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The typical sergeants can take them though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Assault Squad Sergeants can only take items from the Melee and Pistols list. Is a Combi-Weapon on either of those lists?

And I have my 5E codex open right now, Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers were options for the Flamer Marine.

Sergeants get access to the sergeants list, which has all the Combi specials on it plus storm bolter.

And yes, like I said, I didn't consider the special pistols worth taking on regular ASM in those editions, so I didn't bother to remember that they even could.

Read your book. Each unit datasheet lists what items can be taken by a unit. Assault Marine Sergeants do no list Sergeant Equipment as an option. Every other unit that can take Sergeant Equipment lists Sergeant Equipment as an option.

Already checked. You right on this one. I can't even begin to fathom why a sergeant would not have access to the sergeant list, especially when they said old models would be legal. Like I said, it seems like an error, but RAW you got this one.

 niv-mizzet wrote:
The typical sergeants can take them though.

Yes, I am aware of that. But Assault Marine Sergeants are not typical and Blood Angels are even less so (except they are less typical by being MORE typical).

Edit: Seriously, we keep editing our posts while the other person is replying.

Aside from an error, the only other possibility I can think of is that they were tired of seeing not-choppy assault squads with 2x special and combi.

Although it seems like 2x melta and gunslinger plasma pistol sarge could work.

I am thinking about 2 plasma guns and a plasma pistol ASM squad. It is pretty cheap and packs a punch! Being able to fly away means they can always shoot.

The only other option is to give VV squad dual plasma pistols to have them as gunslingers.

Yes, BA assault squads are now quasi-special weapon squads, able to take more flamer, Plasma, and Melta shots than even a Tac squad (assuming 5 man squads), and might actually be worth taking now.

That's pretty nifty.

jcd386 wrote:
Yes, BA assault squads are now quasi-special weapon squads, able to take more flamer, Plasma, and Melta shots than even a Tac squad (assuming 5 man squads), and might actually be worth taking now.

That's pretty nifty.

BA Assault Squads have ALWAYS been this way. It was actually a huge Nerf to have them the way they were at 8E launch (and many of us, myself included, lost the ability to use our Squads the way they are supposed to be).

I might be finding a way to run an Outrider Detachment and Vanguard Detachment instead of a Battalion now. Screw Tacticals, I want Assault Squads!

Since BA can legally take Stormravens, you can use the ravens to drop off your assault marines fairly close to the enemy, which is something I've been mulling over in my brain every now and then.

I read the index imperium 1 faq's but I still don't understand whether the assault marine sergeant can take that combimelta. FAQ's don't say anything about the equipment at page 42 so I guess by RAW he cannot?

The only thing the FAQ did was let the squad take meltaguns.

I very much like the Company Veterans. Give them Jump Packs, Stormshields, and Combi Bolter/Plasmagun. The Plasmagun shoots 24", and its Rapid Fire1. You can deploy them more than 9" away from enemy Units, and shoot twice up to 12" with the Plasmagun. Thats 10 shots from a Unit of 5 with S7 AP-3 W1. Add a Captain with Jump Pack and you can go a bit suicidal, overcharging the Plasmaguns, rerolling 1s. 20 wounds at S8 AP-3 sound pretty good to me. Captain can also pick Stormshield and Combi Bolter/Plasmagun making it 12 shots, which can result in 24 wounds.

Hey guys, new around here, picking up the game again after a 15 year hiatus, last played 3rd edition.

So I'm building back an army, and got the Death Company Strike Force (15 DC units, chaplain, dreadnaught), an extra box for DC units (five more), the BA Start Collecting box (10 tactical units, terminator captain, Baal pred), Lamartes, a Stormhawk/Stormtalon model, and the Stormraven.

I've assembled 15 of the DC, 13 with bolt pistols and chain swords, one with a plasma pistol and power sword, one with a power fist and inferno pistol, and one with a thunder hammer (for some versatility). When I get the extra box of five, not sure how I'll build them.

I put the tactical squad together as two groups of 5, both sargents with chain swords and flamer pistols, one heavy flamer unit and one regular flamer. From what I gather, tactical aren't very useful so I plan on getting two razorbacks to give them mobility..

I still haven't built the dreadnaught yet. Should I make it Death Company or go for the librarian? I was planning on putting the DC dread into the Stormraven with 5 DC and the chaplain, and having the other 15 DC drop in with Lamartes. But it sounds like DC dread isn't very good.

I was going to build the Stormtalon for support and to try and draw fire/cover my Stormraven and DC. I'm waiting to get some magnets before building this and the Baal pred.

Terminator captain that came with the start collecting box appears to be useless. Is that correct?

I'm looking into getting 2 vet squads, and maybe a squad of 5 scouts. Anything else I should get?

senor_flojo wrote:
Hey guys, new around here, picking up the game again after a 15 year hiatus, last played 3rd edition.

So I'm building back an army, and got the Death Company Strike Force (15 DC units, chaplain, dreadnaught), an extra box for DC units (five more), the BA Start Collecting box (10 tactical units, terminator captain, Baal pred), Lamartes, a Stormhawk/Stormtalon model, and the Stormraven.

I've assembled 15 of the DC, 13 with bolt pistols and chain swords, one with a plasma pistol and power sword, one with a power fist and inferno pistol, and one with a thunder hammer (for some versatility). When I get the extra box of five, not sure how I'll build them.

I put the tactical squad together as two groups of 5, both sargents with chain swords and flamer pistols, one heavy flamer unit and one regular flamer. From what I gather, tactical aren't very useful so I plan on getting two razorbacks to give them mobility..

I still haven't built the dreadnaught yet. Should I make it Death Company or go for the librarian? I was planning on putting the DC dread into the Stormraven with 5 DC and the chaplain, and having the other 15 DC drop in with Lamartes. But it sounds like DC dread isn't very good.

I was going to build the Stormtalon for support and to try and draw fire/cover my Stormraven and DC. I'm waiting to get some magnets before building this and the Baal pred.

Terminator captain that came with the start collecting box appears to be useless. Is that correct?

I'm looking into getting 2 vet squads, and maybe a squad of 5 scouts. Anything else I should get?

First: On the DC, the ones you have coming in will probably want to take on several more power swords. Power weapons in this edition are very competitively priced, and so are a cheap upgrade that makes your dudes much more threatening in general. I myself need to get some more power sword DC now.

I'm not a fan of hand flamers. Little bit too weak for me. Really after a while you'll probably just have a big collection of the standard power armor guys painted red with all combos of pistols and melee weapons so you can take what benefits the squad and/or what you can afford to upgrade to with the last few points. Since bland power armor marines are a dime a dozen, you can just try a bunch of different loadouts without hitting your wallet too hard.

For dreads, I'm not terribly a fan of the BA specific ones. They seem ok yet pricy. And if I were to run them, they would absolutely go in a raven.

The storm hawk/talon is actually not a BA unit. You can still take it via astartes or imperium detachments, but it won't benefit from BA buffs/powers etc. This might become way more relevant once we have codexes and (most likely) get neat bonuses for keeping our armies 100% theme-specific. Currently there's no real downside to tossing in imperial-whatevers to your detachments, but I can imagine that chapter tactics in the future will probably be like "...If every model in the detachment is BLOOD ANGELS..." That's just conjecture though.

Captains give the reroll 1's to hit aura, so the termie and jump pack captains kinda compete with each other for the same role: Deep striking in with a shock assault force or flanking shooting force and buffing them. Depends on if you want a mobile captain after the landing or a tougher one, as several wounds of 2+/4++ is not fragile.

A lot of things in our army list are now decent/good, so it's hard to say where to go with your purchases. Bland captains or Tycho make decent cheap reroll 1's auras for a mob of your dudes. Razorbacks are shockingly good. Sniper scouts can stick a few wounds past really good saves and target characters, so invaluable when facing say...a tide of necron warriors next to a cryptek.
I'm a fan of Mephiston, being able to 2x/turn deny at +1 and protect your dudes a bit from psychic attack, while having decent powers and still being one of those "I eat entire squads by myself" guys, all while being only middle-ground priced for an HQ.

You also probably want to start building up a store of heavy weapon guys. Big hitter weapons can be really important when your opponent is all mech'd up. Devastators, predators, shooty dreads etc.

 niv-mizzet wrote:

The storm hawk/talon is actually not a BA unit. You can still take it via astartes or imperium detachments, but it won't benefit from BA buffs/powers etc. This might become way more relevant once we have codexes and (most likely) get neat bonuses for keeping our armies 100% theme-specific. Currently there's no real downside to tossing in imperial-whatevers to your detachments, but I can imagine that chapter tactics in the future will probably be like "...If every model in the detachment is BLOOD ANGELS..." That's just conjecture though.

Yeah, I know it's not "official" BA but that doesn't seem to matter at this point. I know I can't give it BA buffs.

senor_flojo wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:

The storm hawk/talon is actually not a BA unit. You can still take it via astartes or imperium detachments, but it won't benefit from BA buffs/powers etc. This might become way more relevant once we have codexes and (most likely) get neat bonuses for keeping our armies 100% theme-specific. Currently there's no real downside to tossing in imperial-whatevers to your detachments, but I can imagine that chapter tactics in the future will probably be like "...If every model in the detachment is BLOOD ANGELS..." That's just conjecture though.

Yeah, I know it's not "official" BA but that doesn't seem to matter at this point. I know I can't give it BA buffs.

Just tossing it out there, as I feel like it would be a disservice if you didn't know and no one informed you.

 Melissia wrote:
Since BA can legally take Stormravens, you can use the ravens to drop off your assault marines fairly close to the enemy, which is something I've been mulling over in my brain every now and then.

Not a bad idea. Now that Drop Pods are severely overpriced, that might be a worthwhile option. Previously I ran 2 meltacide pod-squads. For the price of the 2 pods, I am not a long way off the cost of a Storm Raven which I think is a far more powerful unit. I can fit both squads in and drop them off at a convenient point without even having to drop into Hover mode.

A DC Dread might be fun as well. 4 Meltas will deal with most targets but against really tough opponents, following up with a DC Dread with Magna grapples should ensure a knock-out blow.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
good info soon.

Also, I'll say that blood angels tactical squads do have a use. Horde clearing. With the ability to take a Heavy Flamer and a Combilfamer with 5 marines in a rhino (least expensive option) or Razorback with a twin heavy flamer or, my personal preference, a twin assault cannon, you can put a potential high load of wounds onto a squad with a relatively low point investment. This is what I plan on doing with any tactical squads I have, personally speaking.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I'd just paint your Tacs helmets blue and take Devs instead with multiple Heavy Flamers (and the Cherub to double tap one of them)

What would be a better use of points, two Assault Cannon+Heavy Bolter Baal Predators or a MM+Assault Cannon+Hurricane Bolter Stormraven?

Bartali wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
good info soon.

Also, I'll say that blood angels tactical squads do have a use. Horde clearing. With the ability to take a Heavy Flamer and a Combilfamer with 5 marines in a rhino (least expensive option) or Razorback with a twin heavy flamer or, my personal preference, a twin assault cannon, you can put a potential high load of wounds onto a squad with a relatively low point investment. This is what I plan on doing with any tactical squads I have, personally speaking.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I'd just paint your Tacs helmets blue and take Devs instead with multiple Heavy Flamers (and the Cherub to double tap one of them)

I think the "loadout of choice" is 5 man, heavy flamer, combi-flamer in a razorback with twin assault cannons, a storm bolter and HK missile. It's a TON of firepower for like ~180-190 points. Also lets you fill out a battalion if you need troop fillers.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
What would be a better use of points, two Assault Cannon+Heavy Bolter Baal Predators or a MM+Assault Cannon+Hurricane Bolter Stormraven?

I am leaning towards the Storm Raven. Whilst it has less wounds than 2 Predators, the -1 to hit helps out a bit and the dakka from the hurricane bolters is great fun. Don't forget that POTMS helps its accuracy too.

However to really get the value out of the SR, you need to be taking advantage of its transport capacity. Getting a Dreadnought and 1-2 squads of infantry close to the enemy at high speed. Now that our Assault squads have found the keys to the special weapons cabinet again, we can fit 2 meltacide squads in there to bust heavy targets plus a DC dread tagging along for the ride. Mephy + Command squad or some Assault Terminators are also viable passengers.

If you are not using the Transport capacity of the SR then the Predators are probably better (although 3 Razorbacks with Assault Cannons would arguably be even better and would still give you some transport capacity). If you can make use of a fast, large durable transport then the SR has a lot in its favour.

I probably won't be using the transport ability, so I will look into another Baal Predator.

Looking at it, I can't help but remark if a couple intercessor squads might be worth taking to sit on objectives and take up troop slots to give more command points. They've got a superb point-per-wound cost for a space marine unit, and they have good range on their AP-1 bolt rifles. Might be a good choice of backline objective-sitters while sparing points for death company and the like.

 Melissia wrote:
Looking at it, I can't help but remark if a couple intercessor squads might be worth taking to sit on objectives and take up troop slots to give more command points. They've got a superb point-per-wound cost for a space marine unit, and they have good range on their AP-1 bolt rifles. Might be a good choice of backline objective-sitters while sparing points for death company and the like.

Not a bad idea. Slightly more expensive than a 5-man tac squad but not much different once you add in the obligatory heavy weapon. The difference is that a Tac squad needs that heavy weapon to achieve anything significant. The Intecessors can manage more with their basic bolt rifles. Good if you want the 3CPs from a Battalion.

However I am still leaning towards the Vanguard and supreme command detachments and playing to our strengths. You get slightly fewer CPs but you can avoid the Troop "tax" entirely. I think some experimentation is called for.

There's also one more advantage. You get ten wounds, but only have to provide cover for five models. They're slightly larger than tacticals, yes, but still only five models. To get ten wounds with tacticals you'd need two 5-man squads or one ten-man squad, which is a lot harder to give cover to, especially with the new cover rules.

Edit: So basically I'm saying Intercessor squads are superior bullet sponges over tacticals or scouts, point for point. Which is quite a useful feature for a troops choice.

 Carnage43 wrote:

Bartali wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
good info soon.

Also, I'll say that blood angels tactical squads do have a use. Horde clearing. With the ability to take a Heavy Flamer and a Combilfamer with 5 marines in a rhino (least expensive option) or Razorback with a twin heavy flamer or, my personal preference, a twin assault cannon, you can put a potential high load of wounds onto a squad with a relatively low point investment. This is what I plan on doing with any tactical squads I have, personally speaking.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I'd just paint your Tacs helmets blue and take Devs instead with multiple Heavy Flamers (and the Cherub to double tap one of them)

I think the "loadout of choice" is 5 man, heavy flamer, combi-flamer in a razorback with twin assault cannons, a storm bolter and HK missile. It's a TON of firepower for like ~180-190 points. Also lets you fill out a battalion if you need troop fillers.

More like ~250pts


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This is a Brigade list I've been working on. Trying the age old method of more boots on the ground wins games. I know it only has 3 tanks, which may make them a liability. I ay take them out, but what should I replace them with? What are you thoughts on the list? Too many squishy bodies?

I need some clarification on the Stormraven as transport:

12 infantry and a dreadnought is pretty straightforward, but then it says jump pack or terminator "takes the space of two other infantry models..."

So is that 1+2=3 of 12, or 4 models per Stormraven? Or 1+1=2 of 12, or 6 models?

6 models with jp/term per Raven

Pasek wrote:
6 models with jp/term per Raven

Or six terminators, which is a basic squad of 5+character. Perfect for having an ancient + assault squad (rerolling all hits in the fight phase is brutal!)

 Melissia wrote:
Or six terminators, which is a basic squad of 5+character. Perfect for having an ancient + assault squad (rerolling all hits in the fight phase is brutal!)

Yeah, I figured JP = Terminators in this instance. It's just the wording in the rule book is a little convoluted.


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Oh, GW released info on codexes, starting this December (though nothing mentioned specific regarding BA)

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/your-codex-is-coming-july-5gw-homepage-post-1/

Looks like we have at least 3-6 months without a codex (maybe longer), unless we're grouped with generic SM which is doubtful.

Yeah, I expect Blood Angels to be out in the second batch of marine books after the first four are released.