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on Wings of Fire: 1 CP, use this stratagem at the beginning of your movement phase before moving a Blood Angels Jump Pack unit. Remove the unit from the battlefield and then set it up at the end of the phase, anywhere on the battlefield more than 9″ from any enemy models.

Yep at the end of the phase.

broxus wrote:
on Wings of Fire: 1 CP, use this stratagem at the beginning of your movement phase before moving a Blood Angels Jump Pack unit. Remove the unit from the battlefield and then set it up at the end of the phase, anywhere on the battlefield more than 9″ from any enemy models.

Yep at the end of the phase.

One thing it does allow is blasting off out of combat, landing on the opposite side of the field, and laying down a bunch of shooting. I am going to try it with some Inceptors with Plasma Exterminators.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

broxus wrote:
on Wings of Fire: 1 CP, use this stratagem at the beginning of your movement phase before moving a Blood Angels Jump Pack unit. Remove the unit from the battlefield and then set it up at the end of the phase, anywhere on the battlefield more than 9″ from any enemy models.

Yep at the end of the phase.

One thing it does allow is blasting off out of combat, landing on the opposite side of the field, and laying down a bunch of shooting. I am going to try it with some Inceptors with Plasma Exterminators.

It also seems handy for teleporting an assault unit back to your lines to take care of enemy units, and be healed by Sang Priests/Apothecaries before charging back into the fray.

Without having the Strategems in front of me to carefully read, how does it interract with the Strategem that allows 3D6 charge range after arriving from Reserves. Because, wouldn't On Wings of Fire technicaly place them back into Reserves based off the Reserves wording? It probably doesn't work that way, but it sure as heck would be sweet.

It does work that way.

I don't see them in the last few changes, but here are the major points changes you blood angels folks will be seeing (from the MWG video review)

Gabriel Seth - bunch of buffs including Chapter Master, extra AP, extra hit on 6 in the Fight Phase

No more sang Priests with jump pack/bike in codex. Still in index. Ditto for tons of other index-only options.

lib dread 20pts cheaper

termie lib down 25pts

Chaplain termie down 15pts

Astorath's weapon +1s

Tycho the Lost new "dead mans hand" (Melee S:user AP-2 Dd3)

Cpt Tycho also gains dead man's hand

termie captain down 15pts

16 new units (lieutenants, primaris stuff, planes, anti air vehicles, etc)

techmarine down 13pts

Tactical squad - sergeant may now take a Melta Bomb

Sanguinary Guard down 2 points

Chapter Banner nerfed - was immune to morale, now +1LD. Bonus to wound rolls stays the same.

Sanguinary Novitiate new unit (identical to basic apothecary with Bloody Blood blood name)

DC Dread down 38pts

Terminator Ancient new unit

Company Champion down 16pts

Terminator assault squad down 5ppm

Furioso Dread down 52 points

Blood Talons now S+4 -2AP 3Damage, reroll failed hit and wound rolls for this weapon

Assault marines now get melta and plasma guns

So, looks like we're talking about dreadnoughts again...yowza....

Ok,
So I've scheduled two small games for next sunday. 1250 points armies to test chapter approved new missions. I'm testing my DG list and for the second game I'll try out the new BA. I've got tons of models, but for such a small match I'm having second thought what new combo I could easily pull.

What do you guys feel does the new codex seem that have competitive stuff for smaller games? Fast dreads.. If I burn all the CP at T1 I could try to get two charges in..

I was doing some mathammer and found power axes a bit disappointing atleast with my DC. Tried bunch up setups 15man blob with different weapons, with sang priest, with unleashed rage, against T4-8. power swords better ap seemed better than +1 to wound against T4 in the big picture. Also I'm trying to understand the complaints about BA and power fists.. Similar thoughts?

Anyways, if you want to know more about my next sunday's match and help me a bit, check the spoiler. Otherwise, let's end it here.

Complaint is power first doesn't grant you 2+ wound rolls vs inf because you already have it most of time but it's a hoax.

You wound tank on 2+ and LR on 3+

the_scotsman wrote:
I don't see them in the last few changes, but here are the major points changes you blood angels folks will be seeing (from the MWG video

Assault marines now get melta and plasma guns

I wonder what this means exactly. 1 per five? 2?

Martel732 wrote:
It does work that way.

Huh. Than that is interesting Martel. Getting off 2 long bomb 3D6 charges off with the same unit in a single game seems like it could be very good (if thr unit survives after the first one).

Rivener wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I don't see them in the last few changes, but here are the major points changes you blood angels folks will be seeing (from the MWG video

Assault marines now get melta and plasma guns

I wonder what this means exactly. 1 per five? 2?

Dunno. I assume it works like their normal flamers, so 2 in the unit? I just wrote down things as the MWG guy said them, and I think with this he just said "And assault squads get meltas and plasmas again, which is nice as they always have had them".

It just sucks down a ton of cps.

the_scotsman wrote:
I don't see them in the last few changes, but here are the major points changes you blood angels folks will be seeing (from the MWG video review)

Gabriel Seth - bunch of buffs including Chapter Master, extra AP, extra hit on 6 in the Fight Phase

No more sang Priests with jump pack/bike in codex. Still in index. Ditto for tons of other index-only options.

lib dread 20pts cheaper

termie lib down 25pts

Chaplain termie down 15pts

Astorath's weapon +1s

Tycho the Lost new "dead mans hand" (Melee S:user AP-2 Dd3)

Cpt Tycho also gains dead man's hand

termie captain down 15pts

16 new units (lieutenants, primaris stuff, planes, anti air vehicles, etc)

techmarine down 13pts

Tactical squad - sergeant may now take a Melta Bomb

Sanguinary Guard down 2 points

Chapter Banner nerfed - was immune to morale, now +1LD. Bonus to wound rolls stays the same.

Sanguinary Novitiate new unit (identical to basic apothecary with Bloody Blood blood name)

DC Dread down 38pts

Terminator Ancient new unit

Company Champion down 16pts

Terminator assault squad down 5ppm

Furioso Dread down 52 points

Blood Talons now S+4 -2AP 3Damage, reroll failed hit and wound rolls for this weapon

Assault marines now get melta and plasma guns

So, looks like we're talking about dreadnoughts again...yowza....

Assault Marines could always take Melta and Plasma...

Gutted about Sanguinary Priest and lack of JP/Bike. I wanted a JP Assault Army and Sanguinary Priests were the way to buff that up to wounding on 3+ (2+ now on charge turn).

Optimistic though. Not sure what to make of Sanguinary Guard being 2pts cheaper...hopefully Death Company are Fearless this time around lol.

 Frozocrone wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I don't see them in the last few changes, but here are the major points changes you blood angels folks will be seeing (from the MWG video review)

Gabriel Seth - bunch of buffs including Chapter Master, extra AP, extra hit on 6 in the Fight Phase

No more sang Priests with jump pack/bike in codex. Still in index. Ditto for tons of other index-only options.

lib dread 20pts cheaper

termie lib down 25pts

Chaplain termie down 15pts

Astorath's weapon +1s

Tycho the Lost new "dead mans hand" (Melee S:user AP-2 Dd3)

Cpt Tycho also gains dead man's hand

termie captain down 15pts

16 new units (lieutenants, primaris stuff, planes, anti air vehicles, etc)

techmarine down 13pts

Tactical squad - sergeant may now take a Melta Bomb

Sanguinary Guard down 2 points

Chapter Banner nerfed - was immune to morale, now +1LD. Bonus to wound rolls stays the same.

Sanguinary Novitiate new unit (identical to basic apothecary with Bloody Blood blood name)

DC Dread down 38pts

Terminator Ancient new unit

Company Champion down 16pts

Terminator assault squad down 5ppm

Furioso Dread down 52 points

Blood Talons now S+4 -2AP 3Damage, reroll failed hit and wound rolls for this weapon

Assault marines now get melta and plasma guns

So, looks like we're talking about dreadnoughts again...yowza....

Assault Marines could always take Melta and Plasma...

Gutted about Sanguinary Priest and lack of JP/Bike. I wanted a JP Assault Army and Sanguinary Priests were the way to buff that up to wounding on 3+ (2+ now on charge turn).

Optimistic though. Not sure what to make of Sanguinary Guard being 2pts cheaper...hopefully Death Company are Fearless this time around lol.

He didn't mention that they were, and he was mentioning rule changes that he found from Index to Codex. I'm sure there are some FAQ level changes - maybe the meltas and plasmas were one of those. He did say he hadn't checked the faqs, just the two books he had.

I mean, with the JP/bike, you can just use the index values for them. They didn't go anywhere - its the same as every single other faction losing the "no models no points" options. I didn't even bother to list out all the things that changed from that, as to me I don't consider them actually lost, just not in the codex.

IMO, Death Company are likely to overshadow standard assault squads and sanguinaries given these changes. with the ability to bring a character along in the Black Rage Party, if you're going to run classic Blood Angel Jump Pack Boogaloo, you might as well bring Death Company and Lemartes along with a death companified captain to grant them all charge re-rolls. Encarmine swords do work pretty well with Red Thirst letting Sanguines chop up tanks fairly easily, but...not 33ppm well, lol. Death Company with Lemartes for the win.

What do you think of captain with jumpack, pair of LC + artisan of war. Then you can give him DC keyword if you want and some tasty relic like the special jetpack.

It's easily as good or better than dante vs most of the stuff. And for twice cheaper.

And for vehicle/big stuff the same version with TH and inferno pistol or SS.

Dante still have better armor and better buffs. But it's a good plan. Options are good.

Most competitive lists just see Dante as "dude with the chapter master buff that you can have keep up with your fast stuff." It's why you pretty frequently see the old standard SM tourney lists run as "Blood Angels" (using only Dante as the sole BA specific unit then just assbacks and stormravens). Guilliman's to wound buff wasn't worth his inability to keep up with the stormravens to them.

If you are taking Dante, you're running gunline-angels, IMO. Which, honestly, seems pretty bad compared to gunline-DA with Azrael, so I don't know why you'd do that.

I'm guessing the standard "takin my BA to a tournament" type list is going to involve Death Company, Lemartes, a libbydread, and a fun-sized 400pt IG battalion to bring 3 more CPs to the table for the Death Company to snack on.

Will it work? Ehhhh, maybe. Recent tournament I went to basically everything was coming up Genestealers and Eldar, not a screened gunline in sight, and DC do have the option to forgo deep strike in favor of the 1cp "sprint up the board" stratagem - that might actually be half decent in the matchup against the dark reaper forwarned boogeyman list. Similar to how Genestealers are good against that list - you take the Swarmlord and a Trygon and depending whether the opponent has forewarned you either use Swarmy to get the stealers up the board or if they don't you bring them in with the Trygon.

As someone looking to get into Blood Angels (want to match my Orks for Armageddon fluff) is there anything worth getting now model-wise or is it just better to wait? The start collecting box seems kind of underwhelming

PandatheWarrior wrote:
What do you think of captain with jumpack, pair of LC + artisan of war. Then you can give him DC keyword if you want and some tasty relic like the special jetpack.

Nothing. Why waste his BS 2+ ? Give him JP, inferno pistol and the thunderhammer without -1 to hit. He can shoot the pistol in the shooting phase, charge, fight with the hammer, shoot the pistol next turn, or disengage from CC if needed and still shoot. 1 CP for black rage, and gift of foresight for 5+++.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dendarien wrote:
As someone looking to get into Blood Angels (want to match my Orks for Armageddon fluff) is there anything worth getting now model-wise or is it just better to wait? The start collecting box seems kind of underwhelming

Furioso librarian, DC dreads, DC, veterans with JP, captains and lieutenants.

the_scotsman wrote:
Most competitive lists just see Dante as "dude with the chapter master buff that you can have keep up with your fast stuff." It's why you pretty frequently see the old standard SM tourney lists run as "Blood Angels" (using only Dante as the sole BA specific unit then just assbacks and stormravens). Guilliman's to wound buff wasn't worth his inability to keep up with the stormravens to them.

If you are taking Dante, you're running gunline-angels, IMO. Which, honestly, seems pretty bad compared to gunline-DA with Azrael, so I don't know why you'd do that.

I'm guessing the standard "takin my BA to a tournament" type list is going to involve Death Company, Lemartes, a libbydread, and a fun-sized 400pt IG battalion to bring 3 more CPs to the table for the Death Company to snack on.

Will it work? Ehhhh, maybe. Recent tournament I went to basically everything was coming up Genestealers and Eldar, not a screened gunline in sight, and DC do have the option to forgo deep strike in favor of the 1cp "sprint up the board" stratagem - that might actually be half decent in the matchup against the dark reaper forwarned boogeyman list. Similar to how Genestealers are good against that list - you take the Swarmlord and a Trygon and depending whether the opponent has forewarned you either use Swarmy to get the stealers up the board or if they don't you bring them in with the Trygon.

I don't know. Deep strike him in with terminators and that alone saves you 2 CP. And he is permanent. And a crazy beat stick. I like him. Maybe I'm sentimental. He also can save your plasma dudes vs -1 to hit.

Martel732 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Most competitive lists just see Dante as "dude with the chapter master buff that you can have keep up with your fast stuff." It's why you pretty frequently see the old standard SM tourney lists run as "Blood Angels" (using only Dante as the sole BA specific unit then just assbacks and stormravens). Guilliman's to wound buff wasn't worth his inability to keep up with the stormravens to them.

If you are taking Dante, you're running gunline-angels, IMO. Which, honestly, seems pretty bad compared to gunline-DA with Azrael, so I don't know why you'd do that.

I'm guessing the standard "takin my BA to a tournament" type list is going to involve Death Company, Lemartes, a libbydread, and a fun-sized 400pt IG battalion to bring 3 more CPs to the table for the Death Company to snack on.

Will it work? Ehhhh, maybe. Recent tournament I went to basically everything was coming up Genestealers and Eldar, not a screened gunline in sight, and DC do have the option to forgo deep strike in favor of the 1cp "sprint up the board" stratagem - that might actually be half decent in the matchup against the dark reaper forwarned boogeyman list. Similar to how Genestealers are good against that list - you take the Swarmlord and a Trygon and depending whether the opponent has forewarned you either use Swarmy to get the stealers up the board or if they don't you bring them in with the Trygon.

I don't know. Deep strike him in with terminators and that alone saves you 2 CP. And he is permanent. And a crazy beat stick. I like him. Maybe I'm sentimental. He also can save your plasma dudes vs -1 to hit.

Yeah, he's definitely useful if you're taking a bunch of shooty elements, but if you're all assault, Chaplains/Lemartes give the same buff for half the price. Dante's certainly not terrible (we know he's at least good enough to warrant a spot in a few top table tournament lists at least) but he becomes progressively less useful the more you lean yourself towards the classic Blood Angel playstyle of heavy assault+flame weapons.

But yeah, pair him with Hellblasters, Intercessors, Flyers, Predators, Devastators, what have you and he's definitely a solid choice. Provides your standard Chapter Master mix of value shooting buff and counter-assault goodness in a package that has double the move value of most other chapter master equivalents. Plus with the "pick him up and drop him 9" away" stratagem, in a pinch he really can be wherever you need him.

On the subject of Intercessors and new BAngels, are you feeling like the Tallboyz may be the new go-to troop now that they're 18ppm? My thoughts are between them and knifescouts, given that neither require transport to be effective, but the intercessors would seem to provide a utility that your typical BA assault list isn't going to have - backfield objective holding and a bit of ranged anti-chaff fire.

18 ppm is very tempting, I must admit.

Yea, but I would rather lose a 13 point per model Marine vs an 18 point per model Marine to the Plasma spam that seems to dominate my local play group.

Put scouts in front of your intercessors.

Martel732 wrote:
Put scouts in front of your intercessors.

Tyranids, Guard, Orks, Death Guard and Eldar care not for Scouts. They would die along with the Intercessors. And now your essentially paying 29 points for an Intercessor if they need Scouts in front of them to survive. I would rather take budget Plasma Tac Squads in Rhinos. The Rhinos themselves are a fast credible threat to charge units with, block line of sight to your Tac Squads while they Plasma something to death, and provide decent fire support with 2 Storm Bolters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If Intercessor Marines had a cheap transport to go with them I would consider using them. But right now they are just asking to be shot. They are also just so slow now.

The new Strategem that allows us to rocket a vehicle forwards will be great for sending a 5 man Tac Squad in Rhino off to claim an objective, or push a weak part of the enemy's army.

The only Primaris I will honestly consider (still) is Hellblasters in place of Devastator Squads. All of our other options fill the roles we need them for in our army better,

Assault units? Vanguard Vets, Death Company and Sanguinary Guard... what Primaris option comes close to these with the same utility and speed and reliability the new Strategems give them when getting into close combat?

Troops. Sure Intercessors can work, they get decent range and have AP -1 on their guns, but you lose far more per model against the plethora of 2 damage weapons in the current state of the game. Once your vehicles die within the first 1-2 turns, it becomes far less beneficial to pop a 1 wound Tac Marine with a Lascannon than an Intercessor.

The scouts are about board control so they can't get scion alpha struck. These units are also granting CP.

the_scotsman wrote:
and DC do have the option to forgo deep strike in favor of the 1cp "sprint up the board" stratagem

I thought it was 2 command points for forlorn fury? At least that's what they guy said on the review I watched.

bobafett012 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
and DC do have the option to forgo deep strike in favor of the 1cp "sprint up the board" stratagem

I thought it was 2 command points for forlorn fury? At least that's what they guy said on the review I watched.

It is 2Cp according to the FLG review.

The Striking Scorpion review while lackluster has a page by page view of all the important bits. I just took a couple screen shots for now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have been thinking about how to equip a cheap buff aura Captain, and Storm Bolter/Chainsword actually seems like it might be useful for him. Puts out a decent amount of shots to plug away at hordes, and a Chainsword with the +D3 attacks Strategem along with The Red Thirst seems to be a pretty decent last ditch resort for 76 points. I have been running mine with a Power Sword since 8th began, but if he is really ever in melee he is dead, and if I am going to be using a 1 Damage weapon, I would rather just get it for free anyways.

I really don't see my Captains being my melee threat/assassin anymore, Librians of all shapes and sizes seem to be the best option for that unless your running a Special Character.

For the DC stratagem, am I wrong in thinking that a lieutenant is a better option over a captain (assuming I've got Lemartes along for the ride)?

Lieutenanta have one less attacks, no inv. Save? Worse BS? Put cheaper, yeah.

My problem is that if I'll plan to run my capt always as DC, should I paint it black or with just black shoulder pad with red X... Hmm.