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Coh Magnussen wrote:
Thanks, warhead. Sadly so far my "playstyle" is merely theoretical -- i don't have anywhere near a whole army yet. I'm thinking I need to finish a kill-team (use up some of those burna-bitz) then go back to work on the army so I can actually start playing something .

Sounds like a good plan. I guess in your cans I'd say take your time buying your army, get what you think looks cool but don't go whole hog buying, a splash of this and that to try without spindling all your teef in one go.
and can't go wrong with Boys mobs either. Even some grots as troop filler, should you need it, are a reasonable choice even if not the most competitive.

If you just making a list then I'd look at how am I going to score kill point, take objectives and own table space and then sort that out.
Orks are a lot of fun but can be very challenging to play depending on what across the table from you. Best of luck!

 Grimskul wrote:

Yeah, unfortunately, as is Big Shootas are worth 0 points like shootas, since they're a sidegrade at best and a tax at worst for vehicles like Trukks. They'd have to become Rapid Fire 3 to be worth the current points they are or gain -1 AP to at least do something against their targets.

Oh PLEASE you can't be seriously.

Assault 2, S4, AP0, 18" range
Assault 3, S5, 36" range

You SERIOUSLY claim those are 100% exact value? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

That's about as stupid claim as the fellow that claimed Grey knights should cost exact same as tacticals without change on rules. Yeah. Double firepower, better CCW, psychic abilities all for free with no downside whatsoever.

Sheesh. And I thought GW game designers were total rookies.

tneva82 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Yeah, unfortunately, as is Big Shootas are worth 0 points like shootas, since they're a sidegrade at best and a tax at worst for vehicles like Trukks. They'd have to become Rapid Fire 3 to be worth the current points they are or gain -1 AP to at least do something against their targets.

Oh PLEASE you can't be seriously.

Assault 2, S4, AP0, 18" range
Assault 3, S5, 36" range

You SERIOUSLY claim those are 100% exact value? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

That's about as stupid claim as the fellow that claimed Grey knights should cost exact same as tacticals without change on rules. Yeah. Double firepower, better CCW, psychic abilities all for free with no downside whatsoever.

Sheesh. And I thought GW game designers were total rookies.

I wouldn't take his comment 100% literally but he has somewhat of a point. The Big shootas effectiveness is minimal that half the time I don't even try to shoot them if we are time constrained. What is a player willing to pay for it that makes it worthwhile? If a Trukk came with a shoota, how much would I invest to upgrade to a big shoota. Realistically, 0 points. Those points are better spent elsewhere and I'll deal with a plain shoota on a trukk and reduce the cost of my transport. Unfortunately that big shoota is a tax on trukks because the damage output is so low. I think this is the point the OP had. There's always going to be a better option than taking a big shoota, even with + 18" range and +1 S. We can't hit for beans so it doesn't matter.

mhalko1 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Yeah, unfortunately, as is Big Shootas are worth 0 points like shootas, since they're a sidegrade at best and a tax at worst for vehicles like Trukks. They'd have to become Rapid Fire 3 to be worth the current points they are or gain -1 AP to at least do something against their targets.

Oh PLEASE you can't be seriously.

Assault 2, S4, AP0, 18" range
Assault 3, S5, 36" range

You SERIOUSLY claim those are 100% exact value? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

That's about as stupid claim as the fellow that claimed Grey knights should cost exact same as tacticals without change on rules. Yeah. Double firepower, better CCW, psychic abilities all for free with no downside whatsoever.

Sheesh. And I thought GW game designers were total rookies.

I wouldn't take his comment 100% literally but he has somewhat of a point. The Big shootas effectiveness is minimal that half the time I don't even try to shoot them if we are time constrained. What is a player willing to pay for it that makes it worthwhile? If a Trukk came with a shoota, how much would I invest to upgrade to a big shoota. Realistically, 0 points. Those points are better spent elsewhere and I'll deal with a plain shoota on a trukk and reduce the cost of my transport. Unfortunately that big shoota is a tax on trukks because the damage output is so low. I think this is the point the OP had. There's always going to be a better option than taking a big shoota, even with + 18" range and +1 S. We can't hit for beans so it doesn't matter.

Exactly this. The big shoota is not worth 1 point, so unless we suddenly do fractions, it is worth 0 points, which puts them in an odd situation since you would never not take them.

Personally I wouldn't mind them being free.

 Jidmah wrote:

mhalko1 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Yeah, unfortunately, as is Big Shootas are worth 0 points like shootas, since they're a sidegrade at best and a tax at worst for vehicles like Trukks. They'd have to become Rapid Fire 3 to be worth the current points they are or gain -1 AP to at least do something against their targets.

Oh PLEASE you can't be seriously.

Assault 2, S4, AP0, 18" range
Assault 3, S5, 36" range

You SERIOUSLY claim those are 100% exact value? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

That's about as stupid claim as the fellow that claimed Grey knights should cost exact same as tacticals without change on rules. Yeah. Double firepower, better CCW, psychic abilities all for free with no downside whatsoever.

Sheesh. And I thought GW game designers were total rookies.

I wouldn't take his comment 100% literally but he has somewhat of a point. The Big shootas effectiveness is minimal that half the time I don't even try to shoot them if we are time constrained. What is a player willing to pay for it that makes it worthwhile? If a Trukk came with a shoota, how much would I invest to upgrade to a big shoota. Realistically, 0 points. Those points are better spent elsewhere and I'll deal with a plain shoota on a trukk and reduce the cost of my transport. Unfortunately that big shoota is a tax on trukks because the damage output is so low. I think this is the point the OP had. There's always going to be a better option than taking a big shoota, even with + 18" range and +1 S. We can't hit for beans so it doesn't matter.

Exactly this. The big shoota is not worth 1 point, so unless we suddenly do fractions, it is worth 0 points, which puts them in an odd situation since you would never not take them.

Personally I wouldn't mind them being free.

Which is why at its current price it needs a buff. They shouldn't be free because then nobody would ever not take them, but at the same time they aren't worth even 1 point, like you said. At this point they just need a straight upgrade.

It's interesting, isn't it- so very often, you look at statistics and equations, and something, yes, is not worth much. But then you run into that situation where a single model is out of range of your Boyz' regular shootas, but the Big Shootas you stuck in the unit have the range, and take it out- keeping it from contesting an objective, or swaying a combat round, or blocking a charge or whatever- and all because you popped that extra point or two into something you weren't expecting to use.


I used to peruse WFB forums and discussions a lot (in... 7th?) and it was very interesting the difference that their lack of MEQ created. A 3-shot, S5 36" weapon in that game would be worth 20 points on its own, practically, even without the unit carrying it. And players would consider that sort of extra ranged punch- even 3 shots at BS2- a worthwhile tactical investment, in case of the sorts of situations I enumerated above.

Now, a lot of that was probably due to just plain different rule systems. Infantry blocks, wheeling and facing and all, made single-model outrider units much more important- taking a model or two off a unit before a close combat to remove a rank bonus could make a rout into a victory, and base-size rules meant that there were a LOT more lonely Characters running around. But still.

I have to wonder if those little additions, those odd little choices that make a unit or army less homogenous, might not have a place. Those one or two rockets that let a Boyz mob smack a Rhino, maybe knocking it out when they couldn't reach it, or the Big Shoota on a Trukk, or an extra re-roll for a Flash Git could be the difference between victory and defeat. Not always- certainly not always. But sometimes. Might that not be worth the little tweaks, the one or two fewer Boyz in the army?

Since units can now target different weapons at different targets, rokkits in boyz mobs would be decent choices if they were costed properly. They enable mobs to do something they normally couldn't, and they are pretty hard to kill. If you mob up nearly dead mobs as often as possible, you could keep your rokkits alive for most of your game.

Big shootas, however, are in a problematic space right now. They don't actually provide any compared to a shoota benefit beyond 12" range and an extra shot that's not likely to anything in the first place.
The difference in strength between those weapons doesn't ever matter outside of T4 models, who are either MEQ with good armor (even higher chance for the extra shot to do nothing) or horde unit which need much higher rates of fire than BS5+ assault 3 to damage in meaningful way.

So, you are right in a way that having a big shoota is definitely better than not having a big shoota. However, even at one point per big shoota, spending those points elsewhere (ammo runt, big choppa, wrecking ball or smiliar) is much more likely to impact your game.
It's pretty much like those plague swords I can buy my plague marine champions. You trade "re-roll ones to wound" for "re-roll all failed to wound rolls". However, a plague marine champion is never going to do a whole lot in combat, no matter whether he has a sword or a knife, therefore I only ever buy them when I have one or two points left - after all, having one is better than not having one, but having something else is better.

I was a big shoota fan for many years but I've kinda moved on to no special weapons in my mobs. I just don't see the point any more. The thing is, and I'm not sure how or if it's changed, last editions there were lots of times when they were good to have. I'd find situations where I had cut out the center of the enemy army and they start to withdraw, leaving me in the center. The problem is I would have been out of charge range and been down to probably mostly boys. Previously Bitg Shootas were good for damaging units while slowly trudging up the table to get into charge range. Now Mobs just fly up the table.
So I guess deciding who gets the big shootas is important.
My problem is that I know I need at least 4 of them to have a positive effect. 3 in a full mobs in not going to create a positive effect. It's more a neutral.
I don't care for rockit boys either. Single shot weapons are more or less pointless and 3 of them in a mob will be in the same position as the big shootas are, not shooting or hitting on a 6+ due to advancing or once again out of range.
I don't see them as wroth the points when we can just take tank bustas. (I feel like I have said all of this before...It must come up a lot. )

What are the rumored strategems? I'll use them in the next tourney.

I personally run 2 rokkits in my shoota boy mob. I am by no means competitive, but I brought my Ork army to my first (serious) tourny one time and I run 2 mobz of boyz, one 30 man choppa unit that is meant for da jump (or warpath if I think the enemy was coming to me, which they did) and a 20 man unit of shootas with the said rokkits that rides in an open-topped battlewagon. I only won one game (which I was happy with to be honest), but man, people didn't seem to take into account that little bit of extra punch inside my battlewagon.

tneva82 wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

Yeah, unfortunately, as is Big Shootas are worth 0 points like shootas, since they're a sidegrade at best and a tax at worst for vehicles like Trukks. They'd have to become Rapid Fire 3 to be worth the current points they are or gain -1 AP to at least do something against their targets.

Oh PLEASE you can't be seriously.

Assault 2, S4, AP0, 18" range
Assault 3, S5, 36" range

You SERIOUSLY claim those are 100% exact value? Seriously? SERIOUSLY?

That's about as stupid claim as the fellow that claimed Grey knights should cost exact same as tacticals without change on rules. Yeah. Double firepower, better CCW, psychic abilities all for free with no downside whatsoever.

Sheesh. And I thought GW game designers were total rookies.

Yes, in my opinion there is little to no difference between a big shoota and a regular shoota since they are both USELESS. Shootas are too short ranged and lack any kind of damage or AP to be worth much, add to that the fact that to use them you have to forego advancing or neuter their already lackluster damage by an additional 50%.
As for the Big Shoota, 3 shots at 36 at S5 isn't terrible (Heavy Bolter) but instead of hitting 2/3rds of the time and having -1 to AP they are hitting 1/3rd of the time and have no AP. So compared to the Shoota (which is free) you gain 18' range and +1 strength but you can only have 1 per 10 boyz meaning at most you will have 3 and each one you buy costs the same as 1 boy. Comparing the Heavy Bolter to the big shoota and you can see why its considered a waste of points. I don't see Marine players taking Heavy bolters btw, meaning they aren't good enough and they cost 10pts, have the same damage, same range and same strength, they are -1 AP though and hit on 3s instead of 5s. So at 10pts the Heavy bolter is considered over priced by Marine players while the significantly worse Big Shoota is 3/5ths the cost but 50% less accurate and lacking -1 AP.

The big difference is that I can see them being a bit more then a side upgrade, at 1 or possibly even 2pts they would be meh, but at 6 they are just utterly worthless. So why are Shootas and Big Shootas the same? because they both suck and nobody wants to pay points for them

On a related note, how about that Kustom Shoota, 4pt upgrade LMAO, I wouldn't pay 1 pt for that no matter what, so that one should be a free or become standard equipment for nobz instead of the regular shoota.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And on a related note, last edition Rokkitz were 5ppm and I would take 2 on a battlewagon ONLY because I wanted to make sure I didn't get immobilized because I didn't have a weapon to destroy. For 10pts it was a decent upgrade and occasionally did something, I never took 1 let alone 3 in a boyz squad because they are a waste of time for the most part and I would rather have the extra +1 attack for 2 CCWs then a weapon that will literally hit 1/3rd of the time and wound most vehicles in the game 1/2 the time, meaning 1 game turn on average it would do something (Not capable of destroying a vehicle unless it was down to 1HP or open topped)

So I get the idea that GW wanted to "Shrink" the size of the games by massively upping the cost of everything for the most part, but when a weapon costs 5pts and was considered meh, and the other weapon was the same cost (big shoota) and never taken, how the hell do they justify giving the meh one a 140% increase in cost and the other one a 20% increase in cost, beyond saying FU to ork players?

Except shootas don#t suck. They are rather usefull. Especially with da jump where pure melee sucks as half the time squad will die with zero impact.

As is big shoota is overpriced but anybody claiming shoota and big shoota should cost same is not somebody that should be allowed to design game. There would be literally zero reason to not take shoota over big shoota. That's silly game design to extreme. Exact point values can be arqued but they need to be separated. That's undeniable fact.

tneva82 wrote:
Except shootas don#t suck. They are rather usefull. Especially with da jump where pure melee sucks as half the time squad will die with zero impact.

As is big shoota is overpriced but anybody claiming shoota and big shoota should cost same is not somebody that should be allowed to design game. There would be literally zero reason to not take shoota over big shoota. That's silly game design to extreme. Exact point values can be arqued but they need to be separated. That's undeniable fact.

Even if the points for the shoota and big shoota were the same there is still a reason we can't take the big shoota instead of the shoota - it simply isn't allowed. We can't take full squads of Boyz all with big shootas, only one in ten can take them soo we simply don't have the option to take them instead of shootas. Most vehicles. probably all, can only take the big shoota and it is effectively a tax as it is currently. Nobz can't take big shootas. So the reason not to take one already exists - it is written into the rules.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Except shootas don#t suck. They are rather usefull. Especially with da jump where pure melee sucks as half the time squad will die with zero impact.

As is big shoota is overpriced but anybody claiming shoota and big shoota should cost same is not somebody that should be allowed to design game. There would be literally zero reason to not take shoota over big shoota. That's silly game design to extreme. Exact point values can be arqued but they need to be separated. That's undeniable fact.

Even if the points for the shoota and big shoota were the same there is still a reason we can't take the big shoota instead of the shoota - it simply isn't allowed. We can't take full squads of Boyz all with big shootas, only one in ten can take them soo we simply don't have the option to take them instead of shootas. Most vehicles. probably all, can only take the big shoota and it is effectively a tax as it is currently. Nobz can't take big shootas. So the reason not to take one already exists - it is written into the rules.

I thought he was saying in a squad of Shootas taking the big shoota and not the Shoota.

1 in 10 I think is the real problem above the price of the Big Shoota. At current costs give me 2 in 10 and they will have a place in my list and would be respectable. With both the Big shoota and the rokkit in the kit they should have made it 2 in 10.

 warhead01 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Except shootas don#t suck. They are rather usefull. Especially with da jump where pure melee sucks as half the time squad will die with zero impact.

As is big shoota is overpriced but anybody claiming shoota and big shoota should cost same is not somebody that should be allowed to design game. There would be literally zero reason to not take shoota over big shoota. That's silly game design to extreme. Exact point values can be arqued but they need to be separated. That's undeniable fact.

Even if the points for the shoota and big shoota were the same there is still a reason we can't take the big shoota instead of the shoota - it simply isn't allowed. We can't take full squads of Boyz all with big shootas, only one in ten can take them soo we simply don't have the option to take them instead of shootas. Most vehicles. probably all, can only take the big shoota and it is effectively a tax as it is currently. Nobz can't take big shootas. So the reason not to take one already exists - it is written into the rules.

I thought he was saying in a squad of Shootas taking the big shoota and not the Shoota.

1 in 10 I think is the real problem above the price of the Big Shoota. At current costs give me 2 in 10 and they will have a place in my list and would be respectable. With both the Big shoota and the rokkit in the kit they should have made it 2 in 10.

Yeah but I think of the big shoota as the weapon that takes points I could be spending in another boys mob. Either starting to build an extra unit or add to any that aren't full.

mhalko1 wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Except shootas don#t suck. They are rather usefull. Especially with da jump where pure melee sucks as half the time squad will die with zero impact.

As is big shoota is overpriced but anybody claiming shoota and big shoota should cost same is not somebody that should be allowed to design game. There would be literally zero reason to not take shoota over big shoota. That's silly game design to extreme. Exact point values can be arqued but they need to be separated. That's undeniable fact.

Even if the points for the shoota and big shoota were the same there is still a reason we can't take the big shoota instead of the shoota - it simply isn't allowed. We can't take full squads of Boyz all with big shootas, only one in ten can take them soo we simply don't have the option to take them instead of shootas. Most vehicles. probably all, can only take the big shoota and it is effectively a tax as it is currently. Nobz can't take big shootas. So the reason not to take one already exists - it is written into the rules.

I thought he was saying in a squad of Shootas taking the big shoota and not the Shoota.

1 in 10 I think is the real problem above the price of the Big Shoota. At current costs give me 2 in 10 and they will have a place in my list and would be respectable. With both the Big shoota and the rokkit in the kit they should have made it 2 in 10.

Yeah but I think of the big shoota as the weapon that takes points I could be spending in another boys mob. Either starting to build an extra unit or add to any that aren't full.

I'm in the same boat but I think that is because the game pushes me in that direction even if that extra boy isn't even going to do anything, aside from be counted for Mob rule. There should come a point where we realize that that extra boy isn't that crucial. I would approve of a points reduction on the big shoota but as I said just let me have more of them. If your talking about building your army/you models then it's the same as it is now either way you have the same decisions to big shoota/rokkit or not to big shoota/rokkit. Unless I am completely misunderstanding what you mean.

Another question that I don't know if it's been mathed out is, just how many big shoota does it really take to "be worth it." In editions past I would bring 4 in every mob all the time but we could have 4 big shootas in as few as 10 models back then.

 warhead01 wrote:


I'm in the same boat but I think that is because the game pushes me in that direction even if that extra boy isn't even going to do anything, aside from be counted for Mob rule. There should come a point where we realize that that extra boy isn't that crucial. I would approve of a points reduction on the big shoota but as I said just let me have more of them. If your talking about building your army/you models then it's the same as it is now either way you have the same decisions to big shoota/rokkit or not to big shoota/rokkit. Unless I am completely misunderstanding what you mean.

Another question that I don't know if it's been mathed out is, just how many big shoota does it really take to "be worth it." In editions past I would bring 4 in every mob all the time but we could have 4 big shootas in as few as 10 models back then.

If a big shoota was a 2 pt upgrade and you could take 2 for every 10 models (double what you can take now) then they might be worth it, but on a vehicle? a single 3 shot weapon that hits on 5s is kind of worthless, but at 1-2pts it would fall in the same category as a storm bolter, and ironically be about as effective.

SemperMortis wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:


I'm in the same boat but I think that is because the game pushes me in that direction even if that extra boy isn't even going to do anything, aside from be counted for Mob rule. There should come a point where we realize that that extra boy isn't that crucial. I would approve of a points reduction on the big shoota but as I said just let me have more of them. If your talking about building your army/you models then it's the same as it is now either way you have the same decisions to big shoota/rokkit or not to big shoota/rokkit. Unless I am completely misunderstanding what you mean.

Another question that I don't know if it's been mathed out is, just how many big shoota does it really take to "be worth it." In editions past I would bring 4 in every mob all the time but we could have 4 big shootas in as few as 10 models back then.

If a big shoota was a 2 pt upgrade and you could take 2 for every 10 models (double what you can take now) then they might be worth it, but on a vehicle? a single 3 shot weapon that hits on 5s is kind of worthless, but at 1-2pts it would fall in the same category as a storm bolter, and ironically be about as effective.

Vehicles is a whole other matter to me. Usually I have several able to shoot the same target so it's less of a loss of fire power. Last time was 4 trukks and 3 war trakks, big shootas and the twin big shootas all hitting the same target. I only add them to trukks because I have to. I would skip them if it were an option.

But again, at the moment, the Big shoota is a 6pt tax the trukk HAS to pay to be used. Either make the damn thing free or make it worth 6pts, and at 6pts it would need to be assault 6 or even higher.

tneva82 wrote:
Except shootas don#t suck. They are rather usefull. Especially with da jump where pure melee sucks as half the time squad will die with zero impact.

As is big shoota is overpriced but anybody claiming shoota and big shoota should cost same is not somebody that should be allowed to design game. There would be literally zero reason to not take shoota over big shoota. That's silly game design to extreme. Exact point values can be arqued but they need to be separated. That's undeniable fact.

The shoota is not worth a single point.
The big shoota is not worth a single point.

Put a point cost on either and it will not be bought outside of wasting the last few points or someone playing his models as WYSIWYG.

It's as simple as that.

 Jidmah wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Except shootas don#t suck. They are rather usefull. Especially with da jump where pure melee sucks as half the time squad will die with zero impact.

As is big shoota is overpriced but anybody claiming shoota and big shoota should cost same is not somebody that should be allowed to design game. There would be literally zero reason to not take shoota over big shoota. That's silly game design to extreme. Exact point values can be arqued but they need to be separated. That's undeniable fact.

The shoota is not worth a single point.
The big shoota is not worth a single point.

Put a point cost on either and it will not be bought outside of wasting the last few points or someone playing his models as WYSIWYG.

It's as simple as that.

agreed, except i would pay 1 or maybe 2 points for a BS. rokkitz need to go back to 5pts as well

Anybody else wonder if big shootas would be good on vehicles if we could take like.. twenty of them on a trukk?

edit, I think I've posted this very idea here once

/orkswoon

haha...I'd definitely build and try that, if it became an option!

Yeah, what I meant was basically opportunity cost, which was why I considered big shootas (with their current profile and points, as well as their availability on units) to be functionally worth 0.

Also, if I could take a unit full of big shootas, I'd totes go for it. ALL THE DAKKA!

in killteam you can equip loota/burna spanners with bigshootas, and I've been wanting to try out a killteam list that's just like 6 spanners with big shootas, and a couple of big shoota boyz...probably a kombiskorcha bossnob leader and then grots to fill out points...I think big shootas could have some real potential in killteam

...yeah yeah, I know this was a bit of a tangent, but whatever

 ZoBo wrote:
in killteam you can equip loota/burna spanners with bigshootas, and I've been wanting to try out a killteam list that's just like 6 spanners with big shootas, and a couple of big shoota boyz...probably a kombiskorcha bossnob leader and then grots to fill out points...I think big shootas could have some real potential in killteam

...yeah yeah, I know this was a bit of a tangent, but whatever

You're better off with a grot leader actually.

 koooaei wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:
in killteam you can equip loota/burna spanners with bigshootas, and I've been wanting to try out a killteam list that's just like 6 spanners with big shootas, and a couple of big shoota boyz...probably a kombiskorcha bossnob leader and then grots to fill out points...I think big shootas could have some real potential in killteam

...yeah yeah, I know this was a bit of a tangent, but whatever

You're better off with a grot leader actually.

because they're cheap, easy to hide, and you're not really gonna use it in a fight right?...yeah...I guess...it just seems wrong though

I don't think that big shootas are worthless, but I do think they should be cheaper.

There's no sense in whinging about them having worse AP than a heavy bolter - they always did, they used to be AP5 vs a HB's AP4. against any non-paper army, they were as effective against armour as a shoota anyway.

Vs Marines, they haven't changed - they're still a long-range little kick from a squad which got left on the flanks, having either killed the enemy or been outmanouvered by them. you can expect a hit per model with a 3+ to wound a marine at 36" range. 3 BS in a mob should score 2 wounds on a tactical squad. At 19-36" range, they are infinitely more effective than an extra boy with a shoota.

My personal view is that the added flexibility and comparative cheapness to rokkits (rokkits don't half add up!) should make them worth considering for a TAC army.

They have gotten worse against all T3 armies though: Eldar, Daemons, Humans...

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, what I meant was basically opportunity cost, which was why I considered big shootas (with their current profile and points, as well as their availability on units) to be functionally worth 0.

Also, if I could take a unit full of big shootas, I'd totes go for it. ALL THE DAKKA!

I'm currently taking inventory on my orks in prep for fixing them up/touching up paint for Orktober. I have found that I have a metric assload of big shoota boys. It seems a shame that they never see table time. I'd run a unit of them at the drop of a squig. I guess I could use them as lootas? They seem too lightly armed for that.