Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 luke1705 wrote:
Nurglings aren't there to stop your opponent's deep striking units. They're there to stop your opponent's infiltrators. They do this marvelously because nurglings deploy during your actual deployment but infiltrators do so afterwards.

So you'll always be able to either:

A) secure a landing spot for YOUR infiltrators

or

B) deny your opponent the ideal spot for HIS infiltrators

If you are using them for step A, go for it 100% of the time. If it's for step B, it's a lot more situational but still good IMO. Especially because you can just throw them off in a corner, preferably out of LOS, if you don't need them.

They're also an A-grade unit in Maelstrom. Not only are they giving you a good shot at an objective on the first turn, they're also preventing the enemy from doing the same - both with infiltrators and deep strikers. Easily worth losing a CP or a few units' Legion Trait.

Niiru wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I haven't used the Chaos version, but my Loyalist Relic Contemptor has been a Twin Heavy Bolter + Chainfist and that's been doing pretty great for me. I would recommend trying the same thing.

So is that just one chain fist? I guess thats the imperial equivalent to the 1x claw + 1x kheres assault cannon (heavy 6, S7)

The way I saw it, I was pushing for melee, the Heavy Bolter was default and cheap, and makes it easier to kill Conscripts.
I go with just the one Chainfist though as, with the Storm/Combi-Bolter inside + the Heavy Bolter, light shooting and the charge is enough for larger targets, and chances are we are getting a reroll to hit somehow. So I figured I'd take the light shooting over the extra attack.

So there was a lot going on when I made the final decision but it paid off. The Kheres is pretty expensive is my issue and wounds MEQ all the same as the regular Assault Cannon, only pulling ahead at T6 and T7. At that point you probably want to smack it a small amount with your fist or Chainfist.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Niiru wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I haven't used the Chaos version, but my Loyalist Relic Contemptor has been a Twin Heavy Bolter + Chainfist and that's been doing pretty great for me. I would recommend trying the same thing.

So is that just one chain fist? I guess thats the imperial equivalent to the 1x claw + 1x kheres assault cannon (heavy 6, S7)

The way I saw it, I was pushing for melee, the Heavy Bolter was default and cheap, and makes it easier to kill Conscripts.
I go with just the one Chainfist though as, with the Storm/Combi-Bolter inside + the Heavy Bolter, light shooting and the charge is enough for larger targets, and chances are we are getting a reroll to hit somehow. So I figured I'd take the light shooting over the extra attack.

So there was a lot going on when I made the final decision but it paid off. The Kheres is pretty expensive is my issue and wounds MEQ all the same as the regular Assault Cannon, only pulling ahead at T6 and T7. At that point you probably want to smack it a small amount with your fist or Chainfist.

Twin heavy bolter is 17 pts, Kheres is 25 points... so it's a little more expensive, but I wouldn't say it was "pretty expensive" in comparison. They're both 6 shots, with the kheres having +2 strength but shorter range. I only just realised that the hellforged contemptor can also take a twin HB though, so I could save myself 7 points....

Hmm. This Stratagem, Beseech The Dark Gods. Is there any point to this whatsoever? Some sort of gimmick where you take an unmarked unit, and then surprise your opponent by marking it and then playing one of the four deity Stratagems? I mean, you burn a whole CP to do it, and you could have done it anyway and had an Icon to boot.

I notice Loyalists get a 'split into Combat Squads after the game begins' Stratagem. These both strike me as being to 'twenty-six Stratagems for you to use!' as a boss that requires a weekend of grinding to take down is to 'seventy hours of gameplay!'…

 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. This Stratagem, Beseech The Dark Gods. Is there any point to this whatsoever? Some sort of gimmick where you take an unmarked unit, and then surprise your opponent by marking it and then playing one of the four deity Stratagems? I mean, you burn a whole CP to do it, and you could have done it anyway and had an Icon to boot.

Yeah, it would be much better if you could change an existing mark and if you could change it at any time during your turn: that way you could have Slaanesh Oblits fire off twice then switch to Tzeentch to be affected by the changeling. As it is, there really is no use for it.

I recently got myself a Start Collecting: Chaos Space Marines box (because I wanted a multi-part Helbrute and some Marines to turn into Noise Marines) and I was wondering what the best use is for the Terminator Lord/Sorcerer. Are Termie characters even worth taking? I was thinking of building the model as a Lord to drop in along with perhaps an infiltrating unit of Plasma Havocs or Chosen, or even Noise Marines, to provide rerolls without having to infiltrate himself. Is that a viable tactic? Also, what weapons work well for general use? Should I give him a combi-weapon or just stick with the combibolter?

On the other hand, a Termie Sorcerer could get into a good spot to throw a couple of spells without having to risk being sniped if going second. To say nothing of the fact that a 2+ save and an extra wound is always welcome on any character (although I can get an extra wound just by taking a bike).

 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. This Stratagem, Beseech The Dark Gods. Is there any point to this whatsoever? Some sort of gimmick where you take an unmarked unit, and then surprise your opponent by marking it and then playing one of the four deity Stratagems? I mean, you burn a whole CP to do it, and you could have done it anyway and had an Icon to boot.

I notice Loyalists get a 'split into Combat Squads after the game begins' Stratagem. These both strike me as being to 'twenty-six Stratagems for you to use!' as a boss that requires a weekend of grinding to take down is to 'seventy hours of gameplay!'…

It isn't hard to gain CP as long as you buy Cultists. But it could be nice to have your Obliterators shoot twice, heal one of them, and then charge and then fight twice? You're right it only has synergy with other Strategems but the option exists I guess? I wouldn't bank on using it for the most part just like with the Combat Squad one. I can count on 1 finger the amount of times I've Combat Squaded, and that's zero.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Niiru wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Niiru wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I haven't used the Chaos version, but my Loyalist Relic Contemptor has been a Twin Heavy Bolter + Chainfist and that's been doing pretty great for me. I would recommend trying the same thing.

So is that just one chain fist? I guess thats the imperial equivalent to the 1x claw + 1x kheres assault cannon (heavy 6, S7)

The way I saw it, I was pushing for melee, the Heavy Bolter was default and cheap, and makes it easier to kill Conscripts.
I go with just the one Chainfist though as, with the Storm/Combi-Bolter inside + the Heavy Bolter, light shooting and the charge is enough for larger targets, and chances are we are getting a reroll to hit somehow. So I figured I'd take the light shooting over the extra attack.

So there was a lot going on when I made the final decision but it paid off. The Kheres is pretty expensive is my issue and wounds MEQ all the same as the regular Assault Cannon, only pulling ahead at T6 and T7. At that point you probably want to smack it a small amount with your fist or Chainfist.

Twin heavy bolter is 17 pts, Kheres is 25 points... so it's a little more expensive, but I wouldn't say it was "pretty expensive" in comparison. They're both 6 shots, with the kheres having +2 strength but shorter range. I only just realised that the hellforged contemptor can also take a twin HB though, so I could save myself 7 points....

7 points is more for the Loyalist Scum because we get Cultists to get our CP from and stuff. That's also close to another Combi-Weapon once you've done that, and if twice that's a Combi-Weapon. Just something to consider.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I recently got myself a Start Collecting: Chaos Space Marines box (because I wanted a multi-part Helbrute and some Marines to turn into Noise Marines) and I was wondering what the best use is for the Terminator Lord/Sorcerer. Are Termie characters even worth taking? I was thinking of building the model as a Lord to drop in along with perhaps an infiltrating unit of Plasma Havocs or Chosen, or even Noise Marines, to provide rerolls without having to infiltrate himself. Is that a viable tactic? Also, what weapons work well for general use? Should I give him a combi-weapon or just stick with the combibolter?

On the other hand, a Termie Sorcerer could get into a good spot to throw a couple of spells without having to risk being sniped if going second. To say nothing of the fact that a 2+ save and an extra wound is always welcome on any character (although I can get an extra wound just by taking a bike).

I think a Termie Sorcerer with combi-plasma would be pretty nice: atm my sorcerers are either on a bike or have a jetpack and they tend to die pretty quickly without an invul.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I recently got myself a Start Collecting: Chaos Space Marines box (because I wanted a multi-part Helbrute and some Marines to turn into Noise Marines) and I was wondering what the best use is for the Terminator Lord/Sorcerer. Are Termie characters even worth taking? I was thinking of building the model as a Lord to drop in along with perhaps an infiltrating unit of Plasma Havocs or Chosen, or even Noise Marines, to provide rerolls without having to infiltrate himself. Is that a viable tactic? Also, what weapons work well for general use? Should I give him a combi-weapon or just stick with the combibolter?

On the other hand, a Termie Sorcerer could get into a good spot to throw a couple of spells without having to risk being sniped if going second. To say nothing of the fact that a 2+ save and an extra wound is always welcome on any character (although I can get an extra wound just by taking a bike).

I think a Termie Sorcerer with combi-plasma would be pretty nice: atm my sorcerers are either on a bike or have a jetpack and they tend to die pretty quickly without an invul.

I'll have to convert myself a Termie combi-plasma then since the kit only comes with a combi-melta. Not that it's a problem; combi-weapons are usually pretty easy to convert. The kit comes with a neat-looking Force Stave that I'll have to use just for rule of cool, even though I think Axes and Swords are better.

So I attempted my first...attempt at a Brigade with Alpha Legion. Let's take a look at what I cooked up! Of course not tested yet and is a work in progress.

HQ:
x1 Biker Lord
. Combi-Bolter, Blade of the Hydra
x1 Dark Apostle
. The Black Mace or regular Maul depending if I think I need the Command Point later, Bolt Pistol
x1 Arkos The Faithless

Troops:
6 x10 Cultists
. All Autoguns

Elites:
x6 Chosen
. 5 Plasma Guns, Combi-Flamer
. Rhino w/ 2 Combi-Bolters
x6 Chosen
. 5 Plasma Guns, Combi-Flamer
. Rhino w/ 2 Combi-Bolters
x6 Berserker Marines
. 5 Chainaxes, 3 Chainswords, 2 Plasma Pistols, Champ w/ Plasma Pistol and Power Fist, Banner
x6 Berserker Marines
. 5 Chainaxes, 3 Chainswords, 2 Plasma Pistols, Champ w/ Plasma Pistol and Power Fist, Banner

Fast Attack
x3 1 Spawn

Heavy Support
x3 Obliterators
x3 Obliterators
x1 Maulerfiend
. Magna Cutters

Plan should make sense from the get-go. Infiltrate the Berserker Marines and Apostle (or hide him in one of the Rhinos), Rhinos will rush up with my Chosen, Cultists can be infiltrated as a screen or hold home objectives, Maulerfiend makes itself look threatening and to be a "SHOOT ME FOR FIRST BLOOD" target (in fact, I don't expect it to make any points back at all), and Obliterators strike when and where necessary. Spawn just sit there and eat up points or hold an objective; I don't particularly care. However, I feel I still lack offensive power. Is it worth so many Command Points if I still lack Chosen or other offensive power in my list? Would it be worth just going with a couple of Vanguard Detachments to do a similar thing? Hard to say as I haven't played it yet, but I am loving the idea behind my list at least.

 JNAProductions wrote:

One big question I have though-would a Lord be better than a Sorcerer? Sorcerer gives me Prescience on one squad of Oblits, as well as Smite or Death Hex or something, and some denial. Lord gives them all rerolls of 1, though...

And what Legion would be best?

I would give serious consideration to a lord/sorceror on one of the steeds. You lose out on legion tactics, but become a daemon so benefit and add to the tally.
Alpha legion stacks with the -1 to hit spell from the Nurgle discipline and would be my go to for oblits.
Iron Warriors also pretty good.

 lindsay40k wrote:
I only hope Magnus and Mortarion will be able to adopt a gestalt form with Angron and Fulgrim, like when the Dinobots combined

They're doing it for real in the next toy line.
/ot

Are there any limitations to having models from different detachment buff each other?

No; an <Alpha Legion> Chaos Lord in a Spearhead detachment will buff the <Alpha Legion> cultists in your Battalion.

Going back to the Fellblade psychic shenanigans... totally missed the slannesh one.

Looking at it actually its pretty weird that all three god powers are different buffs but all keep stuff alive!

Anyhoo now with Delightful agonies (ignoring wounds on 5+):

guess on the maths marine 4 lascannons
MoP = 2.333 wounds
WoF = 3.111 wounds
DA = 2.074
- DA now the best here

4 dark lances (s8 -4)
MoP = 1.994
WoF = 2.074 wounds
DA = 1.728
- DA now the best here again!

looks like Delightful agonies is the way to go!

I'm getting mesen a Spartan. It's gonna be a party van dedicated to Saint Angron; twenty zerks, Cursed Crozius Dark Apostle, and an Exalted Champion. I'd like to throw an endurance spell at it, but it's going to be very obviously Khornate. It'll just have to weather the storm with anger alone (and a Rhino going in front).

There's no point taking Laser Destroyers, is there? Especially if you usually play power levels? I think I'll take heavy Flamers, though. They'll be neat on an assault vehicle that can fire when in melee. (Presumably it can also Overwatch whilst engaged?) And I guess a combi-melta, for close encounters with dreads and monsters?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aight, here's the Word Bearers - Daemons list I'm going to start taking to all-comers:


Nurglings park on a no-mans-Land objective or troll infiltrators. Dreadclaw drops Chosen and Lord off to blast a choice target. Rhino zooms forwards to deliver Berzerkers and DA. Sorcerer and Herald run off with Fiends to rendezvous with Chosen, try to get the Dreadclaw into a juicy mass of bodies and either take down invulnerables or cast prescience or ecstatic Agonies; aim to get locked into combat with an infiltrator or deep striker who can't run away from the Fiends. Big Cultists run forwards into gunfire and get recycled, small Cultists and Havocs castle up. Helbrute, Flamer and Bloodcrushers get on general firefighting duties and draw fire from Rhino.

Well one of your Helbrutes is illegal. You get either the Heavy Bolter or Autocannon, not both.

I also don't understand what you're going for with the Chosen. Much too large of a squad and going to be a target. Mulch the squad down to 6 and forget the melee weapons. They're all about shooting. Buy more Berserker Marines if you want melee. I also wouldn't bother with the Combi-Plasma on the Havoc Champ. Maybe a Combi-Flamer instead as a charge deterrent.

Any point in putting close combat terminators in the Spartan? I love the aesthetic of it but they seem to be heavily outclassed by Zerkers or even Possessed.

saint_red wrote:
Any point in putting close combat terminators in the Spartan? I love the aesthetic of it but they seem to be heavily outclassed by Zerkers or even Possessed.

Chaos termis are a shooting unit and really excel at that. Our cc units are zerkers or possessed if you are running an army that can't use zerkers. I mean termis can do some damage in close combat but their real damage is via their combis.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well one of your Helbrutes is illegal. You get either the Heavy Bolter or Autocannon, not both.

I also don't understand what you're going for with the Chosen. Much too large of a squad and going to be a target. Mulch the squad down to 6 and forget the melee weapons. They're all about shooting. Buy more Berserker Marines if you want melee. I also wouldn't bother with the Combi-Plasma on the Havoc Champ. Maybe a Combi-Flamer instead as a charge deterrent.

Ah, good catch on the Helbrute - I've yet to play a Points game in 8ed and my dakkabrute has been retired for its more power-efficient brethren, forgot what loadout it had! Accounting for that meant that the Havoc Champion had to downgrade all the way to combi Bolter, so that's that.

Every time I've landed my Chosen they've deleted a unit or two and then been a high priority target. Their double tap plus re-rolls means two or three more Bolter guys mean a few more enemy deaths, and also mean that if return fire gets two kills then there's still another two dozen plasma shots coming their way. I'm slowly building more combi-plasma guys, who'll replace four of the plasma gunners. Power Axe is what's on my champion model ATM, I like to have it there in the deep insertion unit just in case but might drop it in time.

There's no point in having more Berserkers, their Rhino is already full.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mazzyx wrote:

saint_red wrote:
Any point in putting close combat terminators in the Spartan? I love the aesthetic of it but they seem to be heavily outclassed by Zerkers or even Possessed.

Chaos termis are a shooting unit and really excel at that. Our cc units are zerkers or possessed if you are running an army that can't use zerkers. I mean termis can do some damage in close combat but their real damage is via their combis.

Yeah, when you buy Termies you're partly paying for their ability to teleport - so putting them in a transport is inefficient. I tried them in a Land Raider, but without Assault Vehicle it's nowhere near as good a combo as it used to be. Spartan is absolutely for filling with a melee horde and driving through DS screens like you're the Red Army train in Goldeneye

I may start a new topic on this, but thought I'd try here first - What are people's opinions and thoughts on a ranking of the different dreadnought / daemon engine options?

Sonic Helbrute seems to be the most popular/strongest Helbrute build, to the point where I rearely see any other builds mentioned on here, but how is it in comparison to say... a contemptor with X loadout? Or a decimator with X loadout?

The units to "rate" would be (plus whatever loadout you recommend) -

Helbrute
Maulerfiend
Forgefiend
Decimator
Contemptor
Deredeo
Leviathan
Blood Slaughterer

Decimator gets a 5++, regeneration, can shoot out Mortal Wounds, can feed Epidemius & benefit from Heralds, and it doesn't loose accuracy like a Fiend - for +1 Power, that's a steal compared with a slower Helbrute.

I've been bringing along a Fistsbrute with heavy Flamers to fill out a Vanguard, no idea if it's actually any good as it's been a massive fire magnet every time! Nobody wants to risk a ruck with Zangief

Contemptor can go in a Dreadclaw, though it's weapons options are a tricky selection for deep insertion. I guess fists and soulburners?

I worry about the mediocre, degenerating accuracy/attacks of Fiends. I do want to get a lasherfiend built up soon - those +6 attacks will feed Epidemius nicely. And a dakkafiend for Daemonforge - I worry that its profile is such a fast degenerator, but with a Warpsmith, Grandfather's Blessings, regeneration, and a Herald of Nurgle, it should get a few good blasts in. Probably good psychological value, especially after your opponent fell shot of the kill shot thanks to its 5++. But... I always look at GB plays, and think, is that really a better use of 2CP than another Endless Cacophony? You can quickly burn off all your CP chasing random yields like that, when you *know* that Oblits or Plasma Chosen are going to wreck face for the same outlay.

I'm holding off on the Leviathan and Deredeo until we know if Fire Frenzy works on them. I've been looking at Deredeo and pondering using one for an attack unit... two Ectoplasma Batteries, with a Lord or DP re-rolling 1's, two heavy Flamers, and the hellfire veil. That's going to delete an MEQ unit every turn. Could be an interesting lynchpin for a human attack wave, or Helbrute onslaught. Interesting target for Warptime, if it's following a tide of Spawn and Rhinos. And if termies teleport in to counter it, and we ever get an FAQ update, fire Frenzy them to a thin paste.

My brute is normally a sonic brute. Its life span is usually about a turn. Maybe 2 if I am super lucky. But the few times it has lived I have gotten a few good shots out of the blastmaster and it does tend to take a few with it combat. I don't think I have remembered crazed once though.

My defiler, I know it isn't on your list but its a daemon, has done some work. Either absorbing enough damage to allow a good second turn firing from my army or ripping up some deep strikers. Also still looks awesome.

A mauler fiend is on my buy list for this month before we start a narrative campaign my club is going to run. The lashers are just a ton of attacks. And they will make a great distraction verse that rhino of possessed and a shield for the daemon prince as they go in to attack. Also an amazing target for diabolic strength. That can be 5 str 16 attacks+6 str 8 attacks from a single model. Very few things will live through that.

Has anyone compared three hellbrutes to three predators with the strategems that let you fire twice and add one strength and one wound? Which configurations are better? Or does it depend on the situation? Thanks.

A Helbrute with a solid loadout will probably be denied a juicy target during deployment and blown up on the first round. If you have three Predators, your opponent will blow one up on the first round. So you'll probably only get to use either Stratagem once, and only if you get the first turn. I think the existence of the Strategems makes both units into fine Distraction Carnifexes, but until we get confirmation on FW HELBRUTE units don't expect to get much use out of either unless you really take a lot of the units.

 lindsay40k wrote:
A Helbrute with a solid loadout will probably be denied a juicy target during deployment and blown up on the first round. If you have three Predators, your opponent will blow one up on the first round. So you'll probably only get to use either Stratagem once, and only if you get the first turn. I think the existence of the Strategems makes both units into fine Distraction Carnifexes, but until we get confirmation on FW HELBRUTE units don't expect to get much use out of either unless you really take a lot of the units.

On that front, it looks to be the same issue we have with the DG Legion Trait. The stratagem does not bold the name Helbrute, which implies that it only applies to the unit, and not the Keyword.

TasadarTheMadBear wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Warning on the DG trait. As it stands it works on helbrutes, not HELLBRUTEs

GW confirmed on Facebook that traits work on FW dreads ages ago.

Yes, but the DG trait spefically says helbrute (like the unit), not HELBRUTE (like the keyword). RAW is it only effects helbrutes from the codex.

EDIT: Whole page of debate I didnt even see lol.

That would leave us with sonic dreadnoughts, and codex dreadnoughts until we get some new FAQs.
(sonic dreads are explained on page 3 of the FW Errata) https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads/40K_8th_ed_Update_Imperial_Armour_Index_Forces_of_Chaos_ver_1.0.pdf

On the topic of Helbrute loadouts: A Helbrute with double fists, and heavy flamers tends to scare opponents. Not in a visible way, there are many more powerful units out there. Yet, it is great at destroying those pesky heavy infantry units that are meant to be hard to kill(TEQ, Oblits, etc.). The fists do straight 3 damage apiece, and that is more than enough to make anyone think twice. Use him as support for a Daemon Prince(re-roll 1s, or load him down with Prescience/Diabolic Strength to enhance the Helbrute), or interference for a Leviathan with double grav-flux bombards(I usually run him with a CQC option, but this is fun too). Plus, Heavy Flamers are great for thinning the horde, especially in overwatch. Loadout point cost is about the same as a fully kitted out 10 man CSM team(plasma guns, AC however you want him): 186 points.

As far as getting blown up in the first round goes, that is always going to be a question of your opponents target priority. I like the idea of using AL Berserkers with the AL stratagem. Start 12" away from your opponent, and make him/her cringe. See if he is still worried about a lowly Helbrute then.

Anyone had any joy with Chaos Bikers? I tried a unit of six with flamers (2 + a combi-flamer on the Sargent) in my demon engine list but they where underwhelming managing to kill a 4 genestealers before being gobbled up.

I really like the aesthetic of bikers cruising across the board blasting away, But can't seem to make they work.

My next attempt will be 2 * 6 man units (flamers again) to support 2 Bale-drakes in an alpha strike. I'm playing a renegade legion so they can assault after a full 20" move (not that they will do much damage in combat.

I took out a vindicator yesterday with my chaos lord on a bike with a power fist only to have it lost to an explosion causing six mortal wounds. Now has anyone had success with running two land raiders with khorne berserkers in them over rhinos?

 Warpy0013 wrote:

That would leave us with sonic dreadnoughts, and codex dreadnoughts until we get some new FAQs.
(sonic dreads are explained on page 3 of the FW Errata) https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads/40K_8th_ed_Update_Imperial_Armour_Index_Forces_of_Chaos_ver_1.0.pdf

Actually just regular Hellbrutes - Sonic Dread must be both Emperor's Children and Slaanesh, so can't be in (let alone affected by bonus the rule for) Death Guard Detachments.

kaptin_Blacksquigg wrote:
Anyone had any joy with Chaos Bikers? I tried a unit of six with flamers (2 + a combi-flamer on the Sargent) in my demon engine list but they where underwhelming managing to kill a 4 genestealers before being gobbled up.

I really like the aesthetic of bikers cruising across the board blasting away, But can't seem to make they work.

My next attempt will be 2 * 6 man units (flamers again) to support 2 Bale-drakes in an alpha strike. I'm playing a renegade legion so they can assault after a full 20" move (not that they will do much damage in combat.

I have been testing a minimum unit of 3 with 3 plasmas (2 plasmas and 1 combi-plasma) as a fast response unit. I am using them kind of like you would use scout bikes after watching some of the NOVA games. The combi-bolters can do a lot of chewing up of screens and the plasma can help deal with some hard units. My last game was small, 1k points, verse necrons but the bikes earned their 100ish points back easily and were a great screen for my DP.

I do think flamers are good on them, but if you are going to punch stuff make sure to give everyone else a chainsword. That extra attack goes a long way.

Interesting views on the Helbrutes, seems to be a popular unit! Though the sonic blaster version still seems the most popular, I see a few of you do enjoy the pure fists/whips option as well. I haven't added up the points for that one yet, but I guess it becomes more valuable if you have other distraction units to soak up fire.

What would be the advantages of running a contemptor over a helbrute or a decimator? Is the contemptor survivable / deadly enough to be worth the added points?

Edit: Also, what would be the optimum Decimator build? Someone mentioned mortal wounds, but the Soulburner Petard is extremely expensive now... is it still work it's points now that it makes the decimator more expensive than a contemptor? Think its 210pts for a double petard decimator, for 4-12 mortal wounds a turn