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demontalons wrote:
My only issue with warptalons is that they only have 2 attacks each, unless you bring 10 its not enough to justify their points cost in my opinion.

The Warp Talon actually get +2 attacks for their lightning claws due to RAW on their datasheet saying they get 1 attack with this weapon when they fight, so each of their claws gives them an additional attack.

Does Chaos have anything like the Imperium Assassins?

Chaos lords with jump packs and a chainfist/chainsword are fantastic assassin characters.

 andysonic1 wrote:

demontalons wrote:
My only issue with warptalons is that they only have 2 attacks each, unless you bring 10 its not enough to justify their points cost in my opinion.

The Warp Talon actually get +2 attacks for their lightning claws due to RAW on their datasheet saying they get 1 attack with this weapon when they fight, so each of their claws gives them an additional attack.

I'm honestly not sure its not RAI as well.
Gives a purpose of holding two claws over one.

demontalons wrote:
My only issue with warptalons is that they only have 2 attacks each, unless you bring 10 its not enough to justify their points cost in my opinion.

With Rhinos do you reccommend the combimelta or go full horde killer and go for the extra combi bolter and havoc giving you 4 str 4 and d6 str 5 at 24-12 and 8 str 4 and d6str 5 at 12-0.

Also if you want nasty prescience and noise marines go together beautifully, a 10 man squad will put out 30 str 4 shots a turn at 2+ and if there is a Lord or DP nearby thats a rerollable 2+, against str 4 youre averaging 14/15 wounds, and if someone does kill them they get ynnari lite and make an immediate shooting attack.

Currently, RAW, Warp Talons get 3 attacks each, 4 on the champion. Read how the Lightning Claw Rule is written differently in their unit profile to the standard wording. Not sure if this is a mistake, but I'm gonna exploit it for the time being haha.

I liked the Combi Melta, because it also lets you scoot around and try to snipe a character who may have wandered away from the safety of other units, and it's an actual threat to big guys when you have multiple Rhinos circling him with Melta death,

So, do chaos marks on chaos space marines (troop choice) do anything?

I was reading through Index: Chaos and I couldn't see a cost or effect of it besides the whole buffing your own god's followers bit.

 Kajaki War Pig wrote:

demontalons wrote:
My only issue with warptalons is that they only have 2 attacks each, unless you bring 10 its not enough to justify their points cost in my opinion.

With Rhinos do you reccommend the combimelta or go full horde killer and go for the extra combi bolter and havoc giving you 4 str 4 and d6 str 5 at 24-12 and 8 str 4 and d6str 5 at 12-0.

Also if you want nasty prescience and noise marines go together beautifully, a 10 man squad will put out 30 str 4 shots a turn at 2+ and if there is a Lord or DP nearby thats a rerollable 2+, against str 4 youre averaging 14/15 wounds, and if someone does kill them they get ynnari lite and make an immediate shooting attack.

Currently, RAW, Warp Talons get 3 attacks each, 4 on the champion. Read how the Lightning Claw Rule is written differently in their unit profile to the standard wording. Not sure if this is a mistake, but I'm gonna exploit it for the time being haha.

I liked the Combi Melta, because it also lets you scoot around and try to snipe a character who may have wandered away from the safety of other units, and it's an actual threat to big guys when you have multiple Rhinos circling him with Melta death,

Read the lightning claw entry in the chaos war gear section. It's different from the warp talons entry. In fact, all other instances of lightning claw are different from it. They get 2 attacks.

the_trooper wrote:
So, do chaos marks on chaos space marines (troop choice) do anything?

I was reading through Index: Chaos and I couldn't see a cost or effect of it besides the whole buffing your own god's followers bit.

Only point I can see to taking a Mark is to buy an Icon.

craggy wrote:

the_trooper wrote:
So, do chaos marks on chaos space marines (troop choice) do anything?

I was reading through Index: Chaos and I couldn't see a cost or effect of it besides the whole buffing your own god's followers bit.

Only point I can see to taking a Mark is to buy an Icon.

Thanks. There's a lot for me to unlearn and learn with this edition.

So shooty CSM. Is it even possible or worth it? I feel like the loyalists do shooty better than we do, which makes my iron warriors sad. They've been mostly gathering dust this edition .

Boogles wrote:
So shoots CSM. Is it even possible or worth it? I feel like the loyalists do shooty better than we do, which makes my iron warriors sad. They've been mostly gathering dust this edition .

Honestly, I don't know.

I've played a few games against DA trying to play a Death Guard army, and I just get shot to death. I am learning on how to better utilize my units, and fine tuning my tactics.

I really think you've got to make a TAC list, with units set up to fulfill certain rolls. I expect as the meta settles, we'll see the same units over and over and Chaos lists will change to reflect that.

I currently think a Predator is a must have. Autocannons are nasty. Lascannons as well. I'm 50/50 on taking a Vindicator to accompany it. The Vindicator should mop up terminator squads and multi wound squads pretty quickly.

Deep Striking Terminator squads with a Librarian or whatever are going to be commonplace for a while. So deploying spread out and keeping your nice stuff bubble wrapped with fodder is going to be critical. Deployment in general seems like a much more important aspect of this game. Learning your opponents list and knowing what units you have to deal with their threats is going to be a critical part of the game now.

I think you can make a shooty list but it has to be made with Abbadon. I havent played in a while (7th) but to me i think chaos has a lot of viable builds by shooting is probably not as effective. I think Abbadon, havocs and predator spam is really good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think we are really good at cqc shooting and combat. The list im looking at right now is 6 units of thousand sons in rhinos (half with warpflamers) 3 exalted sorcerers on discs, one helbrute and sehkmet termies for 2000 pts

I think virtually any build is viable right now, but shooty certainly isn't gonna outshoot some of the armies that are out there. I really agree with Wingeds, a TAC list is going to be the future of tournament play with Chaos.

I'm loving the predator with 4 lascannons. Serious threat to anything big on the field, and it draws some fire.

I like the looks of a Maulerfiend with Lasher tendrils, as he can pop vehicles or infantry in close combat pretty handily, and he's pretty fast.

After FW released their Chaos index I felt obliged to test new Warhound titan. During 7 edition it has rusted on my shelve.
When I first saw the price tag of 1500 points I was like WOW

I was very sceptial so the test game was conducted at 2500 points to add some meat to the army.

The list I used:


The photo of the army and the table (Magnus fell and broke so was proxied by BLOODTHIRSTER for extra heresy):


The army I fought against consisted of Guilliman (proxied by GUO lol ), two assault cannon razobacks, tiple las predator, 4 x las devastators, 4 x HB devastators, three units of scouts with rifles, Telion (sic!), two assassins (culexxus and vindicar), caestus assault flyer with 4 x multi melta devastators and a big biker squad with grav guns.
The mission was Deadlock from Maelstrom.
The deployment was #1 Spearhead assault. I put Titan in the back other units were deployed near the spearhead.
Opponent done the same despite obviously having more units to deploy, I asked why he isn't afraid of my magnus charging his whole army?
Well, the answer was provided in form of sucessful seize initiative roll, albeit reroll required to get "6".

I tried to give up (Nurgle forgive my lack of faith ) but opponent insisted that we must play.
His caestus flew near my titan, but missed all his melta shots. Missiles from it didn't go throught void shields.


His other army split shots between 30 plaguebearers and magnus. Vindicar missed his shot (even with reroll), culexux coulnd't wound Magnus, razobacks wasted assault cannons on plaguebearers...
When he realized he wasn't going to kill him, it was too late. Last hope was three hunter-killer missiles, but alas T7 and 4++ save protected him.
Magnus survived in 1 wound and after leadership test 11 plague bearers survived. Yay

My army rushed forward:


Titan obliterated Caestus with plasma cannon and scratched predator dealing 4 damage with bolter.
Magnus warp timed closer to the enemy, crushed one squad of devastators with smite (7 mortal wounds), buffed himself with prescience and charged scounts piling in so he can strike "Guilleman".
Meanwhile Typhus teleported behind enemy lines and smited 1 scout, rolled 12 on charge and moved so he can strike land speeder (which he did).
Unfortunately Roboutte's 3++ save was impregnable and Guilleman survived with 3W left and of course killed Magnus easily.

Next turn opponent killed all my infantry except 20 Poxwalkers who moved back to charge devastators from caestus.
After one more turn opponent surrendered after I killed predator and devastators with multi meltas.


With no efficient means to kill titan i would just kill one-two units per turn.


TL DR Titan proved to be VERY good versus jack of all trade list without massive infantry screen.
I think FW should price him at 1000 points max to make him viable for regular 2k games, but starting from 2500-3000 points he is worth considering if you play in vehicle/monster heavy environement.
Another observation is that poxwalkers are much more resilient due to lack of morale checks I lost almost as much plaguebearers from morale as from shooting.

My warhound which I picked up second hand just before 8th unfortunately has duel turbo lasers which don't seem that good anymore.

Good to see it preformed well, I like that the hurricane bolter is actually a legitimate choice of weapon now, I'm really tempted to try the titan flamer (luckily the titan is magnetized but there is noway I can replicate the paint job it has )

the_trooper wrote:
So, do chaos marks on chaos space marines (troop choice) do anything?

I was reading through Index: Chaos and I couldn't see a cost or effect of it besides the whole buffing your own god's followers bit.

Marks decide what daemon faction a unit belongs to, and therefore what HQ's it can synergize with. For example, a Warp Talon with <Mark of Tzeentch> is considered a Tzeentch Daemon and benefits from a Herald of Tzeentch's strength bonus.

 Rydria wrote:
My warhound which I picked up second hand just before 8th unfortunately has duel turbo lasers which don't seem that good anymore.

Good to see it preformed well, I like that the hurricane bolter is actually a legitimate choice of weapon now, I'm really tempted to try the titan flamer (luckily the titan is magnetized but there is noway I can replicate the paint job it has )

Nonono-no. Bolter is NOT a good choice.
Twin Plasma is THE choice.

I just have standart chaos warhound kit as was sold by FW.
Even though bolter can overwatch and better at killing SOME units 20 x S6 AP-2 shots cannot be justified by warhound's price tag.
Take two plasma and pray opponent brings something with Titanic or Building keyword.

Flamers are nice but counter intuitive. IMHO warhound shall stay as far as possible from the front line.

Lessons from my recent game against a Space Marine Parking Lot:

1) Malefic Lords are really good. Just running a pack of them into the enemy and blasting with smites will easily earn their points back.

2) Assault is terrible if your opponent deploys properly and I'm not really sure what to do about it. TAC Marine screens ensured my assault Leviathans did basically nothing of value despite charging in with Warptime (I would have cast it on Magnus but he died to the turn 1 volley). This game turned me off of assaults to the point I'm just building a full shooting list with Aetaos and a Renegade Knight Castigator.

Arachnofiend wrote:
Lessons from my recent game against a Space Marine Parking Lot:

1) Malefic Lords are really good. Just running a pack of them into the enemy and blasting with smites will easily earn their points back.

2) Assault is terrible if your opponent deploys properly and I'm not really sure what to do about it. TAC Marine screens ensured my assault Leviathans did basically nothing of value despite charging in with Warptime (I would have cast it on Magnus but he died to the turn 1 volley). This game turned me off of assaults to the point I'm just building a full shooting list with Aetaos and a Renegade Knight Castigator.

You need to shoot the screens away before you charge whatever they are protecting. Two Leviathans should easily have enough firepower to destroy most screens. If you need to just keep them out of LOS and have them charge in a bit later.

How would you deal with screens in a non-forgeworld list? Noise Marines? Plasma Havocs? Massed autogun cultists? They all seem pretty mediocre, but I can't find anything better.

Or maybe taking more Berzerkers would work? Charging the screen to kill it in one turn with a small part of the army, then charging the real targets with the rest of the army in the next turn?

Taking the right Chaos Mark is very important.

By taking, say, MON on my Warp Talons.

It means they become Nurgle Daemons. (In terms of keywords at least)
Which fulfills the requirements for disgusting resilience special rule.
Meaning, my MoN Warp Talons become resilient. 3+, 5++ (disgusting resilience), also benefiting from +1s from Nurgle Heralds.


On another note, I see people talking about Malefic Lords. Are these FW models?
I can't see them in the I.




Anyway, onto a separate topic.

So far, I've played quite a few games. Against most armies I am fine and I find the game to be rather fair.

However, I have a Tau opponent who tables everyone.
I've played a game with him this edition where I didn't even get a turn. He shot me off the table in his first turn.

Admittedly he got some lucky rolls. But still...

Any ideas? He runs mainly suits, stealth, commanders and some ghost keels.

C

mcsheehy wrote:
Taking the right Chaos Mark is very important.

By taking, say, MON on my Warp Talons.

It means they become Nurgle Daemons. (In terms of keywords at least)
Which fulfills the requirements for disgusting resilience special rule.
Meaning, my MoN Warp Talons become resilient. 3+, 5++ (disgusting resilience), also benefiting from +1s from Nurgle Heralds.

That doesn't actually work that way.

Unless they have Disgustingly Resilient on their datasheet or it specifically mentions they gain it (like the Daemon's Daemon Prince does) then they are just unit with the Nurgle and Daemon keywords, not Nurgle Daemons. Being a Nurgle Daemon doesn't grant Disgustingly Resilient, only units with the ability have it. It states "with this ability", and Warp Talons don't have that ability listed.

They do however get +1 Strength from Heralds of Nurgle and count for Epidemius' tally rule.

I haven't played in a LONG time, but 8th edition has already got me hooked again. Had to make a new account to share!

I'm coming from a Thousand Sons/ Tzeench point of view but I have had a lot of success thus far (only 1 game out of 5 has even been close.) These are some of my takeaways from my games so far.

1) Magnus is a beast. He is currently being sidelined until people in my gaming group have a stronger grasp on 8th as his maneuverability, survivability, relatively easy access to 2d6 mortal wounds (on an 8!) plus his melee power has been too much.
2) Brimstone horror units are the truth. I usually bring several units of 9 brimstone horrors with a blue horror (so they don't blow themselves up with smite.) For such a little point investment you get a very respectable speed bump with a 4++ and the potential to get off smites, even after they leave combat which they will do so you can shoot into the unit. I use them to bubblewrap everything or block off deep strike areas.
3) Rubric Marines are fantastic (just not against gene stealers!) A full 20 man unit with prescience and a daemon prince can do some work hitting on 2s and retooling 1s. Having an effective 2+ save vs 1 dmg weapons (or 1+ in cover) is fantastic, as is ignoring the moving penalty to heavy weapons. Forcing people to decide between using their multi damage weaponry against 1 wound models or against your big stuff is great.
4) CSM Daemon Prince's buff of reroll 1s works for both your chapter and the daemons of that chapter's type, which works great.
5) The Changeling is insanely good. Makes my brimstone bubbles annoying as hell, plus works on my tzeench daemon engines (-2 to hit that defiler that popped smoke)
6) Heldrake is good with friends. Very survivable but needs help with damage output. Had him and a flying daemon prince put the hurt on a flank last weekend.

edit:
7) Forgot to add that I do my aspiring sorcerers last and only if i haven't used my command reroll/ have command points, because if they perils they will die, and so will a lot of other things.
8) Also, I'm a fan of a unit of rubes with an aspiring sorcerer, 7 flamers and 2 bolsters (to die first). Surprisingly quick being able to freely advance and those flamers will make people pick up units and deter almost anything from charging unless they have that gene stealer cult power that denies overwatch.
Those are the things that came to mind and I thought I'd share.

Loopstah wrote:
They do however get +1 Strength from Heralds of Nurgle and count for Epidemius' tally rule.

Tzeentch ones also get the -1 to be hit from the changling.
A nearby Tzeentch herald can also cast 'boon of change on them'. It's a tasty little bonus.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
They do however get +1 Strength from Heralds of Nurgle and count for Epidemius' tally rule.

Tzeentch ones also get the -1 to be hit from the changling.
A nearby Tzeentch herald can also cast 'boon of change on them'. It's a tasty little bonus.

You cannot as they do not have the same faction keywords....

 sfshilo wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
They do however get +1 Strength from Heralds of Nurgle and count for Epidemius' tally rule.

Tzeentch ones also get the -1 to be hit from the changling.
A nearby Tzeentch herald can also cast 'boon of change on them'. It's a tasty little bonus.

You cannot as they do not have the same faction keywords....

Faction keywords are just normal keywords that are also used when building the army. They work just like non-faction keywords in battle.

 skybax wrote:
How would you deal with screens in a non-forgeworld list? Noise Marines? Plasma Havocs? Massed autogun cultists? They all seem pretty mediocre, but I can't find anything better.

I would rather turn to fw for this, using quad heavy bolter rapiers, or renegade & heretic quad heavy launchers, or leviathans, or deredeos, or a fire raptor, or the like. But if you're sticking to just gw csm options, heavy bolter havocs & autocannon/heavy bolter predators aren't terrible for this job.

A couple quint flamer havoc squads in a rhino or land raider can also get the job done, but it takes them a turn to get into position, so they van only clear screens for a turn two charge, and if you go second and lose your transport turn one they're kind of sol.

 sfshilo wrote:
You cannot as they do not have the same faction keywords....

As was mentioned earlier, they share the same keywords due to the way <Mark of Chaos> reads.
Go check it out. You will see.

Hey,

I obviously didn't read the ruling properly. I didn't see the "with this rule" part.

Has anyone considered Fallen in Rhinos? Fallen are really cheap at 14 points. Take a faction called Fallen (take vanguard detachment) with Cypher as the hero. Stuff them all into Rhinos and drive forward.

I am actually liking plasma pistols more than plasma or melta guns because plasma pistols are really cheap. (7 points). A fallen with a plasma pistol still has 2 attacks melee and costs only 21 points. You can overcharge him and not feel a pinch even if he dies.

And you can take a LOT of plasma pistols in one squad of fallen. Imagine taking a few squads in a vangaurd detachment. hehe. dozens of plasma shots. And the pistols shoot even when they are locked in close combat!

Think GW kinda FAQ'd it so you can't use the <legion> etc placeholder keywords to match up another keyword.