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So, thoughts on Feculent Gnarmaw plus Plagueburst Crawlers?

Not Online!!! wrote:
Welllllllllll, the Talisman relic exists, give it to a jumppack Lord kitted for rip and tear and watch as your Lord removes stuff.

For distraction terminators. Actually why not take multilators?
Tougher, better equiped and msu of 3 with far less pts.

A distraction unit has to actually be a threat, and three models with M4 aren’t that scary.

If you love the unit and want to field them, consider a khorne Daemonkin list. They can teleport in and re-roll failed charges off a Locus. Budget a CP to reroll the lower of a 2-5 or 1-6 and the odds aren’t that bad.

If you want your opponent to prioritise shooting at a unit, present them with one they can’t simply avoid with a brisk stroll.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Dynas - polytheist list with Khorne melee and Sorcerer support is a good call. I like to have something that can benefit from Warptime every turn, but which does not rely on it to be viable. A blob of Cultists are often a good late game Warptime - Tide of Traitors in the midgame, and rendezvous for a high speed charge late on. So, mobility is really important for a midfield support Sorcerer, I put mine on a Steed of Slaanesh or give them a Jump pack so they can put buffs down and pop cheeky smites where they’re needed. Won one huge game just by killing Herald Deathwolf and a Knight with precision Warptiming and Death Hexing.

I’m still assembling my own dual Rhino Berzerker contingent, and I’m thinking a Daemon Engine will accompany them. A Heldrake, or Warptimed Maulerfiend. Something that’ll really draw attention from the Rhinos from the start and demand a full kill, without costing more than the contents.

I actually love the Lord of Skulls model. And I agree it has far more synergy with a CSM army than a renegade knight. For one thing, its can have legion keyword. This means it can benefit from certain psychic powers and strategems.

Other than Daemon Forge, another key psychic is warptime. Now bubble wrap can of course foil this. But you can't ignore a possibility of a first turn charge with the LOS into enemy lines because wrap time means it has a potential 20 inch reach on the first turn.

Even if it crashes into a bubble wrap. It doesn't matter, the bubble wrap doesn't stop it from firing. And he would probably retreat the bubble wrap from combat (unless it got totally destroyed in combat phase). It nevertheless applies a huge amount of pressure immediately, which is what it is meant to do.

The key thing is whether your opponent brought enough shooting. If he has so much shooting he can take down a LOS in one turn, then sure it won't make back its points. (This is true for any renegade knight unit as well). But if he doesn't have any shooting or devotes his shooting to other targets, then your LOS would be able to rampage through his lines and hopefully make back its cost.

There are other synergies too. For instance, make it black legion and if you run Abbadon beside it, it gets reroll to hit every turn. Make it world eaters and run Kharn beside it, and you get the same effect. Plus a huge LOS is a great shield for Kharn. Its unlikely anyone can target Kharn until they have taken out the LOS. The issue is that with the Hades Gratling gun (which is its best gun), it is rather expensive in points. A Castellan might arguably have greater firepower (even a renegade one). But its far more visually chaos than a castellan, and I love mine. I rejigged the back so that it looks more stream lined.

A distraction unit has to actually be a threat, and three models with M4 aren’t that scary.

If you love the unit and want to field them, consider a khorne Daemonkin list. They can teleport in and re-roll failed charges off a Locus. Budget a CP to reroll the lower of a 2-5 or 1-6 and the odds aren’t that bad.

If you want your opponent to prioritise shooting at a unit, present them with one they can’t simply avoid with a brisk stroll.

A: No they don't need to be dangerous, they just need to be interpreted as dangerous by your opponent.

B: M4 isn't much off a problem if you put them down in a position that is central enough, preferably in a way where your opponent can't really sidestep them.

Do they require more brains to play, yes, but let's not pretend that Terminators are a better option they are not, infact the cheapest possible terminator squad is worse in melee and also just has M5 so the same applies to them. They are also atleast 69 pts more expensive for only 1, ONE,wound more. A toss up really.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Welllllllllll, the Talisman relic exists, give it to a jumppack Lord kitted for rip and tear and watch as your Lord removes stuff.

For distraction terminators. Actually why not take multilators?
Tougher, better equiped and msu of 3 with far less pts.

Because I've just bought 10 Chaos terminators and I don't have any mutilators.

From a tactical point of view the mutilators probably do that job better, I agree. I was just suggesting something to drop near your opponent so that they have to make the awkward decision of trying to get rid of them, OR concentrating fire on a couple of Rhino's stuffed full of very angry Berserkers.

My Chaos Lord (also a terminator) is planned to have the Talisman relic and hopefully will be able to remove stuff. Faces mostly.

 RobS wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Welllllllllll, the Talisman relic exists, give it to a jumppack Lord kitted for rip and tear and watch as your Lord removes stuff.

For distraction terminators. Actually why not take multilators?
Tougher, better equiped and msu of 3 with far less pts.

Because I've just bought 10 Chaos terminators and I don't have any mutilators.

From a tactical point of view the mutilators probably do that job better, I agree. I was just suggesting something to drop near your opponent so that they have to make the awkward decision of trying to get rid of them, OR concentrating fire on a couple of Rhino's stuffed full of very angry Berserkers.

My Chaos Lord (also a terminator) is planned to have the Talisman relic and hopefully will be able to remove stuff. Faces mostly.

Any way that allows you to get within that nice advance and guaranteed charge range makes the Talisman allready worth it, with the right melee equipment, probably also consider the axe artifact?
Generally the Terminator lord is a good option, not the best out there, (that goes to the 08/15 camper lord sitting near heavy guns) but he can be workable.

I absolutely love CSM terminators, i myself own also 10 but sadly they hardly get stuff done only ever shot at, (went over and made them Nurgle alpha legionaires, rulewise not paintwise, and now use them literally as cheapest possible dakka configuration to soak bullets) . Meanwhile i hate the models mutilators have, but i find the idea behind them interesting and their capabilities atleast as a concept well done, harmed however by their price and movement.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 RobS wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Welllllllllll, the Talisman relic exists, give it to a jumppack Lord kitted for rip and tear and watch as your Lord removes stuff.

For distraction terminators. Actually why not take multilators?
Tougher, better equiped and msu of 3 with far less pts.

Because I've just bought 10 Chaos terminators and I don't have any mutilators.

From a tactical point of view the mutilators probably do that job better, I agree. I was just suggesting something to drop near your opponent so that they have to make the awkward decision of trying to get rid of them, OR concentrating fire on a couple of Rhino's stuffed full of very angry Berserkers.

My Chaos Lord (also a terminator) is planned to have the Talisman relic and hopefully will be able to remove stuff. Faces mostly.

Any way that allows you to get within that nice advance and guaranteed charge range makes the Talisman allready worth it, with the right melee equipment, probably also consider the axe artifact?
Generally the Terminator lord is a good option, not the best out there, (that goes to the 08/15 camper lord sitting near heavy guns) but he can be workable.

I absolutely love CSM terminators, i myself own also 10 but sadly they hardly get stuff done only ever shot at, (went over and made them Nurgle alpha legionaires, rulewise not paintwise, and now use them literally as cheapest possible dakka configuration to soak bullets) . Meanwhile i hate the models mutilators have, but i find the idea behind them interesting and their capabilities atleast as a concept well done, harmed however by their price and movement.

Didn't like the idea of my terminator lord hacking his bodyguard to bits with the axe by accident, if he was using a terminator squad as company. I also didn't want to model him with an axe either for reasons I can't remember.
I originally wanted him to have a sword of some description and a single lightning claw, but then I realised he'd look like Abaddon so I went for lightning claw and customised chainfist.

He's the 'fluff' choice for my army leader, and yeah, I love the CSM terminator model and the customisation you can do. But I'm resigning myself to the fact that in a game they would probably just act as bullet magnets.

I haven't decided about the concept of mutilators/obliterators yet (I'm a returning player, last gamed in 2e and they didn't exist then) and the models aren't appealing to me.

Can confirm a distraction unit only needs to APPEAR dangerous. Cant tell you the amount of times people focus fired on my bloodthirster, while rhinos full of Zerekers raced up the board. People tend to forget the stats when they see a stonkin big model. Same can be said for the defiler. Tournament cheese? LORD NO. Doesnt stop everyone and their mother from assuming it is far scarier than it really is.

Anyone try a Hellforged Kharybdis? I plan on using my recently finished kitbashed one this Sunday at a 1500 pointtournament to deliver a 19 man Iron Warriors unit (2 plasma guns, combi-plasma, all bolters) with my Power Fist/combi-melta Lord.

It has some good shooting and is pretty nasty in combat and almost a Land Raider stats. I'm thinking that Iron Within, Iron Without stratagem might come in handy when people try to blast the crap out of it.

But with the new deepstrike rules I'm nervous about having to start it on the table, and nervous about waiting until turn 2 to drop-pod it. In that army I also have a rhino with 10 CSMs, and a blob of 30 Cultists, a Daemon Prince, and 3 Slaanesh Obliterators. I'm taking Delightful Agonies on the Prince too for extra resilience.

I really like Chaos Marines' stratagems options. They seem to have something useful for every phase and for a variety of units. Switching out Smite for Warptime could be very very useful on that Kharybdis.

The tournament Sunday has alternate army list option too, so I will be able to use my Lord of Skulls and las/missile Helbrute army at least once too if the enemy has something big that needs heavier firepower and a big chainsaw to kill.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Can confirm a distraction unit only needs to APPEAR dangerous. Cant tell you the amount of times people focus fired on my bloodthirster, while rhinos full of Zerekers raced up the board. People tend to forget the stats when they see a stonkin big model. Same can be said for the defiler. Tournament cheese? LORD NO. Doesnt stop everyone and their mother from assuming it is far scarier than it really is.

I'll echo this sentiment. You can't buy much more apparent danger for 170 points than a Defiler these days. Its big, takes up a lot of space, and if you have a CP or 2 for Daemonforge it can cause a shocking amount of damage when it connects in close combat. Opponents definitely want to shot it, and if you can buff him with Weaver / Miasma / Delightful Agonies and/or Smoke, he can take a lot of bullets to put down for good. And with the scourge he hits like a truck in melee until his last breath. The nice thing about the Defiler is as long as he soaks up a decent amount of firepower, you don't even feel bad about losing him.

If you are trying to get a psychological screen for Rhinos moving up field, you can't really do much better than the Defiler. He has roughly the durability of a Greater Daemon, is significantly bigger on the table, and costs a lot less points.

KAC is in a really tricky place. If it drops in, a competent opponent will deny it dinner. If it starts on the table and you have Warptime, you’re praying for first turn. Nobody in their right mind will let that sort of setup survive T1, and it’s got the kind of silhouette that’s very difficult to fully conceal. Get T1 and successfully throw it at your oppnent’s face and it may be game over there and then. Delightful Agonies is outstanding on it, if you take more than one spell.

Fly nerf might not hamstring it so much. The size of the thing meant charge-over-screen acrobatics relied heavily on your opponent making mistakes.

Hmm. The threat of that thing reaching your lines on the first turn is a horrific scarecrow. The sort of thing that frames the deployment of a wise opponent who doesn’t want half their army to eat S8 flamer if they go second. The sort of thing that destroys an opponent who doesn’t realise that it can deploy on the table as they organise their lines and lose first turn. And you can always deploy it in orbit after your opponent has put most of their army in very cautious positions. So I guess its main competitive use is as a psychological tool.

It’s definitely had its day in the sun. Daaaamn, remember those T1 charges killing IKs after dropping off Prescience NMs? I miss the early pages of this thread

 akaean wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
Can confirm a distraction unit only needs to APPEAR dangerous. Cant tell you the amount of times people focus fired on my bloodthirster, while rhinos full of Zerekers raced up the board. People tend to forget the stats when they see a stonkin big model. Same can be said for the defiler. Tournament cheese? LORD NO. Doesnt stop everyone and their mother from assuming it is far scarier than it really is.

I'll echo this sentiment. You can't buy much more apparent danger for 170 points than a Defiler these days.

But I just can't bring myself to even consider buying, building and painting THAT.

However good it is, my guys don't want a tiny-headed spider of Khorne clanking around.

How about a heldrake as distraction? It doesn't do any actual work but people just can't help but shoot at it. It's also handy to absorb overwatch as it's high movement lets you set up a low risk charge. Especially if you charge it in from behind it doesn't get in the way.
God I hope they get a boost in chapter approved or something...

 RobS wrote:

 akaean wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
Can confirm a distraction unit only needs to APPEAR dangerous. Cant tell you the amount of times people focus fired on my bloodthirster, while rhinos full of Zerekers raced up the board. People tend to forget the stats when they see a stonkin big model. Same can be said for the defiler. Tournament cheese? LORD NO. Doesnt stop everyone and their mother from assuming it is far scarier than it really is.

I'll echo this sentiment. You can't buy much more apparent danger for 170 points than a Defiler these days.

But I just can't bring myself to even consider buying, building and painting THAT.

However good it is, my guys don't want a tiny-headed spider of Khorne clanking around.

I share your dislike the ‘pinhead’ aesthetic of the kit as is, but after being given one as a present I’ve got the ‘let’s make this thing look decent’ bug and ended up making it my go-to for hobby challenges. It is a very flexible kit that can be kitbashed into all manner of shapes. I’ve recently done a crab with a turret, and I’m in the final stages of a scorpion.

Could even do a Maulerfiend up as one. Extend the gunmouth as a battle cannon with a bit of tubing or whatever, put whips on one side and Gatling gun on the other, put a smoke launcher on it, maybe extend the fingernails to pass as claws, make sure to explain what it is before each game, job done

 lindsay40k wrote:

 RobS wrote:

 akaean wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
Can confirm a distraction unit only needs to APPEAR dangerous. Cant tell you the amount of times people focus fired on my bloodthirster, while rhinos full of Zerekers raced up the board. People tend to forget the stats when they see a stonkin big model. Same can be said for the defiler. Tournament cheese? LORD NO. Doesnt stop everyone and their mother from assuming it is far scarier than it really is.

I'll echo this sentiment. You can't buy much more apparent danger for 170 points than a Defiler these days.

But I just can't bring myself to even consider buying, building and painting THAT.

However good it is, my guys don't want a tiny-headed spider of Khorne clanking around.

I share your dislike the ‘pinhead’ aesthetic of the kit as is, but after being given one as a present I’ve got the ‘let’s make this thing look decent’ bug and ended up making it my go-to for hobby challenges. It is a very flexible kit that can be kitbashed into all manner of shapes. I’ve recently done a crab with a turret, and I’m in the final stages of a scorpion.

Could even do a Maulerfiend up as one. Extend the gunmouth as a battle cannon with a bit of tubing or whatever, put whips on one side and Gatling gun on the other, put a smoke launcher on it, maybe extend the fingernails to pass as claws, make sure to explain what it is before each game, job done

First off: Great work, me like, i'd like to hire you for a sack of teef.

Secondly: Would there be a possibility to make the Gun/mouth piece itself to be the head of the defiler? Respectively, could one use the Defiler BC and it's mount on a leman Russ?
I might or might not ask since i want to do some conversions for my R&H.

 lindsay40k wrote:

 RobS wrote:

 akaean wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
Can confirm a distraction unit only needs to APPEAR dangerous. Cant tell you the amount of times people focus fired on my bloodthirster, while rhinos full of Zerekers raced up the board. People tend to forget the stats when they see a stonkin big model. Same can be said for the defiler. Tournament cheese? LORD NO. Doesnt stop everyone and their mother from assuming it is far scarier than it really is.

I'll echo this sentiment. You can't buy much more apparent danger for 170 points than a Defiler these days.

But I just can't bring myself to even consider buying, building and painting THAT.

However good it is, my guys don't want a tiny-headed spider of Khorne clanking around.

I share your dislike the ‘pinhead’ aesthetic of the kit as is, but after being given one as a present I’ve got the ‘let’s make this thing look decent’ bug and ended up making it my go-to for hobby challenges. It is a very flexible kit that can be kitbashed into all manner of shapes. I’ve recently done a crab with a turret, and I’m in the final stages of a scorpion.

Could even do a Maulerfiend up as one. Extend the gunmouth as a battle cannon with a bit of tubing or whatever, put whips on one side and Gatling gun on the other, put a smoke launcher on it, maybe extend the fingernails to pass as claws, make sure to explain what it is before each game, job done

Your conversion is ace, that guy looks fething angry!

But I'm not sold on big war machines in 40k in general, and even less so for my particular faction. I'm not 'seriously' gaming yet so for the time being I'll just work on the models I like.

Biggest thing I want (and in fact, I've wanted one of these since I first started a Chaos army in 2e) is a Bloodthirster.

@NotOnline!!! - I’ve done the gunmouth Defiler head conversion myself, just takes a little filing and filling. Using that part to kitbash a Leman Russ should be easily within a confident kitbasher’s ability.

There used to be a supported Brass Scorpion build with the gunmouthhead that required the parts of one and a half Defilers and left that part spare. I was considering it for my own second Defiler, but cash - and space on the Knight bases I use for them - was tight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, thanks for compliments, fellow followers of the eightfold path

Big war machines are like, 50% of the reason I love Chaos

 vaklor4 wrote:
Big war machines are like, 50% of the reason I love Chaos

Now if only alot of the heavy support daemon engines would not be so, i don't know, weak or just simply outclassed.

Also i am still wanting a predator with hades autocannons.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
Big war machines are like, 50% of the reason I love Chaos

Now if only alot of the heavy support daemon engines would not be so, i don't know, weak or just simply outclassed.

Also i am still wanting a predator with hades autocannons.

I mean... you could just take a forgefiend.

They cost a little more, but you get a 5++ save, and an extra wound (or more, could be up to 7 extra wounds in a long game). You can also re-roll all 8 of your (potential) failed hits and wounds for it for 1CP, without needing to buy two other predators.

Honestly in know that, but i still feel the hades autocannons are on too few units. Then there's the problem of bs 4+ and lastly i just would like some more normal tank options with it since neither alpha legion nor IW nor night lords are crazy mutated whilest the dinobot has that peculiar style.

Then again i'd also would like a bigger inferno rocket launcher as a arty piece, basically like a "hwacha ".

 vaklor4 wrote:
Big war machines are like, 50% of the reason I love Chaos

Just goes to show the variety available through a chaos army.
I'm drawn to chaos by the CSMs. Nasty, bitter angry dudes with a grudge that's lasted 10,000 years.

 RobS wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
Big war machines are like, 50% of the reason I love Chaos

Just goes to show the variety available through a chaos army.
I'm drawn to chaos by the CSMs. Nasty, bitter angry dudes with a grudge that's lasted 10,000 years.

BUT BUT BUT, what about the angy small bitter and marginalized bunch?
What about the works, the mutants and the rogue psykers?

you can't have an army without the small grudge holders like that!

I just bought two knights this weekend. I wanted to flesh out my force a bit more to have more of a punch. The idea behind the list is to have a very resilient force with speed and fire power. I can drop the Plagueburst Crawler in favor of 35 more cultists to have more screening units for my dakka knight. With the current build I have lots of armor, some flamers, melta cannons, galtings cannons. The mixed loadout knight basically acts as the distraction carnifex along side the armiger to shoot at tanks and charge stuff.

Will I struggle versus horde lists? Or what would this struggle against?

The list

Side note- noticed you can have a KHORNE Sorcerer as your KT commander.

How? Psykers cannot have the Khorne keyword.

They probably forgot to include the rule that prevents you from making Khorne Sorcerers in the Commanders book - play as if it exists, because it obviously should, and expect it to be remedied in an FAQ.

 lindsay40k wrote:
How? Psykers cannot have the Khorne keyword.

Sorry for 2x post

Hahaha, there were multiple typos in the preview content, this is going to be a klustafrag