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Eldenfirefly wrote:Has anyone tried? Stuff like 49 Berserkers and Kharn into 5 Rhinos and then charge it up the board. The champions can be equipped with power fists, which would give them 6 Str 10 attacks. (because they attack twice). Ok, if you are using 49 zerkers in 5 Rhinos, you will likely be using battalion. So, then need two heroes. So, 48 zerkers, 1 dark apostle, Kharn, all stuffed into 5 Rhinos and then charge it up the field. (Apostle will make zerkers absolutely sick in close combat). lol

As sweet as it looks, wouldn't this list auto lose to flyer spam? You can't hit them, they can hit you, and they're more mobile.

Rydria wrote:Why do possessed still have to be the worst unit in chaos army have they ever been good, because they where aweful in 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th.

They were good in the first Dawn of War!

Yes, sadly. It would die to flyer spam. But wouldn't that be the case for most Hoard type armies? But isn't a flyer spam list also a very specific type of army that has its own hard counter as well? For that matter, flyers can't capture objectives right?

If you get a mission like relic and you use an all flyer list, you would be in trouble. I guess if such a list ran into an all flyer list, then the only thing to do would be to play objectives and stay in cover so that your 3+ save becomes a 2+ save.

Just put the Contemptor behind LOS blocking terrain if you go second. In the first turn cast Warp Time and then you are golden.

Possessed are actually good now. They have almost identical stats as Chosen w Axes and have their Daemon invuln and keyword.

 skybax wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:Has anyone tried? Stuff like 49 Berserkers and Kharn into 5 Rhinos and then charge it up the board. The champions can be equipped with power fists, which would give them 6 Str 10 attacks. (because they attack twice). Ok, if you are using 49 zerkers in 5 Rhinos, you will likely be using battalion. So, then need two heroes. So, 48 zerkers, 1 dark apostle, Kharn, all stuffed into 5 Rhinos and then charge it up the field. (Apostle will make zerkers absolutely sick in close combat). lol

As sweet as it looks, wouldn't this list auto lose to flyer spam? You can't hit them, they can hit you, and they're more mobile.

Rydria wrote:Why do possessed still have to be the worst unit in chaos army have they ever been good, because they where aweful in 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th.

They were good in the first Dawn of War!

I consider storm eagles a viable option as they can transport your berzerkers and hand out some pain to flyers (I would arm my storm eagles appropriately)

Death guard and Chaos Marines confirmed as separate codexs on warhammerr community. Both coming soon.

Please GW give me good legion rules. Don't take it all away.

But real talk - this storm eagle....it's pretty legit as a transport. And the fire raptor is ridiculous as a gun platform.

Let's do the fire raptor first:

Has evil machine spirit

Pumps out 24 shots at str 5 rend -1
Pumps out 10 shots at str 6 rend -2 dmg 2
Pumps out 4 lascannon shots

WHAT!

Compare that to the Storm Eagle

Has evil machine spirit
Can transport 20 zerkers (let's be real it's 19 + Kharn)

Pumps out 2d6 str 5 rend -1 shots
Pumps out 2 multi melta shots
Pumps out 4 lascannon shots

I mean....like I don't really do flyers but I'm about ready to do 1 of each of these bad boys. They look SICK

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Death guard and Chaos Marines confirmed as separate codexs on warhammerr community. Both coming soon.

Please GW give me good legion rules. Don't take it all away.

But all of these will have heretic astartes as well as chaos keyword right? If we wanted, we could take a CSM detachment and a Death Guard detachment in our army and it would still be fine right? I don't think we are losing anything... unless they nerf some units. :(

 luke1705 wrote:
But real talk - this storm eagle....it's pretty legit as a transport. And the fire raptor is ridiculous as a gun platform.

Let's do the fire raptor first:

Has evil machine spirit

Pumps out 24 shots at str 5 rend -1
Pumps out 10 shots at str 6 rend -2 dmg 2
Pumps out 4 lascannon shots

WHAT!

Compare that to the Storm Eagle

Has evil machine spirit
Can transport 20 zerkers (let's be real it's 19 + Kharn)

Pumps out 2d6 str 5 rend -1 shots
Pumps out 2 multi melta shots
Pumps out 4 lascannon shots

I mean....like I don't really do flyers but I'm about ready to do 1 of each of these bad boys. They look SICK

Now if only I had £100 to spare. :/

What's a good counter to such flying armies? Just bring more shooting? My friend brings an army with 3 storm ravens. I kinda don't want to go into an arms race and bring 4 fire raptors or storm eagles just trump him. >_<

Eldenfirefly wrote:
What's a good counter to such flying armies? Just bring more shooting? My friend brings an army with 3 storm ravens. I kinda don't want to go into an arms race and bring 4 fire raptors or storm eagles just trump him. >_<

I played an Ork player who took some flyers, a good counter is Heldrakes, Bloodthirsters and flying Daemon Princes; they seriously just eat through flyers.

On a slightly related point, the CSM codex has been confirmed to be released shortly after the SM one, so we're looking at some time next month. I'm quite happy with this however, DG are getting their own codex which likely means WE, EC and TS will be getting their own codex as well and since they haven't been confirmed yet we may be looking at waiting a very long time for our other cult units. I just want to be able to field CSM on Juggernaughts lead by Angron. :(

(At least my NL will get a release, but that means I'll probably have to go back to building them up since I stopped to build my WE up: I didn't really want any of this money anyway)

*coughAn'ggrathcough*

*coughcountersallmodelscough*


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
But real talk - this storm eagle....it's pretty legit as a transport. And the fire raptor is ridiculous as a gun platform.

Let's do the fire raptor first:

Has evil machine spirit

Pumps out 24 shots at str 5 rend -1
Pumps out 10 shots at str 6 rend -2 dmg 2
Pumps out 4 lascannon shots

WHAT!

Compare that to the Storm Eagle

Has evil machine spirit
Can transport 20 zerkers (let's be real it's 19 + Kharn)

Pumps out 2d6 str 5 rend -1 shots
Pumps out 2 multi melta shots
Pumps out 4 lascannon shots

I mean....like I don't really do flyers but I'm about ready to do 1 of each of these bad boys. They look SICK

Now if only I had £100 to spare. :/

I know those feels

How's Skarbrand I'm going to be getting him soon in a lot and was curious if he's worth it.

stewe128 wrote:
How's Skarbrand I'm going to be getting him soon in a lot and was curious if he's worth it.

Well... if you are up to playing 1000 points game and below, playing on 2x2 foot table and your opponent lacks lascannon bits, he is beast then.

 luke1705 wrote:

I mean....like I don't really do flyers but I'm about ready to do 1 of each of these bad boys. They look SICK

Be careful, they are pain PAIN to build up.
Buy some greenstuff and prepare hairdryer and a pot of hot water.

Just in case.

stewe128 wrote:
How's Skarbrand I'm going to be getting him soon in a lot and was curious if he's worth it.

Hmmm, if we're just going for straight up smash face effectiveness I'd just take a regular Bloodthirster. However, his ability to give +1A, ignore effects of morale and prevent enemy models from running away might be good if you're running Hordes of Bloodletters or even Berzerkers (since his +1A isn't restricted to Khorne Daemons). Your 20 man Berzerker horde now ignores morale and gains 40 more attacks, not bad as an army multiplier.

Fan67 is right that he'll die quick but hopefully he won't be your only threat on the board, i.e. take him along side Lord of Skulls, other Bloodthirsters, Landraiders filled with Berzerkers, etc. Make your opponent split their fire.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Fan67 is right that he'll die quick but hopefully he won't be your only threat on the board, i.e. take him along side Lord of Skulls, other Bloodthirsters, Landraiders filled with Berzerkers, etc. Make your opponent split their fire.

LoS, Bloodthirster, LR with zerkers and a Skarbrand will cost just about 2000 points, unfortunately. So target saturation is hard.

Fan67 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Fan67 is right that he'll die quick but hopefully he won't be your only threat on the board, i.e. take him along side Lord of Skulls, other Bloodthirsters, Landraiders filled with Berzerkers, etc. Make your opponent split their fire.

LoS, Bloodthirster, LR with zerkers and a Skarbrand will cost just about 2000 points, unfortunately. So target saturation is hard.

They're just examples, giving your opponent multiple threats to target isn't too hard to do this edition. Not saying Skarbrand is a good option but you can build an army around him if you want, which is more than you could do in 7e.

Here's my big question:

After 20 or so pages of discussion, has any consensus been reached as to whether Chaos Space Marines is an army worth playing in 8th Edition? Is it competitive on the tabletop with the right builds and tactics? Is the IA book a must-buy for playing CSM like it was before the Traitor Legion books?

So I've been flipping back through the index and I'm starting to wonder if an army of noise marines with sonic blasters/blast masters, forgefiends with Autocannons, and either a couple of lords or sorcerers might be worth trying.

TheNewBlood wrote:Here's my big question:

After 20 or so pages of discussion, has any consensus been reached as to whether Chaos Space Marines is an army worth playing in 8th Edition? Is it competitive on the tabletop with the right builds and tactics? Is the IA book a must-buy for playing CSM like it was before the Traitor Legion books?

Uh... Still haven't tried them yet. Too obsessed with my Khorne units.

l0k1 wrote:So I've been flipping back through the index and I'm starting to wonder if an army of noise marines with sonic blasters/blast masters, forgefiends with Autocannons, and either a couple of lords or sorcerers might be worth trying.

At this point, anything is worth trying. People have certainly reported noise marines being very good.

True. Too bad I don't have any Forgefiends lol. I could test the theory with a couple squads of autocannon havocs.

What is the general consensus on R&H to supplement CSM? Heavy Weapon Squad Mortar spam might be useful. It's 24 pts for 3d6 shots. Even at bs5+ they should be able to make their points back easily

I am seriously considering a Rogue Psyker Coven and some Marauders to back up my Death Guard-but-not-Death-Guard

some of the imperial tanks we can take sound pretty cool too

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Here's my big question:

After 20 or so pages of discussion, has any consensus been reached as to whether Chaos Space Marines is an army worth playing in 8th Edition? Is it competitive on the tabletop with the right builds and tactics? Is the IA book a must-buy for playing CSM like it was before the Traitor Legion books?

Imo yes depending on what your limiting factor is (fluff, which legion, which god, etc). I don't play without my Fire Raptor (because I just finished it) or my Deredeo. Some of the Forgeworld stuff is so relevant and fills holes that Chaos needs filled (shooting things mainly).

Edit: @ the other guy, Forgefiends aren't very good because of BS4+ and penalty to heavy weapons after moving. Contemptors, Leviathans, or Deredeos, or Decimators are better uses of your points (but require a larger pocketbook).

I have the pocketbook to support it. Unfortunately our store doesn't allow forgeworld models in tournaments, but that also keeps a level playing field for thode who don't have the cash.

 l0k1 wrote:
I have the pocketbook to support it. Unfortunately our store doesn't allow forgeworld models in tournaments, but that also keeps a level playing field for thode who don't have the cash.

I'll never understand stores that do this.

 andysonic1 wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
I have the pocketbook to support it. Unfortunately our store doesn't allow forgeworld models in tournaments, but that also keeps a level playing field for thode who don't have the cash.

I'll never understand stores that do this.

It can suck, but like I said it can keep a level playing field. The upside is it keeps me from going bankrupt lmao

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Here's my big question:

After 20 or so pages of discussion, has any consensus been reached as to whether Chaos Space Marines is an army worth playing in 8th Edition? Is it competitive on the tabletop with the right builds and tactics? Is the IA book a must-buy for playing CSM like it was before the Traitor Legion books?

So far it looks competitive. I don't think CSM has any broken builds that will make people scream cheese. But a well built army probably will do fine. You will have nice close games most of the time.

Its not about keeping a "level playing field", because that would suggest FW are somehow superior in-game, and that's wrong.

early to tell about 8th, but in 7th most FW were horrible in-game, with a few exceptions being decent enough, and all the actual broken stuff were from core GW.


The only thing it DOES do, is to activly discorage people from using forgeworld, and by such from buying it, under the assumption that money not spent on forgeworld will be spent at the store.


Idiotic policy really, because all it does is alienate people who rely on forgeworld to even play (like traitor guard, old corsairs, death korps, etc.), and annoy the people who own forgeworld or like to integrate a few things from there into their armies.

Forge world probably gives you more options as CSM. But its kinda less fluffy. Basically, because of traitor legions/chapters and traitor guard, the CSM in forgeworld gets everything the imperium has. From raptors to storm eagles to chaos baneblades.

The way I see it, you get almost perfect parity because all the toys the imperium has, you get as CSM from forgeworld as well. But in the end, you are essentially using all the imperium mech stuff with the name chaos tagged onto it.

The core GW tries to differentiate the various factions abit more to make them more fluffy. So there are noticable differences between SM and CSM. More daemon engines in CSM, less new tech stuff in CSM. When they come out with the new CSM codex and death guard, we will probably see more differentiation.

Just my take on it.

 andysonic1 wrote:
I'll never understand stores that do this.

Think like a store owner.
Someone is using models they did not buy from your store to give themselves a competitive advantage over the people who did buy their stuff at their store.
It makes business sense to not allow FW at your FLGs. It does not encourage people to use FW models, meaning people are more likely to give you money than FW.

You might disagree with this logic -- but as a business owner it can make perfect sense.