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Ok thanks !
IIRC, if I just played a WE batallion and an Imperial Guard batallion (representing the Blood Pact army), I would lost all my armies special rules ?

Yes, as those two detachments don't share a keyword you wouldn't count as battleforged army and therefore don't get access to detachment boni, warlord traits, artefacts or stratagems.
With the FW renegades rules you get access to IG units with the Chaos keyword and can build an army using detachments of the two factions. But I'm not sure how these rules are worded exactly.

It’s an almost entirely different army in the sense that some units are shared (many good ones are not), there are no orders, there’s very little stable leadership (i.e. you roll random leadership for most units, including HQ), and units that should be equivalent and are priced the same as the loyalist versions have worse BS/WS and armor save.

There are cool and fun units, but it isn’t a good army. Play them for the love of the models/background and it will be worthwhile. Playing them and expecting to win will not turn out well much of the time. That said, there are certain units that complement CSM and daemons well. I wouldn’t say the index is worth buying just for Renegades, but if you’re interested in the full range of rules for IG from FW then it is,

The one thing Renegades have over Guard are pre-nerf commissars (enforcers).

If you had your heart set on ig then you could always use the blood angels rules for ye khorne stuff. Death company make pretty good berzerker standins

CSM Cultists are our best non Daemon GEQ, but i love all the IG tanks I can run with my CSM tanks for my Iron Warriors.

Having access to those toys makes the Index worth it IMO

Has anyone found even mild success in running Berzerkers outside of transports? I'm playing WE in a large points game (3-4k) and I was thinking about bringing a blob of 20 berzerkers to advance up the board with. Is it better to just run them at 9-10 man units for the rhinos? Or in that scale of a game, will they not just be turned to powder turn 1?

If you’re bringing big blobs of foot troops it’s worth bringing along Abaddon just for the fearless bubble he gives to everything chaos. Otherwise 5-10 man squads will work better, won’t get in each other’s way, and will give you more battalions.

A single footslogging blob though? It’s going to die long before reaching anything important without alpha legion shenanigans. You need to go all in on blobs, they’re like spawning salmon swimming upriver. Most will get eaten by bears, so you have to go for quantity.

 Latro_ wrote:
Have any of you guys tried the hellforged scorpius? was thinking of a bit of no los needed chaffe clearance for my IW army.

Not sure 6d3 is worth 135 pts thou hmmm

oh lawd got the pts wrong thy are like 215pts.. prob not worth it

217pts, dont forget the combi bolter. I run two along with two quad HB rapiers in my own IW army and they do work. They are expensive but they are amazing for applying steady pressure all game.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Has anyone found even mild success in running Berzerkers outside of transports?

Regardless of the scale of the game I do not see this working outside of Alpha Legion to give them ranged protection and a delivery system. Mine have a challenging enough time surviving as AL.

Alpharius Walks wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
Has anyone found even mild success in running Berzerkers outside of transports?

Regardless of the scale of the game I do not see this working outside of Alpha Legion to give them ranged protection and a delivery system. Mine have a challenging enough time surviving as AL.

Yeah, and if you want to do that, you might as well also consider deep striking in bloodletters. Its cheaper and also packs as big a punch as berzerkers. Both are equally fragile, so its the same to me.

Anyone have any good advice on how to run 10 terminators?

I have 12 bodies, 6 power axes, 5 combi bolters, 2 combi flamers, 2 combi meltas, 3 chainfists, 2 power fists, a heavy flamer, and more than enough reaper auto cannons.

I have one termi lord with lighning claws, and one with a combi melta and probably a power sword.

1 of the bodies is probably gonna get turned into a sorcerer.

2 squads of 5? 1 squad of 10? Don't run them at all?

Decisions decisions...

Thanks in advance.

 CountEjacula138 wrote:
Anyone have any good advice on how to run 10 terminators?

I have 12 bodies, 6 power axes, 5 combi bolters, 2 combi flamers, 2 combi meltas, 3 chainfists, 2 power fists, a heavy flamer, and more than enough reaper auto cannons.

I have one termi lord with lighning claws, and one with a combi melta and probably a power sword.

1 of the bodies is probably gonna get turned into a sorcerer.

2 squads of 5? 1 squad of 10? Don't run them at all?

Decisions decisions...

Thanks in advance.

I’ve recently been running a squad of ten with four Melta, four plasma, two Heavy Flamer, an Icon of Wrath, and a range of melee. They rendezvous with a Sorcerer packing Prescience and Warptime.

My regular meta has come to be dominated by static gunlines, with hardly any screening going on beyond a few mundane Troops.

Turn one they drop, move, get +1 to hit, cripple three units, charge with a re-roll, then burn 3CP on Fury of Khorne for a second round of pile-ins. (The extra strikes aren’t what you pay for, as you’ll by now have possibly run out of units that you declared a charge against. It’s the extra 6”, that can entangle unit’s in CC without eating OW. It’s like Hive Fleet Kraken started wearing TDA. Combine this with enveloping models to deny fallbacks and you’ve killed the enemy’s firepower.)

They’ve been going through it like a wrecking ball through a greenhouse. Sometimes they go so deep into enemy lines, they pin units against the back of the field.

The metagame will adapt to things like this. But if people in your area aren’t used to dealing with DS rushdown, you’ll enjoy a month or two of being Jaws.

If you’re in a pretty balanced and diverse metagame, then this would be a biiiig gamble. A Dark Reapers list will eat it alive.

Chosen and Helbrutes buffed: https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_chaos_space_marines_en-2.pdf

Chosen now able to take a melee weapon, boltgun, and pistol. Not sure how useful that makes them now but they are a little more flexible and maybe worth a relook. Helbrutes get to dual hammers or scourges, which is neat?

 lindsay40k wrote:

 CountEjacula138 wrote:
Anyone have any good advice on how to run 10 terminators?

I have 12 bodies, 6 power axes, 5 combi bolters, 2 combi flamers, 2 combi meltas, 3 chainfists, 2 power fists, a heavy flamer, and more than enough reaper auto cannons.

I have one termi lord with lighning claws, and one with a combi melta and probably a power sword.

1 of the bodies is probably gonna get turned into a sorcerer.

2 squads of 5? 1 squad of 10? Don't run them at all?

Decisions decisions...

Thanks in advance.

I’ve recently been running a squad of ten with four Melta, four plasma, two Heavy Flamer, an Icon of Wrath, and a range of melee. They rendezvous with a Sorcerer packing Prescience and Warptime.

My regular meta has come to be dominated by static gunlines, with hardly any screening going on beyond a few mundane Troops.

Turn one they drop, move, get +1 to hit, cripple three units, charge with a re-roll, then burn 3CP on Fury of Khorne for a second round of pile-ins. (The extra strikes aren’t what you pay for, as you’ll by now have possibly run out of units that you declared a charge against. It’s the extra 6”, that can entangle unit’s in CC without eating OW. It’s like Hive Fleet Kraken started wearing TDA. Combine this with enveloping models to deny fallbacks and you’ve killed the enemy’s firepower.)

They’ve been going through it like a wrecking ball through a greenhouse. Sometimes they go so deep into enemy lines, they pin units against the back of the field.

The metagame will adapt to things like this. But if people in your area aren’t used to dealing with DS rushdown, you’ll enjoy a month or two of being Jaws.

If you’re in a pretty balanced and diverse metagame, then this would be a biiiig gamble. A Dark Reapers list will eat it alive.

Wonderful advice! Thanks so much. Most of the people I play are other CSMs and Orks.

I consider Poxwalkers nerf a bit overwhelming.
They FAQ so I can get them free, I order a lot of miniatures, and just couple month later they FAQ so I can't get them free.

It is a bit too fast paced for modelling hobby.

While this might be good for balance (although I don't see many poxwalker farms in top tiers of the grand tournaments), it is still a bit too swingy.

 Fan67 wrote:
I consider Poxwalkers nerf a bit overwhelming.
They FAQ so I can get them free, I order a lot of miniatures, and just couple month later they FAQ so I can't get them free.

It is a bit too fast paced for modelling hobby.

While this might be good for balance (although I don't see many poxwalker farms in top tiers of the grand tournaments), it is still a bit too swingy.

every 6 month faq is too frequent...? Really? I agree the nerf is a bit heavy handed but if one considers the beta rules aeldari got clunked too in terms of running soup ynarri deatchments as all the faction keywords need to matchup (no more Dark reaps and Shining spears in same detach) is somewhat in-line (in terms of magnitude).

 andysonic1 wrote:
Chosen and Helbrutes buffed: https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_chaos_space_marines_en-2.pdf

Chosen now able to take a melee weapon, boltgun, and pistol. Not sure how useful that makes them now but they are a little more flexible and maybe worth a relook. Helbrutes get to dual hammers or scourges, which is neat?

Spoiler:

Page 136 – Chosen, Wargear Options
Change this unit’s wargear options to read:
‘• Any Chosen may take one item from the Melee
Weapons list.
• Up to four Chosen may choose one of the
following options:
• Replace his bolt pistol with a plasma pistol.
• Replace his boltgun with one item from the Combiweapons
or Special Weapons lists.
• Replace his boltgun and bolt pistol with a
lightning claw.
• An additional Chosen may replace his boltgun
with one item from the Special Weapons or Heavy
Weapons lists.
• The Chosen Champion may either take one item from
the Melee Weapons list, or replace his boltgun and
bolt pistol with items from the Champion Equipment list.
• One model may take a Chaos Icon (pg 153).’

Page 138 – Helbrute, Wargear Options
Change the third bullet point to read:
‘• This model may replace each Helbrute fist with a
Helbrute hammer or power scourge.’

So what's the best loadout for chosen now, i'm guessing combibolter + chainsword? Though i'm kinda tempted to go all in and put 9 chosen with powersword in a rhino and charge the ennemie!

... So the rulebook faq has one bombshell. No warptime move if you arrived from reserves that turn.

Eldenfirefly wrote:

Alpharius Walks wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:
Has anyone found even mild success in running Berzerkers outside of transports?

Regardless of the scale of the game I do not see this working outside of Alpha Legion to give them ranged protection and a delivery system. Mine have a challenging enough time surviving as AL.

Yeah, and if you want to do that, you might as well also consider deep striking in bloodletters. Its cheaper and also packs as big a punch as berzerkers. Both are equally fragile, so its the same to me.

Bloodletters are waaaaay more fragile than Berserkers. -1T and -2AS is huge (even if it is invulnerable). With that said, Berserkers get shot up easily.

Put them in Rhinos and take scarier stuff (powerful vehicles and/or monsters).

Captyn_Bob wrote:
... So the rulebook faq has one bombshell. No warptime move if you arrived from reserves that turn.

Where are you seeing this? You can still move after reserve from what i've seen, it's just that if you deployed turn 1 it has to be within your deployment zone.

VoidSempai wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
... So the rulebook faq has one bombshell. No warptime move if you arrived from reserves that turn.

Where are you seeing this? You can still move after reserve from what i've seen, it's just that if you deployed turn 1 it has to be within your deployment zone.

The rulebook faq. It's just appeared on the list.

VoidSempai wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
... So the rulebook faq has one bombshell. No warptime move if you arrived from reserves that turn.

Where are you seeing this? You can still move after reserve from what i've seen, it's just that if you deployed turn 1 it has to be within your deployment zone.

Yeah, I'm not seeing a warptime nerf.

So absolutely none of the faq questions i had raised got fixed in the FW chaos index or the renegade and heretics list.

Grr.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mrhappyface wrote:

VoidSempai wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
... So the rulebook faq has one bombshell. No warptime move if you arrived from reserves that turn.

Where are you seeing this? You can still move after reserve from what i've seen, it's just that if you deployed turn 1 it has to be within your deployment zone.

Yeah, I'm not seeing a warptime nerf.

Page 5 of the rulebook faq, third question.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

VoidSempai wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
... So the rulebook faq has one bombshell. No warptime move if you arrived from reserves that turn.

Where are you seeing this? You can still move after reserve from what i've seen, it's just that if you deployed turn 1 it has to be within your deployment zone.

The rulebook faq. It's just appeared on the list.

Just read that now. FFS GW! CC armies took a massive nerf.

So, looks like adding pox walkers ABOVE starting strength require reinforcement points.

Tide of Traitors once per game.

A few things from the Forgeworld Index:

- Kharybdis Assault Claws can no longer transport MARK OF CHAOS models, only <LEGION>

- Spartans no longer have penalties for moving and firing heavy weapons. This is a big buff over Land Raiders.

- They clarified that Contemptors cannot use Fire Frenzy.

- Similarly, no Linebreaker for Vindicator Laser Destroyers.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:

VoidSempai wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
... So the rulebook faq has one bombshell. No warptime move if you arrived from reserves that turn.

Where are you seeing this? You can still move after reserve from what i've seen, it's just that if you deployed turn 1 it has to be within your deployment zone.

The rulebook faq. It's just appeared on the list.

Just read that now. FFS GW! CC armies took a massive nerf.

Can I get the link for this? I cannot find the rulebook FAQ

Found it

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en-1.pdf

 mrhappyface wrote:

VoidSempai wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
... So the rulebook faq has one bombshell. No warptime move if you arrived from reserves that turn.

Where are you seeing this? You can still move after reserve from what i've seen, it's just that if you deployed turn 1 it has to be within your deployment zone.

Yeah, I'm not seeing a warptime nerf.

It's in the Chaos Index FAQ.

Q: When I manifest the Warptime psychic power, can I select a unit that arrived on the battlefield as reinforcements this turn?

A: No.

Kharybdis instantly became absolute trash. Thanks for ruining my $200 investment GW...

It either is forced to Turn 1 drop into my deployment... which is absurd, or its giant foot-print ensures from Turn 2 onward it should have almost no decent placement... PLUS it cannot be warp-timed into a remotely useful one.

Absolutely decimated the viability of this one... wow.