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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/10/26 08:55:02
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Ship's Officer
London
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For ravenguard you want an army that’s all infantry, dreadnoughts and flyers. Anything that doesn’t get the CT (eg tanks) will attract far more fire. If people are shoooting at razorbacks in turn one then you may as well play another chapter.
Raven guard are therefore a really good option for primaris armies. There’s great synergy with the durability of their infantry and the extra -1 to hit. Hellblasters and intercessors are improved a lot.
Meanwhile aggressors are a great options for infiltration. Setting up within 18” of a target lets them fire an immense number of shots on turn one. It can also work to infiltrate characters, especially if there’s a relic to be had.
Dreadnoughts then provide your heavy guns and some cc power too. Contemptors are probably the best fit.
If you’re signed up to Warhammer tv you can check out my friend’s rift stalkers (raven guard successors) in action in game 5 of heat 1 of the ukgt. He’s up against Bobby G and a tactical/razorback spam list. Makes it look pretty unfair.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/10/27 11:43:55
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I don't understand why would contemptors be a better option: the kheres assault cannon is just 24" while a venerable can have both twin las and assault cannon. Sure the comptemport is more resilient but.. or there s something else i m missing? I'm not a big fan of primaris altought an aggressor squad could be interesting in a blood raven list.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/10/27 12:29:29
Subject: Re:Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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The Contemptor can be run as a Mortis and take double weapons and a Carapace Cyclone Missile Launcher. With two Kheres and the CML, the Contemptor Mortis is a resilient beast.
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/10/27 12:35:07
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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Spado wrote:I don't understand why would contemptors be a better option: the kheres assault cannon is just 24" while a venerable can have both twin las and assault cannon. Sure the comptemport is more resilient but.. or there s something else i m missing? I'm not a big fan of primaris altought an aggressor squad could be interesting in a blood raven list.
The Comtemptor also moves faster than normal Dreads, also punches harder. If you take some big buff guy like Guiliman and not just want to simply sit and shoot with Razorback spam (like when you face Admech Dakka Robot spam or IG LR / Artilery spam or Fire Prism Spam / Wave Serpent Spam, which will all easily outgun marine Razorback spam list), the Comtemptors spam maybe a good addition, especially when you march them (3 or more of them) up field with Guiliman and some Techmarine riding bike.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/10/14 00:00:21
Subject: Re:Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Boosting Space Marine Biker
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casvalremdeikun wrote:The Contemptor can be run as a Mortis and take double weapons and a Carapace Cyclone Missile Launcher. With two Kheres and the CML, the Contemptor Mortis is a resilient beast.
Take the Relic Contemptor; 2 more wounds, 6+ FNP, same (and more) weapon options. If you want an assault one you take two CCW and it rerolls hits of 1.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/10/27 16:39:51
Subject: Re:Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Flood wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:The Contemptor can be run as a Mortis and take double weapons and a Carapace Cyclone Missile Launcher. With two Kheres and the CML, the Contemptor Mortis is a resilient beast.
Take the Relic Contemptor; 2 more wounds, 6+ FNP, same (and more) weapon options. If you want an assault one you take two CCW and it rerolls hits of 1.
Don't bother with the two melee weapons but otherwise yeah the Relic one is so much better as a whole.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/10/27 20:12:10
Subject: Re:Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Flood wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:The Contemptor can be run as a Mortis and take double weapons and a Carapace Cyclone Missile Launcher. With two Kheres and the CML, the Contemptor Mortis is a resilient beast.
Take the Relic Contemptor; 2 more wounds, 6+ FNP, same (and more) weapon options. If you want an assault one you take two CCW and it rerolls hits of 1.
I guess I never really looked at it. As long as I can take my 2x Kheres+ CML, I am all for it.
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/10/28 12:51:18
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Ship's Officer
London
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The relic one is better, but it costs a lot more points, is a relic, and relies on whether FW rules are allowed. I think it's likely that we'll see events starting to ban Forgeworld, given the disproportionate power it brings to some other units (though the relic contemptor itself is fine).
In any case, I still like the basic contemptor. It does one thing - hit stuff with a dreadnought combat weapon - better than anything else. I do include the ironclad, relic contemptor and leviathan in "anything else".
The great thing about the contemptor is its combination of reasonable price, high speed, WS2+ and S7. For the same price as an ironclad, or less, you do more damage in combat against the majority of targets, thanks to hitting and wounding on a 2+ where the ironclad needs a 3+. S7 matters a lot when so many vehicles are T7.
The trade-off is firepower, which contemptors lack. The kheres isn't awful but it's clearly no rival to a twin lascannon. This isn't too bad though, because the contemptor spends a lot of most games advancing, locked in cc or, due to the inherently risky nature of its mission, dead. So it's much better not to have spent a lot of points on guns for it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/10/28 15:02:55
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Mandragola wrote:The relic one is better, but it costs a lot more points, is a relic, and relies on whether FW rules are allowed. I think it's likely that we'll see events starting to ban Forgeworld, given the disproportionate power it brings to some other units (though the relic contemptor itself is fine).
In any case, I still like the basic contemptor. It does one thing - hit stuff with a dreadnought combat weapon - better than anything else. I do include the ironclad, relic contemptor and leviathan in "anything else".
The great thing about the contemptor is its combination of reasonable price, high speed, WS2+ and S7. For the same price as an ironclad, or less, you do more damage in combat against the majority of targets, thanks to hitting and wounding on a 2+ where the ironclad needs a 3+. S7 matters a lot when so many vehicles are T7.
The trade-off is firepower, which contemptors lack. The kheres isn't awful but it's clearly no rival to a twin lascannon. This isn't too bad though, because the contemptor spends a lot of most games advancing, locked in cc or, due to the inherently risky nature of its mission, dead. So it's much better not to have spent a lot of points on guns for it.
It isn't that many more points and the Relic rule is easily walked around. Plus nobody cares about whether you're using FW or not unless you're one of those stubborn people from 4th edition that doesn't allow other people to have fun.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/10/28 16:09:47
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Ship's Officer
London
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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Mandragola wrote:The relic one is better, but it costs a lot more points, is a relic, and relies on whether FW rules are allowed. I think it's likely that we'll see events starting to ban Forgeworld, given the disproportionate power it brings to some other units (though the relic contemptor itself is fine).
In any case, I still like the basic contemptor. It does one thing - hit stuff with a dreadnought combat weapon - better than anything else. I do include the ironclad, relic contemptor and leviathan in "anything else".
The great thing about the contemptor is its combination of reasonable price, high speed, WS2+ and S7. For the same price as an ironclad, or less, you do more damage in combat against the majority of targets, thanks to hitting and wounding on a 2+ where the ironclad needs a 3+. S7 matters a lot when so many vehicles are T7.
The trade-off is firepower, which contemptors lack. The kheres isn't awful but it's clearly no rival to a twin lascannon. This isn't too bad though, because the contemptor spends a lot of most games advancing, locked in cc or, due to the inherently risky nature of its mission, dead. So it's much better not to have spent a lot of points on guns for it.
It isn't that many more points and the Relic rule is easily walked around. Plus nobody cares about whether you're using FW or not unless you're one of those stubborn people from 4th edition that doesn't allow other people to have fun.
It’s 37 points more. The relic rule starts to matter a lot if you want to have more than one of them. Those 37 points buy a dread that hits no harder in cc than the standard contemptor.
I wish that FW wrote good rules, but they don’t. They just don’t have the resources to test their rules at all, so when they suddenly had to make rules for hundreds of units st the start of 8th they produced some real trash. Go play at game against Aetaos’rau’keres and let me know how much “fun” you had.
The relic contemptor isn’t that bad. For me, it’s more than I want to spend. The mortis is a good lascannons platform, especially for raven guard.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/10/28 18:07:47
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Mandragola wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Mandragola wrote:The relic one is better, but it costs a lot more points, is a relic, and relies on whether FW rules are allowed. I think it's likely that we'll see events starting to ban Forgeworld, given the disproportionate power it brings to some other units (though the relic contemptor itself is fine).
In any case, I still like the basic contemptor. It does one thing - hit stuff with a dreadnought combat weapon - better than anything else. I do include the ironclad, relic contemptor and leviathan in "anything else".
The great thing about the contemptor is its combination of reasonable price, high speed, WS2+ and S7. For the same price as an ironclad, or less, you do more damage in combat against the majority of targets, thanks to hitting and wounding on a 2+ where the ironclad needs a 3+. S7 matters a lot when so many vehicles are T7.
The trade-off is firepower, which contemptors lack. The kheres isn't awful but it's clearly no rival to a twin lascannon. This isn't too bad though, because the contemptor spends a lot of most games advancing, locked in cc or, due to the inherently risky nature of its mission, dead. So it's much better not to have spent a lot of points on guns for it.
It isn't that many more points and the Relic rule is easily walked around. Plus nobody cares about whether you're using FW or not unless you're one of those stubborn people from 4th edition that doesn't allow other people to have fun.
It’s 37 points more. The relic rule starts to matter a lot if you want to have more than one of them. Those 37 points buy a dread that hits no harder in cc than the standard contemptor.
I wish that FW wrote good rules, but they don’t. They just don’t have the resources to test their rules at all, so when they suddenly had to make rules for hundreds of units st the start of 8th they produced some real trash. Go play at game against Aetaos’rau’keres and let me know how much “fun” you had.
The relic contemptor isn’t that bad. For me, it’s more than I want to spend. The mortis is a good lascannons platform, especially for raven guard.
37 more points for two additional wounds, a 6+ FNP, and more options. Its absolutely better than the base Contemptor.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/01 00:24:07
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Charging Dragon Prince
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Okay, need a bit of help. I really want to make a list that is nothing but Terminators, Dreadnoughts and maybe a Land Raider and Predator or two. What would be the best Codex Chapter to run that as?
And what would be a good list for that kind of theme? I know it most likely won't be super competitive, but it just sounds fun.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/01 14:53:30
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Depends the loadout. If you're doing Assault Terminators, you might be better off with Black Templars. Tactical Terminators can go with many of them actually. MAYBE Ultramarines for them.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/01 15:49:59
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Death-Dealing Devastator
Arkansas (Not Canada)
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A low unit count army with assault capable units like Terminators can make good use of the Raven Guard stratagem, as you're more likely to get the first turn and get T1 charges with your terminators. The CT will also help your Dreadnoughts survive incoming fire as they are advancing. That said, doing that is usually pretty CP intensive, so you may want to consider sneaking (pun 100% intended) in some Scouts to make a Batallion if you want to get more competitive with it.
Other choices are:
Black Templars: charge rerolls on Terminators and Melee Dreadnoughts.
Salamanders: Rerolls are huge for Dreadnoughts and terminators in melee.
Iron Hands: FNP isn't glamorous, but always useful.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/01 19:14:41
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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guys I have my fw index here and I don't see the option of a CML for the contemptor, I must be blind or something... Is it an option available just if you play it in 30k matches?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/01 19:18:06
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Spado wrote:guys I have my fw index here and I don't see the option of a CML for the contemptor, I must be blind or something... Is it an option available just if you play it in 30k matches?
It was added in the FAQ. Enjoy to your hearts content.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/01 19:26:28
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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What is the best load-out for a tactical squad? I have 30 mkIII space marines still in the box and some juicy FW weapons (plasma, combi-plasma, heavy flamer, combi-flamer) and some devastator weapons, everything but the lascannon and missile launcher. What is your advice guys? At the moment I was thinking about combi-plasma for the sergeant and maybe the plasma cannon for one marine. Still keep in mind that I'm proxying my blood angels as blood ravens using ravenguard chapter tactics.
Thank you in advice.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/01 19:57:35
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/01 20:12:17
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Ship's Officer
London
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Spado wrote:What is the best load-out for a tactical squad? I have 30 mkIII space marines still in the box and some juicy FW weapons (plasma, combi-plasma, heavy flamer, combi-flamer) and some devastator weapons, everything but the lascannon and missile launcher. What is your advice guys? At the moment I was thinking about combi-plasma for the sergeant and maybe the plasma cannon for one marine. Still keep in mind that I'm proxying my blood angels as blood ravens using ravenguard chapter tactics.
Thank you in advice.
Plasma and combo-plasma are good. Grab cannons make useful heavy weapons. I’m not sure close combat stuff is needed, but a power sword wouldn’t hurt.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/01 20:44:38
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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I've been using 5 man teams with lascannon or grav cannon with a cc weapon for sarge. Don't forget to cower in cover for 2+ armor vs shooting. Combis are too costly for my purposes.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/01 20:45:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/01 20:56:12
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Been Around the Block
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Martel732 wrote:I've been using 5 man teams with lascannon or grav cannon with a cc weapon for sarge. Don't forget to cower in cover for 2+ armor vs shooting. Combis are too costly for my purposes.
I agree with this. Lascannons in Tact squads are exceptionally good if running Salamanders and Grav Cannons synergise really well with most tactical squads. Storm Bolters are also a worthy upgrade.
I find the double plasma expensive and not that great. If I want a Plasma squad I'll run Hellblasters or a Vet squad.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/01 21:00:03
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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I'm actually running no chapter tactics and it's still working okay.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/01 22:25:33
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Boosting Space Marine Biker
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I've switched from RG to IH and finding it a lot more useful in terms of survivability, which is where I'm always feeling weak with SM. Staying 12"+ away really doesn't play into it much beyond first turn, apart from your long-range guys. IH is much more useful for your infantry/bikers I find, particularly terminators. Salamanders are also really good for getting that extra damage in and saving your CP for other things.
Certainly depends on who/what you are playing, but that's been my experience.
I really, really hope we get Chapter Tactics extended to apply to vehicles in Chapter Approved, feels like we're missing out on a lot of benefits compared to the elves/guard atm.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/01 22:53:21
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Flood wrote:I've switched from RG to IH and finding it a lot more useful in terms of survivability, which is where I'm always feeling weak with SM. Staying 12"+ away really doesn't play into it much beyond first turn, apart from your long-range guys. IH is much more useful for your infantry/bikers I find, particularly terminators. Salamanders are also really good for getting that extra damage in and saving your CP for other things.
Certainly depends on who/what you are playing, but that's been my experience.
I really, really hope we get Chapter Tactics extended to apply to vehicles in Chapter Approved, feels like we're missing out on a lot of benefits compared to the elves/guard atm.
We are definitely headed back to 2nd ed at this rate.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/02 14:21:48
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Death-Dealing Devastator
Arkansas (Not Canada)
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Spado wrote:What is the best load-out for a tactical squad? I have 30 mkIII space marines still in the box and some juicy FW weapons (plasma, combi-plasma, heavy flamer, combi-flamer) and some devastator weapons, everything but the lascannon and missile launcher. What is your advice guys? At the moment I was thinking about combi-plasma for the sergeant and maybe the plasma cannon for one marine. Still keep in mind that I'm proxying my blood angels as blood ravens using ravenguard chapter tactics.
Thank you in advice.
Always 5 men, with free useful sergeants now there's even less reason to go above minimum than before. Sergeant should always have a ranged weapon and a melee weapon, pistols seem a lot less useful than chainswords.
Depending on what role you expect the squad to have, I lean towards double Plasma out of a Razorback, or Lascannon and Stormbolter. I think Scouts should be your first three troop choices in general, but if you're going for a brigade I can see Tacs being a contender for slots 4-6.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/02 14:33:42
Subject: Re:Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I use 7-man devastator teams with 2 ablative wounds. It serves me to survive 1st turn. Best use I got for those 50 points I had around. Devastators attract insane amounts of attention from my opponents
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/02 14:48:41
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Because those are easy heavy weapons to remove.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/02 15:24:27
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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That's why the prime loadout is 2 Heavy Weapons at minimum with the Cherub or 3 Heavy Weapons at 6 dudes. Still no point to the Tactical Marine as long as I can do that.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/02 16:08:52
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Always 5 men, with free useful sergeants now there's even less reason to go above minimum than before. Sergeant should always have a ranged weapon and a melee weapon, pistols seem a lot less useful than chainswords.
Depending on what role you expect the squad to have, I lean towards double Plasma out of a Razorback, or Lascannon and Stormbolter. I think Scouts should be your first three troop choices in general, but if you're going for a brigade I can see Tacs being a contender for slots 4-6.
I still don't know how to use scouts: generally I place them around my troops to deny these aggressive deep strike but they literally deal 0 damage beside these lucky 6's which I don't get very often. How do you use them?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/02 16:39:12
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Spado wrote:
Always 5 men, with free useful sergeants now there's even less reason to go above minimum than before. Sergeant should always have a ranged weapon and a melee weapon, pistols seem a lot less useful than chainswords.
Depending on what role you expect the squad to have, I lean towards double Plasma out of a Razorback, or Lascannon and Stormbolter. I think Scouts should be your first three troop choices in general, but if you're going for a brigade I can see Tacs being a contender for slots 4-6.
I still don't know how to use scouts: generally I place them around my troops to deny these aggressive deep strike but they literally deal 0 damage beside these lucky 6's which I don't get very often. How do you use them?
They're cheap and efficient bubble wrap that can be deployed anywhere to do that job basically.
I'm personally a fan of shotguns if I'm offensive with them. 4 Shotguns and a Combi-Plasma is pretty darn great. CCW works well and so does the snipers + ML. I just wouldn't bother with Bolters. We can more Bolters elsewhere, and better ones to boot.
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/11/02 16:41:24
Subject: Space Marines 8th edition, glory to the codex (ohh and those black templar guys too)
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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I use shotgun scouts. They work fine.
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