Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

you can, if the other units in detachement shares at least 1 faction keyword (heretic astartes or Nurgle in this case)

Hey guys, I'm building mono-faction Alpha Legion, wouldn't mind some feedback. I'm trying to keep it pretty fluffy and as unwarped as possible. Here's a rough first attempt.




Alpha Legion Battalion, +5 CP

1x Jump Pack Sorcerer, Prescience + Death Hex
1x Jump Pack Sorcerer, Warptime + Diabolic Strength

40x Autogun Cultists, 4x Flamer, MoS
40x Autogun Cultists, 2x Flamer, MoS
10x Autogun Cultists

5x Havoc, 4x Lascannon, MoS
5x Havoc, 4x Lascannon, MoS



Alpha Legion Spearhead, +1 CP

1x Jump Pack Chaos Lord, Blade Of The Hydra, Warlord, MoK

3x Obliterators, MoS
3x Obliterators, MoS
3x Obliterators, MoS




Alpha Legion Battalion, +5 CP

1x Jump Pack Chaos Lord, Power Fist, MoK
1x Jump Pack Chaos Lord, Power Fist, MoK

10x Autogun Cultists
10x Autogun Cultists
10x Autogun Cultists






Basically Infiltrating the two Cultists blobs and the top Sorcerer if necessary, double shooting something prudent each turn, and just tying up the field with a mass of operatives while the PA gunline brings down anything heavier. Diabolic Strength for the guy with the Hydra Blade, and cause why not.



Not sure how good the Smash Lords are, or if I should be infiltrating an Apostle instead of one of them for the LD buff to cultists, but open to suggestions

Looks fine, you could take an apostel and exaltet champion if you cut one of the jumpy lords and maybe make the other to a normal lord without jumppack.

Skullphoquer wrote:

Spoiler:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Hey guys, I'm building mono-faction Alpha Legion, wouldn't mind some feedback. I'm trying to keep it pretty fluffy and as unwarped as possible. Here's a rough first attempt.




Alpha Legion Battalion, +5 CP

1x Jump Pack Sorcerer, Prescience + Death Hex
1x Jump Pack Sorcerer, Warptime + Diabolic Strength

40x Autogun Cultists, 4x Flamer, MoS
40x Autogun Cultists, 2x Flamer, MoS
10x Autogun Cultists

5x Havoc, 4x Lascannon, MoS
5x Havoc, 4x Lascannon, MoS



Alpha Legion Spearhead, +1 CP

1x Jump Pack Chaos Lord, Blade Of The Hydra, Warlord, MoK

3x Obliterators, MoS
3x Obliterators, MoS
3x Obliterators, MoS




Alpha Legion Battalion, +5 CP

1x Jump Pack Chaos Lord, Power Fist, MoK
1x Jump Pack Chaos Lord, Power Fist, MoK

10x Autogun Cultists
10x Autogun Cultists
10x Autogun Cultists






Basically Infiltrating the two Cultists blobs and the top Sorcerer if necessary, double shooting something prudent each turn, and just tying up the field with a mass of operatives while the PA gunline brings down anything heavier. Diabolic Strength for the guy with the Hydra Blade, and cause why not.



Not sure how good the Smash Lords are, or if I should be infiltrating an Apostle instead of one of them for the LD buff to cultists, but open to suggestions

Looks fine, you could take an apostel and exaltet champion if you cut one of the jumpy lords and maybe make the other to a normal lord without jumppack.

Nah, you want the Jump Packs for this situation. Can't the Champs take a Jump Pack too?

 blackmage wrote:
you can, if the other units in detachement shares at least 1 faction keyword (heretic astartes or Nurgle in this case)

I'd be interested to see if anyone can come up with a vague list that would be at least half decent and fun in a casual games environment (not competitive I expect, but decent is good enough!)

So the units I'd want in the list (including some conversion projects in progress):

1 Character (conversion - large, bulky) - Probably a Daemon Prince of Nurgle (on foot)

1 Character (conversion - flying, slim) - Flying Daemon Prince (any god), or maybe Ahriman/Sorcerer on Disk

1 Giant Chaos Spawn (Nurgle or Tzeentch)

2 Exalted Flamers


Units I'm considering:

2 Bloat Drones (or 2 Helbrutes, or 2 Contemptors, or 2 Decimators)

1 Leviathan Dreadnaught - 2xHellflamers, and some combination of Butcher Cannons and/or Soulburner Ribaudkins

1/2/3 units of 3 Nurglings

1 or 2 units of standard Flamers

Maybe Blue Scribes (seems a fun unit and an interesting model to make/convert)



Would be nice to find out that a fun/decent list could be made with the units I would like to actually create and paint haha. Low on bubblewrap I know, but I don't want to paint a horde of identical cultists or anything.

Thoughts on best loadouts for a Lord of Skulls? Assembling mine now, looking forward to playing it.

I’m thinking just the standard loadout. The sucker is expensive enough as it is, and I don’t think the auto hit weapons are worth it. Hades Gatling seems like the best choice of the gun arm options. Too bad I can’t take a second one for his belly gun.

Warp Timing him up the board sounds so dirty, but against a few of the local lists I’ve seen that were cheesy as hell, I won’t feel so bad if/when I face off against them.

Don't worry, just go for it. Warptime that LOS up the board and scare the crap out of people!

The LOS is expensive for its firepower, considering what imperial knights can have access to. (Consider a Castellan's firepower against that of a LOS). But the LOS has a lot more synergy with a CSM army because it can benefit from warptime as well as the daemon forge strategem.

As far as I am concerned, CSM needs all the advantages it can get. In any case, the LOS makes a great centrepiece of a model (I love the model). So, don't be shy to go for it.

Hades Gratling gun is great. Always go for that if you can unless points become such a big issue. (Or if your local meta is so shooty it can shoot a LOS off the board in one turn).

Haha thank you for the encouragement. I faced a shadowsword list last week that could probably do a fair bit of damage to a LoS.

I guess other fast units are a must, as well as maybe some infiltrating alpha legion Berzerkers or something,

Our only Faction keyword that can’t be used in a detachment is CHAOS. Go ahead and use Plague Drones to fill out a NURGLE Outriders. Or use some Bikers, or Tzaangor Enlightened, and make it a HERETIC ASTARTES Detachment. If you don’t need to unlock the Stratagems, or LEGION Traits, there’s no drawback to Chaos soup.

What is the height difference between a Khorne Kytan and a Renegade Knight? If any? Thinking a conversion might be a decent idea...then I can do the “Rick and Morty” Mags/Mortarion/Kytan combo.

I have been looking at building a competitive EC list and wanted to get some feedback on what to bring? Obviously I would bring the Noise marines for core but how big? 10 man or bigger? How many sonic brutes and then what else?


thanks

well, sadly there isn't really a competitive EC list. When the book dropped and then the FAQ for sonic dreads, sure, but as of now you pay way too much for what you get. Helbrutes are just terrible, over priced and way to easily killed. They need some love, like a demonic invuln or at least let them roll a die for every wound lost that phase for crazed. Noise marines are great compared to normal marines, but that isn't worth much lol. Right now they depend on CP's like madness in order to keep up. Sure they shoot when they die, but then they are dead.

Let me explain it another way. go read up on a carnifex with heavy venom canon then look at the sonic helbrute and the costs, it's fething stupid. The carnifex is dramatically cheaper, doesn't sacrifice his combat arms for guns unless he wants more guns (4 arms is nice lol) and the heavy venom canon is S9 ap-2 3 damage with D3 shots and assault. Oh and they come in groups of 3 meaning they can have 9 but act independently. It's so stupid. Then a tyranid warrior with bones swords and death spiter has an assault HB, yup, better then our sonic blaster and a power weapon and they have 3 wounds for only a bit more. Thats one book thats realeased last fall.

I really feel like the books released last summer are total garbage in regard to balance when compared to the fall and spring releases. Fall ramped them up and winter ans spring kind of kept the creep at bay, nothing crazy happend, it's the gap between the first 4 books and every one else that is insanely wide.

Currently competitive means spamming cultists, just look at that list posted just above. It's some characters, some heavys and a sh1t ton of cultists. No thanks, I'll play my Catachans when I feel like running soft humans lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry to sound negative, this was geared toward the competitive part of your request, I love my EC and would encourage you to build an army, just don't expect to beat the majority of the field in competitive settings. For pick up games they rock and are great for modeling opportunities. Or to play an event and hope to place somewhere in the middle at best, but have fun.

Which would you say was the most 'competitive' of the cult space marines?

Niiru wrote:
Which would you say was the most 'competitive' of the cult space marines?

Absolutely Berserker Marines.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Which would you say was the most 'competitive' of the cult space marines?

Absolutely Berserker Marines.

How would you rate them, in order?

I'd guess that they'd be something like:

Berserkers

Plague / Rubric

Noise

berserker
noise
plague
rubric
IMHO

I'd put Rubrics ahead of Plague Marines to be honest.

rubrics cost tons and do absolutely nothing 107pt for 5 models which are deleted in 1 nanosecond, plague and rubrics are the two worst cult, at least in competitive ( i mean tournaments)

How good are renegade armiger warglaives?

 blackmage wrote:
rubrics cost tons and do absolutely nothing 107pt for 5 models which are deleted in 1 nanosecond, plague and rubrics are the two worst cult, at least in competitive ( i mean tournaments)

They work a lot better inside of their own books where Rubrics get more psychic powers and a psychic range bonus and Plague Marines get better supporting rules.

Basically if you're going to run them, I'd argue for a detachment of them from their codex instead of pure out of the CSM book (which is funny since I've seen TS players argue for taking Rubrics out of the CSM book for units of 5 with a Soulreaper Cannon since you can't get one below 10 models in the TS codex currently. Somewhere Tzeentch is laughing at this I bet).

 lindsay40k wrote:
Our only Faction keyword that can’t be used in a detachment is CHAOS. Go ahead and use Plague Drones to fill out a NURGLE Outriders. Or use some Bikers, or Tzaangor Enlightened, and make it a HERETIC ASTARTES Detachment. If you don’t need to unlock the Stratagems, or LEGION Traits, there’s no drawback to Chaos soup.

Oh wow...I actually hadn't thought of using that keyword...

foetid bloat drones and tzaangor enlightened...oh man. This opens up so many ridiculously fun army builds...

My EC noise marines are going to have new allied heretic astartes detachment full of weird and wondrous allies!

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
rubrics cost tons and do absolutely nothing 107pt for 5 models which are deleted in 1 nanosecond, plague and rubrics are the two worst cult, at least in competitive ( i mean tournaments)

They work a lot better inside of their own books where Rubrics get more psychic powers and a psychic range bonus and Plague Marines get better supporting rules.

Basically if you're going to run them, I'd argue for a detachment of them from their codex instead of pure out of the CSM book (which is funny since I've seen TS players argue for taking Rubrics out of the CSM book for units of 5 with a Soulreaper Cannon since you can't get one below 10 models in the TS codex currently. Somewhere Tzeentch is laughing at this I bet).

regardless of codex they are overcosted , i often test for ETC and almost no one play them, then of course in casual games they might be decent, in competite they are close to useless. There is no reason to spend on them lot of psy powers when you can play 30 tzaangors which are 100 times better and lot cheaper, try to face 30 tzaangors full empowered by Ts spells and face 10 rubrics empowered same way... i know maybe i have restricted point of view because i play only competitive so im limited in my choices. my 2 cents

Hi guys (and ladies). What is the general consensus on chosen now days?

I am considering doing up some chosen models with combi bolters and chainswords. @ 18pts a pop for 4 bolter shots and 3cc attacks they look like they could make a decent infantry killer unit.

 blackmage wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
rubrics cost tons and do absolutely nothing 107pt for 5 models which are deleted in 1 nanosecond, plague and rubrics are the two worst cult, at least in competitive ( i mean tournaments)

They work a lot better inside of their own books where Rubrics get more psychic powers and a psychic range bonus and Plague Marines get better supporting rules.

Basically if you're going to run them, I'd argue for a detachment of them from their codex instead of pure out of the CSM book (which is funny since I've seen TS players argue for taking Rubrics out of the CSM book for units of 5 with a Soulreaper Cannon since you can't get one below 10 models in the TS codex currently. Somewhere Tzeentch is laughing at this I bet).

regardless of codex they are overcosted , i often test for ETC and almost no one play them, then of course in casual games they might be decent, in competite they are close to useless. There is no reason to spend on them lot of psy powers when you can play 30 tzaangors which are 100 times better and lot cheaper, try to face 30 tzaangors full empowered by Ts spells and face 10 rubrics empowered same way... i know maybe i have restricted point of view because i play only competitive so im limited in my choices. my 2 cents

See, I feel this is where people are missing the boat. An Aspiring Sorceror is a good backup source for a power (like Death Hex) if you need it in your army because you might lose your HQ Sorceror, and he doesn't suffer from tossing out Smite every turn anymore. Additionally Rubrics don't need as many supporting elements to do their job (camp on an objective in cover and deter anyone from getting too close).

Tzaangors are better employed as an offensive element in the army to push up and smack things in the face (sometimes as an alpha strike), which isn't what you want Rubrics for. Rubrics are your anvil while other parts of your army serve as a hammer.

That said, 1 unit of 20 or 2 units of 10 are the most Rubrics I'd run at around 2k as they're not something to over invest in since you should be running other stuff (like a Mutalith Vortex Beast who works great as a self-buffing Distraction Carnifex who can also toss out mortal wounds and buff your Goats for only 150 points, or a Defiler with Lascannons you buff with Flickering Flames to wreck their armoured toys with).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bryan01 wrote:
Hi guys (and ladies). What is the general consensus on chosen now days?

I am considering doing up some chosen models with combi bolters and chainswords. @ 18pts a pop for 4 bolter shots and 3cc attacks they look like they could make a decent infantry killer unit.

Chosen are pretty good, they just have to compete with a heavily loaded elites section that makes putting them into an army fairly difficult at times. That said, if you basically want to use them as Diet Terminators who roll up in a Rhino, hop out and unleash the fury, it's not a horrible choice.

 Bryan01 wrote:
Hi guys (and ladies). What is the general consensus on chosen now days?

I am considering doing up some chosen models with combi bolters and chainswords. @ 18pts a pop for 4 bolter shots and 3cc attacks they look like they could make a decent infantry killer unit.

The exact loadout you listed is pretty cool. Chosen are doing basically what Sternguard and Command Squads are doing except better, seeing that Sternguard only have two attacks, and Command Squads have a pretty useless bodyguard rule and don't have as many good Strategems to use. VotLW is pretty awesome with 6 Combi-Bolters, even when that's not the best target to use it on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blackmage wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
rubrics cost tons and do absolutely nothing 107pt for 5 models which are deleted in 1 nanosecond, plague and rubrics are the two worst cult, at least in competitive ( i mean tournaments)

They work a lot better inside of their own books where Rubrics get more psychic powers and a psychic range bonus and Plague Marines get better supporting rules.

Basically if you're going to run them, I'd argue for a detachment of them from their codex instead of pure out of the CSM book (which is funny since I've seen TS players argue for taking Rubrics out of the CSM book for units of 5 with a Soulreaper Cannon since you can't get one below 10 models in the TS codex currently. Somewhere Tzeentch is laughing at this I bet).

regardless of codex they are overcosted , i often test for ETC and almost no one play them, then of course in casual games they might be decent, in competite they are close to useless. There is no reason to spend on them lot of psy powers when you can play 30 tzaangors which are 100 times better and lot cheaper, try to face 30 tzaangors full empowered by Ts spells and face 10 rubrics empowered same way... i know maybe i have restricted point of view because i play only competitive so im limited in my choices. my 2 cents

Rubrics aren't overcosted as much as the Flamers are and the fact they can't get a Cannon until 10 dudes reeks. At least they could've been fluffy and said you get the cannon at 9 dudes.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Rubrics aren't overcosted as much as the Flamers are and the fact they can't get a Cannon until 10 dudes reeks. At least they could've been fluffy and said you get the cannon at 9 dudes.

Yeah, the heavy weapon option should have allowed for smaller units, and while I feel the flamer could be cheaper, I also feel like they priced it like that to try and restrict flamer spam from being a tactic. That or it was just too powerful in testing and they priced accordingly. Seeing community interaction with the codex could lead to changes in points cost and options in CA, but we'll have to wait and see to know for sure there.

Even if everything for Rubrics was cheaper I don't think we're ever going to see them en masse on the table though, at least not as long as CP generation is tied to list building where it promotes Tzaangors over Rubrics for massed units.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Rubrics aren't overcosted as much as the Flamers are and the fact they can't get a Cannon until 10 dudes reeks. At least they could've been fluffy and said you get the cannon at 9 dudes.

Yeah, the heavy weapon option should have allowed for smaller units, and while I feel the flamer could be cheaper, I also feel like they priced it like that to try and restrict flamer spam from being a tactic. That or it was just too powerful in testing and they priced accordingly. Seeing community interaction with the codex could lead to changes in points cost and options in CA, but we'll have to wait and see to know for sure there.

Even if everything for Rubrics was cheaper I don't think we're ever going to see them en masse on the table though, at least not as long as CP generation is tied to list building where it promotes Tzaangors over Rubrics for massed units.

I'm not saying they couldn't be cheaper of course. The cannon thing bothers me the most though.

Also I'm still peeved that CSM units, by default, are not automatically Vet stats.

show me a list which had success ( i mean high level tournaments) and play a decent number of rubrics, please.
Ps: why put death hex with a casting cost of 8 to aspiring sorcerer when you can have Ahriman or a Dp with high magister, try to cast a important spell like death hex without any bonus is wrong it will go off 5/12 times, no sense, smite with 1 mortal wound is nothing just a small bonus, btw for a tournament player rubrics will remain trash, im sorry.

I'm pretty sure there were actually a few recently so I'll to dig them up when I get to my computer.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Rubrics aren't overcosted as much as the Flamers are and the fact they can't get a Cannon until 10 dudes reeks. At least they could've been fluffy and said you get the cannon at 9 dudes.

Yeah, the heavy weapon option should have allowed for smaller units, and while I feel the flamer could be cheaper, I also feel like they priced it like that to try and restrict flamer spam from being a tactic. That or it was just too powerful in testing and they priced accordingly. Seeing community interaction with the codex could lead to changes in points cost and options in CA, but we'll have to wait and see to know for sure there.

Even if everything for Rubrics was cheaper I don't think we're ever going to see them en masse on the table though, at least not as long as CP generation is tied to list building where it promotes Tzaangors over Rubrics for massed units.

What would be so bad with flamer rubrics being an actual thing?

If they wanted to prevent spam, the choice should have been to not have 10 in the box and just restrict the number, but as it is priced its utterly useless-you can't afford to put an overpriced gun on an already overpriced platform.

Rubrics needs about 2 point reduction to their base cost, soulreapers at 5 man squads and about 5 point reduction to flamers in order for them to be a viable choice for competetive games, and even then I'm not sure they'll be good enough to form the core of a competitive list.