8th ed CHAOS tactica

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**Bluthusten**

So you guys thinking a Squad of 40 is the best for Cultists?

I wanted to play 2x20 and 1x 10....

but I'm gonna try out a big blob of 40, lets see what happens

**TasadarTheMadBear**

Bluthusten wrote:
So you guys thinking a Squad of 40 is the best for Cultists?

I wanted to play 2x20 and 1x 10....

but I'm gonna try out a big blob of 40, lets see what happens

Im thinking 1 squad of 40 and 2-5 squads of 10. I dont have nearly enough models yet though!

**doc1234**

Outside of the DP with talons, not seen much talk on HQ builds. Anyone been having any joy with specifics?

**Cilithan**

doc1234 wrote:
Outside of the DP with talons, not seen much talk on HQ builds. Anyone been having any joy with specifics?

I've used a Chaos Lord with Jump pack, combi-bolter and Black Mace. It's a decent threat/buffbot for it's 99 points. Fly gives it mobility and the ability to hurt flyers. Hunting AM heavy weapon teams or similar is a wel suited task.

The Daemon Prince and Daemon HQs such as Slaanesh Herald on Seeker Chariot are way more cost efficient through...

**Bluthusten**

The little Flying Circus:

-Prince
-Herald of Tzeentch
-3 screamer

Still works fine to me.

**doc1234**

So it sounds like the standard chaos lords may be dead?

**combatcotton**

The renegate lord on bike seems great imho.

**lindsay40k**

Bluthusten wrote:
So you guys thinking a Squad of 40 is the best for Cultists?

I wanted to play 2x20 and 1x 10....

but I'm gonna try out a big blob of 40, lets see what happens

I think both large and small have their roles, large Squads are great for banzai charges to draw fire followed by ToT, small Squads can give cheap coverage for dropzone denial & DotG camping.

**Red Corsair**

doc1234 wrote:
So it sounds like the standard chaos lords may be dead?

Define standard chaos lord. I feel he is a great choice and can be built to boost almost any list personally. He is also super cheap. A demon prince can also do his job but he cost more and you want him in the front line really, beauty of a chaos lord is his versatility. You can still make him a member of the vanguard and he can beat face, it really depends on the load out. Bare in mind you can't take relic weapons on sorcerers, named characters or demon princes as well.

**mrhappyface**

Why can't you take relics on sorcerers and daemon princes?

**Gordon Shumway**

You can take relic weapons on sorcerers, not princes since Princes have weapons that no relics replace. The weapons themselves say which weapon they replace. princes can, however, take non weapon relics. The elixir prince is pretty common.

**Kajaki War Pig**

Has anyone taken a look at trying to build up an entire brigade detachment? I'm finding it difficult in a 2k list, mainly because so much of our stuff costs so many points, but since command points add so much to our fighting power, I'd kinda like to get my paws on as many command points as possible haha.

Thoughts?

**Arachnofiend**

Gordon Shumway wrote:
You can take relic weapons on sorcerers, not princes since Princes have weapons that no relics replace. The weapons themselves say which weapon they replace. princes can, however, take non weapon relics. The elixir prince is pretty common.

I think they mean that you can't take the weapons that replace power weapons, like the Black Mace or Murder Sword on a Sorcerer since Sorcerers always come with force weapons. You could take a power weapon on a terminator sorcerer but then you're dual-wielding and that's kind of a waste.

Kajaki War Pig wrote:
Has anyone taken a look at trying to build up an entire brigade detachment? I'm finding it difficult in a 2k list, mainly because so much of our stuff costs so many points, but since command points add so much to our fighting power, I'd kinda like to get my paws on as many command points as possible haha.

Thoughts?

I put together an Emperor's Children brigade that I think is pretty effective:

You could probably shuffle points around to make one of those cultist squads a 40 man if you wanted.

**Captyn_Bob**

Kajaki War Pig wrote:
Has anyone taken a look at trying to build up an entire brigade detachment? I'm finding it difficult in a 2k list, mainly because so much of our stuff costs so many points, but since command points add so much to our fighting power, I'd kinda like to get my paws on as many command points as possible haha.

Thoughts?

It's easier if you use non legion stuff as there's more efficient choices but pure legion is doable.
6 units of cultists hurts, but isn't terribad.
Spare fast attack slots can be filled by spawn.

**Gordon Shumway**

Arachnofiend wrote:
Gordon Shumway wrote:
You can take relic weapons on sorcerers, not princes since Princes have weapons that no relics replace. The weapons themselves say which weapon they replace. princes can, however, take non weapon relics. The elixir prince is pretty common.

I think they mean that you can't take the weapons that replace power weapons, like the Black Mace or Murder Sword on a Sorcerer since Sorcerers always come with force weapons. You could take a power weapon on a terminator sorcerer but then you're dual-wielding and that's kind of a waste.

If that's what was meant, that's what should have been said. Also, regular sorcerers can take power weapons, just swap out their stock bolt pistol.

**TheSnowmanInHell**

Where are the rules for Sinic dreads?

**Arachnofiend**

Forge World FAQ. It's just a helbrute that can replace the multi-melta with two blastmasters.

**TheSnowmanInHell**

Awesome, thanks man!

**orkswubwub**

Can anyone explain why cultists are so good to me? I know if you run them alpha legion the -1 to hit at 4 points per model helps cap objectives but the low toughness at 3 and 6+ save with the low leadership means by time post-morale check you are losing essentially the entire unit in one swipe of a basic model (i.e. 1 flamer for 10 cultists) most of the time. They seem to have virtually 0 offensive capability - I don't see a competent opponent letting you draw any key units into melee with these guys.

I know there is the need for ObSec and bubble wrap but not sure why these critters seem integral to every competitive list - can you guys with more experience share?

**Slayer-Fan123**

If you're buying three minimum squads, you net yourself an extra few CP for that. Then you have the Strategem to recycle a near dead squad, and lastly the regular CSM squad is still garbage when you look at Cult Marines and Chosen and Terminators and Possessed and basically anything else.

120 points for a few extra CP and bubblewrap? It's a good choice.

**mrhappyface**

orkswubwub wrote:
Can anyone explain why cultists are so good to me? I know if you run them alpha legion the -1 to hit at 4 points per model helps cap objectives but the low toughness at 3 and 6+ save with the low leadership means by time post-morale check you are losing essentially the entire unit in one swipe of a basic model (i.e. 1 flamer for 10 cultists) most of the time. They seem to have virtually 0 offensive capability - I don't see a competent opponent letting you draw any key units into melee with these guys.

I know there is the need for ObSec and bubble wrap but not sure why these critters seem integral to every competitive list - can you guys with more experience share?

We need CP so we fill battalion detachments with the cheapest troop we have: it's a 120pt tax for +3CP and some objective grabbers.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, big squads are better for denying deep strike should you not get first turn.

**Red Corsair**

Gordon Shumway wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Gordon Shumway wrote:
You can take relic weapons on sorcerers, not princes since Princes have weapons that no relics replace. The weapons themselves say which weapon they replace. princes can, however, take non weapon relics. The elixir prince is pretty common.

I think they mean that you can't take the weapons that replace power weapons, like the Black Mace or Murder Sword on a Sorcerer since Sorcerers always come with force weapons. You could take a power weapon on a terminator sorcerer but then you're dual-wielding and that's kind of a waste.

If that's what was meant, that's what should have been said. Also, regular sorcerers can take power weapons, just swap out their stock bolt pistol.

I thought it was fairly obvious to be honest, especially when we were discussing relic WEAPONS. But what the hay I'll break it down into small pieces so you can digest it. Sure you can hamfist a relic weapon onto a sorcerer but it's not even remotely worth it since they have less attacks that hit less often then a lord AND your paying points for a force weapon you then will never use and you miss the opportunity to take a combi weapon or save points and keep your bolt pistol. The ability to fire a combi melta and demon shell after a smite far outclasses a few swings with a relic. Swings that you then cannot have on your chaos lord who does it better anyway.

Now, having said that, if you have a home made sorcerer that you converted who leads your army and it's worth those costs to feel good fielding him then I am all for that. Strictly as a tactic however it's not a stellar move.

**ZergSmasher**

Kajaki War Pig wrote:
Has anyone taken a look at trying to build up an entire brigade detachment? I'm finding it difficult in a 2k list, mainly because so much of our stuff costs so many points, but since command points add so much to our fighting power, I'd kinda like to get my paws on as many command points as possible haha.

Thoughts?

I fiddled around in Battlescribe and made a World Eaters brigade detachment that uses only models I own (or could easily make with spare bits). It's not very optimized, but it shows that it is possible:

Spoiler:

I would take more Cultists instead of CSM, but I don't own any more. Cultists may be going on my "to buy" list soon, as I'm coming to realize their value for absorbing Smite damage and bubble-wrapping more valuable units. I may also see about getting a couple of Maulerfiends with Lashers, as they seem pretty good if not overwhelmingly so. I'm on the fence about Raptors vs. Bikes; both seem to have pros and cons. In a WE brigade, those Command Points can let a unit of Berzerkers triple attack as many as three times per game and still get a few command rerolls besides, so I think it's worth trying to make a brigade for them.

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

doc1234 wrote:
Outside of the DP with talons, not seen much talk on HQ builds. Anyone been having any joy with specifics?

AL Chaos Lord on bike with Blade of the Hydra and 2 combi bolters . Fast, Durable, Cheap can put a lot of hurt on horde units from afar, and can mince Charcters in CC espically if you cast Diabolic Strength on him (makes Him S7 AP-2 D2 with 7A on average). Plus he can benefit from Boons which allow him to improve. Having a 2+/3++ is really good and if you cast weaver on him hes just 2++. 6W and T5 to start means most boons will push him to higher brackets for weapons.

**Gordon Shumway**

Red Corsair wrote:
Gordon Shumway wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Gordon Shumway wrote:
You can take relic weapons on sorcerers, not princes since Princes have weapons that no relics replace. The weapons themselves say which weapon they replace. princes can, however, take non weapon relics. The elixir prince is pretty common.

I think they mean that you can't take the weapons that replace power weapons, like the Black Mace or Murder Sword on a Sorcerer since Sorcerers always come with force weapons. You could take a power weapon on a terminator sorcerer but then you're dual-wielding and that's kind of a waste.

If that's what was meant, that's what should have been said. Also, regular sorcerers can take power weapons, just swap out their stock bolt pistol.

I thought it was fairly obvious to be honest, especially when we were discussing relic WEAPONS. But what the hay I'll break it down into small pieces so you can digest it. Sure you can hamfist a relic weapon onto a sorcerer but it's not even remotely worth it since they have less attacks that hit less often then a lord AND your paying points for a force weapon you then will never use and you miss the opportunity to take a combi weapon or save points and keep your bolt pistol. The ability to fire a combi melta and demon shell after a smite far outclasses a few swings with a relic. Swings that you then cannot have on your chaos lord who does it better anyway.

Now, having said that, if you have a home made sorcerer that you converted who leads your army and it's worth those costs to feel good fielding him then I am all for that. Strictly as a tactic however it's not a stellar move.

I wasn't making the case it was good, just that it was allowed, sorry if you misinterpreted it otherwise. No need to go into the condescending territory.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
doc1234 wrote:
Outside of the DP with talons, not seen much talk on HQ builds. Anyone been having any joy with specifics?

AL Chaos Lord on bike with Blade of the Hydra and 2 combi bolters . Fast, Durable, Cheap can put a lot of hurt on horde units from afar, and can mince Charcters in CC espically if you cast Diabolic Strength on him (makes Him S7 AP-2 D2 with 7A on average). Plus he can benefit from Boons which allow him to improve. Having a 2+/3++ is really good and if you cast weaver on him hes just 2++. 6W and T5 to start means most boons will push him to higher brackets for weapons.

I gotta say, this idea is just fantastic and I might steal it for myself.

**lindsay40k**

doc1234 wrote:
Outside of the DP with talons, not seen much talk on HQ builds. Anyone been having any joy with specifics?

Got some Hellstriders on order to make Steed Sorcerers & Lords, going with Combi-Melta or Flamer loadouts dependent on BS to leverage ability to Advance & Charge same turn.

Plan is to use Nurgling deployments to force DS denial infiltrators to stake their claims early, and then deploy these guys with Fiends where they can get some turn one charges. Deliberately aim to leave something alive that can't fall back due to Fiends, and then play Warptime bait & switch with Familiars so that a Dreadclaw full of Possessed or Berzerkers can come in from an unexpected angle. Or maybe just drop in Chosen and Warptime the Dreadclaw into the middle of a load of units.

**Gordon Shumway**

Can we take multiple artifacts from different legions if we have multiple Legion detatchments with the gifts of Chaos strategum? Like say I have a NL detatchment and an AL detatchment and pay a command point to get an extra artifact--could I get the claws for one character in the NL and the blade for a different one in the AL? It's sorta beardy, but I don't see why not.

**jcd386**

Gordon Shumway wrote:
Can we take multiple artifacts from different legions if we have multiple Legion detatchments with the gifts of Chaos strategum? Like say I have a NL detatchment and an AL detatchment and pay a command point to get an extra artifact--could I get the claws for one character in the NL and the blade for a different one in the AL? It's sorta beardy, but I don't see why not.

Yes you can do this.

**Captyn_Bob**

Gordon Shumway wrote:
Can we take multiple artifacts from different legions if we have multiple Legion detatchments with the gifts of Chaos strategum? Like say I have a NL detatchment and an AL detatchment and pay a command point to get an extra artifact--could I get the claws for one character in the NL and the blade for a different one in the AL? It's sorta beardy, but I don't see why not.

Yeah seems OK. (But only Chaos Space marines, so not Death Guard or Thousand Sons or in the future Daemons.)