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With the release of Codex IK this weekend, has their been any indication as to how the changes might affect Questor Traitoris ( I think that's what the Chaos Knights are called..)? Would we still be relying on the Index data slate or would we simply be taking an updated Codex Knight sans the house/legion trait, allying it in to a chaos force and calling it Traitoris?

eternalxfl wrote:
With the release of Codex IK this weekend, has their been any indication as to how the changes might affect Questor Traitoris ( I think that's what the Chaos Knights are called..)? Would we still be relying on the Index data slate or would we simply be taking an updated Codex Knight sans the house/legion trait, allying it in to a chaos force and calling it Traitoris?

Currently GW has stated that Renegade Knights won't get an update with the Codex. Whether or not we get a pity FAQ either with the Codex or with the IK FAQ remains to be seen.

Has anyone else spotted that the "Imperial Knights: Renegade" set has rules for renegade knights - it says just the dataslate, so I guess no points, but these could be updated rules in line with imperial Knights?

- Rules for using Knights in games of Warhammer 40,000, including datasheets for a Knight Paladin, Knight Errant, Knight Gallant, Knight Warden, Knight Crusader, and Knight Renegade;

MrPieChee wrote:
Has anyone else spotted that the "Imperial Knights: Renegade" set has rules for renegade knights - it says just the dataslate, so I guess no points, but these could be updated rules in line with imperial Knights?

- Rules for using Knights in games of Warhammer 40,000, including datasheets for a Knight Paladin, Knight Errant, Knight Gallant, Knight Warden, Knight Crusader, and Knight Renegade;

Just checked the site and saw this as well.. this could be interesting. Going to stay tuned to the release for more details..

Knight Renegade = just put two Avenger Gatling Cannons on it, if you’re playing a Power Levels game with friends or at an event then you’ll pay for them anyway, also you will never get a plastic kit with distinctive Chaos weapons or even a set of faction rules, now cross your fingers the loadout won’t be banned or nerfed to death

 lindsay40k wrote:
Knight Renegade = just put two Avenger Gatling Cannons on it, if you’re playing a Power Levels game with friends or at an event then you’ll pay for them anyway, also you will never get a plastic kit with distinctive Chaos weapons or even a set of faction rules, now cross your fingers the loadout won’t be banned or nerfed to death

Personally, I got both a renegade knight and a Lord of skulls and I would always chose LOS over the renegade knight almost every single time. Being able to use strategems and cast powers like warp time on a LOS wins out over using a renegade knight without strategems and psychic powers. And a LOS gets better as it gets injured while a renegade knight gets worse.

Now, if they allow us to field renegade Dominus model knights next time, that might be a different matter. The fire power output of a Valiant or a Castallan is a lot higher than even a renegade knight, no matter what loadout it has.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Knight Renegade = just put two Avenger Gatling Cannons on it, if you’re playing a Power Levels game with friends or at an event then you’ll pay for them anyway, also you will never get a plastic kit with distinctive Chaos weapons or even a set of faction rules, now cross your fingers the loadout won’t be banned or nerfed to death

Personally, I got both a renegade knight and a Lord of skulls and I would always chose LOS over the renegade knight almost every single time. Being able to use strategems and cast powers like warp time on a LOS wins out over using a renegade knight without strategems and psychic powers. And a LOS gets better as it gets injured while a renegade knight gets worse.

Now, if they allow us to field renegade Dominus model knights next time, that might be a different matter. The fire power output of a Valiant or a Castallan is a lot higher than even a renegade knight, no matter what loadout it has.

The cost of the new Castellan works out to be less than a Lord of Skulls.

Considering the Stratagems in the new Codex, in relative terms, that Renegade just got a lot more expensive for what it does.

Well, like I said. if they allow us to field renegade Castallans or renegade valiants, it would be a different story. But at this point of time, that's a no go.

does anyone know if they put unit options in the knight codex to take say 2 gatling cannons?

thinking of running a knight list but chaos proxy, however all might knights have dual weps

 Latro_ wrote:
does anyone know if they put unit options in the knight codex to take say 2 gatling cannons?

thinking of running a knight list but chaos proxy, however all might knights have dual weps

Imperial knight weapons are set in stone.

Index knights get any loadout they want!

It makes Chaos Knights actually suprisingly effective in Power Level games (like some Doubles for funsies events) Since you can take a more expensive load out for a cheaper power level compared to an Imperial Knight (which are balanced for each load out.)

It takes a lot to justify ever using a Chaos Knight... so if you find yourself in a casual PL game... it could be fun to bring the Knight and maybe, just maybe not be a huge handicap!

Ah thats to to bad actually my two have dual GC and dual RFBC

I could just swap over an arm from each and run them as crusader knights!

iron warrior knight army coming soon.

One thing that’s good in the Knights book is the sword/first combo (Knight Gallant) seems to be getting +2A and +1WS

The Index (and Admech) versions all have the same profile, with no bonus for melee specialisation, other than the points saving. Nice to see that the duelist is genuinely a beast at close quarters. Their better familiarity with melee combat also means that their stomping is far deadlier than the lumbering gunners as well (which, I suspect, is how the majority of their battle will go - trampling their way to a screened target, or denied one altogether by a no-tanks list). So, fingers crossed we at least get an additional rule similar to the bonuses dreadnought-type things usually get from melee dedication.

Interesting that the Chaos Knight power level is based on an average of its loadout. Usually, you pay for a Lascannon or a power fist & combi-melta on every model that can hold them

 lindsay40k wrote:
One thing that’s good in the Knights book is the sword/first combo (Knight Gallant) seems to be getting +2A and +1WS

The Index (and Admech) versions all have the same profile, with no bonus for melee specialisation, other than the points saving. Nice to see that the duelist is genuinely a beast at close quarters. Their better familiarity with melee combat also means that their stomping is far deadlier than the lumbering gunners as well (which, I suspect, is how the majority of their battle will go - trampling their way to a screened target, or denied one altogether by a no-tanks list). So, fingers crossed we at least get an additional rule similar to the bonuses dreadnought-type things usually get from melee dedication.

Interesting that the Chaos Knight power level is based on an average of its loadout. Usually, you pay for a Lascannon or a power fist & combi-melta on every model that can hold them

It seems weird because it is only calculating one model. The power math gets REAL weird after adding lots of models.

did someone played or ever watch play lists with both Magnus and Mortarion, the only one i know was running a nurgle demon battalion, can it work?

 blackmage wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:

 Ap0k wrote:
I hadn't really considered Nurgle Daemons to be honest. I guess the idea would be to just bring a bunch of efficient tarpits and have them bodyguard the important killy units?

That seems to be popular. Myself, I’ve been fielding a force of Epidemius Battalion, Word Bearers Oblits Spearhead, DG Drones & Haulers Outriders. Stay bunched up a bit around DPs at the start to get rerolls, after killing a couple of units scatter around to pick targets. Going t,o treat myself to a Decimator for a Soulburner Petard to finish off near dead units

yes more or less that's the idea, Nurgle battalion can put lot of cheap and durable bodies on the table, Dp's/oblys bloated drones deliver some punch, it works i will try a close setup like that this weekend, playing a Nurgle battalio+Ts supreme command made me 2nd place at 30 person tournament, and i won both with Tau and Eldar so for me Nurgle is a good answer.

Maybe I'm missing something, but Plaguebearers don't really seem that much more efficient per point when it comes to survivability compared to cultists (vs Splinter Weaponry)? While there's going to be marginal benefit vs close combat attacks, the Alpha Legion trait probably evens that out vs shooting attacks, and the 210pts 30 Plaguebearers cost could put just over 52 Cultists on the table instead. Thats just raw stats + traits though, and doesn't factor in any stratagems/psychic powers, so there's an unknown element in the equation.

By contrast, Nurglings seem like they're be much better troops tax tarpits, since losing FNP vs 2+ Damage weapons really isn't a big deal (hell, if he shot Disintegrators into Nurglings I'd consider that a win!). Their drawback comes with the necessity to add more units/models in order to effectively screen vs things like jetbikes that can jump over them to tie up butcher cannon dreads, which expands the cost of the tax (though they're absolutely more efficient than plaguebearers, per point).

Further to this, the HQ slots don't really seem much to write home about. Poxbringers look solid on first glance, with some beneficial psychic powers to help shore up defences. Epedimius seems like he needs a much heavier commitment to Nurgle Daemons in order to benefit from the tally, and many of the named characters seem intended to synergize with assorted specific units (plaguebearers, nurglings, etc).

While I could just jam a min-sized battalion into a list for CP's, it feels like I still need to be bringing relevant bodies to the table somehow. The Heavy Support/Fast Attack/Elites choices don't really seem to provide much that I can't get in the CSM 'dex, particularly since that's where most of my anti-vehicle needs to come from.

I'm not very familiar with C: Daemons though, so I'm happy to concede that there may very well be aspects that I'm missing. I'd just prefer not to have to invest in codex + models only to find that they aren't greatly expanding my options.

but T4 and FNP 5+++ is big, not all De weapons are poisoned so be wounded at 3+ instead of 2+ and save anything he can throw at you makes a big difference, then -1 from Al is easy to override for a fast army like De and doesn't work in close combat. Cultists are a strong choice but they need some baby sitting like Abbadon makes them fearless. I ran a list with both 60 Pb and about 110 fearless cultists and in any case Pb usually gets the end of game, cultists not.

Realistically, in a medium sized game, the main payoff of an Epidemius list is that after a turn of good shooting you don’t need to rely on your DPs to provide rerolls and you can even sacrifice them to assassinate an MVP (I like to use Chaos Familiar to give Warptime to mine to take someone by suprprise). Sure, you can go all-out on damage, but I prefer a more balanced list in which Epidemius is an objective camper who provides a perk to most of the army and frightens a lot of deep insertion units.

If you’re taking Epidemius in a list, he needs a screen or else your army-wide buffs are waiting to be deep striked to death. You’re taking Nurgle Daemons, so you’re taking Nurglings to start on objectives etc. So, you’re already over halfway there to filling out a NURGLE DAEMONS Battalion. A squad of Plaguebearers in an Epidemius list is not taken in lieu of a squad of Cultists, it’s taken in lieu of the three squads of Cultists who’d be necessary to pay troops tax in a HERETIC ASTARTES battalion.

I know a lot of people write the Malefic Lord off as a waste of points since the increase, but My Lords have been putting in some serious work.

Today one opened a Rhino so my Chosen could Plasma the marines inside to death, pulled a Nelifum out of the sky like he was Starkiller dropping the ISD, stalled a jump chaplain in CC in one game and left the table alive.

Another game he mulched a Scout Squad and half a hellblaster Squad before being brought down by three turns of shooting from an Intersessor squad.


I feel like he’s still usable for 80 points.

 Iur_tae_mont wrote:
I know a lot of people write the Malefic Lord off as a waste of points since the increase, but My Lords have been putting in some serious work.

Today one opened a Rhino so my Chosen could Plasma the marines inside to death, pulled a Nelifum out of the sky like he was Starkiller dropping the ISD, stalled a jump chaplain in CC in one game and left the table alive.

Another game he mulched a Scout Squad and half a hellblaster Squad before being brought down by three turns of shooting from an Intersessor squad.


I feel like he’s still usable for 80 points.

Eeeeh, at 80 points he isnt good. Better off paying a bit more for a real sorcerer at that point.

malefic lords are good for casual play not in competitive.

Anyone able to get a hold of the Renegade Knight data sheet from the Renegades box set? I'd be eager to see a screenshot of it.

eternalxfl wrote:
Anyone able to get a hold of the Renegade Knight data sheet from the Renegades box set? I'd be eager to see a screenshot of it.

Spikey bits <shudders> did an unboxing, and it is literally the index datasheet. Bare in mind they made this box set before the absolute SEA of people started complaining about the lack of Chaos support as the previews rolled out, so they probably didn't have time to change anything, IF they change anything.

Has anyone used a Knight Atrapos? I know non-Codex Knights are not the best atm but I really like the model

hello someone can give me some feedbacks about this list ty

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/758499.page#10018103

Well, originally posted in the TS thread about adding some renegade allies to my force, but I figured I might ask here too, maybe someone here has some experience with them.

A single Rouge psyker coven seems ok, 15 wounds with 5++ for 100 points isn't all that bad, and they can do some neat tricks (like supercharging a crucial deny attempt), and it opens the path for some serious firepower with vanguard/spearhead/outrider detachments.

Any opinions on the worth of some heavy guns to bring in?
Basilisks? medusas? sentinals? heavy weapon teams?
Or even, RUSSES?!

Anything sounds valuable for CSM, especially TS flavored? anyone has any experience fielding allied renegades?

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, originally posted in the TS thread about adding some renegade allies to my force, but I figured I might ask here too, maybe someone here has some experience with them.

A single Rouge psyker coven seems ok, 15 wounds with 5++ for 100 points isn't all that bad, and they can do some neat tricks (like supercharging a crucial deny attempt), and it opens the path for some serious firepower with vanguard/spearhead/outrider detachments.

Any opinions on the worth of some heavy guns to bring in?
Basilisks? medusas? sentinals? heavy weapon teams?
Or even, RUSSES?!

Anything sounds valuable for CSM, especially TS flavored? anyone has any experience fielding allied renegades?

Renegades in general are...Eh. Honestly, if you can find an equivelent in the CSM/TS books, they're probably going to synergize better. But if you have to bring Renegades, Russes are indeed a welcome addition, as well as Basilisks, since we don't have much of anything that compares to those two as far as play style goes.

Medusas are fun, but my Colossus Bombard puts in the most work in my army between the two. Better range and higher shot variance

I'd be curious to know if anyone's used Renegade Mauraders? Only due to the sniper rifles; mathhammer leaves me unsure as to their utility.

I’ve yet to kill anyone with mine, but with stalkers you can sit them on an objective in cover and your opponent will have to dig them out like ticks.
There are worse ways to spend 34 points