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2019/05/06 13:48:11
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Unless you go 2nd, its one of the best changes to chapter approved in my opinion. Go first, get alpha strike. Go 2nd, get tactical, able to grab objectives at the last minute or at least shoot your opponent off their objectives before they can score.
There is an actual reason to go 2nd. Typically i aim to go 2nd now because of that, unless looking at my opponents army i think i can do enough dmg turn 1 and box them in before they can do anything back board control wise.
2019/05/15 23:48:23
Subject: Re:All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
BoomWolf wrote: Now that bolter discipline is official I can't seem to justify the flamers.
To expensive and require to much effort to acutely use.
That being said, other than summoning/allying in some Tzeentch flamers, we don't really have another answer to a cullexus...
What about Enlightened with Shaman + Prescience buff? Still auto-hitting / wounding on 4+.
I am btw still running a squad of 5-6 rubrics with flamers if I have some points left. Try to hide them and sometimes they get to kill something worthy after getting warptimed from cover.
If I ever finish my rhino I'll try a squad of 10 every now and then.
2019/05/17 09:08:52
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Anybody have any recent experience of helping Magnus & TS with either Kairos or LOC? Seems like it would create target saturation for large character class, and both of those cast nicely with +2 bonus. And if I am not mistaken, you could get LOC up to +4 for a smite if cast as a first spel. That would require only an average roll for a mega smite.
On the other hand, LOC can get the impossible robe, which would make it 3++ in practise, robe 4++ and +1 for rolls from emprehmal deamons.
I had success in helping Magnus with a Land Raider in a casual league, most times they killed (or tried to kill) Magnus but could not scratch LR at the same time, so it happily shot away with prescience and a nearby exalted sorc. Once the LR was focus, but Magnus totally demolished that army.
Greetings! I am a (FINALLY!) new convert to the Thousand Sons! They have been one of my favorite Legions since I learned about warhammer, and Thousand Sons is my favorite horus heresy novel! I have come into possession of quite the force of thousand sons recently.
I will have 70 rubrics, 5 SCARAB OCCULT (I scream that in my head every time I read/type/think it), 60 tzaangors, and a few sorcerors. I am not 100% sure on how many sorcerors I will have (I am getting the army next week), so I don't know how many squads I can break up the rubrics into. I know lots of people like small squads...MSU, but I personally hate that.
The imperial guard has been my main army for the past decade, and I like squads of 10+. Are big squads of rubrics decent? I don't need to go out and win GTs or anything like that...just hold my own in a semi-competitive meta. With the new bolter rules and the all is dust rule rubrics seem pretty good to me, if expensive. I plan on running something along the lines of 50 rubrics, 40ish tzaangors, and whatever else I can fit into 2k.
Is using massed rubrics semi-viable, or I doomed to dissapointment?
What say you, sage masters of the warp!
For MAGNUS!
2019/05/24 15:15:21
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
I pretty much always use 2 10 man rubric squads each in a rhino. They aren't crazy good offensively or defensively but if you park them in cover they can give most armies headaches. Thousand sons got more out of the bolter changes than any other army now that DW SIA isn't compatible. Once the squads are out of the rhinos, they are cheap and fast to capture other objectives or to charge units you want to prevent shooting or to be in the way of units attempting to assault.
I reluctantly assembled my tzaangors and have used them in 5 games now. I must say that they've been effective for their points and are a mainstay unit in my battalion. either warp time them up the field or DMC them and charge into things you want to pin down or prevent shooting or just kill in general. For 220pts for full unit and a bray horn they do nicely, and once they are in the face of the opponent, the Tzeentch buffs go nicely on them.
For me, I notice that thousand sons have a couple blind spots in their army with just the basics: numbers and anti heavy/shock troops. For this, I either take a daemon battalion with changeling, a tz herald and 30-50 pink horrors to be a hard to move cheap block (changeling also gives FNP to daemon princes and Ahriman on disc), or I take 2 armiger warglaives which gives me anti-heavy firepower and a fairly durable shock troop for tying up things. The warglaives are also very fast and so can respond to threats that are a bit far away for the slow rubric army to respond.
My last list was:
Ahriman on disc
DP with wings warlord
DP with wings and DMC
10 rubrics in rhino
10 rubrics in rhino
25 tzaangors
5 SOT 5 SOT armiger warglaive
armiger warglaive
it had a good mix of shooting volume, MW in psychic phase, melee punch between DPs, WGs and SOTs and durability.
for 40k
skaven for fantasy. for the under empire!........but it isn't a game anymore.
for infinity
2019/05/24 16:47:49
Subject: Re:All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Welcome to the Thousand Sons, they are my favorite army as well, and Ahriman is my favorite fictional character. I use Rubrics in most of my lists, at least one squad, and I have actually used them in CSM as Alpha or Black Legion. They are good against most armies, being really hard to shift with small arms. However, if you meta is Knight heavy it is going to be a bit harder as Knights really counter them well with all the D2 high volume shooting the Knights carry, and Thousand Sons don't have a lot of shooting that can deal with T8 multi-wound units. I also second the Tgor bomb, which is pretty good. Also, I have used a small deep-striking Tgor unit to harass back field units and it has worked well for only 80 points. Unless you have to deal with knights all the time, an army with lots of Rubrics should be at least somewhat competitive against most armies. As for other units, I again second using Tzeentch daemons, I like to bring big blob of horrors, or sometimes a Flamers of Tzeentch, which with the right support, can cripple units. I also tend to ally in some CSM for Havocs/Oblits if I want to be more competitive. Good luck!!!
2019/05/25 09:09:45
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
I think running multiple rubrics is actually a viable strategy now - that's the good news.
The bad is that you definitely want to go 5-man squads to unlock double battalion, and leave you with some points for AT.
Finally, you sound like you might like the rubrick approach - a 20-marine blob of rubrics. Here the idea is to leverage our many buffs all on one unit, making them both killy (votlw) and tanky (4++, -1 to hit). One big downside with it is that you should probably hold the dark matter crystal in reserve to fish them out of CC trouble, instead of getting to use it to alpha strike a band of tzaangor on turn 1.
If you're dead set on high numbers of rubrics, I'd go this route, giving you:
Battalion 1
5 rubrics
5 rubrics
5 rubrics
Battaltion 2
20 rubrics
20 tzaangor
20 tzaangor
Automatically Appended Next Post: That's a total of just over 1k on troops btw. It means you might run into some pretty hard counters, but I think it could have an alright day in local competitions (ie a winning-more-than-losing record).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/25 09:12:11
2019/05/30 03:45:17
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Thank you for the responses! For a time my list will be VERY troop heavy and HQ heavy. I did order a thousand sons contemptor with chainfists from Forgeworld, so once that's built I'll have that as well.
I have been looking at the codex and have a question.
Under options for Exalted Sorcerors it says you can take a power sword for 4 points, or swap the force stave for a pair of power swords (at least on battlescribe).
I don't see that option in the codex, nor do I see it in the Thousand Sons FAQ. Is this an index option that may be going away sometime in the future?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/30 03:46:07
2019/06/12 15:55:45
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
What Change powers are people giving thier Scarab Occult Sorcerers?
I'm trying to decide between Glamour of Tzeentch and Weaver of Fates as protection for his Terminator charges.
2019/06/12 19:53:46
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
dan2026 wrote: What Change powers are people giving thier Scarab Occult Sorcerers?
I'm trying to decide between Glamour of Tzeentch and Weaver of Fates as protection for his Terminator charges.
I always go glamour. If you manage to stick SOTs in cover (which is a lot easier with bolter discipline) weapons need to be -4 ap for weaver of fates to be effective. Whereas glamour is almost always effective.
For example against hellblasters. A unit of 10 in rapid fire overcharged kill:
5.5 sots with glamour
5.5 sots with weaver
2 squads of lascannon devestators kill:
1.4 Sots with glamour
2.2 sots with weaver
An avenger gatling cannon kills:
1.33 sots with glamour
2 sots with weaver
A squad of reaper chaincannon havocs kills:
1 sot with glamour
1.15 sot with weaver
So against a few different common weapons glamour is equal or better than weaver for a blob of SOTs.
2019/06/12 22:59:31
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
I am going to put 2 wardogs w/ autocannons and a tyrant (castellen) into my list. The wardogs 1 will get the warlord trait for psycic deny, the other will get the relic psycic deny so they fit the theme. Finally i am thinking of using the castellen with the double wounds remaining relic. They will be infernal as well.
Thats what i am going to try first anyways.
2019/07/09 00:01:34
Subject: Re:All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Will you incorperate one in your 1k sons army? With what setup?
I think the new chaos knight looks really cool, and I had been thinking 3 wardogs even before the new codes. That is what I am torn on is three wardogs or just one knight (I think they are close in points).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also does anyone know if hellforged leviathan dread can have TS legion keyword?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/09 02:38:58
2019/07/13 03:53:00
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
So I'm considering adding a unit of terminators to my collection, the rest of my army currently being pretty heavily... heavy. (Lord Disco, Princes, Maulerfiend, Dreads).
The current choice is between -
'Purge' CSM Terminators, Bolters + Axes - 145pts
Standard setup, but with rerolls built in, so no need for a babysitter. Cheap and cheerful. (relatively speaking).
Scarab Occults, InfernoBolters + Powerswords - 189pts
Slower, more expensive, no rerolls so less accurate. But more AP on bolters, and better defence against weaker attacks. Also has a pocket sorcerer for smite or Glamour.
Honestly not too sure which way to go on it. Scarabs will be marginally more defensive (and if Glamour succeeds, decently more defensive), and their attacks will be more powerful (but less accurate). Also like 33% more expensive though.
Thought you guys might have some thoughts on the Scarabs that I might be missing
2019/07/13 16:10:26
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
To me the scarab are better. The purge requires a wound to have already been done to the unit you want the terms to shoot at (should be easy enough for sure but may not always be available) and isnt really loaded up for any special or specific type of fight. They look like chaff clearers at that loadout. The scarab are much harder to remove if glamor goes off, can actually hurt armored opponents with ap-2, can always smite for 1mw if needed, and have power swords to defend themselves in cc better. So yeah, i would pay the extra 44 pts.
2019/07/13 17:03:01
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Azuza001 wrote: To me the scarab are better. The purge requires a wound to have already been done to the unit you want the terms to shoot at (should be easy enough for sure but may not always be available) and isnt really loaded up for any special or specific type of fight. They look like chaff clearers at that loadout. The scarab are much harder to remove if glamor goes off, can actually hurt armored opponents with ap-2, can always smite for 1mw if needed, and have power swords to defend themselves in cc better. So yeah, i would pay the extra 44 pts.
This is true plus no veterans of the long war means much less efficient shooting especially vs tough 5-8.
2019/07/13 18:47:45
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Azuza001 wrote:To me the scarab are better. The purge requires a wound to have already been done to the unit you want the terms to shoot at (should be easy enough for sure but may not always be available) and isnt really loaded up for any special or specific type of fight. They look like chaff clearers at that loadout. The scarab are much harder to remove if glamor goes off, can actually hurt armored opponents with ap-2, can always smite for 1mw if needed, and have power swords to defend themselves in cc better. So yeah, i would pay the extra 44 pts.
Pretty sure getting that initial wound onto a unit will be a lot more reliable than getting Glamour off every turn, especially as I would have at least 2 or 3 psykers and a 2+ BS contemptor on the table (among other things). You're right that they're not really that threatening though, except against chaff units...
Perhaps it would be better to compare them as all-combi-plasma. It's 190pts, so now they're a hair more expensive, but they get 10x overcharged plasma shots, and with the rerolls you'd be unlikely to blow up in your face. Much better shooting than scarabs now (I believe, I might be wrong as scarabs get more shots but they're weaker). Scarabs slightly better in melee against elite opponents, and have Glamour for defence when it goes off.
Edit - I did the maths. Plasma termies beat out the Scarabs against all targets by a small margin vs geq and meq, and by a large margin against everything else. BEFORE you take into account rerolls. The rerolls make it a landslide in favour of the plasma. (Of course you could give the rerolls to scarabs, but that involves 100+ more points in character babysitters)
Double Edit - I didn't take into account the -1 to hit when firing both combi-weapons. This closes the gap slightly, but not by as much as I would have expected. Though you can drop the bolters and just fire the plasma, and you don't really lose much. Plasma alone is still a bigger performer than infernos.
small_gods wrote:
This is true plus no veterans of the long war means much less efficient shooting especially vs tough 5-8.
This does mean using a stratagem on them though. I'm trying to make the unit as decent as possible in a self-sufficient way. I probably would used Veterans on them for one turn against an important target, but it wont be every turn. So if it's 1 turn of veterans, vs 6 turns of all hits being rerolled... pretty sure veterans loses by a large margin? (Reason for not spamming veterans, is that this is a very low CP list).
It does seem like Scarabs might be worth it over bolter-Purge, but the Plasma-Purge seem like a much more potent comparison.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/13 20:42:26
2019/07/15 02:26:48
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
So compairing combi plasma terms to scarab is a different beast. At that point it comes down to this - which is more important? Survivability or Damage Output?
Do not get me wrong, i am not trying to persuade you to pick anything specific. Combi plasma terms definatly do more damage than scarab occult can do. And not wanting to put stratagems or chr rerolls into account is a good idea.
Purge if you need to kill a tank you overcharge the plasma and don't shoot the bolter. Plasma is just damn effective vs all targets this edition. Even 5 plasma shots is typically better than 20 inferno shots depending on the target (assuming outside 12" so no double tap).
But the rubrics can move and fire at full effect, 4 shots a marine. They also have the unique advantage of being able to shrug off heavy bolters and assault cannons like they were bolters (all is dust is awsome). Also if you do get glamor off even plasma wont bother them as they are sitting at a 4++ save unless they are targeted by overcharged at which case glamor means the enemy is blowing up on 1's and 2's, a gamble most players wont make.
My long winded point is if your looking to play more aggressively then go for the purged. If your looking for something to play a bit more defensive the rubrics are your guys.
2019/07/15 20:01:20
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Azuza001 wrote: So compairing combi plasma terms to scarab is a different beast. At that point it comes down to this - which is more important? Survivability or Damage Output?
Do not get me wrong, i am not trying to persuade you to pick anything specific. Combi plasma terms definatly do more damage than scarab occult can do. And not wanting to put stratagems or chr rerolls into account is a good idea.
Purge if you need to kill a tank you overcharge the plasma and don't shoot the bolter. Plasma is just damn effective vs all targets this edition. Even 5 plasma shots is typically better than 20 inferno shots depending on the target (assuming outside 12" so no double tap).
But the rubrics can move and fire at full effect, 4 shots a marine. They also have the unique advantage of being able to shrug off heavy bolters and assault cannons like they were bolters (all is dust is awsome). Also if you do get glamor off even plasma wont bother them as they are sitting at a 4++ save unless they are targeted by overcharged at which case glamor means the enemy is blowing up on 1's and 2's, a gamble most players wont make.
My long winded point is if your looking to play more aggressively then go for the purged. If your looking for something to play a bit more defensive the rubrics are your guys.
This is pretty much my understanding, and is something I'm keeping in mind. I may well try and squeeze in two units, one plasma-purge and another of scarabs. It depends.
However just to say - "But the rubrics can move and fire at full effect, 4 shots a marine." - So can the normal terminators? Bolters/Plasma can be fired when moving without penalty, just not advancing. The Scarabs get an advantage with heavy weapons, but I'm not taking any heavy weapons really so it's a moot point.
Thanks for the reply, confirms what I was thinking appreciate it
2019/07/16 03:25:04
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
What i meant by that is rubrics get all 4 shots no matter what. The plasma part of the combi plasma can easily get outside double tap range due to not being effected by better bolter rules, only the bolter part does. And if your firing both they are both at -1 to hit so your not overcharging unless your desperate or have a death wish. This means your just not going to be able to fire at full effect with a combi plasma, which may not matter depending again on the target.
Sorry i should have explained that part better lol.
2019/07/17 01:05:03
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Azuza001 wrote: What i meant by that is rubrics get all 4 shots no matter what. The plasma part of the combi plasma can easily get outside double tap range due to not being effected by better bolter rules, only the bolter part does. And if your firing both they are both at -1 to hit so your not overcharging unless your desperate or have a death wish. This means your just not going to be able to fire at full effect with a combi plasma, which may not matter depending again on the target.
Sorry i should have explained that part better lol.
Ahh I see what you mean. As the terminators would be deepstriking, I'd be trying to be 9-12" from the enemy where possible anyway, but I see your point in that it's not always possible. I'd been doing my calculations as just using the plasma part of the combi anyway really, as you say you can't really fire both parts very easily.
2019/07/17 04:11:12
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
Ahriman and friends - Termi with Sorc armor or normal Sorc? Running a soup list and would take a couple plagues to fit the points... I know the standard A+F list is A+ 2DP but I'm in a points squeeze so had to put in a sorc instead. I see a lot of comp lists running it as a termi sorc, is this because of vindicares to get the extra wound and chance for a save?
2019/07/17 11:25:26
Subject: All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
Timmon 
-- AAR's as fiction: Haruukian 415th 
for 40k
for infinity 
