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Good to know on the smites! Thank you, and yeah after thinking on it I’m not gonna add a MVB but still may add the enlightened on disks to give the army some mobility towards grabbing objectives later in gave and as a cc deterrent for my line.

Me and a couple of friends are going to a tournament in the beginning of December and are playing around with different lists. I can begin by saying I´m not a great player, I´m not aspiring on being a great player. I mostly want to hang out with friends, throw some dice, and hopefully do some cool stuff. So my lists tend to be a little crazy so bear with me.



I want to try to go crazy in CC with my sons. Can this work? The big question is, is it worth buying and painting up two Mutalith Vortex Beasts?

better of with one knight 2 armigers instead of aux knight. My 50cent. Rest will do nice parts of it already working in various lists.

What are the legal wargear options for the sorcerer in terminator armor? in the codex its basically Force-staff+inferno combibolter but battlescribe adds all the normal CSM options. Is there a way to get a Thousand sons sorcerer with the regular csm options?

Yes, because we had it in the index, and technically speaking you can take discontinued index options still-its legal.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yes, because we had it in the index, and technically speaking you can take discontinued index options still-its legal.

oh, so i'm better off not making an index termi then? since legends are a thing.

Its...hard to tell.

I'd imagine that in a year or two it will become a non-option, but who knows if a new model WITH these options would be made at some point?

Worst case scenario, its probably not too hard to break off just the weapon and rebuild.

Does GW even want us to play this army anymore? Tzaangors going up two points is insulting enough, but 185 points for a DP with wings? What a load of doo.

Tazngors only went up one point.
And (our) winged princes went up because they were OP and practically every other chaos player brought a supreme command of ahriman and two princes. TS princes are MUCH stronger than any other prince, only the DG prince even compete.

The "TS core" of the army (basic sorcerers, rubrics scarabs) all went down.
The daemon engines all went down.
The FA slot (spawn and enlightened) all went down.


What they WANT is to make TS into actually TS, and not "horde of goats"

 BoomWolf wrote:
Tazngors only went up one point.
And (our) winged princes went up because they were OP and practically every other chaos player brought a supreme command of ahriman and two princes. TS princes are MUCH stronger than any other prince, only the DG prince even compete.

The "TS core" of the army (basic sorcerers, rubrics scarabs) all went down.
The daemon engines all went down.
The FA slot (spawn and enlightened) all went down.


What they WANT is to make TS into actually TS, and not "horde of goats"

I will admit that I wrote that post before I saw the other stuff, which I all approve of. Still, can't a DP of Tzeentch without wings do that same stuff, just with less movement? The drastic point increase strikes me as a bit overkill.

Counter question-how often did you take a wingless prince?

Because part of the thing that makes him such an issue is the combination of speed, spells and melee power.

The wings were a no-brainer for the prince before, and honestly even WITH the price hike-I'm probably sticking to winged princes.

BoomWolf wrote:Counter question-how often did you take a wingless prince?

Because part of the thing that makes him such an issue is the combination of speed, spells and melee power.

The wings were a no-brainer for the prince before, and honestly even WITH the price hike-I'm probably sticking to winged princes.

A wingless prince can easily be protected with a cultist shield, less easily with terrain, and has ephemeral form. The wings definitely help, but they aren't required.

Overall the changes are great. Tzaangors going up is annoying in a meta that has ludicrous amounts of anti-infantry.

That being said: Rubrics are now a well-pointed unit in every respect and Scarab Occult feels about right for what they bring.

Spawn going down is great and my 5 already saw the table. Enlightened coming down is a neat little surprise. My 12 see the table frequently and now will see it all the more.

Exalted NOT going down when Base Sorcerer went down is.....curious. I will hold out judgement until January when we see PA 4 and its rules contents.That may be the reason why if we get "exalted sorcerer only" relics or Strategems which may very well be a thing.

Ahriman21 wrote:
Overall the changes are great. Tzaangors going up is annoying in a meta that has ludicrous amounts of anti-infantry.

That being said: Rubrics are now a well-pointed unit in every respect and Scarab Occult feels about right for what they bring.

Spawn going down is great and my 5 already saw the table. Enlightened coming down is a neat little surprise. My 12 see the table frequently and now will see it all the more.

Exalted NOT going down when Base Sorcerer went down is.....curious. I will hold out judgement until January when we see PA 4 and its rules contents.That may be the reason why if we get "exalted sorcerer only" relics or Strategems which may very well be a thing.

Maybe exalteds will get the same treatment as imperial priests and librarians, with extra casts etc.

Also if you soup in daemons or CSM they both got good point drops. Flamers at 20 points is awesome. They will go up this time next year. I am thinking of taking my DP as Daemon now. And thank god elightened went down.

 xeen wrote:
Also if you soup in daemons or CSM they both got good point drops. Flamers at 20 points is awesome. They will go up this time next year. I am thinking of taking my DP as Daemon now. And thank god elightened went down.

Problem is the smaller HQs got up so much that it basically nulls out the discounts if you dont take a LOT of daemons.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 xeen wrote:
Also if you soup in daemons or CSM they both got good point drops. Flamers at 20 points is awesome. They will go up this time next year. I am thinking of taking my DP as Daemon now. And thank god elightened went down.

Problem is the smaller HQs got up so much that it basically nulls out the discounts if you dont take a LOT of daemons.

im happy that LoC's got reductions, i've been eyeing them for a while and them getting a pts drop is probably what will push me into buying them. Time to make a chicken list with a LoC, Kairos and Magnus.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

 xeen wrote:
Also if you soup in daemons or CSM they both got good point drops. Flamers at 20 points is awesome. They will go up this time next year. I am thinking of taking my DP as Daemon now. And thank god elightened went down.

Problem is the smaller HQs got up so much that it basically nulls out the discounts if you dont take a LOT of daemons.

im happy that LoC's got reductions, i've been eyeing them for a while and them getting a pts drop is probably what will push me into buying them. Time to make a chicken list with a LoC, Kairos and Magnus.

I started planning this as soon as i heard they might be getting reductions! There are quite a few interesting options, but it definitely turns into more of a Daemons list rather than a Thousand Sons one.

OK, after playing around with CA points
Spawn at 20 is possibly too low when fated mutation is a thing.

Like, is need to calculate what mutation is best against what target, but in general they are cheap enough that getting shot ain't painful, and they kill things fast bigger then they are with ease.

4 x 5 Rubrics, 2 x 10 Cultists and 10 Scarabs gave me an awesome 92 points drop.
Also you can compensate the 15+ points for the DP by running one of them as daemon DP since sadly the fluxmaster and Changecaster got their point increases.
Too bad the defiler didn`t get an price drop, really makes the decicion between defiler and forgefiend with gatling harder.

Good thing our troops got cheaper in case that next psychic awakening prevents souping with an daemon battalion to get all the buffs like with those marines chapters.
Really hope for some sneaky magic stuff there.


Also might stock up on normal sorcerers, they got quite interesting now as back up sorcerers and to add to our smite pool.

That LoC and flamer price drop really disturbs my painting shedule as well.

We have plenty of psychic support and supremacy. We need stratagems that boost our bread and butter units, mainly Rubrics and scarab occult.

Something like "soul fire" choose a unit with a warpflamer,inferno boltgun or inferno combibolter, for every model that unit kills an additional wound is scored.

Or "Leaping flame" increase the range of warpflamers by 4 inches this lasts until the end of the game turn. Try charging into that (Or burn things when coming out of a dreadclaw)

Yea. I am hoping the Tgor price increase relates to some awesome strategim that we don’t know yet. Just played the other day and rubrics and scarabs seem just right with the points.

They could use some stratagem support
Currently other than VotLW no stratagem is even worth considering on them.


Also, opposing to what said, our magic sucks.
Half the TS unique spells are actually copies of spells other armies have, except harder to cast AND shorter range.
The other half is a mix of the most silly spells in the game.


We need a massive overhaul to be competitive beyond spamming HQs for smite.

So, with yesterdays preview on WHC, what are peoples first thoughts?

I'm already starting to see a couple of potentially nasty combinations, but, i feel like we need the rest of the information first.

So far? Nothing.
It liturally changes nothing in my army at all, I can't afford to switch warlord trait or relics anyway, and one spell hardly makes a difference.

I am with Boomwolf, the showing while interesting didnt change anything with regard to how I run my Tsons. If that's the best we have then it doesnt really change how we play which is sad. We will have to actually see everything to determine if the extra stuff really matters or not.

More reveals from FB!

We got a 1 CP strategem for Rubrics and Scarabs to fire twice with rapid fire weapons if they didn`t move this turn. Yes! Simply awesome.
Also goes great with the new Rubrics risen strategem if you have the first turn. Looking at 50+ wounds with some buffs + VOTLW on those 20 Rubrics.
Might even get better with additional rules.

Also da jump psychic power equivalent with WC 7+ 6" range for Cult of Duplicity units. No cap on infantry as far as i can see.^^


Furthermore a start-of-battle-round relic that gives the opponent a CP on a roll of 1 and gets you one CP on a roll of 4+. (Can allready see myself rerolling ones just to deny that free CP. )


Oh and we got some fancy renamed bolter drill by the name of malicious volleys. Almost same rules, cooler name. Except its doubletap works on Terminators, Bikes and Brutes. Fair enough.

Scout Deployment for a unit of 20 Rubrics. Dark Matter Crystal on infantry and Da Jump on anything. TSons just got some verrrrry aggressive early game pressure ioptions

20 Rubric marines are a pretty bad idea (almost a trap), fun to try but generally bad given how expensive they are, any loss to moral hurts big time, that stratagem is already good with 5/10 man squads , ideally on SoT but they hardly will ever be counting as not moved
Also we better hope we get a strat for additional warlord trait and improved one for relics as otherwise not that much choice
As far as the CP relic goes, I personally think is bad and will be taking the Helm over it, I think is the first relic in the game that can give advantage to the opponent?
Normally it has roughly the same chance of giving you 1 CP in the round as Helm, it becomes better only when then opponent is out of CP (which means that likely we don't have any either) and at that point feeding them that 1 CP could swing the game for them, not worth it

deTox91 wrote:
20 Rubric marines are a pretty bad idea (almost a trap), fun to try but generally bad given how expensive they are, any loss to moral hurts big time, that stratagem is already good with 5/10 man squads , ideally on SoT but they hardly will ever be counting as not moved
Also we better hope we get a strat for additional warlord trait and improved one for relics as otherwise not that much choice
As far as the CP relic goes, I personally think is bad and will be taking the Helm over it, I think is the first relic in the game that can give advantage to the opponent?
Normally it has roughly the same chance of giving you 1 CP in the round as Helm, it becomes better only when then opponent is out of CP (which means that likely we don't have any either) and at that point feeding them that 1 CP could swing the game for them, not worth it

I’d argue that the new relic is substantially more likely to give you more CP over the course of a battle than the Helm is, simply because it’s a 50% chance each turn, rather than a 33% chance when your opponent uses a stratagem.

There is a chance that you’ll hand over 1 or 2 CP to your opponent during the course of an event, but, with enough planning you’ll generally be able to deny this. (Yes there will be occasions where you screw yourself over by rolling a double 1, but I’d generally take this risk 90% of the time).