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Can Dark Angels use the Space Marine Stratagems until such a time as their book comes out?

I will be running my Ravenwing out of the index for all rules/points until we get a new dex. I son;t see GW throwing us any bones until then. Using weapons and units from C:SM that would normally be pulled from Index may be allowed, but specialty units like RW will probably have to wait, and who knows how long that will be.

So, thoughts on the new Primaris stuff such as the Repulsor? I plan to get a Repulsor and either use it as a bus for my Hellblasters, or possibly take ALL THE LASCANNONS and park it next to Azrael for the sweet rerolls and good save. I'm a little disappointed that it only has a 3+ save, but otherwise it would literally be a flying Land Raider and would cost even more points than it already does.

I haven't done any math to see how effective it really is but I'm kinda in love with the number of dice it can crap out.

I think it would be amusing to pack 3 Aggressors, the captain, and a lieutenant into the thing. Deploy them and then hover within the auras pew pew.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
So, thoughts on the new Primaris stuff such as the Repulsor? I plan to get a Repulsor and either use it as a bus for my Hellblasters, or possibly take ALL THE LASCANNONS and park it next to Azrael for the sweet rerolls and good save. I'm a little disappointed that it only has a 3+ save, but otherwise it would literally be a flying Land Raider and would cost even more points than it already does.

The tank if priced right could possibly replace my pred annihilator. For the most part I like my intercessors out in the open and ran cheaply as screen. But to have it there to possibly move primaris around could be useful and it looks to have about the same amount of fire power as a pred annhilator -- with the fly rule also making it better. In my list right now I'm running two units of five primaris intercessors and a primaris lieutenant and they are really quite good. the lieutenant obviously is there for the rerolls of 1's to wound. I use the intercessors mostly as a screen/bubble wrap. They sit in front of my two ven dreads, pred annihilator etc and pump out some decent shots at a decent mid-range but are mostly used to hold the line (the anvil) so my shooting and actual combat stuff can do work. That strategy probably won't change alot even with the new tank -- this is largely going to depend on point management. I could easily still use a pred annihilator and be fine. Pred Annihilators also dropped in points too I believe which may make it the winner still by default.

The new dread also doesn't seem to be all that exceptional. I'm pretty biased towards the venerables at the moment only because they have been exceptionally good every game. Hitting on two's, the venerable ability to ignore wounds, and the fact they don't depreciate are abilities worth their weight. In the last two games, they (aided by Azrael of course) were the main factor of my wins destroying my opponents key units ie: typhus, plaguecaster, lord of contagion, demon prince, hellbrute, chaos lord, chaos bikes. Never run them without lascannon/fists/flamer. They are the counter punch the army needs. I find alot of the lists I'm seeing being built focus too hard on shooting as if their enemy will never make it into combat with them and somehow Azrael is going to be enough on his own. That's a pretty high ideal that will almost never be achieved against a solid list. You need to be prepared for the fight to make it eventually and that you hopefully will have weakened their force by that time enough to pull the win. I'm convinced that ven dreads are the key to that strategy.

I've ran 2 nephilims and 1 dark talon the last couple games for my anti-armor and plus some anti-infantry with a couple weapons they have. They've been ridiculously good. Flyers are very powerful in this edition and it shows. They cost almost the same price as 3 venerable dreads, which i also like a lot, however they have one thing that I like vastly more than the dreads and that's extreme mobility.

Now that might mean less depending on your list but I play Deathwing so I sorely needed the mobility boost that they bring.

Actually a flyer wing and deathwing army sounds pretty fricking cool. I've seen alot of people saying do greenwing (ie azzy with dread parking lot) and deathwing army but I feel that leaves your back shooty force pretty thin and exposed. It feels like it would play against what you want to do. But the flyer wing/deathwing would be exactly what you'd want. Cool idea. I definitely think the key to a good alpha strike DA list is a combo of dw and rw. I posted up a list that I think might work decently in the army list section.

What are your thoughts on our flyers and their loadouts?

I bought a kit recently and magnetized everything of course, but I was wandering what loadout I should play in my first match.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
So, thoughts on the new Primaris stuff such as the Repulsor? I plan to get a Repulsor and either use it as a bus for my Hellblasters, or possibly take ALL THE LASCANNONS and park it next to Azrael for the sweet rerolls and good save. I'm a little disappointed that it only has a 3+ save, but otherwise it would literally be a flying Land Raider and would cost even more points than it already does.

Are you sure we can even use them?

Aeri wrote:
What are your thoughts on our flyers and their loadouts?

I bought a kit recently and magnetized everything of course, but I was wandering what loadout I should play in my first match.

The Dark Talon looks amazing. Probably the best overall flyer we have access to. If I get some nephalim I will like go lascannon over avenger bolter because the talon has decent anti horde.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cadian16th wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
So, thoughts on the new Primaris stuff such as the Repulsor? I plan to get a Repulsor and either use it as a bus for my Hellblasters, or possibly take ALL THE LASCANNONS and park it next to Azrael for the sweet rerolls and good save. I'm a little disappointed that it only has a 3+ save, but otherwise it would literally be a flying Land Raider and would cost even more points than it already does.

Are you sure we can even use them?

\

Yeah GW site put the points and stuff out to the public on their site and it states DA/BA/SW can all use them etc.

I've been using the Dark Talon in every game I've played and it's a work horse. It does a lot of damage and draws a whole lot of dakka before it dies, if it dies.

I've also found las preds and devs sitting next to azrael, dark shroud, and primaris lt are incredibly hard to deal with. In the last three games I've played I've only lost 1 dev squad out of 2 and if they do damage a pred i usually have a techmarine there to heal it back up.

I haven't had to go against a true horde army yet though.

 ILegion wrote:
I've been using the Dark Talon in every game I've played and it's a work horse. It does a lot of damage and draws a whole lot of dakka before it dies, if it dies.

I've also found las preds and devs sitting next to azrael, dark shroud, and primaris lt are incredibly hard to deal with. In the last three games I've played I've only lost 1 dev squad out of 2 and if they do damage a pred i usually have a techmarine there to heal it back up.

I haven't had to go against a true horde army yet though.

For the lolz, stick an Ancient near the devs to maybe get extra shots when they go down!

Edit: And an Apothecary to stand them back up again!

Aeri wrote:
What are your thoughts on our flyers and their loadouts?

I bought a kit recently and magnetized everything of course, but I was wandering what loadout I should play in my first match.

Of course it depends on what the rest of your army composition is and what it is in need of. Considering I play Deathwing, I already have plenty of dakka from the terminators, so my Nephilims and kitted out for Anti-armor, so twin las, the black swaord missiles and twin heavy bolter. Sadly the twin heavy bolters can't be changed out, but its not that bad an issue, since facing doesn't matter you just drop the heavy bolter shots on infantry. If i was running Devs with missiles, or lascannons, and tri-las preds, then I'd definitely condsider going with the mega bolter for anti-infantry.

The dark talon of course only has 1 load out, but hurricane bolters on a super mobile platform is super good, and the rift cannon can do some good damage to vehicles and high T, high wound models, and the stasis bomb is always hilarious, just make sure you always drop it on a squad with 10+ models to get maximum effect. The dark talon fits nicely with the nephilim, since they both can be dual role and as a bonus it can go into hove mode after you've cleaned up some of the opponents anti-air.

What units/combinations of units would you guys recommend for a list that can handle hordes well but still do okay against other army types? I was looking around the internet for competitive lists and all I could find really were the ETC lists, which involved spamming Dark Talons, Razorbacks, Dreads, and/or Devastators in some combination, along with Azrael for the rerolls. I'm not sure the ETC lists are a good indicator of what's good in Dark Angels, though.

One guy in my local meta runs huge blobs of Ork Boyz, and I have a hard time dealing with 150+ models all coming at me at once. I only own 2 AC Razorbacks and no Heavy Bolter Devs. I do have a Nephilim that could take the megabolter for some horde-clearing, but I should probably build my other two DA flyer kits as Dark Talons, which do the job better.

Main reason I post this is that I've got a tournament next weekend and I'd like to finish better than dead last. What kind of stuff should I be taking to make a good TAC list, that can handle hordes as well as a heavily meched-up list (like 4 IK or something). My meta is really brutal, with several very good players who go to the big tournaments and do okay there (one of them was ranked like 4th in the world in some rank system or other).

Zergsmasher,

I came 2nd with my Dark Angels in a 32 player local tournament a few week ago. My second and third games were against Orks and both were tough victories. I took a core of two full Tac Sqds and a Scout Sniper Squad, a Deathwing Squad, a Deathwing Knights Squad, a Deathwing Champion, a Ravenwing Black Knights Squads, a Devastator Squad, a Librarian on a Bike, Belial and Azrael with a Nephalim in support.

My Devastators struggled, but to be fair they were high priority targets for my opponents and they targeted them (multiple Bombs from Bombas were particularly nasty in that regards). My Ravenwing Black Knights were also not very effective - they are meant to kill high-points targets and not a horde of Orks! A standard Ravenwing Bike squad would have been better.

The Tactical Squads were very solid against Orks - Frag missiles, rapid-firing Bolters and Flamers all thinned out the hordes. The Nephalim was great, but watch out for Stormboyz and that Stormboy character!

The stars against the Ork horders were the Deathwing. The normal Terminators with Storm Bolters were great, especially with Belial giving re-rolls. I thought that the Deathwing Knights would be terrible against Orks, but in the end they shone in both competitive games. The Deathwing worked as an integrated team with Belial at the centre. The Terminators would thin the horde with fire and the Deathwing Knights would clean up. They were supported by Tactical Squad rapid fire and Nephalim strafing. The Snipers killed a Weirdboy and a Painboy which was kinda fun.

Cheers

^I suddenly feel smart for converting some scout snipers

I'm looking to add one unit of the new stuff to my guys (in addition to DI) who are largely Deathwing(for now). It feels like aggressors are great at what they do, and may make a cool little force rushing up to pinch attack with teleporting DWT...but they're basically just more bolter shots. Our assault elements are generally tough and probably don't need reivers to soften up their targets or cancel overwatch. Which largely leaves me with the Redemptor and Repulsor in search of high AP murder weapons.

I like the dread and it's a bit easier to cram it into a list than the tank, but I'm not sure if the macro plasma cannon can keep up with four lascannon shots. I mean on average it's a similar number of shots from the high AP guns but the macroplas only does 2 damage when overcharging vs d6 from the lascannon/talon. Points wise the dread can tag a backup (nearly enough points for another dread probably, especially if we're talking standard/venerable dread) but then I wonder if I shouldn't just keep a duo of lascannon vendreads.

The grav tank can field weaponry to nearly match both a classic (godhammer?) *and* crusader land raider, and that first part is what I tend to lack. But it's reeeaaly expensive and can only transport Primaris which means either my knights are burning CP trying to deepstrike charge or I'm taking two 350-400 point transports. Hell I dunno maybe that's viable...would be a bunch of fatty tank wounds. Maybe get em a darkshroud and make a theme of it...

Hmm. I want the new shinies but I'm kinda wondering if the new hotness is really gonna outperform the classic options. Especially considering we don't know what, if anything, we'll be getting to compete with the new codex marines chapter tactics.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

The stars against the Ork horders were the Deathwing. The normal Terminators with Storm Bolters were great, especially with Belial giving re-rolls.

Do you think Belial is worth the points VS Terminator Captain? Same stats, same buffs a couple of extras on Belial but capt is cheaper.

Did you run Belial with sword of silence + SB or another config?

 MangoMadness wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

The stars against the Ork horders were the Deathwing. The normal Terminators with Storm Bolters were great, especially with Belial giving re-rolls.

Do you think Belial is worth the points VS Terminator Captain? Same stats, same buffs a couple of extras on Belial but capt is cheaper.

Did you run Belial with sword of silence + SB or another config?

IMO Belial is probably a must-take with Deathwing. His extra goodies are more than worth the extra points.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

IMO Belial is probably a must-take with Deathwing. His extra goodies are more than worth the extra points.

You are right, I thought they both had Rites of Battle only, Belial had MoTDW allowing all rerolls not just 1's.

Definately worth the extra points

Belial has been a rock star deploying with two Deathwing units and either an Ancient or a Champion. Reroll misses for both squads in shooting and assault - really buffs the DW. His Sword of Silence has been great, but perhaps I will eventually regret having a 4++ save instead of a 3++ with a SS. He is less potent against vehicles, but that's what the other two squads can do!

Cheers

 MangoMadness wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

The stars against the Ork horders were the Deathwing. The normal Terminators with Storm Bolters were great, especially with Belial giving re-rolls.

Do you think Belial is worth the points VS Terminator Captain? Same stats, same buffs a couple of extras on Belial but capt is cheaper.

Did you run Belial with sword of silence + SB or another config?

Currently there is no competition. Belial is hands down better in every way than a basic Captain in term armor. Having said that, once we get our codex, it will largely depend on what and how good our chapter relics are. For 1 CP you can get 2 relics which, if you've seen the SM, chaos, and GK relics, well, there are some really good ones and Belial could easily have competition for his spot. I'm actually hoping for this, not that I don't love running Belial, but being able to mix and match relics to make a handful of different Deathwing HQs is going to be very cool. I know I shouldn't get my hopes up as GW has dashed them every time we've gotten a new dex but i'll try to stay somewhat reserved....

As someone running a successor chapter, having access to a generic who was even somewhat on par with Belial or Azreal would be nice. Keeps me from having to be weird about the named dudes. Oh you're going to make a fuss? Ok forget it, I'm playing dark angels, they're just wearing blue today =\

 GrimDork wrote:
As someone running a successor chapter, having access to a generic who was even somewhat on par with Belial or Azreal would be nice. Keeps me from having to be weird about the named dudes. Oh you're going to make a fuss? Ok forget it, I'm playing dark angels, they're just wearing blue today =\

People who give you grief need to get a life. There were plenty of blue/red/black/whatever White Scars Battle Companies in 7th edition, all with Kor'sarro Khan in them. To say nothing about all the multicolored Ultramarine Skyhammer Annihilation Forces out there. If someone has a problem with you playing a well-painted Successor army with a counts-as Azrael or Belial in there (so that you could use those profiles), don't play them. Personally I like to see some different color schemes for armies instead of the same old thing, although my own Dark Angels are the traditional dark green/black/bone white as they are not a successor chapter.

Yeah I don't foresee issues. I'm more excited at the prospect of bashing out custom characters to fit the gear. It's not like i play much anyway

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Belial has been a rock star deploying with two Deathwing units and either an Ancient or a Champion. Reroll misses for both squads in shooting and assault - really buffs the DW. His Sword of Silence has been great, but perhaps I will eventually regret having a 4++ save instead of a 3++ with a SS. He is less potent against vehicles, but that's what the other two squads can do!

Cheers

Cool

How do you run your DW squads? I ran a very successful belial/terminator/dread army back in 4th/5th a decade ago running 1 pair of LC in each squad and some mixed armament. With the new CC rules the LC seem to have lost their I advantage but an extra attack and rr would be good for anti infantry.

I am thinking that this edition each squad should have a TH/SS for a 3+ invul for when they get shot with high AP lascannons and the like you put those hits on the SS for more survivability. Do you run any TLC in the squads or do you let the knights do most of the CC work?

 MangoMadness wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Belial has been a rock star deploying with two Deathwing units and either an Ancient or a Champion. Reroll misses for both squads in shooting and assault - really buffs the DW. His Sword of Silence has been great, but perhaps I will eventually regret having a 4++ save instead of a 3++ with a SS. He is less potent against vehicles, but that's what the other two squads can do!

Cheers

Cool

How do you run your DW squads? I ran a very successful belial/terminator/dread army back in 4th/5th a decade ago running 1 pair of LC in each squad and some mixed armament. With the new CC rules the LC seem to have lost their I advantage but an extra attack and rr would be good for anti infantry.

I am thinking that this edition each squad should have a TH/SS for a 3+ invul for when they get shot with high AP lascannons and the like you put those hits on the SS for more survivability. Do you run any TLC in the squads or do you let the knights do most of the CC work?

I was running one Deathwing Squad with Assault Cannon and four Storm Bolters along with a squad of Deathwing Knights. I am now trying out two Deathwing Squads each with a single TH/SS for the reason you gave as the Sgt and then an Assault Cannon plus Storm Bolters. I have not tried out the Lightning Claws this edition but I have a squad ready. One weapon I might try again in the Cyclone launcher. I am finding the Assault Cannon a little "meh" and will try out the more heavy hitting missile launcher soon.

I am back on forth regarding the Deathwing Knights. They look cool and have had some incredible games for me, but other times they run around in circles doing nothing. I think they need a transport to be more reliable.

Cheers

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

 MangoMadness wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Belial has been a rock star deploying with two Deathwing units and either an Ancient or a Champion. Reroll misses for both squads in shooting and assault - really buffs the DW. His Sword of Silence has been great, but perhaps I will eventually regret having a 4++ save instead of a 3++ with a SS. He is less potent against vehicles, but that's what the other two squads can do!

Cheers

Cool

How do you run your DW squads? I ran a very successful belial/terminator/dread army back in 4th/5th a decade ago running 1 pair of LC in each squad and some mixed armament. With the new CC rules the LC seem to have lost their I advantage but an extra attack and rr would be good for anti infantry.

I am thinking that this edition each squad should have a TH/SS for a 3+ invul for when they get shot with high AP lascannons and the like you put those hits on the SS for more survivability. Do you run any TLC in the squads or do you let the knights do most of the CC work?

I was running one Deathwing Squad with Assault Cannon and four Storm Bolters along with a squad of Deathwing Knights. I am now trying out two Deathwing Squads each with a single TH/SS for the reason you gave as the Sgt and then an Assault Cannon plus Storm Bolters. I have not tried out the Lightning Claws this edition but I have a squad ready. One weapon I might try again in the Cyclone launcher. I am finding the Assault Cannon a little "meh" and will try out the more heavy hitting missile launcher soon.

I am back on forth regarding the Deathwing Knights. They look cool and have had some incredible games for me, but other times they run around in circles doing nothing. I think they need a transport to be more reliable.

Cheers

Yeah, tbh, terminators, even TH/SS/knights aren't the greatest in CC. they have low number of attacks, are very slow, they hit on 4+ with TH. The Knights are clearly much better but I'm in the same boat as you, I find without a LR, they DS in and do very little most of the time. Mine have gotten badly mauled by Berzerks, wiped out by Abbadon. I nevery situation i've actually just wished I had another shooty squad that I could deploy at 12"-24" and whittle things down before I go into CC. This is another reason why TLCs are basically pointless. If you want to/are going to run CC terms, you run Knights.

As for the TH/SS on the serg, thats possibly another story, I think that might be a good investment because he can soak high AP shots, and if he does get into CC, he has 3 TH attacks. I haven't got a chance to run them yet, as i just got 3 of them painted up, but that's next on the agenda.

A lot could happen when we get our dex. Look at storm of fire warlord trait in the S< book. That would be so good on a DW warlord that could drop in with a couple squads of terms and lay waste to everything. I was super jealous of that trait..... that would be a great tactic with Marneus Calgar dropping in with terminators.

Anyone experiment with the Techmarine on Bike? For only 12 more points you get +8" movement, +1 toughness, +1 Wounds, plus the bike weapons. This seems insanely good in an Azrael parking lot list.

I kinda wondered about a techmarine. So we get servitors too? Plasma servitors may be nice in an azbubble..

I recently had a game at my FLGS at 1500 Points.

Sammael, some Black knights, An apothecary on Bike and a drakshroud. 2 Assault cannon Razorbacks with Tac squads in the backfield and 1 unit of deathwing knights.

Enemy were Khorne Deamons and they stole the initiative - luckily This allowed me to charge their flying deamon prince of doom after unloading my plasma talons on it.
Sammael then made short work of it with his 5 S8 melee attacks.
Huge suprise for both me and my enemy :-P

the deathwing knights performed as usual - they did good.
Once my enemy realized what they can do, he cleared the field and all they did was controlling pretty much 1/4 of the table because he didnt dare to come closer.

Bikes and Razorbacks then proceeded to clear the table.