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Give Fallen combi-bolters, and run them in squads of 5/6 this makes them 16pts each and makes them comparable to noise marines at shooting at long range, while superior at short range.

6 Fallen (combi-bolters) = 96 pts putting out 12 shots at long range and 24 shots at short range

5 Noise marines = 100 pts puts out 15 shots at all ranges

Except fallen can't ride intransports so it's really hard to get them into that close range. I love fallen butas of now they're useless without a way to get into range. Hopefully the chaos dex gives them infiltrate of some sort

What about giving a unit of Fallen a heavy weapon? I feel like they could benefit from an Autocannon or Heavy Bolter. Granted, they'd get -1 to hit if they move, but it would increase their firepower. Or perhaps melee Fallen? Yes, they have to footslog, but they could at least provide a distraction/deterrent in the backfield, and if they do see melee combat and Cypher is close by, they could be fairly dangerous.

So chapter tactics have rendered vanilla marines superior in every way. How the hell do we conquer konor now?

macluvin wrote:
So chapter tactics have rendered vanilla marines superior in every way. How the hell do we conquer konor now?

.. wait for out own codex?

What chapter tactics ?

DreamIsCollapsing wrote:
What chapter tactics ?

Chapter tactics in the new Space Marine Codex coming out at the end of this month, Ultramarine CT gives infantry, bikes and dreadnoughts the ability to retreat from combat and fire at -1BS.

 mrhappyface wrote:

DreamIsCollapsing wrote:
What chapter tactics ?

Chapter tactics in the new Space Marine Codex coming out at the end of this month, Ultramarine CT gives infantry, bikes and dreadnoughts the ability to retreat from combat and fire at -1BS.

And, because that wasn't quite good enough, a bonus Ld on top.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

DreamIsCollapsing wrote:
What chapter tactics ?

Chapter tactics in the new Space Marine Codex coming out at the end of this month, Ultramarine CT gives infantry, bikes and dreadnoughts the ability to retreat from combat and fire at -1BS.

And, because that wasn't quite good enough, a bonus Ld on top.

Aye, but before we march into Nottingham and burn the GW rules writers at the stake shall we first see what the rest of the Chapter tactics are and what the Legion rules are?

Ooh, didn't know they were already leek

DreamIsCollapsing wrote:
Ooh, didn't know they were already leek

Not really leaked:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/14/ultramarines-and-the-redemptor-dreadnought-first-lookgw-homepage-post-2/

Is a chaos lord with 2 lightning claws and a combi melta mounted on a bike still legal ? I know you can mount meltas on your bike for chaos bikers and in 7th you could mount combis on the bike.

 Rydria wrote:
Is a chaos lord with 2 lightning claws and a combi melta mounted on a bike still legal ? I know you can mount meltas on your bike for chaos bikers and in 7th you could mount combis on the bike.

You can't change the combi-bolter mounted on the bike, only what the Lord carries in his hands.

Once we get legion rules, we'll be fine.

For example, you might notice that every World Eaters unit currently has the rule "blood for the blood god!"

Imagine if World Eaters armies gained that special rule on every unit for being part of a World Eaters Detachment.

How would you feel about the balance scales then?

 luke1705 wrote:
Once we get legion rules, we'll be fine.

For example, you might notice that every World Eaters unit currently has the rule "blood for the blood god!"

Imagine if World Eaters armies gained that special rule on every unit for being part of a World Eaters Detachment.

How would you feel about the balance scales then?

Khorne Terminators dropped from the sky for those tasty turn 1 charges? Either kitted out fully with Power fists or Lightning claws? Either 22x S8 AP-3 Dd3 attacks or 32x S4 AP-2 D1 attacks re-rolling to wound? I'm licking my lips just thinking about it...

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Is a chaos lord with 2 lightning claws and a combi melta mounted on a bike still legal ? I know you can mount meltas on your bike for chaos bikers and in 7th you could mount combis on the bike.

You can't change the combi-bolter mounted on the bike, only what the Lord carries in his hands.

Shame I was at work and couldn't check, thanks for the reply.

I doubt blood for the blood god will be your legion tactic, pretty sure it is intended to be the defining rule for khorne berserkers (with Kharn more or less being a berserker lord) though it would be terrifying.

I'd be happy if they made daemons and mortals Mark of Chaos do the same thing... I always got confused last edition for some reason. Plus the extra strength and attack are pretty nice

 anticitizen013 wrote:
I'd be happy if they made daemons and mortals Mark of Chaos do the same thing... I always got confused last edition for some reason. Plus the extra strength and attack are pretty nice

The most confusing thing is that Nurgle and Death Guard cult units get the same bonus but the other Daemons and cult units get different bonuses.

Has anyone had much luck with warpsmiths.

Never bothered with them before but looking at it they seem like quite the fireplatform now

melta guns shot
d6 flamer shots
whack a combi melta on him, another melta shot!
then 18" mortal wound curse to vehicles

biggest let down though i guess is the pretty hefty points cost and lack of inv save

 Latro_ wrote:
Has anyone had much luck with warpsmiths.

Never bothered with them before but looking at it they seem like quite the fireplatform now

melta guns shot
d6 flamer shots
whack a combi melta on him, another melta shot!
then 18" mortal wound curse to vehicles

biggest let down though i guess is the pretty hefty points cost and lack of inv save

For me the biggest let down is the lack of mobility, he can't keep up with the rest of my army.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
Has anyone had much luck with warpsmiths.

Never bothered with them before but looking at it they seem like quite the fireplatform now

For me the biggest let down is the lack of mobility, he can't keep up with the rest of my army.

Index is following the last edition: Marines can put their Techmarine on bike, but Chaos Warpsmith has to footslog. And this is a severe handicap. Thanks GW!

What is the verdict on Abaddon with his new 8th rules?

Is he worth it as a Warlord and how do you get the most out of him?

Gibs55 wrote:
What is the verdict on Abaddon with his new 8th rules?

Is he worth it as a Warlord and how do you get the most out of him?

This edition, his best use seems to be to sit in the middle of some form of parking lot and give re-rolls.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
What is the verdict on Abaddon with his new 8th rules?

Is he worth it as a Warlord and how do you get the most out of him?

This edition, his best use seems to be to sit in the middle of some form of parking lot and give re-rolls.

Right so his combat ability is not great for the points, just the re-roll to hot for units within 6"?

Gibs55 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
What is the verdict on Abaddon with his new 8th rules?

Is he worth it as a Warlord and how do you get the most out of him?

This edition, his best use seems to be to sit in the middle of some form of parking lot and give re-rolls.

Right so his combat ability is not great for the points, just the re-roll to hot for units within 6"?

No his combat ability is pretty damn good, it's just that you get far much more for your points when you sit him in the centre of a large number of ranged weapons for the re-rolls i.e. you could send Abaddon to kill maybe 1 unit or less a turn or you could give re-rolls to 4x fully kitted out Las-Predators and a Defiler to kill 3 or more units a turn.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
What is the verdict on Abaddon with his new 8th rules?

Is he worth it as a Warlord and how do you get the most out of him?

This edition, his best use seems to be to sit in the middle of some form of parking lot and give re-rolls.

Right so his combat ability is not great for the points, just the re-roll to hot for units within 6"?

No his combat ability is pretty damn good, it's just that you get far much more for your points when you sit him in the centre of a large number of ranged weapons for the re-rolls i.e. you could send Abaddon to kill maybe 1 unit or less a turn or you could give re-rolls to 4x fully kitted out Las-Predators and a Defiler to kill 3 or more units a turn.

Gotcha, that makes sense.

What do we think of the Hellblade as an option? It's cheap at 150-160pts for a flyer but it's weak and has no machine spirit. It can either take two cannons for 4x S6 AP-2 D3 shots, not great as it isn't S7, or two lascannons which lacks RoF. Are two cannons on T6 8W shassy worth it for 150pts?

Only version of the helbrute I think is worth it is the sonic blaster version...its just SO GOOD!!!

Also as far as cult units getting different bonuses, the noise marines ability is SO GOOD I can forgive it.

People actually have to be careful about when they kill people because if they kill my models at the wrong time I will wipe out something they were not expecting. Same with deep striking enemies. "O, you killed one of my units okay they are going to split fire and target two of your other deep striking units in your alpha strike"

Personally I'd say no. A sonic dread is same points with more firepower and better T.

The more I'm playing the more I'm seeing just how good chaos is at 0-24 inches. I've been running a contemptor Ahriman, 2 rhinos, 9 twins withflamers, 10 noise marines, 20 brimstones, 5 terms with combinelts, 5 sot with helfyre and 5 raptors with combimelta and 2 melta. Anda sonic dread

I've learned a few things, 30 sonic shots withorescience and the dp nearby hitting on rerollable 2s will hurt anything under T8 and absolutely rip through hordes. And thousand sons are hard to shift and hit hard with flamers.

The key I found to my list was to not dilute my deployment by this i mean I pick a spot in the board for my mid range units to attack and focus on that. The terms and raptors are inreserve and come down as one. Sometimes that's in the backfield if the enemy has moved up and sometimes it's as reinforcements of my main thrust.

Keep the brims out in front to stop first turn chargers andenemy melta and ifyou need to smite something make sure all your Smiters are in one tight group. I only have 2 real smites2 mini smites and 2 mini mini smites, on average that's 6 wounds which between assault and shooting should be enough to weaken or kill a tough unit.

Other general things I've seen are orks are only scary if they come to one point. If they spread out even a little and get thinned down below 20 they're much less scary.

Nids are just scary. But again if you can screen against them they die pretty quickly. Always target the swarmlord first though.

demontalons wrote:
Personally I'd say no. A sonic dread is same points with more firepower and better T.

Aye, I see what you mean. What about the Helltalon? That does have machine spirit, better T, more wounds and gains a one use only bomb. It rivals the Heldrake for a flyer of similar points but they have different jobs: the Heldrake gets 1st turn charges and harrasses flyers whilst the Helltalon drops its payload to cripple a unit i.e. wipe half a unit of Boyz/Conscripts. The problem I see with the Helltalon though is that, once it's dropped it's payload it becomes a very expensive platform for two heavy weapons.