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Hi everyone,
So I'm still trying to see if it would be possible to make a Dark Mechanicus / Daemon Engine army with chaos, and I'm struggling a little with all the options I have available. So I thought I'd ask a couple questions here and see where it goes!

1) Maulerfiend vs Blood Slaughterer. They both seem fairly comparable (which is good, as I'd hate forgeworld to be OP all the time) but is there a current reasoning behind choosing one of them over the other? Slaughterer seems to be faster because of scuttling gait, and more accurate with WS3, but maulerfiend is tougher? The other difference leads me on to question 2 -

2) Gods. The blood slaughterer is khorne-only, while the maulerfiend can be any god. But I'm struggling to find the benefits for each god choice. There doesn't seem to be any universal bonuses for each one (like there is for legion traits), so is the only thing it affects that certain psychic powers can only effect certain gods? But those powers seemed to be infantry only anyway, so the maulerfiend wouldn't benefit... The only other thing I could find was the Changeling (which is in a different codex entirely, but I assume it still works the same) that only gives it's aura to other Tzeentch worshippers...


So yeh, mauler vs slaughterer, and if anyone could help me with the benefits of the gods I'd appreciate it. Chaos has sooooo many options!

You pretty much hit it on the head. The Khorne one is more killy but not able to benefit from the changeling. None of the strategems for daemon engines are god specific. So basically it boils down to if you want to put it in a specific detachment (emperors children or World Eaters). No real benefits to doing so except that if you already have an alpha legion detachment and you want this dude to be World Eaters or something else, you'd have to put him in a different detachment to retain your legion traits for the alpha legion detachment.

Personally, I'm not a fan of him being unable to fall back, and in this case I think the added durability of Tzeentch is better than the added offensive output, which really only is because of his extra attacks since the maulerfiend wounds T6 and T7 more easily, and you lose a lot of the difference between WS 3+ and WS 4+ if you use the stratagem to give re-rolls to the daemon engine. You could use prescience, but that is usually better served on a shooting unit like oblits or noise marines.

Also worth pointing out that the slaughterer is 28 points more. It's not a ton, but even if they cost the same I'd probably go with the Maulerfiend. The extra points just seal the deal IMO.

That being said, they're both very good and if you like one over the other, you'll find they both do really well. It's like cultists vs poxwalkers. Poxwalkers are fearless, can regenerate models, can be T4 and always have a 5+ FNP, but are a little more expensive. Cultists are cheaper and can regenerate models for CP, plus can get legion tactics and are more mobile if you spend more CP, but die to a stiff breeze. Can't go wrong with either.

Niiru wrote:
Hi everyone,
So I'm still trying to see if it would be possible to make a Dark Mechanicus / Daemon Engine army with chaos, and I'm struggling a little with all the options I have available. So I thought I'd ask a couple questions here and see where it goes!

1) Maulerfiend vs Blood Slaughterer. They both seem fairly comparable (which is good, as I'd hate forgeworld to be OP all the time) but is there a current reasoning behind choosing one of them over the other? Slaughterer seems to be faster because of scuttling gait, and more accurate with WS3, but maulerfiend is tougher? The other difference leads me on to question 2 -

2) Gods. The blood slaughterer is khorne-only, while the maulerfiend can be any god. But I'm struggling to find the benefits for each god choice. There doesn't seem to be any universal bonuses for each one (like there is for legion traits), so is the only thing it affects that certain psychic powers can only effect certain gods? But those powers seemed to be infantry only anyway, so the maulerfiend wouldn't benefit... The only other thing I could find was the Changeling (which is in a different codex entirely, but I assume it still works the same) that only gives it's aura to other Tzeentch worshippers...


So yeh, mauler vs slaughterer, and if anyone could help me with the benefits of the gods I'd appreciate it. Chaos has sooooo many options!

I was looking at the Kastellans again for you, I just played a game with my brother who was running them against my cons of horus contemptor and they are similar height but quite a bit less bulky IMO but they tower over the helbrute who is thicker but alot shorter. I would say they fit best as helbrutes, and look way cooler if done right IMO since I never liked the fleshy look of the new helbrute personally. Decimators are HUGE by the way. I own 4 and I remember when I first ordered one and when it arrived it was twice the size I imagined it lol I would totally recommend that model to anyone it is so awesome and fun to pose. I think you could make your own if you used sentinal legs and got some larger paldrons and bulked out a kastellan but it would probably get expensive.

Has anyone been using noise marines by the way? I'm wondering if the blasmaster is worth the points to upgrade.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Hi everyone,
So I'm still trying to see if it would be possible to make a Dark Mechanicus / Daemon Engine army with chaos, and I'm struggling a little with all the options I have available. So I thought I'd ask a couple questions here and see where it goes!

1) Maulerfiend vs Blood Slaughterer. They both seem fairly comparable (which is good, as I'd hate forgeworld to be OP all the time) but is there a current reasoning behind choosing one of them over the other? Slaughterer seems to be faster because of scuttling gait, and more accurate with WS3, but maulerfiend is tougher? The other difference leads me on to question 2 -

2) Gods. The blood slaughterer is khorne-only, while the maulerfiend can be any god. But I'm struggling to find the benefits for each god choice. There doesn't seem to be any universal bonuses for each one (like there is for legion traits), so is the only thing it affects that certain psychic powers can only effect certain gods? But those powers seemed to be infantry only anyway, so the maulerfiend wouldn't benefit... The only other thing I could find was the Changeling (which is in a different codex entirely, but I assume it still works the same) that only gives it's aura to other Tzeentch worshippers...


So yeh, mauler vs slaughterer, and if anyone could help me with the benefits of the gods I'd appreciate it. Chaos has sooooo many options!

I was looking at the Kastellans again for you, I just played a game with my brother who was running them against my cons of horus contemptor and they are similar height but quite a bit less bulky IMO but they tower over the helbrute who is thicker but alot shorter. I would say they fit best as helbrutes, and look way cooler if done right IMO since I never liked the fleshy look of the new helbrute personally. Decimators are HUGE by the way. I own 4 and I remember when I first ordered one and when it arrived it was twice the size I imagined it lol I would totally recommend that model to anyone it is so awesome and fun to pose. I think you could make your own if you used sentinal legs and got some larger paldrons and bulked out a kastellan but it would probably get expensive.

Hi, thanks I appreciate that My current thinking is along the lines of -

Helbrutes or Contemptors (using kastellan) - Helbrutes are cheaper, but also flimsier. Not sure if I would fit them with Fist+Scourge, or give them some weapon options and turn them into a weapon platform. I'd probably give the contemptor two CC weapons and two soul burners. But thats 160pts for helbrute vs 250 for contemptor.

Deredeo or Leviathan (using Thanatar) - Butcher Array+Havoc Launcher vs Butcher Array+Grav Flux. Leviathan is a bit tougher, and a lot killier especially against hordes, but also 100 points more expensive.

Maulerfiend or Blood Slaughterer (using blood slaughterer model either way, I like it haha) - Like I said before. Slaughterer is a little pricier but faster and a bit killier, but also easier to kill. Close thing. If I do make this list I may just get the slaughterer model and field it as one or the other and test which works best.

I would then have a Hellwright with Dark Abeyance, and a Daemon Prince maybe that I would convert with robotic wings.


Hellwright + Dark Abeyance
Daemon Prince w/ wings
2x Helbrute
Blood Slaughterer
Helforged Deredeo

= about 1100 points depending on loadouts.

Leaves a lot of room for other things. Not sure what I would run a squad of Scyllax as, it would have to be something with a lot of melee attacks haha.

 luke1705 wrote:
Has anyone been using noise marines by the way? I'm wondering if the blasmaster is worth the points to upgrade.

To me the Blast Master is a better variant of the Missile Launcher, sure, compared to krak missiles it only does D3 damage, but also D3 shots, which makes it top out at 9 damage total with the same strength and AP. For Horde clearing the Varied frequency is just better than a frag missile.

Eight Sonic Blasters and two Blast Masters are a great way to clear out thrash and a way to pop vehicles for not too many points, especially with double shooting from the stratagem.

dethric wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Has anyone been using noise marines by the way? I'm wondering if the blasmaster is worth the points to upgrade.

To me the Blast Master is a better variant of the Missile Launcher, sure, compared to krak missiles it only does D3 damage, but also D3 shots, which makes it top out at 9 damage total with the same strength and AP. For Horde clearing the Varied frequency is just better than a frag missile.

Eight Sonic Blasters and two Blast Masters are a great way to clear out thrash and a way to pop vehicles for not too many points, especially with double shooting from the stratagem.

Noise marines definitely love a bit of thrash

I found the picture of the kastelans next to contemptors with a dark eldar pain engine thrown in as well.



From left to right: kastelan, pain engine with kastelan legs (since the model doesn't come with legs), kastelan, contemptor.
I have to mention that the contemptors was a plasti version, I removed the front chest plate to slim it down a bit and replaced the limbs with kastelan bits so it matched better.

Anyone given the fellblade an outing yet? gonna take mine to a torney next month list:



wondering if anyone had luck with it?

Hi - I made this list on the back of two strategies which have been seperately discussed recently: Turn 1 Bezerker charges and an Obliterator firebase.



So, as already discussed, alpha strike the obliterators with Changeling within range and optional DP nearby for rerolls, attempt to take out something tasty turn one with 24 shot.

Use forward opertives to place one squad of bezerkers 12+" away on turn 1. This should distract your opponent immeasurably if you dont get turn 1. The other squad of 20 can be warptimed by the other DP: move - advance - move advance - charge with rerolls. Another turn 1 combat most likely. I could always for-go the second detachment and just infiltrate both squads, but i think this way has more flexibility.

Finally some cultists to flesh out troops and 2 squads of anti horde marines to sit back lines and benefit from the -1 to hit.

Any critiques on this list/strategy?

 Badablack wrote:
I found the picture of the kastelans next to contemptors with a dark eldar pain engine thrown in as well.

Spoiler:

From left to right: kastelan, pain engine with kastelan legs (since the model doesn't come with legs), kastelan, contemptor.
I have to mention that the contemptors was a plasti version, I removed the front chest plate to slim it down a bit and replaced the limbs with kastelan bits so it matched better.

Thanks for the comparison, I would think that for my gaming group thats more than close enough in size for it to work as a counts-as. To be honest as long as the base size is the same I don't think most people would have much of an issue with things like what I'm doing.

The decimator is a bit trickier, as the model is pretty bulky and tall, even though it's still on the same size base (60mm). To me it looks like it should really be on a bigger base!

Ok, so am i reading this right?

A landraider is, equipped, 356pts?

What justification is there for increasing the cost by over 110pts?

twice as many shots, can move and fire without penalty
probably more durable than it was before

Niiru wrote:
Hi everyone,
So I'm still trying to see if it would be possible to make a Dark Mechanicus / Daemon Engine army with chaos, and I'm struggling a little with all the options I have available. So I thought I'd ask a couple questions here and see where it goes!

1) Maulerfiend vs Blood Slaughterer. They both seem fairly comparable (which is good, as I'd hate forgeworld to be OP all the time) but is there a current reasoning behind choosing one of them over the other? Slaughterer seems to be faster because of scuttling gait, and more accurate with WS3, but maulerfiend is tougher? The other difference leads me on to question 2 -

2) Gods. The blood slaughterer is khorne-only, while the maulerfiend can be any god. But I'm struggling to find the benefits for each god choice. There doesn't seem to be any universal bonuses for each one (like there is for legion traits), so is the only thing it affects that certain psychic powers can only effect certain gods? But those powers seemed to be infantry only anyway, so the maulerfiend wouldn't benefit... The only other thing I could find was the Changeling (which is in a different codex entirely, but I assume it still works the same) that only gives it's aura to other Tzeentch worshippers...


So yeh, mauler vs slaughterer, and if anyone could help me with the benefits of the gods I'd appreciate it. Chaos has sooooo many options!

In addition to my questions here, I'll add that I've narrowed down my potential Legion to either Night Lords or Alpha Legion.

-1 to hit rolls for the enemy seems just generally good, especially for a daemon engine list where there will be a turn or two of footslogging to get into the enemy. Also keeps my gunline a bit safer.

-1 to leadership seems like a minimal thing offhand, but a few of the bots can get butcher cannons which also drop leadership, and I'm sure there are other things too which could lead to some fun morale issues for the enemy.

Is there any advice for me on these? As well as which gods bonus's would compliment them the best?

Levski wrote:
Hi - I made this list on the back of two strategies which have been seperately discussed recently: Turn 1 Bezerker charges and an Obliterator firebase.

Spoiler:

[Alpha Legion] Battalion 1484
[Mark of Tzeentch unless otherwise stated]

Winged Daemon Prince 170
Death Hex
Pair of Malefic Talons 10

The Changeling 100

20 Khorne Bezerkers (MoK) 320
20 Chainaxes 20
Icon of Wrath 10

10 Chaos space marines 130
2 missile launchers 40
Champion w/ combi bolter 2

10 Chaos space marines 130
2 missile launchers 40
Champion w/ combi bolter 2

30 cultists 120

3 Obliterators 195

3 Obliterators 195

- - - -

[Renegades] patrol 513

Winged Daemon Prince 170
Warptime
Pair of Malefic Talons 10

19 Khorne Bezerkers (MoK) 304
19 Chainaxes 19
Icon of Wrath 10

So, as already discussed, alpha strike the obliterators with Changeling within range and optional DP nearby for rerolls, attempt to take out something tasty turn one with 24 shot.

Use forward opertives to place one squad of bezerkers 12+" away on turn 1. This should distract your opponent immeasurably if you dont get turn 1. The other squad of 20 can be warptimed by the other DP: move - advance - move advance - charge with rerolls. Another turn 1 combat most likely. I could always for-go the second detachment and just infiltrate both squads, but i think this way has more flexibility.

Finally some cultists to flesh out troops and 2 squads of anti horde marines to sit back lines and benefit from the -1 to hit.

Any critiques on this list/strategy?

Make the cultists 3 different squads of 10 to still give you Command Points, and turn the regular chaos Marine squads into Havocs, giving you more potential ML.

 Gunnvulcan wrote:
Ok, so am i reading this right?

A landraider is, equipped, 356pts?

What justification is there for increasing the cost by over 110pts?

It is a bit of a beast.

4 lascannon shots and 6 hb shots that shoot at a 3+ even if you move. 2+ armor save with T8 and 16 wounds is tough to burn through. My LR has absorbed entire armies of fire for multiple turns and survived usually delivering a cargo of deadly bezerkers.

When I don't run it I tend to miss it just for the fact it absorbs so much fire since people are rightfully scared of it.

Though some smart folks just get into close combat and negate it.

Levski wrote:
Hi - I made this list on the back of two strategies which have been seperately discussed recently: Turn 1 Bezerker charges and an Obliterator firebase.

Spoiler:

[Alpha Legion] Battalion 1484
[Mark of Tzeentch unless otherwise stated]

Winged Daemon Prince 170
Death Hex
Pair of Malefic Talons 10

The Changeling 100

20 Khorne Bezerkers (MoK) 320
20 Chainaxes 20
Icon of Wrath 10

10 Chaos space marines 130
2 missile launchers 40
Champion w/ combi bolter 2

10 Chaos space marines 130
2 missile launchers 40
Champion w/ combi bolter 2

30 cultists 120

3 Obliterators 195

3 Obliterators 195

- - - -

[Renegades] patrol 513

Winged Daemon Prince 170
Warptime
Pair of Malefic Talons 10

19 Khorne Bezerkers (MoK) 304
19 Chainaxes 19
Icon of Wrath 10

So, as already discussed, alpha strike the obliterators with Changeling within range and optional DP nearby for rerolls, attempt to take out something tasty turn one with 24 shot.

Use forward opertives to place one squad of bezerkers 12+" away on turn 1. This should distract your opponent immeasurably if you dont get turn 1. The other squad of 20 can be warptimed by the other DP: move - advance - move advance - charge with rerolls. Another turn 1 combat most likely. I could always for-go the second detachment and just infiltrate both squads, but i think this way has more flexibility.

Finally some cultists to flesh out troops and 2 squads of anti horde marines to sit back lines and benefit from the -1 to hit.

Any critiques on this list/strategy?

Banking too much on getting first turn is a bad strategy (40 berserkers is an "I win if I get first turn" strategy).

Would recommend making the zerker squads 10 man so as to be less susceptible to morale. I know it's juicy to infiltrate a bunch of 20 man squads but trust me - they kill what they hit and then they die. Usually that's not a trade in your favor.

If you want to make your list more competitive, it's important to make sure that your berserkers have somewhere to hide if you don't get turn 1. Banking on BLOS terrain is nice and all but not always possible/beneficial depending on deployment and where the terrain is placed.

My best two options for the berserker fall back plan are:

1) Rhinos
2) Storm Eagle

Would make one squad of obits (maybe two) slaanesh. Less durable but one squad can fire twice. It's tempting to make only 1 squad slaanesh since only 1 can fire twice, but then when they kill them, no one can fire twice.

Finally, you can infiltrate more than 1 squad of zerkers. The forward operatives stratagem isn't used in any phase, so you can deploy multiple units with it (albeit at the cost of 1 CP per unit). If you have less units (and therefore get the +1 to your first turn roll), it's probably worth infiltrating at least a unit or two. Especially because you place them after the seize, so you can mitigate getting seized on (or take advantage of seizing on your opponent!)

Tangential point on the AL infiltration lists - don't forget that Transports are not squad specific any more, so you can take a bunch of ten man zerks & Havocs and rhinos and then decide on deployment who - if anyone - is going to start the game in a tank.

There's probably some fringe cases where it's best to put a Cultist squad in a rhino; drive them up to an objective to ObSec when the zerks have eaten enough of the Scouts who got there first.

I suspect Tzeentch possessed are a safer bet than zerks for 12.1" deployment - with a conga line back to changeling, their 2W & 5++ will take a lot of shooting to shift, and with defacto power axes they'll not be much less of a scarecrow.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Tangential point on the AL infiltration lists - don't forget that Transports are not squad specific any more, so you can take a bunch of ten man zerks & Havocs and rhinos and then decide on deployment who - if anyone - is going to start the game in a tank.

Yes and no. You can wait until you set the units up in deployment but you can't infiltrate a zerker squad, find out you're going second and then put the zerkers in the tank.

Not saying that's what you meant, but I could see some people thinking that so I wanted to point it out. Oh how OP that would be if you could though!

luke1705

I'd personally never run the noise marines without the blastmaster. It gives them a 46inch reach allowing them to threaten anything on the board not protected by line of sight blocking terrain. I would also argue that it is the best infantry sized heavy/special weapon in the game not only is it relatively cheap at 20pts which makes it cheaper than both the lascannon and missile launcher. It is also the most versatile heavy weapon in the game due to it being effective against every target in the game. At worst it is a d3 damage missile launcher if you only roll 1 shot.

As to how to run them either in min sized units with 4 sonic blasters and 1 blastmaster, you can try 10 man squads due to the Slaanesh stratagem but personally I believe there should be better things in the army to use that on.

Good catch, Luke, my intended meaning was that you can make your decision on who (and, indeed, if) you infiltrate when you see what the battlefield's like, how your opponent deploys their first few units, if they've got infiltrators of their own to worry about, etc

Niiru wrote:

dethric wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Has anyone been using noise marines by the way? I'm wondering if the blasmaster is worth the points to upgrade.

To me the Blast Master is a better variant of the Missile Launcher, sure, compared to krak missiles it only does D3 damage, but also D3 shots, which makes it top out at 9 damage total with the same strength and AP. For Horde clearing the Varied frequency is just better than a frag missile.

Eight Sonic Blasters and two Blast Masters are a great way to clear out thrash and a way to pop vehicles for not too many points, especially with double shooting from the stratagem.

Noise marines definitely love a bit of thrash

Far too easy going. It's all Merzbow and Whitehouse.

 luke1705 wrote:
Played in a competitive 32 man RTT earlier today. Was super well run and the people playing in it were great. Wound up placing 5th because I left a space between 2 models (gah!) and the guy I lost to won the whole thing.

Magnus was literally everywhere. To put it in perspective, 4 out of the top 6 players had Magnus. Not the top 6 Chaos players. The top 6 players at the entire event.

Super amazing units that I saw on multiple tables/played myself:

Magnus (duh)
Malefic lords (duh)
Changeling
Noise marines
Oblits
Warp Talons
Maulerfiends
Bloat Drones
Berserkers
Fire Raptor

I want to try out the noise marines. Still not sold on the Warp Talons but better players than I like them a lot. Also not sold on the fire raptor.

This was the BfS Nova-Prep event I take it? I missed going (thanks elevator...), but I heard it was the Magnus show top-to-bottom. I'm disappointed I didn't get to go as I had expected that and a horde meta, and had built accordingly. :-p

And yeah... Chaos is in pretty excellent competitive shape, not the least reason being that Chaos Strategems are outright incredible.

Been rocking out with Noise Marines, and in every game my opponent has gone "They do HOW much damage" Blast Masters were good before and even better now with the points drop.

That getting to fire back is amazing, however I find that without the Alpha Legion trait they just drop too fast to the amount of fire power out there. I have been finding brims + changeling for buffer and bodies combined with alpha noise marines is the way to go.

Also Oblits are INSANE now. Totally taking two units of three in my NOVA list.

-2 to hit with alpha legion and changeling? Yeah that works for me. Really helps shut down those quilliman/re-roll all lists. Heavy weapon moved? Now you are -3 and only rerolling 1s and 2s. while hitting on 6s, have fun!

 Leth wrote:
Been rocking out with Noise Marines, and in every game my opponent has gone "They do HOW much damage" Blast Masters were good before and even better now with the points drop.

That getting to fire back is amazing, however I find that without the Alpha Legion trait they just drop too fast to the amount of fire power out there. I have been finding brims + changeling for buffer and bodies combined with alpha noise marines is the way to go.

Also Oblits are INSANE now. Totally taking two units of three in my NOVA list.

-2 to hit with alpha legion and changeling? Yeah that works for me. Really helps shut down those quilliman/re-roll all lists. Heavy weapon moved? Now you are -3 and only rerolling 1s and 2s. while hitting on 6s, have fun!

Not only that, but most of the Mortar Spam people are trying to jam in can barely even HIT Obliterators, and most orks can simply never move and shoot them. I'm rocking 3 Squads of them this weekend and cannot wait to see how well they fare.

What are people's thoughts on the Hellwright? With or without the Dark Abeyance?

In the 1D4chan tactica (maybe not the most reliable source of unit overviews, but it's the only one out there that I know of), the Hellsmith is generally described as being a Warpsmith+1, with a couple stat boosts and a better weapon, and the option of having the Dark Abeyance.

...But it says that it's a worthwhile upgrade because "He is an extra twelve points compared to the Warpsmith".

Except that when I work it out, the basic Hellwright is actually 50 points more than a Warpsmith (83 to 133), and the Dark Abeyance version boosts that up to 178 points.

For that you get +1S, +1T, +1W, a soulburner and a better Axe, and the Aura that gives only Hellforged vehicles +1 Attack. (With the abeyance you get another wound, and 2" of movement, and an extra Heavy weapon that I couldn't judge if it's good or bad).

Thoughts? I mean for 10 more points you could get a psychic Daemon Prince. Pretty sure you can get a Chaos Lord + Sorceror for that kind of points. I do want the Hellwright to be worth it's points though, as it would be a fluffy fit for my army.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Been rocking out with Noise Marines, and in every game my opponent has gone "They do HOW much damage" Blast Masters were good before and even better now with the points drop.

That getting to fire back is amazing, however I find that without the Alpha Legion trait they just drop too fast to the amount of fire power out there. I have been finding brims + changeling for buffer and bodies combined with alpha noise marines is the way to go.

Also Oblits are INSANE now. Totally taking two units of three in my NOVA list.

-2 to hit with alpha legion and changeling? Yeah that works for me. Really helps shut down those quilliman/re-roll all lists. Heavy weapon moved? Now you are -3 and only rerolling 1s and 2s. while hitting on 6s, have fun!

Not only that, but most of the Mortar Spam people are trying to jam in can barely even HIT Obliterators, and most orks can simply never move and shoot them. I'm rocking 3 Squads of them this weekend and cannot wait to see how well they fare.

Let me know how your Oblits fared... I have several old Oblits in bits/disrepair and I'm thinking about adding them to my daemon list w/o Aetaos.

Niiru wrote:
What are people's thoughts on the Hellwright? With or without the Dark Abeyance?

In the 1D4chan tactica (maybe not the most reliable source of unit overviews, but it's the only one out there that I know of), the Hellsmith is generally described as being a Warpsmith+1, with a couple stat boosts and a better weapon, and the option of having the Dark Abeyance.

...But it says that it's a worthwhile upgrade because "He is an extra twelve points compared to the Warpsmith".

Except that when I work it out, the basic Hellwright is actually 50 points more than a Warpsmith (83 to 133), and the Dark Abeyance version boosts that up to 178 points.

For that you get +1S, +1T, +1W, a soulburner and a better Axe, and the Aura that gives only Hellforged vehicles +1 Attack. (With the abeyance you get another wound, and 2" of movement, and an extra Heavy weapon that I couldn't judge if it's good or bad).

Thoughts? I mean for 10 more points you could get a psychic Daemon Prince. Pretty sure you can get a Chaos Lord + Sorceror for that kind of points. I do want the Hellwright to be worth it's points though, as it would be a fluffy fit for my army.

Look at the date, their tactica might not reflect the massive points drop warpsmiths got with the codex. As to their quality/usefulness: warpsmiths are pretty tanky cheap hqs, but their problem is they are slow and their weapons are pretty short ranged. Their heal only works on codex daemon engines and the +1 attack again is hindered by their slow movement (your maulerfiends will outdistance them quickly). The hellwright is better with his ride, but still a bit slow and is overcosted (didn't see a similar pts decrease to go with the warpsmith's). They are great if you need an extra hq and are using dakka helbrutes or forgefiends (or a tank line). Really too bad because I want to use them as every model they have is cool and they are ripe for conversions.

Didn't the FAQ make it that Hellwrights can't actually heal Hellforged models anymore because of their caged Daemon (or whatever it's called rule)? Makes Hellwrights pretty useless.

Here:

Pages 12-29
– Machina Malefica
Change this ability in all instances to read:
‘At the end of each Fight phase, roll a number of D6
for this model equal to the number of models that were
slain by it during this phase; for each dice that scores
a 5+, this model regains one lost wound. This model
cannot regain lost wounds by any other means.’

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

Niiru wrote:
What are people's thoughts on the Hellwright? With or without the Dark Abeyance?

In the 1D4chan tactica (maybe not the most reliable source of unit overviews, but it's the only one out there that I know of), the Hellsmith is generally described as being a Warpsmith+1, with a couple stat boosts and a better weapon, and the option of having the Dark Abeyance.

...But it says that it's a worthwhile upgrade because "He is an extra twelve points compared to the Warpsmith".

Except that when I work it out, the basic Hellwright is actually 50 points more than a Warpsmith (83 to 133), and the Dark Abeyance version boosts that up to 178 points.

For that you get +1S, +1T, +1W, a soulburner and a better Axe, and the Aura that gives only Hellforged vehicles +1 Attack. (With the abeyance you get another wound, and 2" of movement, and an extra Heavy weapon that I couldn't judge if it's good or bad).

Thoughts? I mean for 10 more points you could get a psychic Daemon Prince. Pretty sure you can get a Chaos Lord + Sorceror for that kind of points. I do want the Hellwright to be worth it's points though, as it would be a fluffy fit for my army.

Look at the date, their tactica might not reflect the massive points drop warpsmiths got with the codex. As to their quality/usefulness: warpsmiths are pretty tanky cheap hqs, but their problem is they are slow and their weapons are pretty short ranged. Their heal only works on codex daemon engines and the +1 attack again is hindered by their slow movement (your maulerfiends will outdistance them quickly). The hellwright is better with his ride, but still a bit slow and is overcosted (didn't see a similar pts decrease to go with the warpsmith's). They are great if you need an extra hq and are using dakka helbrutes or forgefiends (or a tank line). Really too bad because I want to use them as every model they have is cool and they are ripe for conversions.

This is what concerned me. Even one Warpsmith/Hellwright isn't that great, as it can only heal one vehicle per turn for an average of 2 wounds - not terrible, but for the price of a Hellwright (or two warpsmiths) you can get a whole extra daemon engine with 8/10/12 wounds. Even if you had a tank line, only one tank can get a heal, and the +1 attacks is wasted.

I may just run a daemon prince or lord/sorcerer, and use the Hellwright/Warpsmith model as a counts as