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Just curious if 5 Death Company in a razorback would have enough staying power or I should stick with larger squads jump packing in. My thoughts were to use 5 DC with a Razorback and Assault Canon. Keep the DC without any upgrades mostly.

So can we maybe get a review of our special units? Ive only had a couple of games but ive found a few units that put in work:

Dante makes a great beat stick from what ive found, if he charges something its probably going to die. Re-rolls to hit are nice but its a shame that Sanguinary guard get re-rolls when near a character, youd think it would be re-rolls to wound instead since dante + captains already give wounds but never mind.

Jump pack Company vets with plasma guns put in serious work especially when deep striking in with Dante for sweet over charged re-rolls.

Mephiston is a beast, hits hard and psychic buffs are always useful. For his points he always does well.

Death Company are the blender unit they've always been, cast unleash rage and they just murder things, a couple of hidden thunder hammers and they can also make a mess of big things.

Ive been a bit underwhelmed by Sanguinary guard when I've played them, they just seem a bit expensive. Ive also not had much luck with the priest, I think i prefer the Librarian with Sanguine Shield for the 4++ instead of reviving wounds but ill admit I probably need to play them more to get a better feel for them.

Tacticals with heavy flamer, combi flamer and twin assault razorback has been great for anti horde so they still have a use.

As I say I've not had that many games so far so would like to see what other people think?

 fatbudda319 wrote:
Dante makes a great beat stick from what ive found, if he charges something its probably going to die. Re-rolls to hit are nice but its a shame that Sanguinary guard get re-rolls when near a character, youd think it would be re-rolls to wound instead since dante + captains already give wounds but never mind.

Because he gives rerolls to anything, I like to run him with Vanguard or Company Veterans. A few Thunder Hammers really help to wreck large targets and they really benefit from Dante's rerolls. VanVets can be run as larger squads but Company Vets can be used to intercept wounds on Dante in close combat which helps keep him alive and kicking for longer.

 fatbudda319 wrote:

Ive been a bit underwhelmed by Sanguinary guard when I've played them, they just seem a bit expensive. Ive also not had much luck with the priest, I think i prefer the Librarian with Sanguine Shield for the 4++ instead of reviving wounds but ill admit I probably need to play them more to get a better feel for them.

Run them with a Sanguinary Ancient as a cheap Warlord (he gives himself rerolls as well as the Squad) and allows them all to reroll 1s to wound which helps their damage output. Add a Priest for +1S and wound healing and you are good to go. Best loadout in this configuration is probably Glaives.

If you want to run them with a Libby then Sanguine Shield and Unleash Rage are really nice but not guaranteed (unlike the Priest's bonuses which are less powerful but cannot be countered). In this configuration I would probably go for Axes as S5 is a bit of a sweetspot on the to-wound chart.

senor_flojo wrote:
Definitely looks like a character-killing army. looks like it will work, but 5" movement is gonna slow you down. I'd expand with either DC or some mobility options like vanguard vets or an assault squad. You might be able to use the teleport homer to your advantage with the terminators, but I don't know if you can depend on it.

I mentioned three ways I was thinking of expanding.

Sanguinary guard are actually very durable AND mobile. Jump them into cover and get a 1+ save? Sign me up.

 Melissia wrote:

senor_flojo wrote:
Definitely looks like a character-killing army. looks like it will work, but 5" movement is gonna slow you down. I'd expand with either DC or some mobility options like vanguard vets or an assault squad. You might be able to use the teleport homer to your advantage with the terminators, but I don't know if you can depend on it.

I mentioned three ways I was thinking of expanding.

Sorry, just giving my opinion

I played 4 matches in 8th edition so far and I've been literally tabled out by sisters, dark eldars, eldar and tau. In all occasions I couldn't manage to go further than the third turn.
What I noticed is:
- deep striking units that don't manage to charge die miserably
-a single stormraven is not enough (but I only have one damn it), especially if the enemy player manages to steal the initiative
- land speeders are useless
- assault squads with jump pack are good but they don't deliver enough dakka to kill a vehicle in a round of shooting and they get obliterated.
- no matter what edition we're in, even if 8th looks better for everybody in general, I guess I suck at this game xD

I need some more details. However:

Deep strike out of LoS, helps a lot.
Single storm raven is fine if there are other things to draw fire.
Land speeders are much better than before
ASM can have melta, so they can assist in killing a vehicle for sure.

Need an example list.

Martel732 wrote:
I need some more details. However:

Deep strike out of LoS, helps a lot.
Single storm raven is fine if there are other things to draw fire.
Land speeders are much better than before
ASM can have melta, so they can assist in killing a vehicle for sure.

Need an example list.

Here s my last list I played against the tau:

Outrider Detachment:

HQ

sanguinary priest

Fast attack

5 x assault squad: 2x plasma gun, sergeant with plasma pistol and chainsword
5 x assault squad: 2x plasma gun, sergeant with plasma pistol and chainsword

land speeder, heavy bolter and typhoon missile launcher
land speeder, heavy bolter and typhoon missile launcher

Dedicated transport

Razorback, twin assault cannon
Razorback, twin assault cannon


Vanguard detachment

Chief Librarian Mephiston

Elites

5x death company, 3x chainsword and bolt pistol, 1x power sword and bolt pistol, 1x thunderhammer

5x death company, 3x chainsword and bolt pistol, 1x power sword and bolt pistol, 1x thunderhammer

Furioso dreadnought, frag cannon, furioso fist, meltagun, smoke launchers magna grapple

4x Sanguinary guard, encarmine sword and plasma pistol

Flyer

Stormraven: 2x stormstrike missile launcher, twin assault cannon, typhoon missile launcher, 2x hurricane bolter


I had mephiston, the two DC units and the furioso embarked onto the raven, while the two assault squads where embarked upon the razorbacks.


The tau player had 5 FW skimmers that were able to almost always hit on 2 re-rolling 1 a flyer and a commander with 6 strange drones in reserve. He managed to stole the initiative: he killed the raven and the 2 razorback turn 1 because he decided to already deep strike his commander and these drones who have a lot of dakka

You were up against ForgeWorld, which seems poorly tested, and you got seized on. Seems like your list was a minor factor.

That being said, there is not much to distract fire from the Raven. Maybe it needs it have fewer points embarked.

If you want to deepstrike, to take out a Vehicle, use 5 Company Veterans with Jumppacks, Stormshields and Combi-Meltas. Adding a Captain with Jumppack, Stormshield and Combi-Melta will let you reroll 1s to hit. Or give them Combi-Plasmaguns, not so good at killing Vehicles (you can supercharge though, rerolling 1s with the Captain), but really good when firing Overwatch, 20 Shots. Because they can fly, they can fallback and shoot, when they get charged.

Or use 5 Vanguard Veterans to deepstrike, with 2 Plasma Pistols each. Also not the best choice at killing Vehicles, but 10 Shots Overwatch is not bad. Adding a Captain with Jumppack, and also with two Plasmaguns lets you reroll 1s, if you decide to supercharge them. In CC they can use their Pistols. And they can fallback, and shoot, because they can fly. You can also replace one Plasmapistol with a Stormshield, for better Protection.

Adding a Sanguinary Priest with Jumppack isnt a bad Idea, either. He can revive killed Models, from a supercharged Plasmagun/Pistol, killed in CC, or whatever.

Sanguinary priests are quite damn good for their points.
That +1s alone would be worth the price, but then add in that they're an apothecary on top of it...

senor_flojo wrote:
Sorry, just giving my opinion

... did you even read the three ways I mentioned I was thinking of expanding?

FFS....

p5freak wrote:
If you want to deepstrike, to take out a Vehicle, use 5 Company Veterans with Jumppacks, Stormshields and Combi-Meltas. Adding a Captain with Jumppack, Stormshield and Combi-Melta will let you reroll 1s to hit. Or give them Combi-Plasmaguns, not so good at killing Vehicles (you can supercharge though, rerolling 1s with the Captain), but really good when firing Overwatch, 20 Shots. Because they can fly, they can fallback and shoot, when they get charged.

Or use 5 Vanguard Veterans to deepstrike, with 2 Plasma Pistols each. Also not the best choice at killing Vehicles, but 10 Shots Overwatch is not bad. Adding a Captain with Jumppack, and also with two Plasmaguns lets you reroll 1s, if you decide to supercharge them. In CC they can use their Pistols. And they can fallback, and shoot, because they can fly. You can also replace one Plasmapistol with a Stormshield, for better Protection.

Adding a Sanguinary Priest with Jumppack isnt a bad Idea, either. He can revive killed Models, from a supercharged Plasmagun/Pistol, killed in CC, or whatever.

That sounds really interesting thanks a lot. We are playing with PP and a five man unit will cost 10, which is exactly the same as the SG and DC with jump pack. The sad news is that I own 0 company veterans and have 0 combi-melta left xD

Hi everyone, I'm a matt ward blood angel and I'm finally trying to get back into the hobby. ^_^ My absence was more job/location related and just happened to coincide with sixth and seventh being a dumpster fire for all but the hardest core. I still bought the books and dreamed of playing though.

Anyway, I just read this whole thread and here are my takeaways:

1. JP company veteran melta squad is a far better investment for wrecking what needs wrecking than a melta assault squad.

2.Because of 1, don't take assault squads for assault. Take vanguard vets instead. Kit it out similar to an assault squad with no meltas and it's a far greater investment if you intend to smack things. (TH, couple storm shields, x7 chain swords.)

3. Do not bank on deep strike assaulting. Only bank on that if you bring Lemartes. Even that should be in conjunction with storm raven dropping its payload. SR exists so you can get fewer drops and first turn.

4. Basically assault squads are dead to me. Gonna be repainting 30+ helmets.

5. That battle report against Tau was just unfortunate.

6. Intercessors are the best point for point objective holders, no one takes ten man squads anyway now. However, you pay tactical tax for the honor of a missile launcher and razorback. Please correct me if an intercessor can unlock razorbacks for your list.

7. storm bolters on vehicles are always worth it now.

 brokbrok wrote:
6. Intercessors are the best point for point objective holders, no one takes ten man squads anyway now. However, you pay tactical tax for the honor of a missile launcher and razorback. Please correct me if an intercessor can unlock razorbacks for your list.

As far as I know you only need one unit (any kind) for each transport unit in your army. Which means that you can run a full Primaris army with Razorbacks.

The appeal of the assault squads in razorbacks for me is that they can take two rapid fire plasma guns and the sergeant can take a pistol. I know they have one base attack so the name assault isn't kind of silly for them but with two special weapons in a squad of 5 or 6...they have better firepower than tacticals.

Codex should return them to their former status as troops.

I would be careful with the sanguinary priest, it basically do nothing a turn out of 2 and this is extremly expensive if you fail rolls. The price is mostly 2 more figs in any elite units. Test and see.

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

PandatheWarrior wrote:
I would be careful with the sanguinary priest, it basically do nothing a turn out of 2 and this is extremly expensive if you fail rolls. The price is mostly 2 more figs in any elite units. Test and see.

I wouldn't go hog wild with them but I think they are going to be a pretty good investment if you bring 1 priest, MAYBE 2, probably 1 though. I mean, he's a pretty beefy body, can be equipped pretty cheaply with power axe and plasma pistol, and has a nice stat line to help bring the pain in CC and hopefully gets to bring back or heal up some units in the process. might be better tagging along with Sang guard with encarmine swords, since healing wounds is automatic and you don't risk standing around doing nothing quite as much.

If you're using death company, I'd say one sanguinary priest is an auto-take. Basically doubles their ability to get back up from taking damage, and makes your points investment in upgrades on the DC much easier to swallow.

Though I'm considering a sang priest to go with terminators... if only I could get a sang priest in a terminator suit...

The Sanguinary Novitiate (Apothecary) with a jump pack is a nice cheap 4 wound elite choice at 4 Power Level. While it doesn't give the benefit of the +1 Strength from the High Priest option, running one with a death company or Sanguinary Guard squad to help heal wounds or bring models back is a big help for sure.

I've been having good success with mine, anyway.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I think the +1 S aura is ballin. It makes our power swords into the weapon of choice on the power weapon triangle, which is fitting.

I'm really not impressed with nartheciums on bland apothecaries/novitiates in this edition. Even on Corb who gets a personal reroll every turn to use for it. Just seems like unless you're bringing back an uber-model like a centurion, you would've been better off just taking more dudes.

With the BA addition of the S aura and the fact that our priests are melee threats in themselves, I like the BA priests though. I just consider the narthecium use to be an occasional good happenstance if it comes up.

Try nartheciums on death company. Basically lets them get two rolls, one's a 6+ and another's a 4+.

 Melissia wrote:
Try nartheciums on death company. Basically lets them get two rolls, one's a 6+ and another's a 4+.

But it's not a FNP, it's a single 4+ to get a single dude back on your next movement phase, regardless of how many just went down around the priest, that carries the risk of failing and making the priest freeze up. I mean I run a priest with a DC contingent for the aura already, but the narthecium does jack all as far as damage mitigation on power armor 1 wounders. If you're taking fire, you aren't losing a dude, you're losing a dozen.

And the 4+ to get a single dude back helps mitigate those that fail that 6+ test-- which is likely to be at least one if ya get my drift . Never said it was FNP. But it alongside +1 strength is superb.

I bring the priest just for the +1 Strength buff and I only used the narthecium once to bring back a single sanguinary guard. It's too risky to use his healing ability to bring back a single 1 wound model even if you use a re-roll which, according to me, is wasted anyway.
During my 4 games I played so far, I sadly noticed that when DC fails the charge, you are starring at 5 dead models and there s not much left to heal xD

 Melissia wrote:
And the 4+ to get a single dude back helps mitigate those that fail that 6+ test-- which is likely to be at least one if ya get my drift . Never said it was FNP. But it alongside +1 strength is superb.

I was talking more about red-thirst's suggestion to bring a bland novitiate which doesn't have the aura or a good combat statline. I just don't see the healbot character ever earning his keep unless he's babysitting some extremely expensive models like centurions (which aren't in BA anyway) or inceptors, and then you run the risk of being treated like a necron unit, IE getting wiped without the chance to heal, not that one of those dudes coming back on 1 wound is anything to be compared with half a unit standing back up.

Like I said, the priests are bangin, they rock a solid melee character statline and have the awesome strength aura. I'd probably take them even without the narthecium. The narthecium and the bland guys that are just a body attached to it? No thanks.

 brokbrok wrote:

Anyway, I just read this whole thread and here are my takeaways:

1. JP company veteran melta squad is a far better investment for wrecking what needs wrecking than a melta assault squad.

2.Because of 1, don't take assault squads for assault. Take vanguard vets instead. Kit it out similar to an assault squad with no meltas and it's a far greater investment if you intend to smack things. (TH, couple storm shields, x7 chain swords.)

Yup, this is pretty much spot-on. The Vanguard Detachment with its 3-6 Elite slots is your friend.

 brokbrok wrote:

3. Do not bank on deep strike assaulting. Only bank on that if you bring Lemartes. Even that should be in conjunction with storm raven dropping its payload. SR exists so you can get fewer drops and first turn.

Even with Lemartes, you only have around a 50% chance to pull off a Charge out of Deep Strike. Not good enough odds for me, I would rather run the Jump Packers on foot behind a vehicle screen or just put them in transports.

 brokbrok wrote:

4. Basically assault squads are dead to me. Gonna be repainting 30+ helmets.

Pretty much sums them up. The only point I can see is you want to run a Battalion or Brigade detachment for the extra CPs and have run out of Elite slots. Personally I wouldn't build an army in this way as I believe if you hit hard enough with good units, you will need fewer CPs anyway.

 brokbrok wrote:

6. Intercessors are the best point for point objective holders, no one takes ten man squads anyway now. However, you pay tactical tax for the honor of a missile launcher and razorback. Please correct me if an intercessor can unlock razorbacks for your list.

Currently any unit can unlock a Transport, including Intercessors. This does create odd situations like taking a Razorback for your Land Raider to ride around in but it is perfectly legal. Also it is in the main rulebook rather than the Index so I don't see it being changed in a hurry.

For 100 points, Intercessors look like a solid back-field unit.

 brokbrok wrote:

7. storm bolters on vehicles are always worth it now.

Yes indeed! MORE DAKKA!

ASM are cheap, mobile melta that doesn't have to pay for a tank.

Martel732 wrote:
ASM are cheap, mobile melta that doesn't have to pay for a tank.

That's the thing though, you get more for less with Company veterans w/ JP. The infernus pistol is useless when they DS so you really only get 2 melta before they probably die. One will miss, the other might wound. For a few points more you could bring in five whole melta guns and all but guarantee that one thing you need to die will die, or you could bring 2 meltas and a combi, with one ablative wound, for less points than the ASM melta squad.

Ministry had an alright point though, they are more efficient in a roving plasma squad.