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I'm strating to think it might be worth actually focusing a daemon prince on actually staying alive. Last few games i'v had he's just been whittled down rather quick.
Thinking this is where the IW trait actually comes into play!
** = ignore wounds on
Take the +1w 6** trait
Slannesh and 5** power
Flesh metal
So you have 9 wounds 2+ (5++ daemon) 6** - regaining a wound each turn
Then with the power is 2+(5++ daemon) 6** 5** - regaining a wound each turn
Then drop a cmd point on the IW strat its 2+(5++ daemon) 6** 5** 6** - regaining a wound each turn !!!
I'm really considering this over the exiler and dia strength so it actually hangs in there e.g. the lastability will trump the increased damage output over time.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/26 06:49:15
Latro_ wrote: I'm strating to think it might be worth actually focusing a daemon prince on actually staying alive. Last few games i'v had he's just been whittled down rather quick.
Thinking this is where the IW trait actually comes into play!
** = ignore wounds on
Take the +1w 6** trait
Slannesh and 5** power
Flesh metal
So you have 9 wounds 2+ (5++ daemon) 6** - regaining a wound each turn
Then with the power is 2+(5++ daemon) 6** 5** - regaining a wound each turn
Then drop a cmd point on the IW strat its 2+(5++ daemon) 6** 5** 6** - regaining a wound each turn !!!
I'm really considering this over the exiler and dia strength so it actually hangs in there e.g. the lastability will trump the increased damage output over time.
I think that could be a good variant, but i think its a waste going both delightful agonies and unholy fortitude, you can get a lot more bang for your buck using only one. the exoskeleton would be nice if your willing to make it IW over another legion. I was putting an EC list together with unholy fortitude and dia strength on the DP, i think it should take either of the FNP traits on its list either way though, and that would make the IW stratagem useless on him. But my DP isnt the biggest threat on this list anyway..
I'm running a pretty nasty Night Lords army focusing on morale debuffs. Everything has a way to drop leadership, it's all fast, it's pretty effective. I want to add a detachment of chaos furies for the extra morale hit and being jump infantry, they synch up well. I'm not sure if I want to have Be'Lakor leading them. He's got a -1 leadership buff so it seems like a given, but damn is he expensive compared to princes, has fewer wounds, and he can't take daemon powers like a regular daemon prince, which means he competes with powers with my sorcerers. Would I be better off just taking a regular prince with wings? I want to stick with a prince of some kind for the rerolls with my Heldrakes and Warp talons.
Badablack wrote: I'm running a pretty nasty Night Lords army focusing on morale debuffs. Everything has a way to drop leadership, it's all fast, it's pretty effective. I want to add a detachment of chaos furies for the extra morale hit and being jump infantry, they synch up well. I'm not sure if I want to have Be'Lakor leading them. He's got a -1 leadership buff so it seems like a given, but damn is he expensive compared to princes, has fewer wounds, and he can't take daemon powers like a regular daemon prince, which means he competes with powers with my sorcerers. Would I be better off just taking a regular prince with wings? I want to stick with a prince of some kind for the rerolls with my Heldrakes and Warp talons.
Well, he's got a re-rollable 4++, which is better than having the Tzeentch AND Slaanesh powers cast on him. His weapon is an absolute beatstick, leave Storm Shield guys to others or Death Hex them or just brute force them with all six attacks and he'll be sorted. He'll be getting up close, so he'll probably be tempted to Smite with one of his powers. Really struggling to see the downside here, as long as he doesn't jump into the middle of a Grey Knights army he looks fine to me!
Latro_ wrote: One thing that stands out to me from the renegades list is the maleific lord
30pts decent enough stats 4++ and smite.
anyone thought about a spam army of them.
You haven't been reading the comp tournament chaos lists have you?
lol no, hit me up.
to be honest i was just gonna run 3 for some psy defense in a superheavy list but now the gamer in me is thinking screw the superheavies i'll just take these guys
Also: I got a box of Rubricae and I want to add some Tzeentchian troops to my Word Bearers.
My son and I have started gaming this edition. He likes chaos and we've considered Word Bearers but also want to have some Tzeentch influence. How are you running your Word Bearers? Are you choosing Tzeentch for their mark of chaos and Word Bearers for their legion? I just picked up the book and we've been pointing up some of our models to see what our starter army would look like.
Edit: Grammar check!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/26 16:57:26
Latro_ wrote: One thing that stands out to me from the renegades list is the maleific lord
30pts decent enough stats 4++ and smite.
anyone thought about a spam army of them.
You haven't been reading the comp tournament chaos lists have you?
lol no, hit me up.
to be honest i was just gonna run 3 for some psy defense in a superheavy list but now the gamer in me is thinking screw the superheavies i'll just take these guys
From what I've seen, a lot of the chaos comp lists that aren't horror spam have been filled with cheap R&H detachments with malefic lord smite spam and mutant tables. With the nerf to horrors I think we'll be seeing more of these guys.
Of course, with the less than optimal R&H artillery now, CP farming is all they're really used for (smite spam is just a bonus).
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
Sersi wrote: True but with 8 wounds it should trigger at least once per game on average.
You don't roll for every wound loss, you just roll once at the end of any phase they took damage. So far I have rolled 3 times and not gotten crazed but yet managed to explode twice
It's a sweet ability but you don't get nearly ad many rolls as your assuming, generally it's shot to death and you never roll.
Hey ya'll, I've been spending the last couple weeks researching what I would like to collect as my next army, and I thought I'd come asking for some advice
I had originally decided I liked AdMech, due to liking the Kastelan Robot and Dunecrawler models, and the idea of making a hi-tech robot army. It generally meant taking a bit of an imperial soup list though, and I already play against 2 space marine armies and one imperial guard... thought it might be a bit samey. (My current army is Orks, fyi).
So I considered converting a Dark Mechanicus army, and focusing on demon engines and hellforged units. I was already going to use a forgeworld siege automata as a Leviathan Dreadnought, which fortunately Chaos also has access too! But I was just wondering how "good" (if not competitive) an army made up of a mix of the following units could be? I would like at least one unit that could be compatible with a kastelan robot conversion (I guess helforged contemptors would be the ideal? Or helbrutes, but I already like their model haha)
I'd appreciate any tips or advice. If this turns out to be an unadvisable idea, then I will probably just stick to an AdMech list. I suspect it would be much more straighforward lol.
kastelan robots are way smaller then any of the models on that list except the brutes, contemptors would be close but are still substantially bulkier.
As for whats worth taking, all of it is good. Just take what you think looks and plays the coolest. Thats the thing i like most about this edition, everything is viable. Even posessed!!!
On another note.
I hear a lot of crap talk about normal CSM but so far mine have been doing crazy work. I have been taking min squads of 5 with a plasma gun and a champion with a power weapon and plasma pistol which comes to only 90pts. In my last game two units managed to kill a sydonian dragoon, and finish off a datasmith, kataphron destroyer, a vanguard unit and get me line breaker. It was a 1000 point game but they don't draw much (any) fire if you run them up through terrain since nobody wants to waste shots on 2+ save marines and yet they are a major pain and have obsec. I love cultists but by comparison they don't contribute worth a damn beyond early game screening. I don't need cheap back field units since I have guns back there already, so their scoring potential is moot.
Something I am noticing about 8th is that you want everything in your list to have offensive punch. Things get wrecked fast and relying on a few heavy hitters with loads of cultists is a win big lose big strategy. Sure oblits and terminators wreck face when they drop but if your opponent survives and kills them in return you lost if you are relying on cultists to be the glue. Or even when doing well in a game of attrition, it's more point efficient to have a cheap 5 man unit clean up survivors later otherwise you leave PITA units alive or your main hitters become spread way to thin.
Bare in mind I am not talking about world eaters or emperors children here, i am talking about any army using are basic troops. I am sure we can get by without them but I have seen very little respect for the average traitor marine which I think is solid and a lot of fun to use now.
BTW can anyone tell me where to find going to ground in the rules, I know I read about it on my full read through but I can't find it now and I am away from my book currently. Is it in the advanced or terrain section?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/26 18:52:47
Red Corsair wrote: kastelan robots are way smaller then any of the models on that list except the brutes, contemptors would be close but are still substantially bulkier.
As for whats worth taking, all of it is good. Just take what you think looks and plays the coolest. Thats the thing i like most about this edition, everything is viable. Even posessed!!!
Oh really? I didn't expect them to be substantially smaller, as Helbrutes, Decimator and Contemptor are all on the same 60mm base size as the castelan.
Though after going through the codex, I did also consider converting a kastelan into a HQ choice, such as a demon prince.
May have to rethink things if the sizes are that hugely different. Thanks
Kastelans are about the same size as helbrutes and slightly shorter than contemptors, but the same general size. You can definitely run them as either with the proper conversions. I can put up some comparison shots if you want, using a similar dark mechanicus army I had with converted contemptors and dark eldar pain engines.
Badablack wrote: Kastelans are about the same size as helbrutes and slightly shorter than contemptors, but the same general size. You can definitely run them as either with the proper conversions. I can put up some comparison shots if you want, using a similar dark mechanicus army I had with converted contemptors and dark eldar pain engines.
Latro_ wrote: One thing that stands out to me from the renegades list is the maleific lord
30pts decent enough stats 4++ and smite.
anyone thought about a spam army of them.
You haven't been reading the comp tournament chaos lists have you?
lol no, hit me up.
to be honest i was just gonna run 3 for some psy defense in a superheavy list but now the gamer in me is thinking screw the superheavies i'll just take these guys
From what I've seen, a lot of the chaos comp lists that aren't horror spam have been filled with cheap R&H detachments with malefic lord smite spam and mutant tables. With the nerf to horrors I think we'll be seeing more of these guys.
Of course, with the less than optimal R&H artillery now, CP farming is all they're really used for (smite spam is just a bonus).
It's worth mentioning that the character abuse armies like malefic lord spam and the culexis spam that recently won a tourney are going to be addressed soon according to the FLG guys. I think the malefic lord lists could survive changes to how character targeting works but I also expect them to get a points bump so...
Also: I got a box of Rubricae and I want to add some Tzeentchian troops to my Word Bearers.
My son and I have started gaming this edition. He likes chaos and we've considered Word Bearers but also want to have some Tzeentch influence. How are you running your Word Bearers? Are you choosing Tzeentch for their mark of chaos and Word Bearers for their legion? I just picked up the book and we've been pointing up some of our models to see what our starter army would look like.
Edit: Grammar check!
Well, I went Word Bearers for their aesthetics and abundance of organic gribbly Daemonic textures to paint. As a polytheist Legion, I want to make sure I've got a fairly even mix of Marked units. Possessed are definitely a good choice for the Tzeentch delegation - easily converted with Tzaangor parts, look awesome, and can benefit from a very nice +1 invulnerable saves spell and the Changeling's excellent aura ability. Nothing wrong with that. I had plans for a Heavy Bolter Havocs unit, but that was in the previous edition where the Icon of Flame specifically buffed those weapons. At the very least, I'll be doing the various Daemonic infantry for him, as they'll have access to the above spell, buff, and and extra strength buff from a Herald. Probably a squad of Flamer Havocs/Chosen, as they'll just be given the Rubric weapons.
In general, I've found the most useful thing is knowing where to apply Warptime. Taking twenty marines with a couple of Flamers and Advancing twice with them completely took the initiative in a smallish game where an opponent planned a Deep Strike. I've recently built a Dreadclaw Drop Pod out of a Tyranid Spore, and it's performing well as a Chosen delivery system that can be Warptimed into the middle of a mass of units and raise hell whilst it's former passengers double-tap with Plasma.
Whilst our Legion Trait is not widely considered powerful, our Warlord Trait seems extremely handy in a game of auras. A Lord can oversee a large firebase, and a Dark Apostle can shout encouragement into a fairly wide range of melees. I try to start off with a firebase of two Havocs Squads with a couple of Cultist Squads for bubble wrap, and with the rest of the army make it a Battalion and a Spearhead.
I'm not convinced that our Summoning schtick is especially useful in Matched Play, especially now that finishing deploying first doesn't give you a high chance of taking first turn. However, I am interested in our capability to reliably bring in Be'lakor, a Keeper of Secrets, or a horde of Plaguebearers. Possessed used to be our Legion Troops unit, and whilst they now remain Elites they are certainly a decent unit.
While fiddling arounfnwith my Iron warriors i came up with this as a joke to represemt a Iron warriors breaching unit but when I showed it to my buddy he said that it seem lile.itnwpuld.actually be fun to face so I present to for you veiwing pleasure the single drop deplpyment shenanigans of a Iron warriors breacher unit
Chaos Hellwright on Dark Abeyant [9 PL, 178pts]: Flamer, Infernal axe, Soulburner pistol, Voidcutter
. Dark Abeyant: Warpfire lance
+ Elites +
Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 253pts]: Havoc launcher
. Left Arm: Hellforged deathclaw, Soulburner
. Right Arm: Hellforged deathclaw, Soulburner
Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 253pts]: Havoc launcher
. Left Arm: Hellforged deathclaw, Soulburner
. Right Arm: Hellforged deathclaw, Soulburner
++ Total: [98 PL, 2000pts] ++
By no means is it optomised, but dropping a single model as your entire deployment has got to be one of the funniest things I've seen at this point in 8th. I wpuld.ne curious to see a more optimized version on it if someone has the mond or time for it but with the whole point being that the entire force is inside the mastodon I dont see much tonbe done with the list.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/27 00:56:24
Vorradis 75th "Crimson Cavaliers" 8.7k
The enemies of Mankind may employ dark sciences or alien weapons beyond Humanity's ken, but such deviance comes to naught in the face of honest human intolerance back by a sufficient number of guns.
Ir0njack wrote: While fiddling arounfnwith my Iron warriors i came up with this as a joke to represemt a Iron warriors breaching unit but when I showed it to my buddy he said that it seem lile.itnwpuld.actually be fun to face so I present to for you veiwing pleasure the single drop deplpyment shenanigans of a Iron warriors breacher unit
Chaos Hellwright on Dark Abeyant [9 PL, 178pts]: Flamer, Infernal axe, Soulburner pistol, Voidcutter
. Dark Abeyant: Warpfire lance
+ Elites +
Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 253pts]: Havoc launcher
. Left Arm: Hellforged deathclaw, Soulburner
. Right Arm: Hellforged deathclaw, Soulburner
Hellforged Contemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 253pts]: Havoc launcher
. Left Arm: Hellforged deathclaw, Soulburner
. Right Arm: Hellforged deathclaw, Soulburner
++ Total: [98 PL, 2000pts] ++
By no means is it optomised, but dropping a single model as your entire deployment has got to be one of the funniest things I've seen at this point in 8th. I wpuld.ne curious to see a more optimized version on it if someone has the mond or time for it but with the whole point being that the entire force is inside the mastodon I dont see much tonbe done with the list.
Haha, nice. I may take some notes for my Daemon Engine list I'm trying to think up
Don't you need 2 more Elite units in the Vanguard Detachment to make it legal? As it stands it looks like you only have 1 of the required 3 compulsory Elites.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Don't you need 2 more Elite units in the Vanguard Detachment to make it legal? As it stands it looks like you only have 1 of the required 3 compulsory Elites.
He does have 3 elites in total though, I think it's all meant to be in one single vanguard detachment, but battlescribe has introduced some errors. I don't use it myself, I don't like the way it formats stuff, but I suspect that's what's happened.
Played in a competitive 32 man RTT earlier today. Was super well run and the people playing in it were great. Wound up placing 5th because I left a space between 2 models (gah!) and the guy I lost to won the whole thing.
Magnus was literally everywhere. To put it in perspective, 4 out of the top 6 players had Magnus. Not the top 6 Chaos players. The top 6 players at the entire event.
Super amazing units that I saw on multiple tables/played myself:
Magnus (duh)
Malefic lords (duh)
Changeling
Noise marines
Oblits
Warp Talons
Maulerfiends
Bloat Drones
Berserkers
Fire Raptor
I want to try out the noise marines. Still not sold on the Warp Talons but better players than I like them a lot. Also not sold on the fire raptor.
luke1705 wrote: Played in a competitive 32 man RTT earlier today. Was super well run and the people playing in it were great. Wound up placing 5th because I left a space between 2 models (gah!) and the guy I lost to won the whole thing.
Magnus was literally everywhere. To put it in perspective, 4 out of the top 6 players had Magnus. Not the top 6 Chaos players. The top 6 players at the entire event.
Super amazing units that I saw on multiple tables/played myself:
Magnus (duh)
Malefic lords (duh)
Changeling
Noise marines
Oblits
Warp Talons
Maulerfiends
Bloat Drones
Berserkers
Fire Raptor
I want to try out the noise marines. Still not sold on the Warp Talons but better players than I like them a lot. Also not sold on the fire raptor.
So are Noise marines and Berserkers are looking to be chaos best troops ? (or where they alpha legion zerkers?) You didn't mention brimstones did the 1pt increase really hit that hard ?
Chaos Leviathan dread does not get "chapter tactics" because it's not a hellbrute.
Space marine Leviathan dread DOES get "chapter tactics" because it's a dreadnaught.
Am I right here?
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See my gallery for Chapterhouse's Tervigon, fully painted.
Chaos Leviathan dread does not get "chapter tactics" because it's not a hellbrute.
Space marine Leviathan dread DOES get "chapter tactics" because it's a dreadnaught.
luke1705 wrote: Played in a competitive 32 man RTT earlier today. Was super well run and the people playing in it were great. Wound up placing 5th because I left a space between 2 models (gah!) and the guy I lost to won the whole thing.
Magnus was literally everywhere. To put it in perspective, 4 out of the top 6 players had Magnus. Not the top 6 Chaos players. The top 6 players at the entire event.
Super amazing units that I saw on multiple tables/played myself:
Magnus (duh)
Malefic lords (duh)
Changeling
Noise marines
Oblits
Warp Talons
Maulerfiends
Bloat Drones
Berserkers
Fire Raptor
I want to try out the noise marines. Still not sold on the Warp Talons but better players than I like them a lot. Also not sold on the fire raptor.
Yup. Magnus moving 32" round one is a thing.
My T'au Army has faced it twice and dropped him turn one both times, but there is no question that he scares the willies outta me.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Turn one Magnus charge is like the same from Swarmlord - frightening rushdown the first time, but when you realise that he's killing one unit max and then he's a piñata for your shooting, not so bad. In both cases, probably better to use them to get a different unit in a first turn charge and seek cover so he can make his own charge with proper support.
Far better to have Magnus throw in a deepstriking Warp Talons unit and have a bunch of individual Fiends make supporting charges. If ONE of them makes it, then the WTs can't be disengaged from and are free to pile in to the remaining victim and then raise hell in deep insertion tactics next turn.
RE Fire Raptors - I have one as a conversion project and whilst I love the look for a Reaper Battery, it seems terrible compared to the Heavy Bolters. I mean, Reaper Autocannon is a -1D nerf compared to twin AC (which makes our Helbrutes an absolute joke compared with Mortis), and Reaper Battery is a twin RAC with one of them having -50% shots. There's few targets against which it even has parity with the QHB, and nothing it's better at shooting, and it's MORE EXPENSIVE. It's not even got the range advantage it has over Assault Cannons. I can't even.
I did neglect to mention brims. They're still great but not exclusively used because obsec on the cultists is so good. Most people aren't paying the second daemons HQ tax to get obsec brims since you just grab an apostle + sorceror and your CSM cultists are obsec.
I also didn't mention cultists, but they are amazing for the points. Especially as alpha legion (which is what literally everyone is now, competitively).
I did see one guy running 100 or so poxwalkers, and I expect that when the DG codex comes out, they'll be even more viable. Right now, if they were 5 PPM I'd probably run them instead of the cultists, but the cultist stratagems are too good.
Magnus turn 1 charging is usually a noob trap. Much more often, he lets another unit (maulerfiend, for example) get extra movement, sometimes to charge. The issue is that leaving the changeling aura lets him die. This happened to the guy running 100 poxwalkers twice (to be fair, both times Magnus didn't have the +1 invuln up for at least half his wounds lost).
Going into deny range with Magnus is also riskier than you might think. Especially in a mirror matchup, which will happen a lot until more codices get released.
