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The problem of making the charge still remains. Yes we can reroll now or use 3D6 with stratagems, but that's only for one or two units.

That's a matter of you, the player, positioning your units right pre-charge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Do you see a primarily melee build being viable?

Far more than before, at least. Making the charge is easier than before, and the damage you do on the charge is much, MUCH higher than before. Your characters have better versatility, and your stratagems and librarian powers allow for some superb alpha strikes.

Oh, and you can have a flying death company librarian dreadnought. So you have that going for you.

Visions of sanguinius is only for capt, lieutenants or chaplains.. so no flying DC librarian dreads :( Would have been cool though.

It seems that for some stupid reason sanguinary priests can't have jump packs or any weapon upgrades. Mine is built with magnets for arm and jump pack option.. Don't really want to use the index version.

Does anyone happen to know if our company veterans have still access to jump pack?

Codex feels promising so far, although CP's will burn fast.. Veritas vitae feels an auto-include.

p5freak wrote:
The problem of making the charge still remains. Yes we can reroll now or use 3D6 with stratagems, but that's only for one or two units.

Yes, but we are in a far better spot than we are currently. Currently, your only hope is DC along with Lemartes. Now we can still do the DC with Lemartes, and maybe a lucky charge but also Sang guard, which got 8 points per model cheaper!!, or VV using the 3D6 strategem, or use the DC pre game move to get a first turn charge, then bring another squad with Lemartes in via DS, another squad, either Sang guard or VV with the 3D6, and a Libby dread with wings and the quickening on top of all that. i mean, if you could pull off 3 or 4 alpha strike charges, we're good to go. Back all that up with maybe some of the cheaper flyers we have access too from the space marine book or the cheaper AC/LC preds or tri-las preds for fire support and I think we might have something.

Some of our psychic powers, and relics can really help with all of this. i think we got 3 good psychic powers, and 3 good relics.

I'm more upbeat that I was before, i will say that for sure. I really wish Decent of angels was an ability of JP models rather than a strategem, but I guess i'll take what i can get.

Xirax wrote:
It seems that for some stupid reason sanguinary priests can't have jump packs or any weapon upgrades. Mine is built with magnets for arm and jump pack option.. Don't really want to use the index version.

No reason you should feel awkward about using the index stuff. It's fully legal and supported by GW.

Xirax wrote:
Codex feels promising so far, although CP's will burn fast.. Veritas vitae feels an auto-include.

Agreed about burning though CPs, disagree about Veritas Vitae. How many CPs will our lists have on average? 5 or 6 maybe? so if your using some 2 CP strats, say 2, and 2 1 CP strats, on average, your going to get back exactly 1 CP. Do you think that's worth a relic spot? I don't. there's 3 others that are far better and will do more over the course of a game than a single CP.

NVM, theres no reason to be as snarky. I apologize.

So Shield of Sanguinius Psypower is 5++. That's a bit of a blow.

Seems very CP hungry. Some amazing tools, but can only really pull them off once. For example, relocating the Jump DC and rolling 3D6 charge is 4CP. If you're already using CP to get them in the first time, on top of an extra relic, or boosting your warlord...

For that reason I can see the Veritas Vitae being the default for any army that's planning to use a big Jump DC or Sang Guard or VV.

I'm just wondering the best way to pull off a double Battalion.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:


Seems very CP hungry. Some amazing tools, but can only really pull them off once. For example, relocating the Jump DC and rolling 3D6 charge is 4CP. If you're already using CP to get them in the first time, on top of an extra relic, or boosting your warlord...

For that reason I can see the Veritas Vitae being the default for any army that's planning to use a big Jump DC or Sang Guard or VV.

Again, this doesn't make sense to me. I hear all the you tubers saying it, after you think about it it doesn't make sense. If you using lot's of 2 or eve some 3 CP strats, your not going to get hardly any CPs back. It's only when you use a strategem, and regardless of the CP cost, you roll a single D6, and get a single CP back on a 5 or 6. I think your scenario is wrong though, relocating JP squad is 1 point, and 3D6 harge is 2 CP so 3, but even still, that scenario you've spent 3 CPs and only have a %66 chance to get 1 back. That just seems super inefficient to me, for an army that has expensive units, and expensive strategems. Too many other good relics to choose form

 Melissia wrote:
That's a matter of you, the player, positioning your units right pre-charge.

Right, sure, please tell me how i position my units right pre-charge when i deepstrike with JP. I havent seen anything about the rumored +1 to charge rolls. Or did i miss that ?

It's a matter of getting any CPs back. They're one of the most scarce resources available with very limited ways to obtain more. When your army is hungry on CPs, just having an extra one, maybe two is excellent. If you're going all in on Jump pack assaulters, why wouldn't you take it as default.

Sure, it's more questionable to grab as a second and definitely third, but otherwise there's really nothing better. The banner is a great relic, but is skornegistic with Death Company.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:


It's a matter of getting any CPs back. They're one of the most scarce resources available with very limited ways to obtain more. When your army is hungry on CPs, just having an extra one, maybe two is excellent. If you're going all in on Jump pack assaulters, why wouldn't you take it as default.

Mainly because I'd rather have half the rest of them because I think they are just better and will do more work. The FnP banner, the non-unweildy Thunder hammer, the no over watch, re-roll charge JP i think are all much better and will be more beneficial than possibly getting back 1 or 2 CPs.

Getting CPs is not that hard. You can include an AM detachment with an officer who uses the kurovs aquila relic. Whenever your opponent spends a CP you can roll a dice, on a 5+ you gain 1 CP. Add that to our 5+ roll to get 1 CP back and your chances of getting CPs went up.

p5freak wrote:
Getting CPs is not that hard. You can include an AM detachment with an officer who uses the kurovs aquila relic. Whenever your opponent spends a CP you can roll a dice, on a 5+ you gain 1 CP. Add that to our 5+ roll to get 1 CP back and your chances of getting CPs went up.

Correct, but now your talking about allying in other armies. I'm playing Blood Angels, not any other shenanigans to take advantage of this particular relic. In that particular build I would agree it has more value, but in a standard Blood Angels build, certainly a JP heavy one, your not getting a bunch of CPs to start with. In my head I can't make the math tell me it's worth taking over a few of the other relics, I think they have much more value to the army.

If you have 6 CPs you get 2 back, at a roll of 5+.

I don't have the codex yet. Still processing my chapter approved book.

Regardless of the specifics, ask, "Can this codex deal with screens?". If the answer is "better than before", it's an improvement. If the answer is "No, we still autolose to screens", then the codex doesn't do jack.

What I am planning on doing is taking the Veritas Vitae and a company commander with the aquila and make said commander my warlord with the grand strategist warlord trait. That way every time I use a stratagm I get two 5+ dice to gain a command point on top of the grand strategist warlord trait applying to each individual CP. Throw in Kurov's aquila and thats another 5+ to steal a command point every time the other guys uses one. Thats some healthy extra CP.

I agree with you boba. The fact that the codex leans more towards stratagems that cost multiple CP makes the relic less than optimal unless you are bringing like 8+ CP. If you read the stratagem it says that you only get one(cp) back PER stratagem not CP used.

Also this codex brings about a significant increase in mobility, especially, flying mobility. This means you can bypass screens with the majority of your hammers and apply them directly to the opponent's forehead. Also of note, with the +1 to wound on the charge screens will melt like hot butter to chainsword wielders, specific mention goes to DC.

I had an idea, Death Company Chaplain Dreadnought, but keywords don't work out.

Honestly, looking at our Strategems and the AM Strategems, I think GW is just rolling d3 and giving Strategems the number that comes up.

I really hope Winters SEO is wrong and Dante gives some bonus CP.

p5freak wrote:
If you have 6 CPs you get 2 back, at a roll of 5+.

this is only true if you use 1 CP stratagems all game. If you use 2 3 CP strats you don’t even average 1. The book is looking good but I find it pretty funny that our combo of CP regen and deny the witch relic/trait makes us look like discount brand ultramarines. Also disappointed by the cost on Baal Preds. Already seems like we need a FAQ on Lucifer engines. Also funny is how god awful that relic sword is.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:


I'm just wondering the best way to pull off a double Battalion.

I have been running a double Battalion Detachment army for a while now to prepare for our Codex. It has performed admirably well with Assault Marines over Vanguard Vets, but with the points cuts I am now taking Vanguard Vets and dropped a Missile Devastator Squad and replaced it with two Twin-Las/CCW Dreads.

The Relics and Strategems available to us, along with the Red Thirst put my army in the best place it has ever been since 8th dropped. Went down to the store today to pre-order my book, and ended up talking for 3 hours with the other players about tactics and the overall feel of the book. I am very confident in my army's ability to hold it's own on the table now.

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:



For that reason I can see the Veritas Vitae being the default for any army that's planning to use a big Jump DC or Sang Guard or VV.

I honestly have no plan to use this Relic. The Jump Pack, and Relic that gives a character the ability to deny Psyker powers will be the winner for my army. I only have a single Librarian with Jump Pack, so always felt under equipped to combat Psykers.

The Dread Librarian looks amazing, but I am still not sold. I would rather Unleash Rage go into a max unit of Veterans/Sanguinary Guard over the Dread himself, and he seems to be slow UNLESS you get Wings of Sanguinius off. I would rather use him to support my units and occasionally use Wings to go in and assassinate something. If the Libby Dread is buffing only himself than the units around him will start to fall apart pretty quickly, leaving him stranded. I like the idea of my Librarian acting as an assassin that can threaten 24+ inches between normal movement and Wings, it will force opponents to think about where they place their weaker buff characters, and potentially make them stay back further and not be boosting their front lines while I apply buffs to my assault units.

Edit. I kept thinking the ability to deny a Psyker power was a Relic, nope... a Warlord Trait. Even better!

As awesome as a Libby Dread is, Wings and the +d3 attacks power screams Termy Libby instead to me. Deepstrike into cover near where you want to be, Wings past screens, and hit any support/ranged that isn't closely screened easily. With axe and shield, that's 3+d3 swings wounding T4 or less on 2s. With the 3++ from the shield, he'll be hard to remove without something dedicated. Worst case, solid distraction 'fex or it forces your opponent to clump their screen tighter.

JDarion wrote:
As awesome as a Libby Dread is, Wings and the +d3 attacks power screams Termy Libby instead to me. Deepstrike into cover near where you want to be, Wings past screens, and hit any support/ranged that isn't closely screened easily. With axe and shield, that's 3+d3 swings wounding T4 or less on 2s. With the 3++ from the shield, he'll be hard to remove without something dedicated. Worst case, solid distraction 'fex or it forces your opponent to clump their screen tighter.

I suppose but there is a slight problem with that. I don't believe Terminator libbys can take storm shields anymore. I know they can't in the space marine book, which means you have to go back and use the index and they are over costed by 25 points in that book. 145 points instead of the new 120 points so that kind of sucks...

bobafett012 wrote:

JDarion wrote:
As awesome as a Libby Dread is, Wings and the +d3 attacks power screams Termy Libby instead to me. Deepstrike into cover near where you want to be, Wings past screens, and hit any support/ranged that isn't closely screened easily. With axe and shield, that's 3+d3 swings wounding T4 or less on 2s. With the 3++ from the shield, he'll be hard to remove without something dedicated. Worst case, solid distraction 'fex or it forces your opponent to clump their screen tighter.

I suppose but there is a slight problem with that. I don't believe Terminator libbys can take storm shields anymore. I know they can't in the space marine book, which means you have to go back and use the index and they are over costed by 25 points in that book. 145 points instead of the new 120 points so that kind of sucks...

That is kind of a bummer. Don't we also have a Strategem that gives +D3 attacks to a character as well? The amount of hate my Jump Pack Librarian is going to be throwing out when we get our Codex makes me happy.

What are people's thoughts on giving Intercessor Squads Auto Bolt Rifles and a Chainsword on the Sergeant? It seems like they would do pretty well as they can keep on the move and charge if needed.

With the Red Thirst, I am considering taking Power Swords instead of Power Fists on my Assault Squads.

Also, with Lucifer Pattern Engines, since you have to use it before advancing, but it isn't predicated on you actually Advancing, could you just use LPE and not advance, and get the extra movement?

Lastly, I definitely am taking a Librarian. Casting Wings and Quickening on a JP Libby is a good way to ruin someone's day.

Power swords and power axes doubled in point costs in CA, which is stupid. A power sword is now 8 pts., and it does S+0, AP-3 and D1. Compare that to a powerfist for 12 pts.which is S*2, AP-3 and D3 roll for damage.

p5freak wrote:
Power swords and power axes doubled in point costs in CA, which is stupid. A power sword is now 8 pts., and it does S+0, AP-3 and D1. Compare that to a powerfist for 12 pts.which is S*2, AP-3 and D3 roll for damage.

Look again, Power Swords and Power Axes remain the same. Force Swords and Force Axes went down in points!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

p5freak wrote:
Power swords and power axes doubled in point costs in CA, which is stupid. A power sword is now 8 pts., and it does S+0, AP-3 and D1. Compare that to a powerfist for 12 pts.which is S*2, AP-3 and D3 roll for damage.

Look again, Power Swords and Power Axes remain the same. Force Swords and Force Axes went down in points!

You're right

p5freak wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

p5freak wrote:
Power swords and power axes doubled in point costs in CA, which is stupid. A power sword is now 8 pts., and it does S+0, AP-3 and D1. Compare that to a powerfist for 12 pts.which is S*2, AP-3 and D3 roll for damage.

Look again, Power Swords and Power Axes remain the same. Force Swords and Force Axes went down in points!

You're right

Red Thirst has drastically increases my desire to run Power Swords on my Assault Squad Sergeants. Power Fists took a major hit.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

p5freak wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

p5freak wrote:
Power swords and power axes doubled in point costs in CA, which is stupid. A power sword is now 8 pts., and it does S+0, AP-3 and D1. Compare that to a powerfist for 12 pts.which is S*2, AP-3 and D3 roll for damage.

Look again, Power Swords and Power Axes remain the same. Force Swords and Force Axes went down in points!

You're right

Red Thirst has drastically increases my desire to run Power Swords on my Assault Squad Sergeants. Power Fists took a major hit.

Oh? I must have missed that, how much did Force Swords go down? And, I guess the Lightning Claw on my Assault Squad Sergeants might not be as terrible as it has been pre-Codex.

Edit. Nevermind, I found it.

Vanguard veterans with a pair of lightning claws and the sergent with the relic sword and plasma pistols look juicy enough for me now. I'm disappointed that DC still have that rubbish 6+ FnP...

Spado wrote:
Vanguard veterans with a pair of lightning claws and the sergent with the relic sword and plasma pistols look juicy enough for me now. I'm disappointed that DC still have that rubbish 6+ FnP...

I for one am glad my tactical squad sergeant has a lightning claw & Combiflamer combo.

DC have the 6+ save, and I do wish it was 5+, but it is what it is. It's not great vs multiple damage weapons, but does at least give you a shot at saving against mortal wounds or the odd single wound that makes it through.

Can't wait to get my hands on the codex next weekend. Really looking forward to it.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-