at 6.66 points per wound. No wonder they divide opinion so much

That's because a lot of casual tyranid players that are playing against other casual armies, are capable of actually making an armylist that works with different tyranid threats. At that game the warriors are a good deal but even then other tyranid units are better in a particular role. Against any semi-competitive enemy army it doesn't work because the tyranid units simply come in at manageable chucks and get blown to pieces. Warriors that walk 2/3 turns before the can actually do anything (useful) suck at that competitive game.

shogun wrote:

Tsol wrote: Its hard to say much about them other than they are one of the most flexible units in the game and can fill any role you give them.

Thats another way of saying they're not particular good at anything. Walking slowly towards the enemy without any great damage output doesn't make a great unit. 8th edition is all about doing as much damage first and second turn and warriors suck at that.

Snake Tortoise wrote:I think warriors get such mixed reviews because they are an unusual unit that aren't easy to compare with common units from other factions. They're often compared with tactical squads but have as much in common (or more) with bloodcrushers or ogryns. They have a commissar-like fearless aura and obsec, can be somewhat expensive and elite, or (if run with dual talons) are more like horde infantry at 6.66 points per wound. No wonder they divide opinion so much

That's because a lot of casual tyranid players that are playing against other casual armies, are capable of actually making an armylist that works with different tyranid threats. At that game the warriors are a good deal but even then other tyranid units are better in a particular role. Against any semi-competitive enemy army it doesn't work because the tyranid units simply come in at manageable chucks and get blown to pieces. Warriors that walk 2/3 turns before the can actually do anything (useful) suck at that competitive game.

Luckily this is getting slowly less and less true. With every codex the game is becoming more centered on attrition and less on alpha strikes. It was just the first codex which introduced Robby and made the "shoot everything away turn 1" the standard. With conscripts nerf, scions nerf and hopefully an RG nerf in the Chapter approved, the game will become more stable. All those -1 to hit going around are also a great help.

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
I think warriors get such mixed reviews because they are an unusual unit that aren't easy to compare with common units from other factions. They're often compared with tactical squads but have as much in common (or more) with bloodcrushers or ogryns. They have a commissar-like fearless aura and obsec, can be somewhat expensive and elite, or (if run with dual talons) are more like horde infantry at 6.66 points per wound. No wonder they divide opinion so much

I think Tyranid Warriors are comparable to Ork Nobz. They are somewhat more durable, have more dakka, but a bit less choppa. And they are like 3 times more expensive money-wise. Tyranid Warriors really ought to have S 5, though.

 Zimko wrote:
Looks like they're adding more options to the carnifexes and adding specific loadouts as separate datasheets like the Screamer Killer.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/WDPreview-Oct27-Spread2yq.jpg

Yowza! That makes me happy. I have always loved me some Screamer Killas

I'm probably seeing things, but if you suppose that the W value of the screamer killer is 8 and the Ld is 6, it seems to me that the S value is more similar to a 8 than to a 6.

Spoletta wrote:
I'm probably seeing things, but if you suppose that the W value of the screamer killer is 8 and the Ld is 6, it seems to me that the S value is more similar to a 8 than to a 6.

Because of the low resolution and the fact that the picture is tilted a bit it could just be the pixels not lighning up properly. A S8 carnifex would do much better vs all these horid T7 things they keep running into. Make them better or make the cheaper. Let my carnifexes go. And I will part red of of my enemies blood.

Spoletta wrote:
Luckily this is getting slowly less and less true. With every codex the game is becoming more centered on attrition and less on alpha strikes. It was just the first codex which introduced Robby and made the "shoot everything away turn 1" the standard. With conscripts nerf, scions nerf and hopefully an RG nerf in the Chapter approved, the game will become more stable. All those -1 to hit going around are also a great help.

Uh, I think you're pretty wrong here. AM has pretty firmly centered the game around large, cheap screening tarpits with overwhelming alpha strike capability (Deep striking/outflanking/long range firepower) and/or smite spam. Basically every one of the top lists at SoCal open operated off this style of play except the Deathstar style bash-bros with gunzerker knight.

Smite spam armies are the closest thing to "attrition" armies, and they generally revolve around using tarpits to protect and secure targets for smite.

The only outlier is Ynnari aeldar, who abuse the soulburst ability to make out-of-sequence actions that allow them to get multiple shots/charges out of each unit. Generally done through alpha striking.

The basic rules of 40k mean we aren't likely to ever deviate too far from this style of play, there's far too much benefit from alpha striking. Whether it's from null deployment style play, to min drop gunline heavy, the whole point is to do maximum damage before your opponent can do any back. Which is why 120 conscripts surrounding 9 primaris psykers works. You can't possibly do enough damage to the list without it being able to hit you at full capacity. The list isn't designed to grind you into paste slowly, it's just useless crap keeping the smite spam alive so they can obliterate anything that they can get to, supported by deep striking heavy hitters and super efficient high output tanks. It basically makes it impossible for them to be alpha struck effectively, but guarantees they will do it to you.

Bring back 5th edition mawlocks. Now lets see how clumbed together they like to stand. :-)

That's what i'm saying. Those lists depend heavily on the screening units. Now that best one has been solidly nerfed (in particular for soups), those lists have lost some efficacy.

 Tsol wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 TonyH122 wrote:

Thanks for the follow up! Just one question. Being new to Nids, and reading around, I haven't seen anyone else impressed by warriors. How are you running them?

Ive seen almost nothing but glowing reviews for warriors (and by extension shrikes).

Personally I kit out warriors with scytal, deathspitters, and a biocannon. Broods of 3-6.

Shrikes I go Scytal, Boneswords, flesh hooks, and adrenal glands.

Warriors are for synapse in mid/backfield with fire support.

Shrikes are melee surgical strike units and front line synapse to support fast melee broods (Genestealers/hormagaunts). Get in and get chopping.

I mostly agree here. I could see the argument that Warriors are bad because they seem to be somewhat expenseive for such a 'fragile unit' but if your enemy is shooting your warriors either you built your army wrong or you're about to win. What I mean by this is, either your warriors are about to charge or kill soemthing and your opponet has decided to shoot them to try and hamper the coming storm or you built your list poorly. Tyrands win by overwhelming your opponet with threats. Just like Guard you should have a strong mix of units on the table. Put down 90 gaunts with two or three warrior squads and have them push the table. They will shoot your guants cause those are the more immediate threat. They won't bother shooting your wawrriors because of those three carnifexes pushing on their flank. They may not shoot your carnifexes because your 6 biovores are launching mortal wounds across the table and if they miss are spaming spore mines. And they may not shoot the biovores because of those the Terivigon and Tyranofex blobbed in with your gaunts. At least, thats how I play my Nids.
Warriors I use as support for my guants, I will either give them boneswords and talons or I will load them up with devourers, in most cases I give them fleshhooks as well (I like having pistols). They just run/follow my broods forward or sit on an objective if I build them for range support.

Its hard to say much about them other than they are one of the most flexible units in the game and can fill any role you give them.

Whatever they decide to target out of that list will die too easily for its points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoletta wrote:
That's what i'm saying. Those lists depend heavily on the screening units. Now that best one has been solidly nerfed (in particular for soups), those lists have lost some efficacy.

Not really nerfed at the competitive level. Valhallans can still screen soup lists.

What is a soup list?