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 Arkaine wrote:
We know, they were leaked hours ago. People using magnifying glasses on the White Dwarf magazine.

If you knew, why isn't it posted here.
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Relliable source, still some scope for magnifying glass misreading.

 Arkaine wrote:
We know, they were leaked hours ago. People using magnifying glasses on the White Dwarf magazine.

Hopefully not because those are crap (at least for my WE and NL).

Why on gods green earth can't a Hellforged contemptor take a twin las canon?

I urge all of you to contact FW and voice your concern over this stupidity. Seriously makes no sense what so ever.

Reroll morale? Ha. Right up there with free long range malanthropes and rerolls for all from the marine book. Good lord.

Also yeah my WB contemptors want their Lascannons.

My EC contemptor wants its friggin twin lascannon back.

EDIT: you know, the fluffy thing that EC were known for

Yea I have two twin las canon sons of horus contemptors waiting for coach to send them in. It's baffling that one of the most generic weapons isn't available for chaos contemptors.

As I said, please do email FW as I have.

Apparently Power fists got a points drop in the SM codex down to 12 points? Perhaps CSM will get the same treatment making "tactical" terminators decently costed and for cheaper fists on Berserker champs.

A bunch of stuff got reduced, including predators. But don't hold your breath chaos will get equal treatment.

What's with all this lascannon bandwagoning? Thee rules for these things have been out for ages. Have they just FAQ'd them out or something?

Apparent, from the news and rumors thread. This is based on the white dwarf issue coming out.

Legion Traits:

-Night lord trait should be : -1 ld by nl unit around you (6" and stack)
-Iron warriors : +1 in cover and -1 vs covers
-World Bearers : Reroll moral.
-Emperors Childrend : Always pile in first (WTF?)
-Black legion : +1 ld and a bonus for advancing and shooting (too small) (Can advance and then shoot? )
-World eaters : Pass all morale while in melee
-Alpha legion : Deep strike at 12" from enemies. (This probably means Alpha legion can infiltrate to 12 " away from enemies at the start)

Night lord stratagem is : -1 to hit.

The Iron warriors one looks good. Iron warriors havocs are going to be awesome!


Anyway, the print is small, so its possible they read it wrong.

Well the pile-in thing was wrong so there ya go.

Well, like I said. They were trying to use a magnifying glass to make out the small print. lol

I hope the black legion one does turn out to be can advance and then shoot besides the +1 leadership. That's a decent legion trait actually, because it turns plasma guns into assault weapons. Move, advance, then shoot plasma guns sounds awesome! The reach of a bunch of black legion chosen with in a Rhino armed with plasma guns is going to be sick. Deploy 3", move 12 " , advance d6, and then shoot plasma guns... lol That's a reach of 27+d6 inches for double tap range of a plasma chosen. lol

So, first turn if the Rhino pops smoke and than move advance 12+d6. By second turn, your plasma gun chosen's reach will probably cover just about the entire board already.

Is there a source/link for the point cost reductions?

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Well, like I said. They were trying to use a magnifying glass to make out the small print. lol

I hope the black legion one does turn out to be can advance and then shoot besides the +1 leadership. That's a decent legion trait actually, because it turns plasma guns into assault weapons. Move, advance, then shoot plasma guns sounds awesome! The reach of a bunch of black legion chosen with in a Rhino armed with plasma guns is going to be sick. Deploy 3", move 12 " , advance d6, and then shoot plasma guns... lol That's a reach of 27+d6 inches for double tap range of a plasma chosen. lol

So, first turn if the Rhino pops smoke and than move advance 12+d6. By second turn, your plasma gun chosen's reach will probably cover just about the entire board already.

Though keep in mind the transport rules don't allow them to move with the Rhino if they disembark that turn and they can't shoot from inside the Rhino anymore.

Wasting a turn to leave the vehicle just so you can shoot is kind of the balancing mechanism.


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Debilitate wrote:
Is there a source/link for the point cost reductions?

Yes. The Space Marine Codex.

Iron Warriors tactic released, it's the same as the Imperial fists: ignore cover and re-roll to wound vs buildings. Meh.

But at least the rumours thread was wrong so there is still hope for the other legions.

Also, the trait is trash: Ignore morale within 6" for Iron Warrior units. If only we had 50 man conscript units to abuse this with.

But the new power and artifact? Well what do we think:
Weaver of fates - Tzeentch Heretic Astartes unit gains +1 invul or gives a unit without an invul a 5++.
Fleshmetal Exoskelington - 2+ armour and heals 1 wound at the start of your turn.

Not bad, not bad at all. Trying to think what would make a good target for the Weaver of Fates power, something with a 5++ for a 4++ or something with no save or maybe give Magnus a 3++? The armour, I'm not sure on. Most weapons targeting a character wearing this will have AP-2/3/4 and I don't know if the model would survive long enough for the wound regen to kick in.

We have cultists? Ignore morale isn't bad.
The copy paste legion trait is so bad. Why.

(And I posted the other legion traits here, have since been confirmed separately, so more or less right with some reading error)

Fleshmetal is great. Fleshmetal prince was a star in 7th, but only when supported by troop Oblits with fnp. Nothing else IW is impressive now.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Iron Warriors tactic released, it's the same as the Imperial fists: ignore cover and re-roll to wound vs buildings. Meh.

But at least the rumours thread was wrong so there is still hope for the other legions.

Also, the trait is trash: Ignore morale within 6" for Iron Warrior units. If only we had 50 man conscript units to abuse this with.

But the new power and artifact? Well what do we think:
Weaver of fates - Tzeentch Heretic Astartes unit gains +1 invul or gives a unit without an invul a 5++.
Fleshmetal Exoskelington - 2+ armour and heals 1 wound at the start of your turn.

Not bad, not bad at all. Trying to think what would make a good target for the Weaver of Fates power, something with a 5++ for a 4++ or something with no save or maybe give Magnus a 3++? The armour, I'm not sure on. Most weapons targeting a character wearing this will have AP-2/3/4 and I don't know if the model would survive long enough for the wound regen to kick in.

Us Thousand Sons like that psyker power. Give Magnus a 3++ re-rolling 1s? Yes please.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Iron Warriors tactic released, it's the same as the Imperial fists: ignore cover and re-roll to wound vs buildings. Meh.

But at least the rumours thread was wrong so there is still hope for the other legions.

Also, the trait is trash: Ignore morale within 6" for Iron Warrior units. If only we had 50 man conscript units to abuse this with.

But the new power and artifact? Well what do we think:
Weaver of fates - Tzeentch Heretic Astartes unit gains +1 invul or gives a unit without an invul a 5++.
Fleshmetal Exoskelington - 2+ armour and heals 1 wound at the start of your turn.

Not bad, not bad at all. Trying to think what would make a good target for the Weaver of Fates power, something with a 5++ for a 4++ or something with no save or maybe give Magnus a 3++? The armour, I'm not sure on. Most weapons targeting a character wearing this will have AP-2/3/4 and I don't know if the model would survive long enough for the wound regen to kick in.

All I can say is that at least the Warlord Trait for Iron Warriors is appropriately named: "Cold and Bitter"

It's exactly how I feel after reading the preview article.

 nintura wrote:
Us Thousand Sons like that psyker power. Give Magnus a 3++ re-rolling 1s? Yes please.

Cue all the 2s like whenever I try to hit something on a 3+ re-rolling 1s (2nd game of 8th I ever ever played I rolled only 1s and 2s to hit after I charged a Leman Russ with my Zerkers, this was also back when it was our belief you rolled both rounds of combat at once!).


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Captyn_Bob wrote:
We have cultists? Ignore morale isn't bad.
The copy paste legion trait is so bad. Why.

(And I posted the other legion traits here, have since been confirmed separately, so more or less right with some reading error)

Fleshmetal is great. Fleshmetal prince was a star in 7th, but only when supported by troop Oblits with fnp. Nothing else IW is impressive now.

Cultists are no where near the efficiency of conscripts:
Conscripts are cheaper.
Conscripts have better saves.
Conscripts can be taken in 50 man units.
Cultists have better WS and BS.

I'd rather have conscripts for blob screening/objective holding units.

But I won't turn this into another conscript discussion.

I'm still hoping your Legion Traits you posted are wrong.

Fleshmetal Princes were OK back in 8th but i'm wondering how well it will do now that AP is a negative rather than a flat ignore at a certain level.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Fleshmetal Princes were OK back in 8th but i'm wondering how well it will do now that AP is a negative rather than a flat ignore at a certain level.

I very much agree with this and your previous post on the survivability. Anything that has a chance to really do any damage to your DP is going to put him on his 5++ anyways, so the 2+ doesn't help much. Things with that much -AP typically have multiple damage, which will either kill or cripple him (1-2 wounds left). And healing one of those wounds before being finished off will not often give you another turn of fighting/shooting/whatever.

It's not a bad Relic, by any means, it's just not a auto-include either, considering we haven't seen any of the generic CSM Relics.

Since it's not hard to hide characters, you generally get to choose what you are fighting with them, so you should be throwing a flesh metal prince into things without too many AP modifiers. You take half as much damage with a 2+ vs a 3+ against AP0 weapons, and you block twice as much with a 5+ than a 6+ vs AP3, so it's not a bad upgrade imo.

jcd386 wrote:
Since it's not hard to hide characters, you generally get to choose what you are fighting with them, so you should be throwing a flesh metal prince into things without too many AP modifiers. You take half as much damage with a 2+ vs a 3+ against AP0 weapons, and you block twice as much with a 5+ than a 6+ vs AP3, so it's not a bad upgrade imo.

Well, that's kind of the point I'm making, though. As you said, most of the time, I will get to choose what my DP is getting into. So I'm going to go after things with low/no -AP. In that case, I feel pretty confident in the DP's survivability and I think I'd prefer something to increase attacks or broaden his range of threats. Like a Daemon Weapon or something, should it come available in the CSM general Relics. (Axe of Blind Fury sure would be sweet on a DP this edition)

I wonder if the copy-paste is a sign that AL are gonna be evil (good) RG? I think I'd prefer mass infiltration over -1 to hit if I stand back like a cowardly loyalist. If they make the legion into spikey RG then I really hope we get a stratagem that allows to infiltrate more than one unit. Or we get to take Scouts straight out the loyalist book.... :-D

The Axe of Blind fury! Boy have I missed that monster! And it would now be viable to take it on Khorne DP since you can hide them now: 5+d6 S9 AP-3 attacks with a solid 3 damage would be so nice.

 mrhappyface wrote:
The Axe of Blind fury! Boy have I missed that monster! And it would now be viable to take it on Khorne DP since you can hide them now: 5+d6 S9 AP-3 attacks with a solid 3 damage would be so nice.

Where are you getting that info? Did more stuff get leaked somewhere?

Arachnofiend wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
The Axe of Blind fury! Boy have I missed that monster! And it would now be viable to take it on Khorne DP since you can hide them now: 5+d6 S9 AP-3 attacks with a solid 3 damage would be so nice.

Where are you getting that info? Did more stuff get leaked somewhere?

No, that's just the old Axe of Blind Fury stat line, Elroniel was saying how great it would be if they brought it back as a relic.

Probably World Eater exclusive if it returns. Having to wait until the second to last preview to see if the Word Bearers unique rules make up for that god awful trait is irritating.

 Eldarain wrote:
Probably World Eater exclusive if it returns. Having to wait until the second to last preview to see if the Word Bearers unique rules make up for that god awful trait is irritating.

+1Ld for all units? /s

It appears that emperor's children can obliterate conscript blobs in close combat, since there unique stratagem lets them attack again for every model they kill in the combat phase, and it seems to stack with death to the false emperor.

Y'all are insane. The Legion Tactic is excellent for the stereotypical Iron Warriors units and weapons. The trait basically allows a small amount of Conscript potential, and the relic is great.

Rydria wrote:It appears that emperor's children can obliterate conscript blobs in close combat, since there unique stratagem lets them attack again for every model they kill in the combat phase, and it seems to stack with death to the false emperor.

The strategem only works in the Shooting phase, not in close combat.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Y'all are insane. The Legion Tactic is excellent for the stereotypical Iron Warriors units and weapons. The trait basically allows a small amount of Conscript potential, and the relic is great.

So far, in the games I've played and seen, +1 to armour from cover has come up only a few times and I have yet to see someone take a building.

A small amount of conscript potential, cultists are still crap at surviving a stiff wind even with auto passing moral.

The relic is meh. The only things that have hurt my Lords or DPs so far have forced me to take an invulnerable save, i.e. AP-3, maybe it's different for others.