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Abaddon303 wrote:
Might pick up the Daemon codex and have a look. Waiting to see what's in the wrath and rapture box as my black legion is exclusively khorne and Slaanesh marked. I've not seen any reason to use the tzeentch or nurgle marks. If the box looks interesting and good value I'll get it otherwise I might just get the khorne starter set.

Unless I'm missing something, the only new models in W&R are Karanak, the Slaanesh Herald and the new Seekers. Most of the people who would want those already have the other models.

So I'm not sure who they are targeting with this. It's not a 'deal' buying stuff you already have.

Well the Abaddon303 seems to not have any of those so for example players like him ;-) Or players who want those new models NOW rather than wait for few months. Or players who want to expand.

You expecting all new models? That's not how these deals work. They always have old models that have already paid for their sprues and given profit and which aren't selling in huge quantities anymore(remember first few months of kit forms bulk of it's lifetime sales) so the plastic itself is essentially free, it doesn't result in huge loss of sales(those wouldn't be selling for huge quantities anyway so GW can afford to use sell them at discount) and makes players to invest bigger chunk than if they had just bought new models AND giving also at the same time discount for players.

End result: GW sells more big pricier boxes without hurting their sales by discounts all that much while getting players starting in new daemon armies or bulk up existing models.

It's win-win prospect for everybody. As it is if I wasn't neck deep in to-buy list for adeptus titanicus I might bolster up my fledging daemon force as well with this.

tneva82 wrote:
Well the Abaddon303 seems to not have any of those so for example players like him ;-) Or players who want those new models NOW rather than wait for few months. Or players who want to expand.

You expecting all new models? That's not how these deals work. They always have old models that have already paid for their sprues and given profit and which aren't selling in huge quantities anymore(remember first few months of kit forms bulk of it's lifetime sales) so the plastic itself is essentially free, it doesn't result in huge loss of sales(those wouldn't be selling for huge quantities anyway so GW can afford to use sell them at discount) and makes players to invest bigger chunk than if they had just bought new models AND giving also at the same time discount for players.

End result: GW sells more big pricier boxes without hurting their sales by discounts all that much while getting players starting in new daemon armies or bulk up existing models.

It's win-win prospect for everybody. As it is if I wasn't neck deep in to-buy list for adeptus titanicus I might bolster up my fledging daemon force as well with this.

No, I'm not expecting all new models.

But it would be nice to get the Herald and new Seekers as stand-alone kits instead of needing to buy a box.

And sure, there are some people who would like to get some Daemons for the first time. But there is a much larger pool of people who already have Daemon armies that would like to get the new models. The fact they would need to buy a box that's mostly stuff they already own is the problem.

So no, that's not a win-win. That's win-lose for most people. And probably a lose-lose, considering a lot of people will pass on this deal.

If nothing else, the models will be available separately on ebay. The cryptek from Forgebane is going for fifteen bucks, which is cheaper than what the blister would cost if GW was selling it.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
If nothing else, the models will be available separately on ebay. The cryptek from Forgebane is going for fifteen bucks, which is cheaper than what the blister would cost if GW was selling it.

Is that really fair to assume?

If people are buying the box to get started / bolster their existing forces, like you said - aren't they going to want to hold onto the HQs from each army? If anything, scarcity would drive the price up.

If people are buying boxes to get the new models, I would assume they would be selling off unneeded Bloodletters / Daemonettes. That drives the price of those units down. A glut could lead to people not being able to sell those models.

Either situation would be a lose-lose. Unless there's something more to it, like revised rules or something, this isn't much of a deal.

 techsoldaten wrote:

No, I'm not expecting all new models.

But it would be nice to get the Herald and new Seekers as stand-alone kits instead of needing to buy a box.

You will get them. LATER. Whole point is to get people buy first the more expensive box and spend more than they would have just by buying new models on their own. Forge bane. If you forget the old models no saving whatsoever. Ditto for speed freak. If you are only for new buggies it's bad deal.

It's more profit to do it this way than to release the individual boxes right away. Why you think they keep doing this pattern all the time? Because it gives them more profit. It also gives players discount box and with little wait individual boxes as well.

On your logic forge bane and speed freak box sets wouldn't sell either yet they both sell...So you have been proven wrong.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
If nothing else, the models will be available separately on ebay. The cryptek from Forgebane is going for fifteen bucks, which is cheaper than what the blister would cost if GW was selling it.

Is that really fair to assume?

If people are buying the box to get started / bolster their existing forces, like you said - aren't they going to want to hold onto the HQs from each army? If anything, scarcity would drive the price up.

If people are buying boxes to get the new models, I would assume they would be selling off unneeded Bloodletters / Daemonettes. That drives the price of those units down. A glut could lead to people not being able to sell those models.

Either situation would be a lose-lose. Unless there's something more to it, like revised rules or something, this isn't much of a deal.

You... are aware that people buy up these boxes specifically to sell the contents, right? You will definitely be able to find the new models on the open market.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
You... are aware that people buy up these boxes specifically to sell the contents, right? You will definitely be able to find the new models on the open market.

Yes, and the law of supply and demand still applies. For it to be a 'deal,' there would need an excess goods available to create downwards pricing pressure.

eBay sellers work to maximize profit. With a set like this, they won't face much competition from casual gamers looking to sell off models they have no use for. Also, the regular Daemon sprues will compete for sales with existing product, which creates a disincentive to actually break up the boxes. For example, how do you sell the Bloodletters from W&R without undercutting the price of a standard box of Bloodletters? Anyone who currently sells CDs see the smart move is not break up the W&R box to begin with.

While I'm sure it will be possible to purchase these models individually, supply will influence the cost. There are strong reasons to suspect initial supply will be low, thus the price on the new models will be high. Once the initial demand from people who really want the new models wanes, sellers will have a lot of excess inventory.

So I still don't see who they're targeting with this. Maybe the ideal consumer is a CSM player looking to add Bloodletter bomb detachments and curious about Slaanesh.

For one they are targeting me. I already own 30 deamonettes and 40 bloodletters, but i want more. Only model that i already own and don't need in that set is karanak. I am super excited for this box to come out. How often do they come out with a box where both sides are useable by a single player with no conversion needed?

Two points of order:

- the new minis in Wrath & Rapture are Karanak, Flesh Hounds, Herald of Slaanesh (or perhaps a new infantry hero?), Fiends of Slaanesh. The Seekers are the existing kit.

- this is a tactics thread, not a business studies workshop

Azuza001 wrote:
For one they are targeting me. I already own 30 deamonettes and 40 bloodletters, but i want more. Only model that i already own and don't need in that set is karanak. I am super excited for this box to come out. How often do they come out with a box where both sides are useable by a single player with no conversion needed?

Yeah you made that clear already. The fact you want W&R does not mean a lot of other people do.

Most people are either very hot or very cold on Daemons. The ones who really enjoy them already have complete armies and would only want the new models. The ones who don't won't buy this box.

While I am sure there's some middle ground that's clamoring for GW to take their money now, I'm also sure it's relatively small. Like, they could probably all fit on a single Econoliner to travel to Nebraska for the midnight launch party at a LGS (and probably would if they were promised 40k-themed snacks.) The rest of the people who would find this appealing are casual gamers with a desire to fill excess shelf space with models they will never use. They won't be lining up for pre-orders.

Don't take this the wrong way but you do not sound like someone who's in touch with the average Chaos player. You're talking about the virtue of models with no options. For a long time, a big part of the appeal of Chaos has been the limitless conversion options. Static, monopose plastic is not what drives people into the arms of the Dark Gods.

The points you make about both sides being usable are not going to drive people to rush out and get this. The appeal is the new models, only they are being packed in a way that comes with redundancy for most existing players. Which is why I still wonder who they are targeting with this release.

Since you don't want your Karanak, PM me when you get the box and let's do a trade. I want the inside track since there won't be many people out there like you.

Anyway, i picked up the Daemon codex today and have been reading through a bit. I'd heard about bloodletter bomb but having read the actual rules I can understand it's infamy! They might be glass cannons but my berserkers normally die pretty sharpish too so I'm not too worried about that. I like how you can deepstrike them rather than pay for a rhino and the shear number of them should be able to tie up a large chunk of an opponent's backline too.
So as far as army composition am I better going with a cultist battalion or a bloodletter battalion? I'm thinking I'll let the Daemon battalion handle the melee and my black legion will probably be the gunline. Sound sensible?

I'd like to pick up a 30k style Night Lords army because I love the looks of the FW night raptors.

Current plan for the first 1000pts is:

1 HQ (dont know yet, probably jump pack general with ld debuff trait)

about 20 Raptors. Probably MSU with Plasmaguns.

1 Leviathan with 2 Butcher Cannon Arrays

1 Contemptor with Close Combat arm and Butcher Cannon.


Could this work for a start? I know i'd instalose against things like orks or tyras but It'd be mostly a fluff/fun Project.

 techsoldaten wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
For one they are targeting me. I already own 30 deamonettes and 40 bloodletters, but i want more. Only model that i already own and don't need in that set is karanak. I am super excited for this box to come out. How often do they come out with a box where both sides are useable by a single player with no conversion needed?

Yeah you made that clear already. The fact you want W&R does not mean a lot of other people do.

Most people are either very hot or very cold on Daemons. The ones who really enjoy them already have complete armies and would only want the new models. The ones who don't won't buy this box.

While I am sure there's some middle ground that's clamoring for GW to take their money now, I'm also sure it's relatively small. Like, they could probably all fit on a single Econoliner to travel to Nebraska for the midnight launch party at a LGS (and probably would if they were promised 40k-themed snacks.) The rest of the people who would find this appealing are casual gamers with a desire to fill excess shelf space with models they will never use. They won't be lining up for pre-orders.

Don't take this the wrong way but you do not sound like someone who's in touch with the average Chaos player. You're talking about the virtue of models with no options. For a long time, a big part of the appeal of Chaos has been the limitless conversion options. Static, monopose plastic is not what drives people into the arms of the Dark Gods.

The points you make about both sides being usable are not going to drive people to rush out and get this. The appeal is the new models, only they are being packed in a way that comes with redundancy for most existing players. Which is why I still wonder who they are targeting with this release.

Since you don't want your Karanak, PM me when you get the box and let's do a trade. I want the inside track since there won't be many people out there like you.

Um... not to be a jerk or anything, but this is the first time i posted about wanting this box set. How did i make it clear already? I think you have me confused with one of the others you have been commenting about this lol.

My feelings are they are releasing it with rules for both 40k and age of sigmar (which is cool) and its value is terrific compared to any of the other battleforces that is coming out. If you see it like that its a good deal for any chaos player that wants to dip their toes into deamons, any deamon player that wanta reinforments, or anyone who is thinking of starting deamons.

But to be fair i can also see why some people wouldnt want this. I would have really preferred a full slaanesh battleforce with nosie marines and deamons in it.

As far as karanak goes and in the spirit of good faith sure, when this comes out pm me and we can figure out a trade, i am fine with that.

Morkphoiz wrote:
I'd like to pick up a 30k style Night Lords army because I love the looks of the FW night raptors.

Current plan for the first 1000pts is:

1 HQ (dont know yet, probably jump pack general with ld debuff trait)

about 20 Raptors. Probably MSU with Plasmaguns.

1 Leviathan with 2 Butcher Cannon Arrays

1 Contemptor with Close Combat arm and Butcher Cannon.


Could this work for a start? I know i'd instalose against things like orks or tyras but It'd be mostly a fluff/fun Project.

If it's for fun/fluff and you love the raptors then go for it! You should be able to get some units down -7ld between the NLs trait, Raptors and Icon of Nurgle rules and the Butcher Cannons. Even against Orks that can put the pain on units other than the 30 Boyz; I'm thinking units of nobz or any of the specialist mobs tend to be smaller. Tyranids is a bit different...

Only thing I'd say about raptors is that they really ain't that great in combat. So it might be useful having a second jump-pack lord just for better swings in combat, as your raptors are gonna want to get into combat to tag units to stop them shooting, and they might struggle to end the unit in the opponent's turn if they don't want to fall back. But not sure on fitting that into the 1000pts.

Also there is not really any anti-tank in there. Perhaps some meltas on some of the raptors? Might be good to have a sorcerer then to warptime them from your deployment zone into half melta range to increase likelihood of death to whatever tank you need dead turn one. But that unit of raptors WILL then die, so I'd be making sure they've tagged something else; get their points back by killing something then stopping something else from being killed by stopping shooting. Normal moves and warptime can jump over units; charge moves cannot now though following the last FAQ.

the.cobb wrote:

Morkphoiz wrote:
I'd like to pick up a 30k style Night Lords army because I love the looks of the FW night raptors.

Current plan for the first 1000pts is:

1 HQ (dont know yet, probably jump pack general with ld debuff trait)

about 20 Raptors. Probably MSU with Plasmaguns.

1 Leviathan with 2 Butcher Cannon Arrays

1 Contemptor with Close Combat arm and Butcher Cannon.


Could this work for a start? I know i'd instalose against things like orks or tyras but It'd be mostly a fluff/fun Project.

If it's for fun/fluff and you love the raptors then go for it! You should be able to get some units down -7ld between the NLs trait, Raptors and Icon of Nurgle rules and the Butcher Cannons. Even against Orks that can put the pain on units other than the 30 Boyz; I'm thinking units of nobz or any of the specialist mobs tend to be smaller. Tyranids is a bit different...

Only thing I'd say about raptors is that they really ain't that great in combat. So it might be useful having a second jump-pack lord just for better swings in combat, as your raptors are gonna want to get into combat to tag units to stop them shooting, and they might struggle to end the unit in the opponent's turn if they don't want to fall back. But not sure on fitting that into the 1000pts.

Also there is not really any anti-tank in there. Perhaps some meltas on some of the raptors? Might be good to have a sorcerer then to warptime them from your deployment zone into half melta range to increase likelihood of death to whatever tank you need dead turn one. But that unit of raptors WILL then die, so I'd be making sure they've tagged something else; get their points back by killing something then stopping something else from being killed by stopping shooting. Normal moves and warptime can jump over units; charge moves cannot now though following the last FAQ.

I don't know if you were implying that you can Warptime a unit that arrived from deepstrike but unfortunately you can't do this anymore since like 2 faq. And meltas are actually worst than rapid fire overcharged plasma, without even comparing the price, when you arrive from deepstrike (so within 12'' but more than 9'' )

the best raptor loadout is probably something like this, been a while since i've played my NL but : 5 man, 2 plasma gun, 1 champion with double plasma pistol. If you wanna go all in, you take 3, one lord with jump pack and claws of the black hunt for good measure since were playing fluffy, and you drop everything nearby a heavy infantry or small vehicule you want to kill, and possibly near a chaff unit you can charge to protect yourself the turn after. Raptor are somewhat weak in melee, so they shouldn't kill what they charged, so you can just trap a poor guy inside your circle of raptor and wait for next turn to move out and shoot something again, hopefully making your points back. It's fun as hell to play, so there's always that!

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
You... are aware that people buy up these boxes specifically to sell the contents, right? You will definitely be able to find the new models on the open market.

Yes, and the law of supply and demand still applies. For it to be a 'deal,' there would need an excess goods available to create downwards pricing pressure.

eBay sellers work to maximize profit. With a set like this, they won't face much competition from casual gamers looking to sell off models they have no use for. Also, the regular Daemon sprues will compete for sales with existing product, which creates a disincentive to actually break up the boxes. For example, how do you sell the Bloodletters from W&R without undercutting the price of a standard box of Bloodletters? Anyone who currently sells CDs see the smart move is not break up the W&R box to begin with.

While I'm sure it will be possible to purchase these models individually, supply will influence the cost. There are strong reasons to suspect initial supply will be low, thus the price on the new models will be high. Once the initial demand from people who really want the new models wanes, sellers will have a lot of excess inventory.

So I still don't see who they're targeting with this. Maybe the ideal consumer is a CSM player looking to add Bloodletter bomb detachments and curious about Slaanesh.

You still havent' explained how forgebane and speed freak, both which absolutely SUCK in terms of value if you want only new models, sell if the old models are so irrelevant...Yet both sold as was evident by amount of warglaives out there before they came on their own(and before codex even came!) or shokk speed dragstas out there.

The method provenly WORKS for GW. Mucha mucha sales, mucha mucha profits. The whole point of it is to sell boxes at higher price than new models individually while providing the discount with old models and have this before the individual boxes come out to ensure they sell more of these big boxes than they would have if the individual boxes would come first or same time. And it...works. It's been shown over and over and over again. You don't even need new models really to sell discount boxes like these. New space marine commander and ork warboss aren't exactly new uber models everybody is glamouring for right? But add in discount and hey presto it sells.

tneva82 wrote:
You still havent' explained how forgebane and speed freak, both which absolutely SUCK in terms of value if you want only new models, sell if the old models are so irrelevant...Yet both sold as was evident by amount of warglaives out there before they came on their own(and before codex even came!) or shokk speed dragstas out there.

We were discussing Wrath and Rapture. Please forgive the omissions, I was unaware having an opinion also obligated me to explain the marketing plan for every boxed set ever produced by GW...

tneva82 wrote:
The method provenly WORKS for GW. Mucha mucha sales, mucha mucha profits. The whole point of it is to sell boxes at higher price than new models individually while providing the discount with old models and have this before the individual boxes come out to ensure they sell more of these big boxes than they would have if the individual boxes would come first or same time. And it...works. It's been shown over and over and over again. You don't even need new models really to sell discount boxes like these. New space marine commander and ork warboss aren't exactly new uber models everybody is glamouring for right? But add in discount and hey presto it sells.

I think you are saying each boxed set GW has ever released has resulted in outstanding financial success at mucha mucha levels. I think you are also saying discounts are why people buy models, any other concerns are secondary.

That's a fascinating hypothesis and I look forward to seeing how it plays out with W&R. Who could argue with all that proven mucha?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azuza001 wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
For one they are targeting me. I already own 30 deamonettes and 40 bloodletters, but i want more. Only model that i already own and don't need in that set is karanak. I am super excited for this box to come out. How often do they come out with a box where both sides are useable by a single player with no conversion needed?

Yeah you made that clear already. The fact you want W&R does not mean a lot of other people do.

Most people are either very hot or very cold on Daemons. The ones who really enjoy them already have complete armies and would only want the new models. The ones who don't won't buy this box.

While I am sure there's some middle ground that's clamoring for GW to take their money now, I'm also sure it's relatively small. Like, they could probably all fit on a single Econoliner to travel to Nebraska for the midnight launch party at a LGS (and probably would if they were promised 40k-themed snacks.) The rest of the people who would find this appealing are casual gamers with a desire to fill excess shelf space with models they will never use. They won't be lining up for pre-orders.

Don't take this the wrong way but you do not sound like someone who's in touch with the average Chaos player. You're talking about the virtue of models with no options. For a long time, a big part of the appeal of Chaos has been the limitless conversion options. Static, monopose plastic is not what drives people into the arms of the Dark Gods.

The points you make about both sides being usable are not going to drive people to rush out and get this. The appeal is the new models, only they are being packed in a way that comes with redundancy for most existing players. Which is why I still wonder who they are targeting with this release.

Since you don't want your Karanak, PM me when you get the box and let's do a trade. I want the inside track since there won't be many people out there like you.

Um... not to be a jerk or anything, but this is the first time i posted about wanting this box set. How did i make it clear already? I think you have me confused with one of the others you have been commenting about this lol.

You got me! Totally guilty.

Azuza001 wrote:
My feelings are they are releasing it with rules for both 40k and age of sigmar (which is cool) and its value is terrific compared to any of the other battleforces that is coming out. If you see it like that its a good deal for any chaos player that wants to dip their toes into deamons, any deamon player that wanta reinforments, or anyone who is thinking of starting deamons.

But to be fair i can also see why some people wouldnt want this. I would have really preferred a full slaanesh battleforce with nosie marines and deamons in it.

As far as karanak goes and in the spirit of good faith sure, when this comes out pm me and we can figure out a trade, i am fine with that.

That's reasonable and I will definitely take you up on it.

Something I hadn't considered is that W&R would be more appealing to AOS players, especially new ones who just got into the hobby. I appreciate you for pointing that out.

VoidSempai wrote:


I don't know if you were implying that you can Warptime a unit that arrived from deepstrike but unfortunately you can't do this anymore since like 2 faq. And meltas are actually worst than rapid fire overcharged plasma, without even comparing the price, when you arrive from deepstrike (so within 12'' but more than 9'' )

the best raptor loadout is probably something like this, been a while since i've played my NL but : 5 man, 2 plasma gun, 1 champion with double plasma pistol. If you wanna go all in, you take 3, one lord with jump pack and claws of the black hunt for good measure since were playing fluffy, and you drop everything nearby a heavy infantry or small vehicule you want to kill, and possibly near a chaff unit you can charge to protect yourself the turn after. Raptor are somewhat weak in melee, so they shouldn't kill what they charged, so you can just trap a poor guy inside your circle of raptor and wait for next turn to move out and shoot something again, hopefully making your points back. It's fun as hell to play, so there's always that!

I feel like I touched on the warptime and the not deep striking? I mean I wasnt brutally explicit but I was assuming people have read a bit of this thread as that is covered A LOT. But maybe only weirdos like me have actually read this entire thing. What can I say, I had a long train commute for most of 8th...

I acknowledge plasma is better generally speaking but if there are 20 raptors and nothing vaguely anti-tank aside from plasma I thought it might be nice to have something that does more than 2damage a shot. 3 melts hits at half range are better than three rapid-fire plasma guns at the same range against high T targets I'm pretty sure; I think I've seen mathammer of that somewhere. It's literally the only time it is better though. Have them start on the board and hopefully warptime them into range of something worth meltaing. And then charge something else.

And yes the bit about them leaving the fight in their turn! I forgot about the benifits of the Fly keyword!

One potential quandary with them and the morale debuff stacking so much might be that units might melt in the Night Lords turn. I guess that comes down to picking targets though, for the whole army to get the debuff where it needs to be and raptors where they need to be also..

the.cobb wrote:

VoidSempai wrote:


I don't know if you were implying that you can Warptime a unit that arrived from deepstrike but unfortunately you can't do this anymore since like 2 faq. And meltas are actually worst than rapid fire overcharged plasma, without even comparing the price, when you arrive from deepstrike (so within 12'' but more than 9'' )

the best raptor loadout is probably something like this, been a while since i've played my NL but : 5 man, 2 plasma gun, 1 champion with double plasma pistol. If you wanna go all in, you take 3, one lord with jump pack and claws of the black hunt for good measure since were playing fluffy, and you drop everything nearby a heavy infantry or small vehicule you want to kill, and possibly near a chaff unit you can charge to protect yourself the turn after. Raptor are somewhat weak in melee, so they shouldn't kill what they charged, so you can just trap a poor guy inside your circle of raptor and wait for next turn to move out and shoot something again, hopefully making your points back. It's fun as hell to play, so there's always that!

I feel like I touched on the warptime and the not deep striking? I mean I wasnt brutally explicit but I was assuming people have read a bit of this thread as that is covered A LOT. But maybe only weirdos like me have actually read this entire thing. What can I say, I had a long train commute for most of 8th...

I acknowledge plasma is better generally speaking but if there are 20 raptors and nothing vaguely anti-tank aside from plasma I thought it might be nice to have something that does more than 2damage a shot. 3 melts hits at half range are better than three rapid-fire plasma guns at the same range against high T targets I'm pretty sure; I think I've seen mathammer of that somewhere. It's literally the only time it is better though. Have them start on the board and hopefully warptime them into range of something worth meltaing. And then charge something else.

And yes the bit about them leaving the fight in their turn! I forgot about the benifits of the Fly keyword!

One potential quandary with them and the morale debuff stacking so much might be that units might melt in the Night Lords turn. I guess that comes down to picking targets though, for the whole army to get the debuff where it needs to be and raptors where they need to be also..

3 Melta Guns are also more expensive than 3 Plasma Guns. That's 51 points vs 39 (which basically means another Plasma Gun). Skip the Melta until we see if Chapter Approved understands we don't want to pay 17 points for a single shot.

Im running a 2k list of World Eaters paired with another faction but i cant decide which. The main list is 2 zerker buses, some cultists and a lord of skulls, but im wondering what I should add for the last 600-ish points. I got two ideas

Khorne daemons battalion for a bloodletter bomb and skullreaver DP (facing a list with knights and primaris)

Or a Tsons battalion with a couple rubric MSUs, cultists, two sorcerers and ahriman, in the hopes of juicing up my lord of skulls to be a first turn mega-charge, and toss out smites as the game progresses.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Im running a 2k list of World Eaters paired with another faction but i cant decide which. The main list is 2 zerker buses, some cultists and a lord of skulls, but im wondering what I should add for the last 600-ish points. I got two ideas

Khorne daemons battalion for a bloodletter bomb and skullreaver DP (facing a list with knights and primaris)

Or a Tsons battalion with a couple rubric MSUs, cultists, two sorcerers and ahriman, in the hopes of juicing up my lord of skulls to be a first turn mega-charge, and toss out smites as the game progresses.

Hmm, it seems that you could profit from some long range support. I guess psyker support would be also something good, but not particulary fluffy for a WE list.

You could always build a R&H Spearhead/ Battalion out of 600 pts, which could include up to 3 basilisks for long range anti everything
(infact a spearhead out of 3 Basilisks and a commander would cost you 349 pts)
You could add in a commander for 25 pts as a second HQ and then add 3x10 R&H cultists for another 120 pts (which will probably not go up in price) for 494 pts. add in another hellhound maybee? or more bodies?

Other then that, maybee a Renegade knight? Amirigers are quite cheap, so why not?

Im building out of what i own, and i own zero Renegades, an all melee knight and a single armiger.

But good suggestions!

If those are the only 2 options you have the i say khorne.

A bloodletter bomb near a dp for rerolls can really put the hurt on anything, especially with the attack again stratagem. Add to that the lord of skulls is a deamon of khorne so you can reroll failed charges if near the deamon prince and the deamon prince himself can totally wreck a knight with the right artifact you have a serious t2 assault set up easy. The down side is t1 that lord of skulls is going to be targeted hard and probably die. But that should buy your beserkers time and cover to also get into position.

Also.. its the fluffy choice if that matters at all.

Too bad you dont have any skull cannons. They are pretty nice in a deamon army.

I do have skull cannons, but between the LoS, DP, Letter bomb and zerker buses, I really dont have many points left to spare.

I run bloodletter bombs and t sons together. Super nasty with ahriman casting death hex with cabalistic focus on whatever your skullreaver prince or bloodletter bombs are hitting

Any rumors to what Chapter Approved 2018 is changing for Chaos Space Marines?

 vaklor4 wrote:
Im running a 2k list of World Eaters paired with another faction but i cant decide which. The main list is 2 zerker buses, some cultists and a lord of skulls, but im wondering what I should add for the last 600-ish points. I got two ideas

Khorne daemons battalion for a bloodletter bomb and skullreaver DP (facing a list with knights and primaris)

Or a Tsons battalion with a couple rubric MSUs, cultists, two sorcerers and ahriman, in the hopes of juicing up my lord of skulls to be a first turn mega-charge, and toss out smites as the game progresses.

My opinion is that you need something that can clear chaff. Berzerkers are a glass cannon. Everything they touch melts, but they get one good melee hit in (assuming they don't get shot off the board before that good hit because they were in their Rhinos). But after that good melee hit, any player worth their salt would shoot them off the board (or counter charge them with something that can wipe them out). So, the last thing you want is for your Zerkers to charge into a screen of cheap infantry. The same goes for your lord of skulls. Like any super heavy, it can be blocked with just one lone suicidal model standing in front of it.

Ok, maybe if you are facing knights and primaris, its less of an issue. (Probably unlikely to face any screen). But is this a tailor made army against knights and primaris or a more generic take all comers list.

If its a take all comers list, I would suggest having stuff that can help clear chaff. So, some shooting would be good. In any case, if you are facing knights, it may be a challenge to rely on just melee to kill off knights. They have T8 and so many wounds, and if you charge a few units into a few knights, they can use CP to interrupt and delete a whole squad of zerkers.

A slanaash detachment with a havocs squad with heavy bolters led by a sorceror is a consideration. Thats 12 shots that can be boosted to 24 shots with cacophany. Plus the sorceror can cast warptime on that Lord of skulls for a possible turn 1 charge into enemy lines. Huge distraction for your opponent.

I feel that blood letter bomb sort of interferes with zerkers. Both are a turn 2 charge. They might get in the way of each other.

If the leaks are correct, chaos terminators are now 23 points base. Which means they are just 29 points with a combi bolter and a power sword. Thats pretty decent.

And Chaos LR are 60 points cheaper now. I kinda like the idea of 3 LRs packed with 6 squads of 30 zerkers. That's a lot of shooting, plus well protected transport for the deadliest melee marines we have.

Yea, I'm pretty psyked for the LR and twin las drop since I use them in my Death Guard lists (since they lack ranged AT).

And if the rumors of +2 to cover saves replacing -1 to hit for AL (and the like) are true, my Oblits just saved points on fielding the Gnarlmaw tree.

Which is also a Bummer bc I have yet to actually field mine yet!