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Eldenfirefly wrote:
well, back to the topic of tactics before it gets sidetracked ...

Anyone tried a walking army of noise marines. Like seriously pack 80 noise marines with sonic blasters and move them up the field while shooting?

It looks like it shouldn't work, but sonice blasters are assault 3. So, those noise marines can move, assault and then shoot 3 times.

And unless its T8, Str 4 shooting is just as effective against everything from T4 to T7. 80 noise marines with 3 shots each is 240 shots per turn. And the range is 6 +d6 +24 inches, after you have moved. That's pretty good and should just about reach most things on the board.

Walking them is fine remember that their only 1" slower than Daemonettes in movement and advance. So not slow at all. The only sonic weapon likely to be in range turn 1 is the Blastmaster anyway. So, camp those MSU Blastmasters squads in cover near a rear objective. Then walk some Sonic Blaster armed squads forward. They probably won't be in range so advancing costs you nothing. Turn 1 you average 9" + 6" moving on turn 2 for 15" forward movement, with the Sonic Blasters 24" your hitting mid-field. If you take fast cavalry or flying Princes in your list, and or mass daemons; they won't be take as much fire. That said I would take 80 of them ; maybe 40: 4 5X MSU squads with Blastmasters. You can either keep their bolters for 108 pts, or take Sonic Blasters for 124 pts <still 1 pt cheaper than a naked MSU Blastmaster squad in the 7th!>. Then take two 10X Sonic Blaster squads. While Noise Marines are very good with the Blaster they cost more than twice as much as a Daemonette, so take come of them to take care of Terminators and the like.

I feel like the people are undervaluing Sonic Blasters. A squad of 10 will kill 3.3 Marine, 6.7 Eldar Guardians, 8.9 Guardsman, and 8.3 Ork Boyz a turn. While a Havoc squad with 4 Heavy Bolters kills 2.7 Marines, 4.4 Guardsman, and 5.3 Ork Boyz a turn. Before even taking into account re-roll auras or Prescience. Sure the Noise Marines 200 pts to the Havocs cost 105 pts; but they have twice as many bodies. Even if you take two heavy bolter Havoc squads for more comparable points. The Sonic Blaster squad kills the while halve as effective against Marines, are equivalent in Guardsman and kill 2 fewer Orks. Since, Heavy Bolters are anti-infantry/horde I see no reason to take them if your going heavy on Noise Marines. Missiles launches would be a far better choice overall.


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DreamIsCollapsing wrote:
Yea but all the point you spend in rhino can go on more Noise marines.
And in the case of noise marines you get more dakka when you get killed, so that's not like your points are totally lost when you get killed (exept of course if there is nothing at range).

So i'm not sure if X Noise marines in Y Rhino are so much better than X+Yx3.6 Noise marines without rhino.

Or 7.7 Daemonettes, Herald, or a Seeker Chariot.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Kharn is the only hero in CSM right now other than Abaddon that gives units around him a reroll to hit. That's not a small thing. The first time my friend put Azreal into a fire base and told me he gives models around him a 4++ invul, gives them rerolls to hit, plus he himself can serve as a countercharge... I was green with envy.

I do like Kharn for the re-rolls, but the basic chaos lord for 99 points less will still let you do re-rolls of 1, which is almost as good, and his aura is a lot larger. I've been using that to great effect.

Rerolling 1's is NOT almost as good. You're lying to yourself.

It's "almost" as good because you couldn't have a buff aura that does anything better than re-rolls of 1 while being worse than full on re-rolls, assuming that you hit on 3's.

Anyhow, I think you really need to be dedicated to your gunline to make Kharn do enough work to be more than double the points of a normal lord. Obviously having units that normally would hit on a 4+ helps this a lot. And I wonder if gunline is still going to be the play style when more progressive scoring missions are released. (That's my way of saying I don't think it will be)

 Rydria wrote:
I0 sonic blaster noise marines is only a 20pts more than 5 terminators w/ power sword/combi bolters. Though the noise marines have an inferior save they have 10 extra shots at 12inch (optimal combi range) and 20 more shots at 13-24 inch range. Noise marines also shot when they die so foot slogging them is perfectly fine since even if they die they will shot somthing. They are also decent in combat nowhere near berserker but they are no push overs, also unlike berserkers they actually do somthing as they walk up the board.

The only power armour unit i can think of which is more point effecient with small arms at long-range are sister of battle dominions with storm bolters. Who happen to also be by far the best at short range too.

Before, Sonic Blaster got changed to Salvo. Noise Marines were raiders from the 3-5th edition. You were paying for their ability to shoot and then charge in and mop up any survivors. They may not have +1 initiative anymore but their extra attack basically serves the same purpose now. So, gun down 8-9 Nids/IG/Orks a turn staying out of range. But its to your advantage you can charge in for an additional 5-6 kill in melee. If only the Doom Siren could be fired in melee outside if the champion dying I could almost see my ways to using them.

mmh, the "walk them/no rhino" rgument makes sense...i'll try them.
2X10 noise with blasters, plasma pistol+p.sword champ and icon of excess 434 pts..not cheap. but with some support they could kill a lot of stuff.
add in 4x5 noise marines with blastmaster/bolter for 432 pts more... some fire support (decimator + full las predator?)...a sorceror+a lord, stock, for auras and boons...could be worse!

The champ should also have a sonic blaster doom sirens are also really meh now being only d3 hits. I don't have the book on hand since I'm not home can you take a sonic blaster and a combi weapon on the noise champion at the same time.

 Rydria wrote:


Lucius the eternal is less durable than a regular chaos lord :/

He has been consistently the worst chaos special character for the last 3 editions, and recently his only saving grace his doom siren got nerffed, also unlike Kharn and Typhus his invulnerable didn't get boosted to 4+.

Oh, its some much worse than that. Lucius' swordsmanship is "Perfect" but he hits on a 2+ just like every other melee character? Compare him to the Emperor's Champion for instance. Would you rather have +2 attacks or re-roll to hit any miss AND +3 strength vs characters? The Black Sword is just better than the "Blade of the Laer", because reasons. Then you have Lucius mediocre saves 3+/5++. They could have at least give him a 4+ in combat; he's Slaanesh's champion after all. The prominent rack of Combat Drugs on his back do nothing. He used to be able to pick drug cocktail <combat bonuses> he wanted. Finally, his character aura is just bland. Look at the auras the Imperial special characters grant. Granting +1S to sonic weapons, FNP within 6" would have been more characterful. While he isn't terrible, the best thing you can say about Lucius is that he's cheaper, and that really a shame. Maybe when/if he gets a plastic model they'll do something interesting with him.


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 Rydria wrote:
The champ should also have a sonic blaster doom sirens are also really meh now being only d3 hits. I don't have the book on hand since I'm not home can you take a sonic blaster and a combi weapon on the noise champion at the same time.

No, the bolter has to swap for the sonic blaster; and the pistol can only swap for a melee weapon or a plasma pistol. You are allowed to take two pistols or two melee weapons; but only one bolter or combi-weapon.

 Sersi wrote:

 Rydria wrote:


Lucius the eternal is less durable than a regular chaos lord :/

He has been consistently the worst chaos special character for the last 3 editions, and recently his only saving grace his doom siren got nerffed, also unlike Kharn and Typhus his invulnerable didn't get boosted to 4+.

Oh, its some much worse than that. Lucius' swordsmanship is "Perfect" but he hits on a 2+ just like every other melee character? Compare him to the Emperor's Champion for instance. Would you rather have +2 attacks or re-roll to hit any miss AND +3 strength vs characters? The Black Sword is just better than the "Blade of the Laer", because reasons. Then you have Lucius mediocre saves 3+/5++. They could have at least give him a 4+ in combat; he's Slaanesh's champion after all. The prominent rack of Combat Drugs on his back do nothing. He used to be able to pick drug cocktail <combat bonuses> he wanted. Finally, his character aura is just bland. Look at the auras the Imperial special characters grant. Granting +1S to sonic weapons, FNP within 6" would have been more characterful. While he isn't terrible, the best thing you can say about Lucius is that he's cheaper, and that really a shame. Maybe when/if he gets a plastic model they'll do something interesting with him.

God forbid GW give Slaanesh any good characters!

I feel that noise marine army need to be complemented with other stuff. They are flexible, but they aren't armor killers. I mean, sure they can try and empty 100 shots into a tank to kill it, but its not what they are good at. So, we need to have 3 squads of Havocs with lascannons in cover to handle the armor.

What noise marines are good at is that they can stay at 24 inches and remain deadly. A lot of stuff needs to close to 12 inches for doubletap, and others even need to close into close combat range. Noise marines can shoot just as well at 24 inches. So, if you meet an opponent that charges forward, you move back back 6 + d6 and then empty your full volley of shots into it. Then do it again next turn!

Just when he thinks he finally have you backed against your own board edge. That's when you countercharge him and surprise him. With icon of excess and 2 attacks each, even that sonic blastor wielding noise marine can hit a surprising number of times (because of death to the false emperor). So I think have maybe 4 squads of 10 noise marines (for some flexibility) to dominate the midfield. Complement it with lascannon havocs behind in cover and a daemon prince to give a strong countercharge close combat attack.

Then play to your strengths. If you outshoot the enemy, then keep at 24 inches and keep on firing until you are ready to charge in and finish him off. If you meet a turtling shooty army. Like AM with tanks, surrounded by IG guardsmen bubblewrap. Then charge your noise marines 6+d6 forward and thin out the bubble wrap with your sonice blastors. Even if your heavy support eventually lose the cross fire exchange, by then your noise marines should be able to charge in. Once you are in close combat, the tanks have nowhere to run and can't do much.

And if you run into something so overwhelming (but with super low model count). Then you have tons of bodies to play the objective game. The good thing about noise marines is that even if they are parked on an objective, they are likely to be very useful because their sonic blastors are still range 24 inches with 3 shots.

 Sersi wrote:


Oh, its some much worse than that. Lucius' swordsmanship is "Perfect" but he hits on a 2+ just like every other melee character? Compare him to the Emperor's Champion for instance. Would you rather have +2 attacks or re-roll to hit any miss AND +3 strength vs characters? The Black Sword is just better than the "Blade of the Laer", because reasons. Then you have Lucius mediocre saves 3+/5++. They could have at least give him a 4+ in combat; he's Slaanesh's champion after all. The prominent rack of Combat Drugs on his back do nothing. He used to be able to pick drug cocktail <combat bonuses> he wanted. Finally, his character aura is just bland. Look at the auras the Imperial special characters grant. Granting +1S to sonic weapons, FNP within 6" would have been more characterful. While he isn't terrible, the best thing you can say about Lucius is that he's cheaper, and that really a shame. Maybe when/if he gets a plastic model they'll do something interesting with him.

The Blade of the laer a weapon that not only took the life of a Primarch but caused the complete corruption of another causing him to fall so far even his fellow traitor primarch tried to end his life, isn't even worth of being named according to GW, it is literally listed as a master crafted power sword :/

 Sersi wrote:
No, the bolter has to swap for the sonic blaster; and the pistol can only swap for a melee weapon or a plasma pistol. You are allowed to take two pistols or two melee weapons; but only one bolter or combi-weapon.

Oh well, it would have been amazing if the champ could have wielded both so much dakka on a single model


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 mrhappyface wrote:

God forbid GW give Slaanesh any good characters!

Where is Doomrider I know he sucked back in 3rd rules wise and character wise but the internet has turned him into something glorious :(

He was also super cool in the white scars audio drama, casually smacking around the white scars, took out a storm talon with his sword by jumping up onto it from a ramp while cleaving the cockpit in twine, my god why doesn't he have a new model and rules : (

Hi guys'll, which of the forge world dreadnoughts/decimstor do you guys think is the best?

Anyone considered a heavy drop beta strike army?

Put down some Havocs squads with cheap cultists squad to bubble wrap and prevent first strike attacks. And you have some thing on the table at the start. And let the enemy go first (He probably will since you will likely have more drops than him). When its your turn, drop the bulk of your army which will be in the form of melta/plasma Raptor squads and Terminators. The key thing is that he won't be able to choose your best units to hit, all he can shoot at is some Havocs in cover or cheap cultists. Whereas you can deep strike where ever you want and do heavy damage to specifically the units you deem are the most dangerous. Have jump pack Lords or Termi lords (and Abaddon) in the beta deep strike force. It will improve your beta strike to hit immensely. What do you think?

I know just one combi melta Termi sqaud with rerolls from Abaddon managed to take down a flying storm raven in one battle I tried out. It might be the answer to those 3 to 5 SR lists. You can't bubble wrap a SR. And the SRs can't hit your units in deep strike. If you can take down a few SR in your beta strike, that's at least half or more of his army already and it will distrupt his entire strategy.

 Rydria wrote:
The champ should also have a sonic blaster doom sirens are also really meh now being only d3 hits. I don't have the book on hand since I'm not home can you take a sonic blaster and a combi weapon on the noise champion at the same time.

It's says a noise marine can take a Blasmaster or Sonic blaster. Not a "Champ noise marine". yea it's dumb as fu... "You got promoted, now hand back that sonic weapon you love so much.."

Personally i will wait the chaos codex to know if I put a doom siren on my NM champ. At the moment they are just terrible for the point (maybee if it was D6 auto-hit like every "flammers").

Combi-plasma are the best weapon on NM imo. Think about all the fun you'll have when your champ get killed : Firing between S4 AP0 DMG1 shot at CT4+ AND S8 AP-4 DMG2 at CT2+. Great isn't it ?

It says any noise marine may exchange boltgun for sonic blaster

I assume that includes the champ.

Doesn't say any noise marine, it says "any model", which only makes it even more clear the champion can take a sonic blaster. Doesn't seem like the champion can take a blastmaster, though.

kaintxu wrote:
Hi guys'll, which of the forge world dreadnoughts/decimstor do you guys think is the best?

Decimators with 2x Soul devourers (or whatever they're called)?

 mrhappyface wrote:

kaintxu wrote:
Hi guys'll, which of the forge world dreadnoughts/decimstor do you guys think is the best?

Decimators with 2x Soul devourers (or whatever they're called)?

Soulburner Petards?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

kaintxu wrote:
Hi guys'll, which of the forge world dreadnoughts/decimstor do you guys think is the best?

Decimators with 2x Soul devourers (or whatever they're called)?

Soulburner Petards?

That's it!

Eldenfirefly wrote:
What do you think?

I know just one combi melta Termi sqaud with rerolls from Abaddon managed to take down a flying storm raven in one battle I tried out. It might be the answer to those 3 to 5 SR lists. You can't bubble wrap a SR. And the SRs can't hit your units in deep strike. If you can take down a few SR in your beta strike, that's at least half or more of his army already and it will distrupt his entire strategy.

6 termies with melta and power weapons cost 324 points and on average deal almost 7 damage to a stormraven, so half of its wounds, even without Abaddon or lord assistance.
1 stormraven in the usual tournament loadout costs 311 points and on average kills almost 3 terminators.
So they are matched, but the termies get the first strike.

Seems like the best bet against SR I've seen so far.

Soulburner petards now 60 pts each.


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Sonic dreads and laser destroyers get rules.
FW characters improved but still not fixed.

RIP catapulting the brass scorpion into combat with warp time. Khorne is pleased but I am not


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BUT I CAN GET TWO BUTCHER CANNONS NOW

 luke1705 wrote:
BUT I CAN GET TWO BUTCHER CANNONS NOW

That's pretty good... What's that? The Leviathan is BS2+? Excuse me while I go scream Bloody Murder in the glorious name of Khorne. *Mwahahahahahaha!*

But seriously: 16x S8 AP-1 D2 shots hitting on a 2+!? Get 4-5 of them with a couple of Lords for re-rolls and warpsmiths to repair them and laugh your opponant off the table! One of these guys with re-rolls will, on average, kill over 6 marines a turn, 4 terminators (which isn't that impressive, but...) or do almost 8 wounds to an Imperial Knight, one round of shooting from 3 of these guys would take down a knight a turn!

Captyn_Bob wrote:
FW characters improved but still not fixed.

Zhufor seems pretty fixed to me. 150 points for a far more superior terminator lord? Yes please!

Hey guys,

Trying to catch up.

Above, I assume your referring to the Contemptor Dread.

Maybe I'm being dense... but isn't 2 Butcher Cannons only 8 shots? Heavy 4.
It doesn't state "Twin" Butcher cannon in the profile.


C

mcsheehy wrote:
Hey guys,

Trying to catch up.

Above, I assume your referring to the Contemptor Dread.

Maybe I'm being dense... but isn't 2 Butcher Cannons only 8 shots? Heavy 4.
It doesn't state "Twin" Butcher cannon in the profile.


C

Butcher cannon array on a Leviathan.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
BUT I CAN GET TWO BUTCHER CANNONS NOW

That's pretty good... What's that? The Leviathan is BS2+? Excuse me while I go scream Bloody Murder in the glorious name of Khorne. *Mwahahahahahaha!*

But seriously: 16x S8 AP-1 D2 shots hitting on a 2+!? Get 4-5 of them with a couple of Lords for re-rolls and warpsmiths to repair them and laugh your opponant off the table! One of these guys with re-rolls will, on average, kill over 6 marines a turn, 4 terminators (which isn't that impressive, but...) or do almost 8 wounds to an Imperial Knight, one round of shooting from 3 of these guys would take down a knight a turn!

Cant repair them now thanks to the faq on thier hunger. Makes the helwrights repair ability wierdly unsynergetic with his own creations.

 McGibs wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
BUT I CAN GET TWO BUTCHER CANNONS NOW

That's pretty good... What's that? The Leviathan is BS2+? Excuse me while I go scream Bloody Murder in the glorious name of Khorne. *Mwahahahahahaha!*

But seriously: 16x S8 AP-1 D2 shots hitting on a 2+!? Get 4-5 of them with a couple of Lords for re-rolls and warpsmiths to repair them and laugh your opponant off the table! One of these guys with re-rolls will, on average, kill over 6 marines a turn, 4 terminators (which isn't that impressive, but...) or do almost 8 wounds to an Imperial Knight, one round of shooting from 3 of these guys would take down a knight a turn!

Cant repair them now thanks to the faq on thier hunger. Makes the helwrights repair ability wierdly unsynergetic with his own creations.

Oh. That. Is so dumb.

 McGibs wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
BUT I CAN GET TWO BUTCHER CANNONS NOW

That's pretty good... What's that? The Leviathan is BS2+? Excuse me while I go scream Bloody Murder in the glorious name of Khorne. *Mwahahahahahaha!*

But seriously: 16x S8 AP-1 D2 shots hitting on a 2+!? Get 4-5 of them with a couple of Lords for re-rolls and warpsmiths to repair them and laugh your opponant off the table! One of these guys with re-rolls will, on average, kill over 6 marines a turn, 4 terminators (which isn't that impressive, but...) or do almost 8 wounds to an Imperial Knight, one round of shooting from 3 of these guys would take down a knight a turn!

Cant repair them now thanks to the faq on thier hunger. Makes the helwrights repair ability wierdly unsynergetic with his own creations.

So they did. Wonder why they changed that, it wasn't really a problem before the FAQ.

Thank you Mrgibs!

I didn't realise the Levi got an array!

Might have to look into that as a support. Ie, dakka station

Reading the Wargear section,

It seems that when replacing the fists/meltas, you keep the 2x flamers?
(Just so I can get the points right)

TBH, at that points investment, wouldn't we be better off with a Fire Raptor??

mcsheehy wrote:
Thank you Mrgibs!

I didn't realise the Levi got an array!

Might have to look into that as a support. Ie, dakka station

Reading the Wargear section,

It seems that when replacing the fists/meltas, you keep the 2x flamers?
(Just so I can get the points right)

Yep, which means when the dread overwatches it gets 2d6 S5 auto hits + 16 shots hitting on 6s.

TBH, at that points investment, wouldn't we be better off with a Fire Raptor??

There are a few bonuses for both:
- The Dread is cheaper in points.
- The Dread is cheaper in money.
- The Dread has higher strength weapons.
- The Dread has BS2+ rather than 3+.
- The Dread is more damaging in overwatch.
- The Fire Raptor has more shots.
- The Fire Raptor has better AP.
- The Fire Raptor is more mobile and has no -1 to hit from heavy weapons.
- The Fire Raptor can't be charged by none flyer models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 McGibs wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
BUT I CAN GET TWO BUTCHER CANNONS NOW

That's pretty good... What's that? The Leviathan is BS2+? Excuse me while I go scream Bloody Murder in the glorious name of Khorne. *Mwahahahahahaha!*

But seriously: 16x S8 AP-1 D2 shots hitting on a 2+!? Get 4-5 of them with a couple of Lords for re-rolls and warpsmiths to repair them and laugh your opponant off the table! One of these guys with re-rolls will, on average, kill over 6 marines a turn, 4 terminators (which isn't that impressive, but...) or do almost 8 wounds to an Imperial Knight, one round of shooting from 3 of these guys would take down a knight a turn!

Cant repair them now thanks to the faq on thier hunger. Makes the helwrights repair ability wierdly unsynergetic with his own creations.

Though what I did just notice is that now they regain wounds from damage done in Overwatch which makes it's 2x Hellflamers very nice.

Wow! Faith rewarded...

Sonic Dreadnoughts return with Twin Blastmasters and a Doom Siren.

Things shall get loud now!