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Anybody know much about AOS? I'm thinking about putting together some khorne daemons as allies for my black legion, I don't have the daemons codex but looking on battlescribe there's not really much to choose from for khorne.
Are most khorne daemons useable in AOS?

I like the idea of switching my lord to khorne. I wanted to keep the bolt pistol for the mortal wound strat, i have had my chaos lords get stuck in cc with an enemy who thought they were safe due to being so tough (charged by a rhino 1 game, last game i played he got charged by an ork battlewagon) and then watched as my lord started kicking the crap out of their vehicles with the d3 mw strat from the pistol and the 6's to wound causing mortal on top of the dmg from the hydra sword. For 72pts its hard to deny his potential.

I was looking for a way to make chaos marines useful, yes i agree havocs are easier to get what you want if you want 4 plasma guns. But if you just want 3 and you want bolter bodies / bolter marines as well for infantry shooting i think its a viable option. I do want to get some rhinos for them though. In my last game vs orks ( i won btw) it was large in part to 1 squad of these guys getting across the field and charged into a battlewagon. My opponent had other, stronger things he had to deal with so he couldn't get much over to them other than a squad of looters and a big mek on bike. I lost 2 marines a turn but we were fighting over an objective and i was the only one with ob spec units there, they got me 5 vp out of 3 turns, i was very happy with them.

CSM HQ are always fun in CC because I find in casual settings many people underestimate how much harder they hit than your average back field support unit. Especially the named ones like Ahriman.

 barboggo wrote:
CSM HQ are always fun in CC because I find in casual settings many people underestimate how much harder they hit than your average back field support unit. Especially the named ones like Ahriman.

Honestly, i am surprised by nothing anymore, at the start of 8th I had a match against a Eldar/DEldar index list at 500 pts with the 2+ invulnerable Archon against my R&H. Long Story short, my R&H commander proceeded to kick the living gak out of my opponents archon after that one got stuck in my militia.
Fast forward a bit and i had a match against the same opponent, this time nearly excactly the same situation.
(of course in a casual setting)

I learned that one never, ever should underestimate small HQ's with energy weapons.

Why people however insist that charging a Chaos lord is a smart idea is beyond me still, they are /were one of the most iconic melee HQ's there are and even when built around the support of a gunline, are devastating enough to gain back their cheap pricetag. Albeit i miss the option to throw them up on a juggernaut with a Daemonweapon

Not Online!!! wrote:


Why people however insist that charging a Chaos lord is a smart idea is beyond me still, they are /were one of the most iconic melee HQ's there are and even when built around the support of a gunline, are devastating enough to gain back their cheap pricetag. Albeit i miss the option to throw them up on a juggernaut with a Daemonweapon

Juggerlord's still in the Index, and you've got the Axe of Blind Fury.

Or black mace gives you 4 S8 -2 2D attacks plus possible extra mortal wounds on top of your 3 s7 jugger attacks. Pretty nice.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 barboggo wrote:
CSM HQ are always fun in CC because I find in casual settings many people underestimate how much harder they hit than your average back field support unit. Especially the named ones like Ahriman.

Honestly, i am surprised by nothing anymore, at the start of 8th I had a match against a Eldar/DEldar index list at 500 pts with the 2+ invulnerable Archon against my R&H. Long Story short, my R&H commander proceeded to kick the living gak out of my opponents archon after that one got stuck in my militia.
Fast forward a bit and i had a match against the same opponent, this time nearly excactly the same situation.
(of course in a casual setting)

I learned that one never, ever should underestimate small HQ's with energy weapons.

Why people however insist that charging a Chaos lord is a smart idea is beyond me still, they are /were one of the most iconic melee HQ's there are and even when built around the support of a gunline, are devastating enough to gain back their cheap pricetag. Albeit i miss the option to throw them up on a juggernaut with a Daemonweapon

Yeah. Some of my favorite tabletop moments in 8th have been about HQ units doing way more work than my opponent expects.

Abaddon303 wrote:
Or black mace gives you 4 S8 -2 2D attacks plus possible extra mortal wounds on top of your 3 s7 jugger attacks. Pretty nice.

And how long will that last?

No models no Rules allready cucked my R&H grenadier army, not to mention that the stop of the R&H line is terrible, on the other hand i went to the GW competitor and got myself some sweet models there, started even a Blog, anyways i kind of find that highly annoying from GW, and i can't fathom what Ork players feel torwards that rule.

Yeah. Some of my favorite tabletop moments in 8th have been about HQ units doing way more work than my opponent expects.

It will always be hillarious when a 29 pts charachter beats up a 90+ pts charachter he has no buisness beating up, ironically i did not even roll all that hot. (side note Covenant of Khorne and a Energy sword were necessary.)

Oof, based on the stuff read in here...Abbadon backed up by two BL Slaanesh Marked havoc squads with Lascannons sounds like a nasty backfield. Point, click, dead?

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Oof, based on the stuff read in here...Abbadon backed up by two BL Slaanesh Marked havoc squads with Lascannons sounds like a nasty backfield. Point, click, dead?

You may have just hit upon the most powerful matchup in 8th edtion 40k.

Sweet! Time to convert an Abbadabbadoodon!!

 barboggo wrote:
CSM HQ are always fun in CC because I find in casual settings many people underestimate how much harder they hit than your average back field support unit. Especially the named ones like Ahriman.

I was playing against my buddy and he flew over Ahriman and charged into my Defiler... my thoughts on the matter was basically, "oh, okay, are you sure?" My buddy assured me that Ahriman was pretty beastly and he would be okay. Well Ahriman didn't roll quite as well as he had hoped and Ahriman was not okay.

New hammerman + 3 rough psykers for 190 pts? Seems super nasty for black legion players! Can't wait to test this.

Does Hammerman have any special rules or is the fact he has a Thunder Hammer special enough?

Nizrah wrote:
New hammerman + 3 rough psykers for 190 pts? Seems super nasty for black legion players! Can't wait to test this.

Few things:
-Everything in the box is capped at what's in the box. So you can only take 2 psykers.
-The psykers (and everything else except the renegade guardmen) have a "special" rule that makes them not take up elite slots, so you can't fill out cheapo detachments with them.

You could take hammerman and his two psyker pals in a regular BL detachment though. Not sure if the psykers can actually cast anything other than smite though (but they peril on any doubles, and I think add 1 to psy tests)

Hammerman has no special rules. He's just a stock lord with a plaspistol and thunderhammer.

Welp that's kinda lame. Does it at least make it an option for generic Lords to take then? There's now a model after all!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Welp that's kinda lame. Does it at least make it an option for generic Lords to take then? There's now a model after all!

NOPE, because we are csm we don't get old stuff or some vehicles like jetbikes, just as we do not get thunderhammers.

Mind you if it were a new autocannon we would get it but probably restricted to specific units. ( Just like the hades autocannon , btw still wanting a pred with dual hades autocannons)

I guess there's nothing stopping you converting your own hammer lord, but he'd have to be a lord and he'd have to also carry a plasma pistol then you can just run him using the same data sheet


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you run black legion of course

Yeah, Never under estimate chaos lords. All they need is a power weapon and they can be deadly. I remember my world eaters chaos lord charging into sisters unit. He had a murder sword (which is basically a glorified power weapon).

After I rolled to hit, and rerolled any ones, came up with two sixes, which triggered death to the false emperor. And then world eaters trait gave me another one extra attack.

He went from four base attacks to seven attacks that all hit! Very fierce! Needless to say, the sisters unit was wiped out.

In fact, I am thinking of having two Chaos Lords on jump pack for my World Eaters. So, they will function like the equivalent of cheap smash captains. I put axe of blinding fury on one and black mace on the other. So, one will do d3 dmg while another will do a flat 2 dmg on a hit. Its not as good as the flat 3 dmg of a thunderhammer, but its still decent, with the two artifacts, both will hit at str 7, and consider that I hit on 2s, plus have the opportunity to trigger Death to the false emperor and world eaters adds another +1 attack, they will be pretty nasty even on a basic charge. And this is not even considering using veterans of the long war, or fury of khorne strategem. And they are cheaper than a smash captain, and a lot cheaper than a flying Daemon Prince as well.

The thing is, world eaters need shooting. They are glass cannons. They can absolutely wreck face if they get to charge into the nasties but they need the chaff cleared away because if all you have are melee units, its a no brainer for the opponent to focus fire them down, and throw chaff and blockers in their way. So, you need shooting that can clear away the chaff.

Some of that is why the Blade of the Hydra is one of the best relics in the entire game; it turns a Chaos Lord into a murder machine, and it's a free upgrade. I like to run a Lord with a Jump Pack and give him that weapon, and he usually puts in good work. Mark him Khorne and you can potentially use the 3CP fight again strat for even more carnage.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Why people however insist that charging a Chaos lord is a smart idea is beyond me still, they are /were one of the most iconic melee HQ's there are and even when built around the support of a gunline, are devastating enough to gain back their cheap pricetag.

Shooting has been significantly stronger then melee for so long in 40K's lifespan that there's an astounding number of people who have very little understanding of how it works.

If you removed shooting from the game entirely and had just melee units, there would be as much of a meta in all-melee 40K as there is in the base game, due to just how much depth there is in this game's melee combat that not alot of people are aware of.

They need as least a power weapon, power fist or a relic though. A chaos lord with a normal chain sword isn't much of a threat.

Abaddon303 wrote:
Anybody know much about AOS? I'm thinking about putting together some khorne daemons as allies for my black legion, I don't have the daemons codex but looking on battlescribe there's not really much to choose from for khorne.
Are most khorne daemons useable in AOS?

Age of Sigmar is awesome! Khorne Daemons are plenty good in that game, you'll probably want at least 30 Bloodletters minimum, though 90 is better for Sigmar; in 40k you could deepstrike the 30 Bloodletters and have them charging 3D6" with that artefact banner I think. Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury and the Insensate Rage One are both very good as well, though in 40k they often get shot to pieces, but a good distraction unit that if it gets in there can wreck face. Frankly either game can have that problem, but Sigmar not nearly as much of a shooting game most of the time. Skull Cannons surprisingly also good! Plastic Fleshhounds are on their way and can be super useful in both games.


With 40k we have the detachment system. In AoS there are Warscroll Battalions. Building one of those for Khorne Daemons will net you a 40k detachment of some sort most of the time, or close to it. So it's actually a cost effective way to buy models, lucky for Daemons! Tzaangor armies are also a good way to get both games if you like the Tzeentchy vibe too, and Mutalith monsters too. And Spawn and Gigantic Spawn!

 McGibs wrote:

Nizrah wrote:
New hammerman + 3 rough psykers for 190 pts? Seems super nasty for black legion players! Can't wait to test this.

Few things:
-Everything in the box is capped at what's in the box. So you can only take 2 psykers.
-The psykers (and everything else except the renegade guardmen) have a "special" rule that makes them not take up elite slots, so you can't fill out cheapo detachments with them.

You could take hammerman and his two psyker pals in a regular BL detachment though. Not sure if the psykers can actually cast anything other than smite though (but they peril on any doubles, and I think add 1 to psy tests)

Hammerman has no special rules. He's just a stock lord with a plaspistol and thunderhammer.

Wait, is this rules lawyer compliant? ‘Does not take up a slot’ is not the same as ‘does not break Legion purity or Battleforged criteria’. If they’re not in their special formation, do they have any keywords in common with BLACL LEGION - HERETIC ASTARTES - <DEITY>? Do they keep you from activating your Legion trait? Do they stop you from unlocking CSM Stratagems?

 lindsay40k wrote:
Wait, is this rules lawyer compliant? ‘Does not take up a slot’ is not the same as ‘does not break Legion purity or Battleforged criteria’. If they’re not in their special formation, do they have any keywords in common with BLACL LEGION - HERETIC ASTARTES - <DEITY>? Do they keep you from activating your Legion trait? Do they stop you from unlocking CSM Stratagems?

It's spelled out in the data sheets.

For the Black Legionnaires, they can only appear in a detachment featuring Obsidius Mallex. He has the Black Legion keyword and so do they. Therefore, the normal rules around Legion traits apply.

For the Rogue Psykers, Negavolt Cultists, Traitor Cultists, and Beastmen, their faction keywords are CHAOS and SERVANTS OF THE ABYSS. That means they can only appear in a SERVANTS OF THE ABYSS detachment. They also have Slaves to Mallex special rule, which means they don't take up slots in a detachment featuring OM in a battleforged army.

Obsidius Mallex does not have Slaves to Mallex. He can only appear in a Black Legion detachment because you can't use Chaos as a Faction keyword. These units would normally not be able to join a Black Legion detachment as part of a Battleforged army because they lack the proper keyword.

What's important here, and what answers the question, is the word BATTLEFORGED. They can actually only join a BATTLEFORGED Black Legion detachment featuring OM because they don't have the proper keywords to join anything else. That strongly implies 'not taking up slots' means 'not affecting battleforged status,' since the rules prevent them from joining a detachment that's not battleforged.

The only other way to use them would be to start a Renegade Chapter with Servants of the Abyss to replace the <LEGION> keyword. But the only reason to do that is to use these units, which would be silly.

I plan on getting the blackstone fortress game, i think the models look cool personally. And even if you didnt want to run those guys as their data sheets many of them will work fine as a dtand in. Really, whats the difference between traitor guardsmen and cultists on the table? I know lots of people that use guard as cultits, little kitbashing and your done.

Though i would love an actual traitor guard codex. We got castodies out of no where at the beginning of the year, one can hope for next year.....

The only other way to use them would be to start a Renegade Chapter with Servants of the Abyss to replace the <LEGION> keyword. But the only reason to do that is to use these units, which would be silly.

Except you can't create a LEGION using a pre existing faction keyword.

Dactylartha wrote:

The only other way to use them would be to start a Renegade Chapter with Servants of the Abyss to replace the <LEGION> keyword. But the only reason to do that is to use these units, which would be silly.

Except you can't create a LEGION using a pre existing faction keyword.

Yeah, I was being generous to narrative players. That would not fly in matched play.

Huh. That raises more questions. Think we’ll have to proxy them as RAH for the foreseeable, then.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [51 PL, 808pts] ++

Legion: Black Legion

+ HQ +

Daemon Prince with Wings [9 PL, 180pts]: Intoxicating Elixir, Malefic talon, Slaanesh, Warlord

Sorcerer [6 PL, 98pts]: Bolt pistol, Force sword, No Chaos Mark

Hammerman - 102

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, No Chaos Mark
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, No Chaos Mark
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [9 PL, 84pts]: 20x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, No Chaos Mark
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Elites:

EL1: Rogue Psyker - 30
EL2: Rogue Psyker - 30
EL3: Rogue Psyker - 30

+ Heavy Support +

Defiler [11 PL, 171pts]: Combi-bolter, Defiler scourge, No Chaos Mark, Twin heavy bolter

Obliterators [10 PL, 195pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, 3x Obliterator

++ Total: 1000 ++

Have to test this! What do you think?