Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Pre Heresy. Well a halberd, which counts as a force axe.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Huh, didn't even know the kit has swords until now.

It came with this sword:

See for me, the most important FAQ'd topic was one of omission: Brims are still 2 ppm. Crazy

Tournament over the weekend, ran Night lords list the roughly looked like:
1776 point Tourney
DP w/wings
Sorcerer
2x Raptor Squads w/ 2x Meltas, 1x Combi Melta
Dreadclaw
Contemptor Dreadnaught, Chainfists and Soulburners
Fire Raptor: Quad Heavy Bolters, 2x Twin LC's
6x Khorne Bezerkers in a rhino
Maulerfiend with lasher tendrils

Fragile list, relying on Deepstriking to dodge in and cripple an opponent, with my Fire Raptor as my primary fire support.

OBSERVATIONS:

Fire Raptor: A whole lot of dakka, for a whole lot of points. While pretty friggin' awesome to zip around and murk people, I feel like the 422 points are too expensive in a game for something with only 16 wounds. Prescience does work on him though.

Sorcerers: Jump pack is highly useful for placing him where he needs to be to cast warp time, but he then tended to get left out to get smoked after his accompanying units assaulted.

Dreadclaw: Great delivery platform for a contemptor, too many points for what it does. Lot of fun flaming orks with it's flamer pistol though. Kharybdis for 100 more points is 3x better I think.

Khorne Bezerkers: I never utilized them well. Gonna build a bigger unit to throw into a Kharybdis.

Maulerfiend: Complete waste. He either gets shot to death, or murked in close combat after missing with his 4+. I'd say prescience would be useful, but you gotta be casting that on other things.

Raptors: 5 raptors with 3x Meltas is a really happy little assault weapon squad. They just show up and drop rounds into anything heavy, they make for great harassers.

Contemptor Dreadnaught: Does friggin' work. Pretty pricey, and the soulburners are probably not overly useful, but he murked a gorkanaut and an imperial knight in two different rounds 4x damage is pretty nasty, all things considered.

The Way Forward:

I'm looking hard at 5 man chosen squads with 5 combi weapons inside the squad to unleash hate. Sticking them in a Kharybdis with a 13 man bezerker squad, a sorcerer, and a dark apostle. Everybody pops out, the chosen put out some fire to soften up a target, and it's off to the races with the assaults.

I'm pretty sure Exalted Sorcerers are still too overcosted to take, cheaper Force Sword or not. They might be worth it once Thousand Sons gets a psychic list that you really want a bunch of psykers to take advantage of but they'd still probably be just worse than Daemon Princes.

Arachnofiend wrote:
I'm pretty sure Exalted Sorcerers are still too overcosted to take, cheaper Force Sword or not. They might be worth it once Thousand Sons gets a psychic list that you really want a bunch of psykers to take advantage of but they'd still probably be just worse than Daemon Princes.

Which suggests to me that Daemon Princes are undercosted for what they do. Something I already believed. If they increased the cost of Princes, at least the ones that are psykers (any that aren't Khorne), then other units like Exalted Sorcerers might see play.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:
I'm pretty sure Exalted Sorcerers are still too overcosted to take, cheaper Force Sword or not. They might be worth it once Thousand Sons gets a psychic list that you really want a bunch of psykers to take advantage of but they'd still probably be just worse than Daemon Princes.

Which suggests to me that Daemon Princes are undercosted for what they do. Something I already believed. If they increased the cost of Princes, at least the ones that are psykers (any that aren't Khorne), then other units like Exalted Sorcerers might see play.

If a point adjustment needs to be made on Princes it's the talons, IMO. They might be undercosted, but Exalted Sorcerers are certainly overcosted. If Daemon Princes were priced higher then I'd be taking Sorcerers over Exalted Sorcerers instead.

Daemon Princes aren't even strictly better than regular sorcerers, sorcerers have a few niches daemon princes don't such as packing 2 spells, having the ability to deep strike and use vehicles to transport.

Daemon princes are a better unit overall, but sorcerers are definitely viable

wow wartime thing is huge,

so they are saying you can drop in some termies and then move them with warptime!?

 Latro_ wrote:
wow wartime thing is huge,

so they are saying you can drop in some termies and then move them with warptime!?

That's how I've been using Warptime so far, FAQ just confirmed what we already new.

Glad for the confirmation though.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
wow wartime thing is huge,

so they are saying you can drop in some termies and then move them with warptime!?

That's how I've been using Warptime so far, FAQ just confirmed what we already new.

That's how I was using them as well. I am also extremely happy with the clarification about Daemons keywords in the FAQ. Now I am sure than Possessed with the Mark of Tzeentch can be affected by both Changeling's and Heralds of Tzeentch's aura. That means 1D3 S6 AP-2 attacks for 22 points each and can still be buffed with Prescience or Boon of Change.

Heretical thoughts time.
Necrosius aura ability is really good, +1 to hit in the fight phase.
Only effects The Tainted legion. Now, until FW releases rules saying what this means, are we assuming it's a generic legion?

Lorewise the tainted are a deathguard warband/sub faction, necrosius was a deathguard apothecary who fell to despair when he failed to cure his brothers of nurgles gifts.

Until they FAQ it, the Tainted ability doesn't work on Death Guard units, which makes no sense...

So, the tainted could (at the moment) be an Apex CC unit.
+1 to hit stacks really well with Death to the False Emperor.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
So, the tainted could (at the moment) be an Apex CC unit.
+1 to hit stacks really well with Death to the False Emperor.

Why does it? It just means DttFE will be activated on a 5 rather than a 6.

A third of your attacks generating extra attacks sounds good to me.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
A third of your attacks generating extra attacks sounds good to me.

Ah, wait, DttFE is on a 6+ not a 6. My bad.

If you cast prescience on them half your attacks will trigger death to the false emperor, this is somthing I've been doing with large squads of slaanesh raptors it can do some brutal damage.

Speaking of Prescience, I watched a BatRep yesterday where they said that you can't die from overcharged plasma if the unit has prescience on it. Roll a 1, it automatically fails regardless of modifiers, but it's still a 1+1=2 and therefore does not get hot. Does that sound right to anyone else?

Arachnofiend wrote:
Speaking of Prescience, I watched a BatRep yesterday where they said that you can't die from overcharged plasma if the unit has prescience on it. Roll a 1, it automatically fails regardless of modifiers, but it's still a 1+1=2 and therefore does not get hot. Does that sound right to anyone else?

Not 'right' but yeah correct.
Also means if you have any negatives to hit you overheat more often.

Seeing all the leaks from the SM codex has me very worried about alot of our own unit options that aren't supported by a kit.

No more Librarians, tech marines, and apothecaries on bikes means no more Sorcerers on bikes, and most likely means no more Lords on bikes.

We have one combi melta on a backpack of the Aspiring Champion (maybe a new hq?), the Melta and Flamer from the Terminator Kit, and whatever came in the Lord kit. So combi Plasma is probably gone.

The only steed is the disc of tzeentch. The only Lords are Terminator and Jump Claw lord. Bikes have no special weapons, but neither does the Loyalist one.

We have a few odd axes on a few mono pose models, but mostly swords on sprues. I expect Lightning Claws to dissappear on most units except the Raptors/warp talons and the terminator lord.

I know the sky isnt falling... this does save me some travel space and painting time. This rant is more of a heads up to the other people like me who really enjoyed the building and converting aspect of this hobby most of all.

EDIT:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

tells us to just use the index for units and such not found in the codex.

I have a question about Maulerfiends: In the index it's says you can swap both magma cutters for lashertenderils and the profile for lashers says add d6 attacks. Does this mean you get 2 d6 extra attacks for taking two sets or is the extra d6 representing two d3 extra attacks? I'm leaning towards the latter seeing as Helbrutes only get plus d3 extra attacks for taking the power scourge which is basically the same thing.

@NightLord1987
You got a source for no librarians on bikes?

Anyone tried Belakor this edition? He flies 14. with warptime, and 6 attacks, he is kinda like a mini Magnus in that you can cast a warptime, then move 14 giving him a 28 inch move total and then charge a flyer (SR). His weapon does 3 damage.

Thing is, he can be hidden. So, when you don't get to go first, he is less likely to get shot off the board compared to say Magnus, and of course, he is a lot cheaper.

BTW, I can't see the attraction in cultists in this edition. A basic 5 man CSM costs just 15 more points per squad but has a 3+ save which becomes a 2+ save in cover. Its far more survivable compared to a 10 man cultist squad with a 6+ save. So, unless you need a big squad for bubble wrapping purposes... otherwise, if I really wanted to take a troop choice, I would rather go with CSM. What do you guys think?

Seeing as basic CSM are only good as a meat shield I would agree they do a bit better than Cultists at this due to their armor save. I mean, granted after using a unit of 25 mutant rabble plus enforcer I am actually warming up to the idea of basic CSM with a special weapon. They're relatively cheap, relatively tough, and relatively shooty. Plus, when the legion tactics come out it will be impossible for me to make world eater mutant rabble, so I should get used to the idea of CSM troops. Plus Plus, Rhinos are really good firing platforms and my Berzerkers could use some fire support honestly.

Would it be worth it to run a Renegade Knight in a 1k list? or should I just run more small units and Princes instead?

I'm thinking of bringing the RK, some Plague Marines, some CSM, a Palanquin Lord and a unit of Flamers to a free 1k tournament at my local GW store.

There aren't any restrictions on lists, other than two detachments max.

I'm leaning toward doing this, as there's less to keep track of, and there won't be as many opponents with big titan-like things. Of course, I know that there may well be opponents with poxwalker or hellblaster swarms [as I saw on a local FB group], things that would give a Knight trouble - IF they sign up for the afternoon flight rather than the morning...

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Anyone tried Belakor this edition? He flies 14. with warptime, and 6 attacks, he is kinda like a mini Magnus in that you can cast a warptime, then move 14 giving him a 28 inch move total and then charge a flyer (SR). His weapon does 3 damage.

Thing is, he can be hidden. So, when you don't get to go first, he is less likely to get shot off the board compared to say Magnus, and of course, he is a lot cheaper.

BTW, I can't see the attraction in cultists in this edition. A basic 5 man CSM costs just 15 more points per squad but has a 3+ save which becomes a 2+ save in cover. Its far more survivable compared to a 10 man cultist squad with a 6+ save. So, unless you need a big squad for bubble wrapping purposes... otherwise, if I really wanted to take a troop choice, I would rather go with CSM. What do you guys think?

Crucial thing about Belakor is he can't cast warptime on himself. Doesn't have the heretic astartes keyword.
Better off hiding and boosting something more scary forward.

Oh, I didn't realise Belakor can't cast warptime on himself. That certainly is a consideration. :(