Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 brokbrok wrote:


I'd be interested to hear if you have land raider success. I stopped bringing termies in 5th cause I'm an above average 1 roller.

Lol I hear you, I play Deathwing too, although the 2 wounds plus CPs have helped tremendously with those errant 1's. I see people using CPs to try and make their 5++ saves, but thats crazy, use the re-rolls on the 1's when you just need 2+'s, almost guaranteed, plus Shooty terms are MUCH better now with storm bolters that put out 4 shots a piece at 12" and assault cannons that put out 6 shots. Though with BA, Corbulo, maybe a terminator ancient or chaplain and a squad of 3-4 LCs and 1-2 TH/SS seems like they might be pretty good. I wonder though if terms would be better in the stormraven instead to give them more mobility and get them where you need them faster.

Stormraven termies is so metal. (ʘ言ʘ╬) It's no deep striking land raider, but if we make enough sacrifices to the emperor we'll get that back.

Any excuse to bring Corbulo is fantastic. I didn't realize he can re-roll his healing every turn until someone pointed it out a few posts back. Talk about ridiculous staying power.

 brokbrok wrote:
Stormraven termies is so metal. (ʘ言ʘ╬) It's no deep striking land raider, but if we make enough sacrifices to the emperor we'll get that back.

Any excuse to bring Corbulo is fantastic. I didn't realize he can re-roll his healing every turn until someone pointed it out a few posts back. Talk about ridiculous staying power.

On top of extra attacks for every 6 to hit off your terms, so if you run 3-4 LC's and a couple TH's, your looking at 14ish attacks and probably an extra 2-3 and with a chaplain your re-rolling all those hits. It'd all be pretty expensive though, in the 700's.

 brokbrok wrote:
Stormraven termies is so metal. (ʘ言ʘ╬) It's no deep striking land raider, but if we make enough sacrifices to the emperor we'll get that back.

Any excuse to bring Corbulo is fantastic. I didn't realize he can re-roll his healing every turn until someone pointed it out a few posts back. Talk about ridiculous staying power.

You have to pay for those he ressurrects, though. That's not so hot.

Martel732 wrote:

 brokbrok wrote:
Stormraven termies is so metal. (ʘ言ʘ╬) It's no deep striking land raider, but if we make enough sacrifices to the emperor we'll get that back.

Any excuse to bring Corbulo is fantastic. I didn't realize he can re-roll his healing every turn until someone pointed it out a few posts back. Talk about ridiculous staying power.

You have to pay for those he ressurrects, though. That's not so hot.

you absolutely do not. only when creating NEW units do you have to pay for them. Apothecaries only resurrect guys you've already paid for or add wounds back onto wounded models. all 3 questions about making new units, adding to old units, and transforming one model into another were put in the 40k rulebook FAQ.

So Nids don't pay to add termagants to old units?

Martel732 wrote:
So Nids don't pay to add termagants to old units?

If you're "replace up to ten models lost earlier in the battle in an existing units of Termagants," then no, those are free.

If you're adding a new unit of up to ten gants, then you pay for those.

Really unit summoning is just a different wording for Reserve mechanics. Summoning daemons is mechanically the same as setting up terminators in the teleportarium.

Couple of smites with the psyker boosting strategem in the SM codex and your termi gang dies very quick.

p5freak wrote:
Couple of smites with the psyker boosting strategem in the SM codex and your termi gang dies very quick.

5 Termies and Corbs leaves one transport slot free for a Librarian to help stop psychic trickery like this and cast Unleash Rage on the the Termies. Mephiston would make for an even bigger beatstick!

 Karhedron wrote:

5 Termies and Corbs leaves one transport slot free for a Librarian to help stop psychic trickery like this and cast Unleash Rage on the the Termies. Mephiston would make for an even bigger beatstick!

That would be possible, but the psyker boosting stratagem adds 2 to my roll. Your librarian can only counter one. Mephiston could counter two. I need three psykers, they can cast six psyker spells.

Do blood angels get access to the different hellblaster load outs and as a result the cheaper rapid firing hellblasters? As they come in at 165 in the codex marines vs 190 in the index?

fatbudda319 wrote:
Do blood angels get access to the different hellblaster load outs and as a result the cheaper rapid firing hellblasters? As they come in at 165 in the codex marines vs 190 in the index?

I think Games Workshop said yes to this (but I wouldn't bother buying the codex for BA since all the relevant units will be in BA).

p5freak wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

5 Termies and Corbs leaves one transport slot free for a Librarian to help stop psychic trickery like this and cast Unleash Rage on the the Termies. Mephiston would make for an even bigger beatstick!

That would be possible, but the psyker boosting stratagem adds 2 to my roll. Your librarian can only counter one. Mephiston could counter two. I need three psykers, they can cast six psyker spells.

Sure but how many SM armies have the 3 librarians needed to use the strat? Not very many. So on the off chance you run into it, you might have to use different tactics. Otherwise it is not really worth worrying about.

 Frozocrone wrote:

fatbudda319 wrote:
Do blood angels get access to the different hellblaster load outs and as a result the cheaper rapid firing hellblasters? As they come in at 165 in the codex marines vs 190 in the index?

I think Games Workshop said yes to this (but I wouldn't bother buying the codex for BA since all the relevant units will be in BA).

Yes they do. I believe the new Hellblaster boxes come with a sheet including points for matched play for use by non-codex Chapters. Pretty sure there will be a scan of it up on the web by the end of the weekend.

jcd386 wrote:

Sure but how many SM armies have the 3 librarians needed to use the strat? Not very many. So on the off chance you run into it, you might have to use different tactics. Otherwise it is not really worth worrying about.

I was thinking about using it. Either with JP, or put them in a RB, with company veterans as bodyguards.

So I had a porcelain throne epiphany.

With all the assault buffs we see so many different codex and chaos armies getting, it's hard to imagine what they're going to give Blood Angels to make them be amazing and on par with the World Eaters, while trying to keep their rage in check so they can still live in polite society. I think I got it.

Army wide, I want that ability that Wulfen have where they attack back when they die. Death frenzy?

That way we're still codex marines, we don't have overpowered assault but can still buff up with ICs, but we are unquestionably good at hand to hand. When we get charged by khorne berserkers, yes we die, yes they're still great, but we make them pay for every casualty. This also wouldn't be overpowered cause non assault armies can fall back and shoot. like they would be doing anyway.

I think this is perfectly fluffy, strong, and rewarding. I know it won't happen, but gosh I want it and can't think of anything better.

 brokbrok wrote:
So I had a porcelain throne epiphany.

With all the assault buffs we see so many different codex and chaos armies getting, it's hard to imagine what they're going to give Blood Angels to make them be amazing and on par with the World Eaters, while trying to keep their rage in check so they can still live in polite society. I think I got it.

Army wide, I want that ability that Wulfen have where they attack back when they die. Death frenzy?

That way we're still codex marines, we don't have overpowered assault but can still buff up with ICs, but we are unquestionably good at hand to hand. When we get charged by khorne berserkers, yes we die, yes they're still great, but we make them pay for every casualty. This also wouldn't be overpowered cause non assault armies can fall back and shoot. like they would be doing anyway.

I think this is perfectly fluffy, strong, and rewarding. I know it won't happen, but gosh I want it and can't think of anything better.

I personally don't want our special ability to rely on the death of my marines. Maybe that works for DC, but I'd rather not have that be what makes my army special. I'd much rather have some sort of +S or + A or advance/charge rule. Maybe something for JP.

I'd be very happy if they gave us +1 Attack in Close Combat, +2 Attacks when they charge. Would that be too overpowered?

I'd prefer the DC retain the bonus to attack on the charge and the 6+ ignore wound roll and then give an army wide rule that allows charging after advancing if a model is equipped with a Jump Pack.

Let us get in and chop while making the best use of our aura abilities.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

IDK, that kinda screws over assault terminator BA armies, and they're a thing that I really like. I know a lot of people have no memory, knowledge of the lore, or good taste, and basically say BA should never use termies, but they are in fact a thing associated with BA.

(no sirree, I'm not tired of having random non-BA players tell me "you're not playing a real BA army" all the time after they see my BA terminator force, making me bitter and annoyed at the judgmental nonsense, not at all)

 Melissia wrote:
IDK, that kinda screws over assault terminator BA armies, and they're a thing that I really like. I know a lot of people have no memory, knowledge of the lore, or good taste, and basically say BA should never use termies, but they are in fact a thing associated with BA.

(no sirree, I'm not tired of having random non-BA players tell me "you're not playing a real BA army" all the time after they see my BA terminator force, making me bitter and annoyed at the judgmental nonsense, not at all)

Oh, don't fret, I hated the abomination that was the 5th edition BA codex. The Archangels were and always have been a predominantly Terminator armored force.

I have the same bitterness when fielding my battle company and people asking me why I have tactical marines instead of running all assault squads.

Because that's not exclusively what Blood Angels are about, they're a codex adherent chapter. I like tactical marines, too, to be clear.

I like the thought of a bonus similar to what Blood Angels get in 30k as an alternative option.
When Rolling to wound in the Fight phase, Blood Angels models require 1 less to wound than normal on their to-wound roll. So if your model would wound on a 4+, it instead wounds on a 3+. If it requires a 5+ to wound, you instead wound on a 4+, etc. This of course does not apply to wounding on a 2+, and you still calculate the to wound as normal, then modify it.

In my mind this represents the Blood Angels martial prowess.and ability to strike hard and true. I think it could be a nice bonus, though I also like the advance and charge option (perhaps as a strategem).

We'll see. Hopefully it'll be something useful and fun.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

A more adventurous project I had was this:

Buy some extra jump packs. Trade for some sheathed swords. Then buy the BA tactical marines kit, and equip them with all boltguns save for the sarge who'd get the drawn power sword.

Paint them all up as death company equipped with boltgun and power sword.

Not sure if I'll go through with it, but it'd be a nice addition to my force. Then again, so would a squad of tacticals. So who knows? But certainly while htere's some nice sculpts in the DC box, the BA tactical box is such a good bargain in comparison... though I'd really be missing the thunder hammer-carrying DC sculpt.

The last two posts really hit it home for me. My version of Blood Angels, going back to the beginning of my hobby time, was strong tactical squads backed by fearsome hand-to-hand in the form of DC and characters. I love tacs, and definitely love termies. That being said, my first project of 8th has been getting some assault marines painted. Next up will be some more tacticals. I want to have a strong anvil for my hammer...

Terminators are just fodder for overcharge plasma now.

Yes yes yes, we get it, you hate everything martel.

brother_b wrote:
The last two posts really hit it home for me. My version of Blood Angels, going back to the beginning of my hobby time, was strong tactical squads backed by fearsome hand-to-hand in the form of DC and characters. I love tacs, and definitely love termies. That being said, my first project of 8th has been getting some assault marines painted. Next up will be some more tacticals. I want to have a strong anvil for my hammer...

It's a good choice. Tacticals doing a rapid fire + charge are deceptively powerful for their points, and being able to ObSec is going to be important once those rules circulate through the meta.

I dont like termis either. They are slow, very expensive, their ranged attack capabilities are poor, they are ok in melee, but they first need to get there. Which means they also need transportation. I can do almost the same damage they can do in melee with plasmaguns, from a distance, and without a transport.

They... don't necessarily need a transport-- certainly they need it less than a five-man combiplasma sternguard squad, which pretty much demands a razorback or rhino in order to use it properly since the loss of cheap drop pods. If you don't give htem that, they'll get pounded by ranged fire on the way to being able to hit anything and thus take losses or even lose the entire squad before they do damage; if you do, they're just as expensive as terminators anyway.

Actually, I think a squad of tactical termies shooting and then assaulting will almost always do more damage to a vehicle than the combiplasma squad. I'll have to mathhammer it sometime.

Termis are mostly melee units. You can teleport them on the battlefield, but then you need to make that 9" charge. If you fail one assault cannon and four stormbolters wont do much damage. Assault termis will do 0 damage when they dont make the 9" charge. Thats why they need a transport, to get them closer, to make the charge easier. 220 or 260 pts is to much for a unit which heavily depends on getting into CC, its much harder without a transport. Maybe it will be easier to make the charge when the BA codex comes out, maybe not.

For 303 pts i can get 5 company vets with JP, combiplasma and stormshield, plus a captain with combiplasma to reroll 1s to avoid supercharge blowups. No need for a transport. No need to make a 9" charge, 12" movement, the ability to fallback from CC and still shoot. At 12" the vets plus captain can do 24 damage, assault termis can do 33, if they make it into CC. If not its 0. Normal termis will do less than 24 damage when shooting, and 0 when they fail the charge.

p5freak wrote:
Termis are mostly melee units.

Especially when given a heavy weapons trooper, Tactical Termies are something like 40% shooting 60% melee. If you don't use that 40%, you're not really using their stats very well.

As for your 303 points... well, yeah. If you spend a full 111 points more, you'll definitely get more. Even with an assault cannon, though, tactical termies are only 211 points, substantially less than you spent.

For what you spent, the tactical terminator squad would be eight-strong, or seven with an assault cannon and a chainfist.

You also forget the fact that assault termi are insaleny tought against most weapons but plasma spam. Even 1 or 2 left is a pain in the ass. While after the alpha yours vets will be killed by mere saturation of bolters and represent nothing on the board.

Both units have their use, i'm more dubious for the regular termis without good ++ save vs plasma.