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You get a free unit of gretchin with ever two mek guns you buy

(assumption being he meant mek guns are single profile combo unit and crew is just there on board but aren't played as unit as before)

That until you run into tournament where not having 5 grot crew on gun is considered modeling for advantage as your gun will occupy less table space.

Which albeit is somewhat valid. If the crew is just there on board without being own unit as now unless they are also specifically said not to count for measuring etc and models can be put where crew used to be(removed from table temporarily to make space if needed) you are better off NOT having crew models on table. But this one easily triggers MFA accusations.

Tabletop Tactics played them without the grots on the board at all. Also they noted they are not Ork keyword, so they don't benefit from chapter tactics.

 hollow one wrote:
Tabletop Tactics played them without the grots on the board at all. Also they noted they are not Ork keyword, so they don't benefit from chapter tactics.

Well price isn't as steep but still price increased and loss of unit so double nerfbat there. Certainly models aren't NEEDED anymore then so if tournaments allow that then that's at least one way to compensate for nerf by advantage that provides(and solves my crewless KMK issue). But surprisingly many nerfs on codex lol.

No Kultur keyword makes them hot garbage. Mostly I’ll need to sit down with the codex and likely use the index still.

This review is up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhsn_EAvesw

Is Kultur keyword replace the clan keyword in the index

So I'm thinking this for a 1500 pts core for Deffskulls MSU

2x Deffkilla Wartrike
2x SAG Mek
3x 20 Boyz, 1 Rokkit
3x 10 Grots
6x single Dragsta

That's across 2 Battalions for 10 CP and lots of open slots for stuff. MSU advantage is maximizing the kultur re-rolls, major downside is you get a lot less benefit from strategems.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So I'm thinking this for a 1500 pts core for Deffskulls MSU

2x Deffkilla Wartrike
2x SAG Mek
3x 20 Boyz, 1 Rokkit
3x 10 Grots
6x single Dragsta

That's across 2 Battalions for 10 CP and lots of open slots for stuff. MSU advantage is maximizing the kultur re-rolls, major downside is you get a lot less benefit from strategems.

You can't take grots in that detachment, they don't have clan traits. Unless I am mistaken, you need boyz.

Don't be silly, there's no Grot-only detachments.

there is no way they've been apocalyptically dense enough to make it so that you basically can't run grots...what are you on about?

however, that list is still borked, 6 single dragsta's...rule of 3...

I was under the impression that a <clan> detachment had to consist of only units that had the <clan> keyword. You can still take them in an Ork (no bonus) detachment.

Just going off the leaks, but that sounds like the way it is written.

Killa Kans also.

ETA: Is it just that they are missing the Kultur keyword and not the <Clan> keyword?

 ZoBo wrote:
however, that list is still borked, 6 single dragsta's...rule of 3...

Dragstas are 1-3 per slot but split into 1-model units, so that's only 2 selections. You can have 9 of them, or in fact any other type of buggy.

Anyone mind helping me with the index/codex flowchart thingy? Im having trouble understanding what to do if a peice of wargear exists in the codex, but the unit carrying it no longer does.

Namely, if I take a big mek on bike with KFF, do I use the profile from the index for the Mek and the profile for the KFF from the new codex?

Why are people taking 20 Boyz now? What changed?

 JimOnMars wrote:
I was under the impression that a <clan> detachment had to consist of only units that had the <clan> keyword. You can still take them in an Ork (no bonus) detachment.

Just going off the leaks, but that sounds like the way it is written.

Killa Kans also.

ETA: Is it just that they are missing the Kultur keyword and not the <Clan> keyword?

I think You can still take grots as a troop choice, but because they don't have a clan keyword, they can't benifit from clan/kulture traits or strategems.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:
however, that list is still borked, 6 single dragsta's...rule of 3...

Dragstas are 1-3 per slot but split into 1-model units, so that's only 2 selections. You can have 9 of them, or in fact any other type of buggy.

yeah I know that, hence my objection ...the way it was written sounded like 6 single-dragsta units, not 2 three-dragsta units, or 3 two-dragsta units...referring to list-building, not in-game, after deployment...

That's a bit nitpicky... I was emphasizing that they operate independently because the point of the list is to abuse Deffskull re-rolls.

Shrapnelbait wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

ETA: Is it just that they are missing the Kultur keyword and not the <Clan> keyword?

I think You can still take grots as a troop choice, but because they don't have a clan keyword, they can't benifit from clan/kulture traits or strategems.

They still have <CLAN>, just no Kultur. This can be seen in one of the images for the ibook Codex preorder.

fe40k wrote:
Why are people taking 20 Boyz now? What changed?

Points and maybe they are meant more for board control than getting stuck in. 60 boyz will be shot down in a turn anyway if enemy wants to in a turn so...What I wonder why 20 if you don't take 2 rokkits and if you want to have 1 rokkit per 1 reroll(though that assumes every stage you NEED to use reroll...That's some pessimism to assume you miss on first roll every time!) why not go for 6x10 with rokkit each? Could even be tougher that way with wasted shots for opponent and you can faill every invidivual roll and have reroll


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZoBo wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:
however, that list is still borked, 6 single dragsta's...rule of 3...

Dragstas are 1-3 per slot but split into 1-model units, so that's only 2 selections. You can have 9 of them, or in fact any other type of buggy.

yeah I know that, hence my objection ...the way it was written sounded like 6 single-dragsta units, not 2 three-dragsta units, or 3 two-dragsta units...referring to list-building, not in-game, after deployment...

But what's the difference? Well except 6 individually would give you more deployments. But for in game reroll it's irrelevant right? (or do I misremember and they are NOT individual units after deployment?)

what up with these packages they released lol. Seems like they dont provide much of a deal, and you could almost get them individually for same price. (Canadian Funds) 400 for the pole position set, 220 for a set of 4 buggies (55 each).

They aren't discount boxes nor do GW claim them to have discount so nobody can even claim dishonest marketing. They are basically 1 click bundles. They don't cost anything for GW(it's just entry in database) and gives bit less clicking for customers. No big help, no real harm either. They come in their normal boxes as well so 1 click bundle with 4 boxes come in 4 boxes. Discount box meanwhile would have 1 custom made box with own art that contained all.

No shokkjump dragsta either lol.

 davou wrote:
Anyone mind helping me with the index/codex flowchart thingy? Im having trouble understanding what to do if a peice of wargear exists in the codex, but the unit carrying it no longer does.

Namely, if I take a big mek on bike with KFF, do I use the profile from the index for the Mek and the profile for the KFF from the new codex?

If your model doesn't have a datasheet in the codex, you keep using the one from the index.
If wargear your model is using has been updated, you use the points of the codex version.
If wargear your model is using has disappeared from the codex, keep using the index points.

In specific:
You take the big mek on bike datasheet from the index and all rules on it (including the one for the KFF).
You pay the base cost for the model from the index and the wargear costs from the codex for KFF, klaw, shoota and anything else you want to equip him with.

It doesn't matter though, the rumor about the better KFF is fake news. Nothing has changed, the two guys from GMG compared the two books word by word.

Sooo, mixing Kultures and the rules behind it?

I think this is an unintended consequence, and I haven't heard all the rules out of the codex yet, but if it's possible to put one Kulture unit into the transport of a different Kulture, which rules take precedence? In the index, it said that modifiers that apply to the transport apply to the embarked unit, so If you have a Evil Sun trukk with Bad Moon tankbustas, does the Evil Sun 'assault weapons don't have penalty for advancing' rule apply to the tankbustas?
Mobbing Up: haven't heard in any reading of the strategem that it bans units of different kultures from mobbing up. How is that going to work?

Shrapnelbait wrote:
Sooo, mixing Kultures and the rules behind it?

I think this is an unintended consequence, and I haven't heard all the rules out of the codex yet, but if it's possible to put one Kulture unit into the transport of a different Kulture, which rules take precedence? In the index, it said that modifiers that apply to the transport apply to the embarked unit, so If you have a Evil Sun trukk with Bad Moon tankbustas, does the Evil Sun 'assault weapons don't have penalty for advancing' rule apply to the tankbustas?
Mobbing Up: haven't heard in any reading of the strategem that it bans units of different kultures from mobbing up. How is that going to work?

Units inside aren't on board so they dont' confer anything. What page you refer with that claim?

It works same as IG vehicles. They are separate units and unit inside doesn't count for anything except specific exceptions like shooting from open topped(and btw if that's the rule you think it's RESTRICTION or MODIFIER. Not ABILITY. Not same thing. Truk being evil sun has zero effect)

As for mobbing up have we seen the wording of codex strategem?

Game hasn't imploded yet and this isn't first time mixing traits in same army is possible. Indeed it's been possible ever since first codex.

I am not getting warm fuzzies yet about this codex from what I have seen. The points increases to our good units and the units that didn't receive a points decrease has me worried. I do like a lot of this but some of this stuff is just mind boggling. Ghaz went up in price but doesn't get any new buffs/stats/auras. Same for our normal Warboss.

Yeah, blood axes are pretty useless. We allready have the deepsrrike, don't we?

 koooaei wrote:
Yeah, blood axes are pretty useless. We allready have the deepsrrike, don't we?

The fall back and charge seems primarily useful for Deff Dreadz, as IIRC Kanz for some bizarre reason don't have Klan Kultures, so they can't use it. I guess it's also okay on burna boyz? It would make a battlewagon with them inside not get completely neutered when they get love tapped by a few marines.

 Grimskul wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Yeah, blood axes are pretty useless. We allready have the deepsrrike, don't we?

The fall back and charge seems primarily useful for Deff Dreadz, as IIRC Kanz for some bizarre reason don't have Klan Kultures, so they can't use it. I guess it's also okay on burna boyz? It would make a battlewagon with them inside not get completely neutered when they get love tapped by a few marines.

Fall back thing is alas fairly rarely useful. Past year it would have been ONCE actually useful. Generally in 2 combat phases either enemy dies, I die or enemy fall backs...And the 1 time it would have been useful evil sun trait would have been more impactfull anyway. And here deff dread enjoys more of +1 to charge for fairly reliable DZ charge.

For last one somebody tags BW can't you just disembark out of it? Or does that count as fall back? (hasn't come much into use as I have no armies with worthwhile transports and the times I use ork transports they just gets blown out rather than tagged)

Blood axe sounded better on rumours but now feels like one of the 2 weakest ones(among goffs). Well every codex has bad traits so no surprise orks have those


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
Yeah, blood axes are pretty useless. We allready have the deepsrrike, don't we?

The blood axe DS strategem does allow PL8 or lower units for half the CP price and deep striking PL21+ units which regular DS can't do so that's something. Alas 20 boyz are 9PL in index and unlikely to drop to 8 with the boyz nerf. 20 boyz units for 1CP could be useful for something. Can\t IIRC even use for grots as they don\t have kultur right? Those could be used for objective grabbing I suppose but nope.