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On any other weapon instead of overcharged plasma. Or on targets with a negative to hit modifier.

With dreadnoughts coming down a fair bit in points do you guys plan on using any? The redemptor went down 45 or some odd points and looks alright at around 161 for his dakka bot loadout all the while having some decent melee ability and wounds to take a few hits.

Venerable dreads are 140 for ML Twinlas anti tank and that's pretty good I think. The 6+++, and 2+WS/BS is worth the 20 points over a normal dread IMO. 152 for a more versatile powerfist/SB Twinlas loadout does not seem terrible either, but kind of steps on the toes of the redemptor a bit who has 5 more wounds, is faster and spits out more shots, but does degrade.

If redemptor had a levithian load out with two onslaught cannons they would be the best unit in the space marine codex.

I plan on using a lot of dreads. 3 venerable with TL/las + ML are probably going to be the starting point for a lot of my lists. Plus 3 units of plasma devs. Redemptor dread is now efficient enough to play. I'll probably bring 1 just to be a distraction carnifex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Asherian Command wrote:
If redemptor had a levithian load out with two onslaught cannons they would be the best unit in the space marine codex.

Well it would also get a point drop with that build. So yeah - it would be a lot better. Heck if it could take double plasma it would be even better. Really I don't understand why the melle fists costs so much - They should cost a lot less than the weapons we replace them with because nobody really wants them. At least on the Redemptor you still get a decent side weapon which basically gives you 1.5 Onslaught cannons.

 Asherian Command wrote:
If redemptor had a levithian load out with two onslaught cannons they would be the best unit in the space marine codex.

Nonsense. It already carries 1.5.

Trade in a legitimate melee threat for 6 more damage 1 shots at range? No, thank you.

I wish the Macro Plasma Incinerator was a better weapon. Having that on one arm and the Onslaught Cannon on the other seems like a good dual-function use.

I am just a little irritated that the missile launcher became optional after I glued mine in place.

In the few games I've played the macro incinerator has put in work. Was able to mulch plague marines in one game and did considerable damage to a land raider in another. If I had brought the onslaught instead the lack of high strength and damage shooting would have hurt.

My problems with the macro is that it is heavy an causes the redemptor to hurt it self on 1s and 2s when it moves and because it is a melee threat as well the redemptor will likely be moving. To get proper value out of the macro you will likely be overcharging it thus the problem above. Furthermore its a flat d6 with no way to modify that beyond very valuable command points. It's unreliable and hurts you where as the onslaught cannon has a set number of shots. does not hurt you and has it's niche of mowing down medium-lower tier infantry.

Lemondish wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
If redemptor had a levithian load out with two onslaught cannons they would be the best unit in the space marine codex.

Nonsense. It already carries 1.5.

Trade in a legitimate melee threat for 6 more damage 1 shots at range? No, thank you.

He's right though. It would be a buff in many ways. #1 is you don't need to move anymore. #2 is you would cost significantly less. I'd take that in a heartbeat.

I think I have gotten the redemptor into CC a total of 2 times probably playing it in 15 games. The melle profile is nearly wasted on it.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
If redemptor had a levithian load out with two onslaught cannons they would be the best unit in the space marine codex.

Nonsense. It already carries 1.5.

Trade in a legitimate melee threat for 6 more damage 1 shots at range? No, thank you.

He's right though. It would be a buff in many ways. #1 is you don't need to move anymore. #2 is you would cost significantly less. I'd take that in a heartbeat.

I think I have gotten the redemptor into CC a total of 2 times probably playing it in 15 games. The melle profile is nearly wasted on it.

Then you aren't using it right. They've been MVPs for me lately - too many other, more important threats so they can't be focused, and just walked them up the board to an objective or a big, hard target. Punched a Knight to death.

Give them a chance with proper heavy armour saturation, positioning, and movement rather than just lining up your plastic toys and rolling dice on planet bowling ball.

what about land raiders??? nay or yay/?

I am looking at adding a squad of Tartaros Terminators into my Crimson Fists list instead of two Inceptor Squads. It is sacrificing a ton of shooting for some higher strength shooting. Being able to drop in and lay down 2 Plasma, 4 Autocannon (why is the Reaper Autocannon 1 damage?!), 12 Storm Bolter, and d6 Grenade Harness shots is still pretty decent. Not quite 36 Heavy Bolter shots, but they are also more survivable. Plus I save 47 pts to put toward something else. I am actually looking toward adding a Vindicare Assassin (not overly competitive, but decent for the points now) and having the points left for a Chaff Marine for my Devastators.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
With dreadnoughts coming down a fair bit in points do you guys plan on using any? The redemptor went down 45 or some odd points and looks alright at around 161 for his dakka bot loadout all the while having some decent melee ability and wounds to take a few hits.

Venerable dreads are 140 for ML Twinlas anti tank and that's pretty good I think. The 6+++, and 2+WS/BS is worth the 20 points over a normal dread IMO. 152 for a more versatile powerfist/SB Twinlas loadout does not seem terrible either, but kind of steps on the toes of the redemptor a bit who has 5 more wounds, is faster and spits out more shots, but does degrade.

The Redemptor is efficient now. It doesn't fill a role since it's got really generic firepower, but it's efficient.

novembermike wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
With dreadnoughts coming down a fair bit in points do you guys plan on using any? The redemptor went down 45 or some odd points and looks alright at around 161 for his dakka bot loadout all the while having some decent melee ability and wounds to take a few hits.

Venerable dreads are 140 for ML Twinlas anti tank and that's pretty good I think. The 6+++, and 2+WS/BS is worth the 20 points over a normal dread IMO. 152 for a more versatile powerfist/SB Twinlas loadout does not seem terrible either, but kind of steps on the toes of the redemptor a bit who has 5 more wounds, is faster and spits out more shots, but does degrade.

The Redemptor is efficient now. It doesn't fill a role since it's got really generic firepower, but it's efficient.

I think the problem of Redemptor is, if it moves, it hit on 4s, which is just "ok" fir a gun platform, if its target have a -1 to hit, it hits with Ork accurracy, which is terrible.

So with Sternguard being only slightly more expensive than tactical, I was wondering if I could get away with simply painting the pauldron trim white on my unassembled tactical marines and running them as sternguard.

Lemondish wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
If redemptor had a levithian load out with two onslaught cannons they would be the best unit in the space marine codex.

Nonsense. It already carries 1.5.

Trade in a legitimate melee threat for 6 more damage 1 shots at range? No, thank you.

Melee means nothing this edition. Its why people go full on Levi Dreads with storm cannons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
So with Sternguard being only slightly more expensive than tactical, I was wondering if I could get away with simply painting the pauldron trim white on my unassembled tactical marines and running them as sternguard.

go for it. I take intercessors as my troop choice anyway. As they are a far more effective troop choice.

Sternguards act more like the veteran tactical squads of 30k.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lemondish wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
If redemptor had a levithian load out with two onslaught cannons they would be the best unit in the space marine codex.

Nonsense. It already carries 1.5.

Trade in a legitimate melee threat for 6 more damage 1 shots at range? No, thank you.

He's right though. It would be a buff in many ways. #1 is you don't need to move anymore. #2 is you would cost significantly less. I'd take that in a heartbeat.

I think I have gotten the redemptor into CC a total of 2 times probably playing it in 15 games. The melle profile is nearly wasted on it.

Then you aren't using it right. They've been MVPs for me lately - too many other, more important threats so they can't be focused, and just walked them up the board to an objective or a big, hard target. Punched a Knight to death.

Give them a chance with proper heavy armour saturation, positioning, and movement rather than just lining up your plastic toys and rolling dice on planet bowling ball.

A heavyweight of fire outdoes all melee combat this edition. Space marines are a gunline army this edition. I will not take vanguard veterans, assault marines, or close combat weapons for my army. There is no reason to if I want to win in the shooting phases.

You could also build it so it is only meant for shooting, shooting dreads are used all the time. And anything that is cheaper is usually the go-to for most lists... Do I want a redempetor that i sometimes use in close combat? Or a mobile shooting platform to blow away all my opponents from afar? An additional 4 damage is 4 damage. You can deal with 4 separate targets and mow down entire groups of infantry then. It would also eliminate its biggest problem which is having to move.

I know they're index but I'm in the process of building three venerable dreadnaughts with heavy plasma and twin auto cannons for 126 pts each. They seem a bargain to me, not financially of course but that's forgeworld for you!

With the rather large point drops in CA are Land Raiders finally viable at all? I've always loved the idea of a Crusader surging into the enemy lines and disgorging 16 Marines into the breach, is this worth trying now?

It's certainly worth trying. Just don't count as shooting with it much, since even some gretchin assaulting it is enough to completely shut down its shooting.

 Asherian Command wrote:
If redemptor had a levithian load out with two onslaught cannons they would be the best unit in the space marine codex.

Man oh man I wish that was a thing. I work it out to be 169 points if it was and I would definitely take 2 at least and then a Sicaran punisher and that would be all my big anti-horde sorted.

How do people actually run marine armies now? I've got a Deathwatch force which I've used once but have started painting a crimson fist force from the models I have left over.

I would like to start with a squad of intercessors and some scout snipers as they are the models I have available but after that have no idea how to build them, in guessing were looking at a gunline??

Now that the Primaris Captain got a price cut, the point difference between a Primaris Captain and a Primaris Lieutenant has gotten even more absurd. Eight points buys you better BS Wounds, Attacks and LD, better aura and weapon options and 4+ invulnerable save. It is just bonkers. The way they keep making these lieutenant models, I'd imagine they'd want people to actually use them. Whilst you might want both auras, you'd always get a second Captain before you get a second Lieutenant, which from the fluff perspective is just wrong.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
How do people actually run marine armies now? I've got a Deathwatch force which I've used once but have started painting a crimson fist force from the models I have left over.

I would like to start with a squad of intercessors and some scout snipers as they are the models I have available but after that have no idea how to build them, in guessing were looking at a gunline??

You run them as deathwatch.

I play Ultramarines and use Ven Dreadnoughts. I prefer less wounds but a better BS and not degrading. Also a 6+++. I was thinking get one Redmptor for my army but, I will continue with my Venerable with Autocannon and Combat weapon. I know close combat is not the best option, but many times it saves my infantry squads.

Some day I will buy a Leviathan, some day, still have a big grey wave to assemble and paint.

I am beginning to run a mix of Straight Marines and Primaris. They are just so many normal marines that do their job so well...

Luckily I have now enough models to assemble and paint that maybe I will finish them once a new Primaris wave arrives with better rules.

Nice, im thinking of running an Astartes detachment along side my Deathwatch. Dual battalion, the marines will sit at the back Crimson fist detachment from vigilus and defend while the Deathwatch mixed kill teams go forward and take the enemy on.

 Valkyrie wrote:
With the rather large point drops in CA are Land Raiders finally viable at all? I've always loved the idea of a Crusader surging into the enemy lines and disgorging 16 Marines into the breach, is this worth trying now?

Possibly. I think the Land Raider is something you might take to draw significant fire away from other targets/use as a moving LOS blocker. For the Crusader, it also seems like you could deliver some CC troops, too.

Land Raiders are still pretty..... Erm valuable but they seem to work best with termies now. Ever since both received drops might be worth it to run deathwing now with some land raiders to carry the payloads.

As long as they can be THAT easily stopped from moving forward and/or shooting, they'll never be worth it. Heck, they would've been below mediocre at the codex price if they had a Steel Behemoth equivalent.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
As long as they can be THAT easily stopped from moving forward and/or shooting, they'll never be worth it. Heck, they would've been below mediocre at the codex price if they had a Steel Behemoth equivalent.

Well, Land Raiders need an invulnerable save and higher toughness, these things are supposed to be on par with baneblades. Yet they explode more often in my games than anything. (also doesn't help they are a gun magnet)

I love land raiders but I don't see myself running them due to how easy it is to pop em.

 Asherian Command wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
As long as they can be THAT easily stopped from moving forward and/or shooting, they'll never be worth it. Heck, they would've been below mediocre at the codex price if they had a Steel Behemoth equivalent.

Well, Land Raiders need an invulnerable save and higher toughness, these things are supposed to be on par with baneblades. Yet they explode more often in my games than anything. (also doesn't help they are a gun magnet)

I love land raiders but I don't see myself running them due to how easy it is to pop em.

They're already packing a 2+ save. For once I don't think durability is the issue but rather the fact they're stopped by even a mere Guardsman charging it.