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I've had great success with DC loaded with chainsword and Boltgun. Can't see why anyone would choose boltpistol seeing that they are only viable in your next shooting phase as an extra punch in CC.

Rapid firing boltgun are nothing to scoff at following with a massive charge (good rolling could result in unfavorable charge distance).

With jump packs you can also leave close combat for a tactical objective and still rapid fire the heck out of the unit who should be severely weakened after previous bouts of close combat.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
I've found that Company Veterans squad is also quite effective. Variable squad size from 2 up to 5 models and they get access to a LOT of wargear.

Agreed, they are really nice. I like them with a couple of Storm shields to protect a character with an invulnerable save. If someone attacks the squad, the Storm Shields will help to protect them. If someone attacks the character, they are protected by their invulnerable save, if they fail that, they can pass the wound off to a cheap mook who just has BP/CS.

Nice with Mephiston as well as long as they can keep up with him.

I am still not sure how mixed armor saves and units work. If you have 2 guys with stormshields can you only save 2 dice rolls with a 3+ and the rest must take normal saves? Or something diffrent?

broxus wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
I've found that Company Veterans squad is also quite effective. Variable squad size from 2 up to 5 models and they get access to a LOT of wargear.

Agreed, they are really nice. I like them with a couple of Storm shields to protect a character with an invulnerable save. If someone attacks the squad, the Storm Shields will help to protect them. If someone attacks the character, they are protected by their invulnerable save, if they fail that, they can pass the wound off to a cheap mook who just has BP/CS.

Nice with Mephiston as well as long as they can keep up with him.

I am still not sure how mixed armor saves and units work. If you have 2 guys with stormshields can you only save 2 dice rolls with a 3+ and the rest must take normal saves? Or something diffrent?

It works just like 7th with the exception that you pick instead of just taking it on the closest. So if you get hit by 50 meltaguns, the stormshields can tank them until they die, then the other guys have to save whatever is left, until your run out of wounds or dudes.

[cleaning this up! man that post was a mess with so many "added to last post" additions ]

Managed to nab a look at someone else's book to do some calculations. If I'm doing this right, this is what I currently have (or will have, once the trade goes through):

Goal: 1250 Pts
HQ: ??? Pts, PL8
Captain in Terminator Armor
-- Model has a thunder hammer, and unfortunately part of the cape is tied to it, so I'm probably gonna stick with the TH for ease of construction. But other than that IDK, I'll have to see what I can do model-wise.

Elites: 776 Pts, PL 45
Terminator Ancient
-- LC
Terminator Squad
-- 2xPF, 2xCF, PSword, AssCan
Terminator Assault Squad
-- 3xTH+SS, 2x2LC
Terminator Assault Squad
-- 3xTH+SS, 2x2LC

Troops: 256 Pts, PL18
Scout Squad
-- 5xSR, Camo
Scout Squad
-- 4xSR, ML, Camo
Scout Squad
-- 4xBoltguns, BP+CCW sarge

I'm still figuring out how to fill the rest of the 1250 points goal. General goal though is captain stays with the tactical termies taking an objective while providing fire support for the assault termies, while ancient goes with the assault termies to wreck gak. Scouts hang back and snipe things while bolter scouts hide on an objective on my end of the board taking potshots.

The BA Terminator Ancient is freaking brutal support for assault termies. Re-roll all failed fight rolls! Damn.

Melissa, my recommendation for your other HQ choices would be a Sanguinary High Priest with a jump pack to hop around and share the +1 Strength buff to as many models as he can reasonably reach, and to also get within 3" of a squad to try and restore wounds or models to your terminator squads. I would also consider a Librarian or a Librarian Dreadnought for you other one.

I prefer the Librarian Dread as they are tough, characters, and their two Blood Angels specific buffing powers are both very good and useful. You can give your Librarian Dread a 4+ invulnerable save and you can buff another nearby unit with a bonus attack.

The only other thing you need, it seems, is some added ranged anti tank. A storm raven might be fun for this, or you could go with a predator or the like.

Best of luck, and take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Yeah been thinking of the sanguinary priest. Predators will come for higher points levels definitely-- I rather like the models.

At the moment, what I have listed up there is literally every BA model I have. I might be able to grab some scouts or a single character, but my funds are limited. Got these in a trade.

That would be a tough list for sure. Little lacking in ranged attack, but makes up for it being dangerous as hell in melee. I would try to get a Sanguinary High Priest in the immediate, ebay or what have you is your friend. The single blister mini is around 20 or 25 dollars if my memory serves. Though Psyker defense might be the better option first, and getting the single blister Librarian in Power Armor, or the Blood Angels Librarian in Terminator Armor (my recommendation) won't set you back too far cost wise.

Best of luck and I hope your angels perform well once you get them on the tabletop!

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

The theme of the list is termies and scouts-- naming it "1st and 10th"-- with the idea being that the scouts run in to a force they can't handle and call for reinforcements, so the 1st teleport down using the scouts' beacons. Also the contrast between scouts and termies is pretty strong, making it visually interesting.

So to fit that theme, I definitely would pick terminator armor for characters if given the choice.

That said, Baal predators are reaaaaaally tempting... they look awesome, and 12 S6 AP-1 shots is pretty brutal against pretty much any target.

Yea, Baal Predators are pretty excellent, and I am actually tempted to put the sponson heavy flamers on them now, where before I would ALWAYS eschew them for Heavy Bolters. Now Heavy Bolters are a solid choice, but if you get close you can put a massive hurt on an enemy unit with the paired Heavy Flamers and twin Assault Cannon.

I'm considering picking one up in the near future. We shall see.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I hope the new Primaris Reivers are worth taking when they come out. If they don't suck, a unit of them could very well make a good addition to the scout portion of my 1st and 10th list.

The other Primaris units are very much overcosted for what they do though... Inceptors looked like a potential addition to my list, but at over 200 points on an assault unit that doesn't have any close combat equipment or abilities after the charge, I'm not convinced that they'd be worth it even with the blood angels terminator ancient buff.

Baal Predators are decent, compared to a Razorback or Predator its got competition.

Baal Predators cost 107 base

Razorback costs 65 base (plus 35 with AC added) at 100.

What do you get for spending 42 more points? ONE wound and the AC. Overcharged Engines.

Another choice and more versatile weapon platform with the same amount of wounds is the Predator, you save 5 points base too.

The regular predator can't carry twin assault cannons, however, and the razorback, while cheaper, is slower-- which is important for use of the twin assault cannons and their short range and allows for greater flexibility.

I mean, I don't disagree; the overcharged engines and wound are a bit overpriced if you compare it exclusively to the razorback... but the result is still better than the alternatives IMO. The regular predator is actually more expensive than the Baal one anyway by six points once you add in gear (and IMO the predator autocannon is inferior to the twin assault cannons for most situations), so you're paying to give up a lot of shots and mobility for additional strength in the cannon.

Razorbacks are more likely to be in positions where they get assaulted as well. Objectives are a thing.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Melissa, my recommendation for your other HQ choices would be a Sanguinary High Priest with a jump pack to hop around and share the +1 Strength buff to as many models as he can reasonably reach, and to also get within 3" of a squad to try and restore wounds or models to your terminator squads. I would also consider a Librarian or a Librarian Dreadnought for you other one.

I prefer the Librarian Dread as they are tough, characters, and their two Blood Angels specific buffing powers are both very good and useful. You can give your Librarian Dread a 4+ invulnerable save and you can buff another nearby unit with a bonus attack.

The only other thing you need, it seems, is some added ranged anti tank. A storm raven might be fun for this, or you could go with a predator or the like.

Best of luck, and take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Since that librarian dreadnaught is a "Character" with less than 10 wounds it can't be targeted in the shooting phase. Give that 4+ invul save to a unit in front of it.

broxus wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Melissa, my recommendation for your other HQ choices would be a Sanguinary High Priest with a jump pack to hop around and share the +1 Strength buff to as many models as he can reasonably reach, and to also get within 3" of a squad to try and restore wounds or models to your terminator squads. I would also consider a Librarian or a Librarian Dreadnought for you other one.

I prefer the Librarian Dread as they are tough, characters, and their two Blood Angels specific buffing powers are both very good and useful. You can give your Librarian Dread a 4+ invulnerable save and you can buff another nearby unit with a bonus attack.

The only other thing you need, it seems, is some added ranged anti tank. A storm raven might be fun for this, or you could go with a predator or the like.

Best of luck, and take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Since that librarian dreadnaught is a "Character" with less than 10 wounds it can't be targeted in the shooting phase. Give that 4+ invul save to a unit in front of it.

Unless your dread is in melee combat, which is generally when I would advise doing it, or when charging something particularly dangerous and wanting some extra protection from a lucky overwatch shot. My point is you can spread the wealth sure, but there are times you're going to want to give that invulnerable save to yourself an that in those instances, you can.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Alert: per the recent FAQ, BA assault squads found their meltagun locker again.

So did all the other astartes, though. Which is fine.

Martel732 wrote:
So did all the other astartes, though. Which is fine.

Nay. The errata placed the new paragraph in that wargear sidebar box on the BA preamble page. (p. 89)

The one that allows heavy flamers in tac squads and inferno pistol/hand flamer on pistol/sergeant lists.

We still can't take Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers, or a Combi-Bolter on the Sergeant, but this is a step in the right direction.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
We still can't take Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers, or a Combi-Bolter on the Sergeant, but this is a step in the right direction.

Wait wut? The sidebar on p.89 specifically places inferno pistols and hand flamers on both our sergeant and pistols lists.
Also we could never take a combi-bolter on the sarge.

 niv-mizzet wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
We still can't take Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers, or a Combi-Bolter on the Sergeant, but this is a step in the right direction.

Wait wut? The sidebar on p.89 specifically places inferno pistols and hand flamers on both our sergeant and pistols lists.
Also we could never take a combi-bolter on the sarge.

Yes, but the Special Weapon Marines still can't take the Inferno Pistol or Hand Flamer like they could in 5e, 6e, and 7e. And yes, the Sergeant could take weapons from the Ranged Weapon list in 7e, which included Combi-Bolters.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
We still can't take Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers, or a Combi-Bolter on the Sergeant, but this is a step in the right direction.

Wait wut? The sidebar on p.89 specifically places inferno pistols and hand flamers on both our sergeant and pistols lists.
Also we could never take a combi-bolter on the sarge.

Yes, but the Special Weapon Marines still can't take the Inferno Pistol or Hand Flamer like they could in 5e, 6e, and 7e. And yes, the Sergeant could take weapons from the Ranged Weapon list in 7e, which included Combi-Bolters.

Which special weapon marines? The tac squad marine that decides to take a special? He only had access to special weapon lists and not pistols. If you were taking special pistols on a random tac squad guy that wasn't the sergeant, you misread the codex.

And Combi-bolters have not been on our ranged weapon list or anywhere in our armory altogether for...ever? Maybe they'll give us cataphractii termies at some point so we'd at least have them somewhere, but...

 niv-mizzet wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
We still can't take Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers, or a Combi-Bolter on the Sergeant, but this is a step in the right direction.

Wait wut? The sidebar on p.89 specifically places inferno pistols and hand flamers on both our sergeant and pistols lists.
Also we could never take a combi-bolter on the sarge.

Yes, but the Special Weapon Marines still can't take the Inferno Pistol or Hand Flamer like they could in 5e, 6e, and 7e. And yes, the Sergeant could take weapons from the Ranged Weapon list in 7e, which included Combi-Bolters.

Which special weapon marines? The tac squad marine that decides to take a special? He only had access to special weapon lists and not pistols. If you were taking special pistols on a random tac squad guy that wasn't the sergeant, you misread the codex.

And Combi-bolters have not been on our ranged weapon list or anywhere in our armory altogether for...ever? Maybe they'll give us cataphractii termies at some point so we'd at least have them somewhere, but...

I refer to the two Marines in Assault Squads that can swap their weapons out as Special Weapons Marines. In the 5e and 7e Codex, they could take Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers in addition to the Plasma Pistols, Flamers, Meltaguns, and Plasmaguns. And Combi-Weapons were in the Ranged Weapon List in 7e included Combi-Weapons, so yes, Assault Marine Sergeants could take Combi-Weapons. I am not talking Combi-Bolters(which are functionally identical to Storm Bolters anyway), I am talking Combi-Flamer/Plasma/Melta.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
We still can't take Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers, or a Combi-Bolter on the Sergeant, but this is a step in the right direction.

Wait wut? The sidebar on p.89 specifically places inferno pistols and hand flamers on both our sergeant and pistols lists.
Also we could never take a combi-bolter on the sarge.

Yes, but the Special Weapon Marines still can't take the Inferno Pistol or Hand Flamer like they could in 5e, 6e, and 7e. And yes, the Sergeant could take weapons from the Ranged Weapon list in 7e, which included Combi-Bolters.

Which special weapon marines? The tac squad marine that decides to take a special? He only had access to special weapon lists and not pistols. If you were taking special pistols on a random tac squad guy that wasn't the sergeant, you misread the codex.

And Combi-bolters have not been on our ranged weapon list or anywhere in our armory altogether for...ever? Maybe they'll give us cataphractii termies at some point so we'd at least have them somewhere, but...

I refer to the two Marines in Assault Squads that can swap their weapons out as Special Weapons Marines. In the 5e and 7e Codex, they could take Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers in addition to the Plasma Pistols, Flamers, Meltaguns, and Plasmaguns. And Combi-Weapons were in the Ranged Weapon List in 7e included Combi-Weapons, so yes, Assault Marine Sergeants could take Combi-Weapons. I am not talking Combi-Bolters(which are functionally identical to Storm Bolters anyway), I am talking Combi-Flamer/Plasma/Melta.

I would have to check on the special pistols in assault squad. I don't remember that being a thing, but then again I tend not to waste much time thinking about bad options.

However on the sergeant, I am well aware they could always take combi-specials, and they absolutely still can. Read yer book.

Combi-melta, 2 X melta incoming!

Assault Squad Sergeants can only take items from the Melee and Pistols list. Is a Combi-Weapon on either of those lists?

And I have my 5E codex open right now, Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers were options for the Flamer Marine.

Don't they get sergeant gear, too?

Martel732 wrote:
Don't they get sergeant gear, too?

No. They get Pistols and Melee Weapons. Not every Sergeant gets Sergeant Equipment.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Assault Squad Sergeants can only take items from the Melee and Pistols list. Is a Combi-Weapon on either of those lists?

And I have my 5E codex open right now, Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers were options for the Flamer Marine.

Sergeants get access to the sergeants list, which has all the Combi specials on it plus storm bolter. Edit: holy crap they can't?!

And yes, like I said, I didn't consider the special pistols worth taking on regular ASM in those editions, so I didn't bother to remember that they even could.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Huh, I wanted to call BS on that, but it is indeed true. Inexplicably, asm sergeants can't take sergeant gear.
This seems like an error.

 niv-mizzet wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Assault Squad Sergeants can only take items from the Melee and Pistols list. Is a Combi-Weapon on either of those lists?

And I have my 5E codex open right now, Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers were options for the Flamer Marine.

Sergeants get access to the sergeants list, which has all the Combi specials on it plus storm bolter.

And yes, like I said, I didn't consider the special pistols worth taking on regular ASM in those editions, so I didn't bother to remember that they even could.

Read your book. Each unit datasheet lists what items can be taken by a unit. Assault Marine Sergeants do no list Sergeant Equipment as an option. Every other unit that can take Sergeant Equipment lists Sergeant Equipment as an option.

Edit: Now you see! I agree, it is an error and it is an easy fix too. Just change the entry to Sergeant Equipment for Blood Angels instead of Pistols and Melee Weapons.