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the_scotsman wrote:
So, I've been combing through the open lists for that upcoming london GT to see how tournament players have been using my favorite factions (see here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/756135.page) and the post-FAQ thousand sons lists are...unpredictable to say the very least.

Out of about 250 lists, Thousand Sons appear in 25, with 6 of those being pure or nearly pure thousand sons lists (less than 500 points of allied units). Predictably the massive majority feature Ahriman and the DPTz, the two obvious star units post-FAQ.

A few unpredictable things though:

1) the number of rubric squads total outnumbers the number of tzaangor squads total. Only 3 lists feature a large unit of tzaangors, despite the DMC still being usable post-FAQ.

2) Scarab occult terminators are vanishingly rare (appearing in only one list) while rubrics appear in 9 out of the 25 lists, and in every pure thousand son list that I can find.

3) Magnus seems to be making a heavy comeback, but who does not seem to be is Tzeentch daemons. Only 2 lists feature any Tzdaemon allies at all, which I would think would come along with Magnus to get him the 6++ from changeling vs turn 1 lascannons.

Scarab Terminators are in 2 lists – mine and there is one person running 3 units of them (I think it’s 3 – might be 2)

I’m also surprised by the low amount of Tzaangor troop choices, but, the fact that you can’t warptime them is probably part of the reason why. Cultists are also so so so much cheaper.

Fair amount of Rubric squads, but there are a couple of lists that go heavy on Tzaangor units (1 list has 3 units of 9 Enlightened and a shaman though). Few others have a couple of smaller squads.

Yeah, Magnus is in a fair number of lists, though, whether he will perform well if anyone’s guess right now. I think a big part of this, is the smite ruling.

I’ve not looked at the daemons lists yet, and I think I only saw 1 Thousand Sons list with some in, which had 3 units of brimstones.

I’m looking forward to it, but, there are some really nasty lists submitted.

I've had a serious reconsideration for the vortex beast. Anyone have some competitive insight? I know in the local store and/or the one off game against a fluffy list the beats performs - but what about semi-competitive / bleeding competitive lists? I personally don't think it would be bleeding edge, but maybe tourny worth at the FLGS? I could see the mortal wound aura actually stacking on quite a bit and/or the ability to bring pinks to 5 str on shooting being valuable. At minimum it is sits at 14W with 7T which isn't great but will soak some fire at 4+ 5++.... 150 points is daemon prince territoryish.

I won 2 out of 3 games at a local semi competitive tournament a few weeks ago with a mutalith. I used it as a mortal wound spammer and it did well. As long as you don't throw it into a fight it can't win (something designed to kill big beasts) it will tear small stuff apart on its own.

I am currently exploring deamons and it. It's powers work on tzeentch models..... that's some awesomeness right there. Screamers getting 3 str 7 ap -3 attacks, or pinks becoming Str 5 with a herald + flickering flames for wounding marines on 2's, it's really got some potential to help strengthen an army.

Azuza001 wrote:
I won 2 out of 3 games at a local semi competitive tournament a few weeks ago with a mutalith. I used it as a mortal wound spammer and it did well. As long as you don't throw it into a fight it can't win (something designed to kill big beasts) it will tear small stuff apart on its own.

I am currently exploring deamons and it. It's powers work on tzeentch models..... that's some awesomeness right there. Screamers getting 3 str 7 ap -3 attacks, or pinks becoming Str 5 with a herald + flickering flames for wounding marines on 2's, it's really got some potential to help strengthen an army.

How many did you run? I feel like with one they come out quite squishy and I am not sure what other heavy support options work well for TSons - so I've wound up taking 3 (450 total - significant but across 3 units not terrible)... I was thinking maybe with warptime and some redundancy they could be good? I'm toying with the idea of running them with seekers

Warptime the vortex beast in -> seekers (other detachment) advance and charge turn one -> beast charges -> beast can stay in melee as seekers surround a model during pile in making it shooting immune for a turn... Or similar...

Also running multiple provides flexibility in terms of the mortal wound choice and/or the strength choice. At the end of the day thought - the beast doesn't really do anything until it gets in and there may be better candidates for warptime... I intend to playtest it but as the models clock in at about 90 bucks per - additional comments are welcome.

Is doombolt worth casting? At 9 WC it is super high, but with stratagems and WL traits I can easily make it a 6. It looks like it totally neuters an assault unit.

orkswubwub wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
I won 2 out of 3 games at a local semi competitive tournament a few weeks ago with a mutalith. I used it as a mortal wound spammer and it did well. As long as you don't throw it into a fight it can't win (something designed to kill big beasts) it will tear small stuff apart on its own.

I am currently exploring deamons and it. It's powers work on tzeentch models..... that's some awesomeness right there. Screamers getting 3 str 7 ap -3 attacks, or pinks becoming Str 5 with a herald + flickering flames for wounding marines on 2's, it's really got some potential to help strengthen an army.

How many did you run? I feel like with one they come out quite squishy and I am not sure what other heavy support options work well for TSons - so I've wound up taking 3 (450 total - significant but across 3 units not terrible)... I was thinking maybe with warptime and some redundancy they could be good? I'm toying with the idea of running them with seekers

Warptime the vortex beast in -> seekers (other detachment) advance and charge turn one -> beast charges -> beast can stay in melee as seekers surround a model during pile in making it shooting immune for a turn... Or similar...

Also running multiple provides flexibility in terms of the mortal wound choice and/or the strength choice. At the end of the day thought - the beast doesn't really do anything until it gets in and there may be better candidates for warptime... I intend to playtest it but as the models clock in at about 90 bucks per - additional comments are welcome.

To be fair I played 1 and it was a 1500 pt tournament. But I also ran a defiler, a 19 model tzaangor squad, and a deamon prince with eatherstride. Turn one I advanced and warptimed my dp into close combat, dark matter crystaled my tzaangors up and charged them in, and advanced a rhino filled with 10 rubrics and the vortex beast. My opponent's did not have the luxury of dealing with the beast on their time, they had already been engaged on 2 fronts and after the big faq there wasn't as much screening being done. No one expected tsons at the tournament to be so quick so I caught people off guard.

If I had 2000 pts i would have taken a second one and probably a second defiler, those things are awesome.

Vaklor4, yes it is. Doombolt when it goes off is clutch, same as death hex. Hit Magnus with it and watch him stall out in the middle of a battlefield. It's hard to get off but when you do it's sweet.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Is doombolt worth casting? At 9 WC it is super high, but with stratagems and WL traits I can easily make it a 6. It looks like it totally neuters an assault unit.

Go first against poorly positioned Eldar and Lol at their shining spears - you basically won that game from T1.

It’s warpcharge 8 in the faq.

Hi folks! Which is the best spells loadout for for ahriman and demon princes?

Paikkio wrote:
Hi folks! Which is the best spells loadout for for ahriman and demon princes?

Hi Paikko, there isn't one. It depends on situation.

Ahriman is good for either being certain you're going to cast a vital spell, or casting those that would be unreliable if you didn't use him for it. +1 on 2d6 close to the average curve is a huge deal - +1 to Doombolt bumping it from WC8 to effectively WC7 improves the casting chance by 19%.

Typically Ahriman winds up either my primary source of psychic beatdowns, because that also lets you take advantage of his mobility and combat stats, or if my army is something like a pure horde, he carries my most vital psychic buffs. I'll take a loadout like Doombolt, Gift of Chaos (if against a primarily T3 enemy), Tzeentch's Firestorm (if not), and then because his third cast can be Smite, I'll take something like Temporal manipulation or Boon of mutation on him, a spell you might want every once in a while but only occasionally. For the latter, he'll usually be Prescience/Weaver/Glamour or other such buffs.

I usually don't give him Warptime because that's reserved for a Prince. My first Prince almost always goes Warptime/Diabolic. I field a daemon detachment to give me a screen so I don't need to run Gaze of Fate on the prince - but if you have a second Prince, that isn't a bad idea, especially if you don't have other daemons.

So, I think with Ahriman it depends on whether or not you are also taking Magnus.

If you’re taking Magnus I think Ahriman is more suited to getting those important “support” powers off, whilst allowing Magnus to go hard on the high WC cost powers. If you’re not taking Magnus, then Ahriman can also somewhat reliably fill that gap.

As for Princes, I’ve been toying with 1 having Warptime and Boon of Change – it can make for a scary unit, especially if you also get Diabolic Strength off on it. For a second, depends on what other coverage you have. A second Warptime is always useful, just in case, and then Gaze of Fate is pretty much an auto-take.

Bolt of Change and Infernal Gateway are also pretty nice mortal wound dealers.

Kdash wrote:
So, I think with Ahriman it depends on whether or not you are also taking Magnus.

If you’re taking Magnus I think Ahriman is more suited to getting those important “support” powers off, whilst allowing Magnus to go hard on the high WC cost powers. If you’re not taking Magnus, then Ahriman can also somewhat reliably fill that gap.

As for Princes, I’ve been toying with 1 having Warptime and Boon of Change – it can make for a scary unit, especially if you also get Diabolic Strength off on it. For a second, depends on what other coverage you have. A second Warptime is always useful, just in case, and then Gaze of Fate is pretty much an auto-take.

Bolt of Change and Infernal Gateway are also pretty nice mortal wound dealers.

Yeah. Magnus pretty much takes over the mega-beatstick role when you take him because he has access to Gateway alongside Doombolt and Firestorm. I've had Magnus dump out 20+ mortal wounds in a psychic phase before.

Just wanna share another list here

https://diceshot.com/2018/05/09/thousands-sons-j-mcneal/

Bossanovee wrote:
Just wanna share another list here

https://diceshot.com/2018/05/09/thousands-sons-j-mcneal/

Interesting, but a few things.

Deamon princes of tzeentch can't have warp bolters. The only dp that can is from the index and it's a chaos deamon prince, different name so not able to access the index old equipment rules.

Why no dark matter crystal? Seems odd.

I don't see the point of the tzaangor shamans.

Would love to know how effective the 20 rubrics blob actually was, been trying to find a way to do that myself.

Bossanovee wrote:
Just wanna share another list here

https://diceshot.com/2018/05/09/thousands-sons-j-mcneal/

Wow 2nd place!

Oh 8 players total.

Yeah I noticed that too, but 2nd is still great no matter the number of players. Got to start somewhere lol.

Apologies if this has been answered already but I'm not a regular TS player. Can I use the dark matter relic to teleport a nearby (already deployed) TS infantry unit out of my DZ on Turn 1 into a juicy firing position?

 Tonberry7 wrote:
Apologies if this has been answered already but I'm not a regular TS player. Can I use the dark matter relic to teleport a nearby (already deployed) TS infantry unit out of my DZ on Turn 1 into a juicy firing position?

Yes.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Tonberry7 wrote:
Apologies if this has been answered already but I'm not a regular TS player. Can I use the dark matter relic to teleport a nearby (already deployed) TS infantry unit out of my DZ on Turn 1 into a juicy firing position?

Yes.

Thanks Captyn that's what I thought. Same would apply to GoI for Grey Knights?

Yes

Azuza001 wrote:

Bossanovee wrote:
Just wanna share another list here

https://diceshot.com/2018/05/09/thousands-sons-j-mcneal/

Interesting, but a few things.

Deamon princes of tzeentch can't have warp bolters. The only dp that can is from the index and it's a chaos deamon prince, different name so not able to access the index old equipment rules.

Why no dark matter crystal? Seems odd.

I don't see the point of the tzaangor shamans.

Would love to know how effective the 20 rubrics blob actually was, been trying to find a way to do that myself.

Yeah, i think the warp bolter thing is something that a lot of people just using battlescribe don't realise.

The DMC might have been taken as an extra relic before each game. It's likely they didn't have to add the extra ones to the list.

I agree, the shamans seem to be nothing more than additional smite spam. For 90 points they do it relatively well, i guess.

Likewise, i'm tempted to run a big squad of Rubric at some point, but part of my things they just don't have that much of a threat potential against anything other than basic troops. They are essentially a big, 440 point wall. Big distraction unit though.

Kdash wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:

Bossanovee wrote:
Just wanna share another list here

https://diceshot.com/2018/05/09/thousands-sons-j-mcneal/

Interesting, but a few things.

Deamon princes of tzeentch can't have warp bolters. The only dp that can is from the index and it's a chaos deamon prince, different name so not able to access the index old equipment rules.

Why no dark matter crystal? Seems odd.

I don't see the point of the tzaangor shamans.

Would love to know how effective the 20 rubrics blob actually was, been trying to find a way to do that myself.

Yeah, i think the warp bolter thing is something that a lot of people just using battlescribe don't realise.

The DMC might have been taken as an extra relic before each game. It's likely they didn't have to add the extra ones to the list.

I agree, the shamans seem to be nothing more than additional smite spam. For 90 points they do it relatively well, i guess.

Likewise, i'm tempted to run a big squad of Rubric at some point, but part of my things they just don't have that much of a threat potential against anything other than basic troops. They are essentially a big, 440 point wall. Big distraction unit though.

I don't know about that..... 20 rubrics with 2 soulreaper cannons with veterans of the long war can be pretty nasty vs any target.

Don't get me wrong, 35 str 4 -2 shots + 2 soul reaper cannons at 12" range, with prescience, re-roll 1's and VotlW stratagem will do a lot of work, but, it is a lot of work mainly against chaff and low wound non-invuln models/units. Being such a large block, they also run the risk of being tided up in combat frequently.

Just feels like a big points sink :/

At 12" with 20 w/ 2 soul reapers it's 43 total shots. Assuming your not wanting to put a lot into it past minimum requirements that's 30 hits, veterans causing 15 wounds on t5-7, at ap-2 that's probably 5+ saves for around 10 wounds to a predator tank.

I am NOT saying "you should always do this because it's always awsome" or anything like that. I am saying that 20 rubrics are a threat to almost everything in the game. Yes they are expensive but you have a wall with teeth.

Hi, i'm a new TS player. I founded this list online. What do you think?

Battalion Detachment, Keyword: Chaos Space marines, Points: 884, 59PL, CP: 5 (+2 from Abaddon) 7 CP
HQ 1 : Abaddon the Despoiler (240), (Warlord) = 240 points [12PL] <Black legion> <Mark of Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Nurgle> HQ 2 : Exalted champion (70), Power sword (4), Bolt pistol (0), Murder sword relic (0) = 74 Points [5PL] <Black legion> <Khorne> HQ 3 : Chaos sorcerer (90), Force sword (8), Bolt pistol (0) = 98 points [6PL] <Black legion> <Mark of Slaanesh>
Troop 1 : 40 x Chaos cultists (160), 40 x Autoguns (0) = 160 points [12PL] <Alpha legion> <Slaanesh>
Troop 2 : 40 x Chaos cultists (160), 40 x Autoguns (0) = 160 points [12PL] <Black legion> <Slaanesh>
Troop 3 : 38 x Chaos cultists (152), 40 x Autopistol (0), Close combat weapon (0) = 152 points [12PL] <Black legion> <Khorne>
Supreme Command Detachment, Keyword: Thousand Sons, Points: 1116, 54PL, CP: 1
Lord of war: Magnus the Red (445) = 445 points [23] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch>
HQ 1: Ahriman (131) = 131 points [7PL] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch>
HQ 2: Daemon Prince (146), (Wings 24), Malefic talons (10) = 180 points [8PL] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch> HQ 3: Daemon Prince (146), (Wings 24), Malefic talons (10) = 180 points [8PL] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch> HQ 4: Daemon Prince (146), (Wings 24), Malefic talons (10) = 180 points [8PL] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch> Total: (2000) = 2000 points 113PL, 11CP

casdark wrote:
Hi, i'm a new TS player. I founded this list online. What do you think?

Battalion Detachment, Keyword: Chaos Space marines, Points: 884, 59PL, CP: 5 (+2 from Abaddon) 7 CP
HQ 1 : Abaddon the Despoiler (240), (Warlord) = 240 points [12PL] <Black legion> <Mark of Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Nurgle> HQ 2 : Exalted champion (70), Power sword (4), Bolt pistol (0), Murder sword relic (0) = 74 Points [5PL] <Black legion> <Khorne> HQ 3 : Chaos sorcerer (90), Force sword (8), Bolt pistol (0) = 98 points [6PL] <Black legion> <Mark of Slaanesh>
Troop 1 : 40 x Chaos cultists (160), 40 x Autoguns (0) = 160 points [12PL] <Alpha legion> <Slaanesh>
Troop 2 : 40 x Chaos cultists (160), 40 x Autoguns (0) = 160 points [12PL] <Black legion> <Slaanesh>
Troop 3 : 38 x Chaos cultists (152), 40 x Autopistol (0), Close combat weapon (0) = 152 points [12PL] <Black legion> <Khorne>
Supreme Command Detachment, Keyword: Thousand Sons, Points: 1116, 54PL, CP: 1
Lord of war: Magnus the Red (445) = 445 points [23] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch>
HQ 1: Ahriman (131) = 131 points [7PL] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch>
HQ 2: Daemon Prince (146), (Wings 24), Malefic talons (10) = 180 points [8PL] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch> HQ 3: Daemon Prince (146), (Wings 24), Malefic talons (10) = 180 points [8PL] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch> HQ 4: Daemon Prince (146), (Wings 24), Malefic talons (10) = 180 points [8PL] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch> Total: (2000) = 2000 points 113PL, 11CP

Doesn't look like a Thousand Sons list at all. Why say you're playing thousand sons at all if you're just playing a bunch of daemon princes and 120 cultists?

the_scotsman wrote:

casdark wrote:
Hi, i'm a new TS player. I founded this list online. What do you think?

Battalion Detachment, Keyword: Chaos Space marines, Points: 884, 59PL, CP: 5 (+2 from Abaddon) 7 CP
HQ 1 : Abaddon the Despoiler (240), (Warlord) = 240 points [12PL] <Black legion> <Mark of Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Nurgle> HQ 2 : Exalted champion (70), Power sword (4), Bolt pistol (0), Murder sword relic (0) = 74 Points [5PL] <Black legion> <Khorne> HQ 3 : Chaos sorcerer (90), Force sword (8), Bolt pistol (0) = 98 points [6PL] <Black legion> <Mark of Slaanesh>
Troop 1 : 40 x Chaos cultists (160), 40 x Autoguns (0) = 160 points [12PL] <Alpha legion> <Slaanesh>
Troop 2 : 40 x Chaos cultists (160), 40 x Autoguns (0) = 160 points [12PL] <Black legion> <Slaanesh>
Troop 3 : 38 x Chaos cultists (152), 40 x Autopistol (0), Close combat weapon (0) = 152 points [12PL] <Black legion> <Khorne>
Supreme Command Detachment, Keyword: Thousand Sons, Points: 1116, 54PL, CP: 1
Lord of war: Magnus the Red (445) = 445 points [23] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch>
HQ 1: Ahriman (131) = 131 points [7PL] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch>
HQ 2: Daemon Prince (146), (Wings 24), Malefic talons (10) = 180 points [8PL] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch> HQ 3: Daemon Prince (146), (Wings 24), Malefic talons (10) = 180 points [8PL] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch> HQ 4: Daemon Prince (146), (Wings 24), Malefic talons (10) = 180 points [8PL] <Thousand Sons> <Tzeentch> Total: (2000) = 2000 points 113PL, 11CP

Doesn't look like a Thousand Sons list at all. Why say you're playing thousand sons at all if you're just playing a bunch of daemon princes and 120 cultists?

I didn't said "I play TS at all". Why I should play mono TS list when I can combine more chaos army?

Because it's a different codex? It's like saying you are a new Space Wolves Player and playing a smurf army with a couple of Space Wolf characters.

Nothing wrong with it per se, but this is a thread about Thousand Sons tactics. One, you are off topic, your list should be in the Army Lists section. Two, casdark is right, this is a CSM list with 4 Thousand Sons models, three of which you could get from the CSM codex regardless.

Deleted.

Pure TSons list, thoughts? Going for hobby shop level competitive, ITC / maelstrom ruleset:

Batallion:
Ahriman (warlord)
Sorcerer (Dark Matter Crystal)
Rubric Marines 9x (all vanilla)
Rubric Marines 9x (all vanilla)
Tzaangors x29 with brayhorn
rhinos x2 (vanilla)
vortex beasts x2

Vanguard
Sorcerer (Helm of the Third Eye)
Chaos decimators with soul burners x3

2000 points
8cp (after relics)

Basically low drops - hope to go first, rubrics start in rhinos of course. Throw the vortex beasts up the board with warptime and pop mortal aura and have the tzaangors drop in with the dark matter crystal to give them something to worry about besides the decimators. In the meantime, most spells are going to be damaging (smite/doombolt/infernal gaze/gift of chaos/maaaaybe firestorm) as opposed to protection to really put the hurt in. Rubrics are the antiscreen and would be used for weaver/glamour.

It gives up BGH pretty easily but not much else for ITC (I think) - reaper would be a guaranteed 2 but capped, and headhunter is 3 but would essentially have to wipe my forces to get it.

Going for pure TSons - Most CP going to daemonforge, cabalistic forces, blasphamous machines, VOTLW, warpflame gargoyles, and maybe baleful vortex...

If I'm not mistaken the vortex beasts can stack the -1 ap aura too on the tzaangors(?) should make them shred although I'd have to hit an 8 inch charge with rerolls... At minimum the tzaangors should soak some damage.

Smite spam is basically my counter-charge.

list is too squishy for serious competitive play but thoughts? Maybe drop the rhinos and go for webway infiltration put points towards something else?