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 Rismonite wrote:
All of my planes and walkers should choose Deffskullz, change my mind?

Maybe Bad Moonz on a Dakkajet?

Vehicles that have weapons with numerous shots, choose Bad Moonz, vehicles that shoot less then 6 shots, use Deff Skullz?

Planes can work I guess but dakkajet would benefit more from bad moon. Reroll 1's for everything rather than 1 when it's multi shot. Deffskulls want few quality shots rather than multiple weaker shots. For walkers...Well better but problem is you want to DS+assault and without evil sun that's too unreliable. And even foot slogging you really want that 2/3" extra speed to get into combat before T3 so for competive list evil sun for walkers pretty much any day. Maybe you could get 1 walker on other clan(likely goff) with the 3d6" strategem. 9" on 3d6 more reliable than 8 on 2d6 anyway.

Deffskull is more for gun platforms and ork walkers(except kans which don't get kultur anyway) are for smashing head in h2h. Not good combination. For deffskulls you are probably looking at the new BS4+ gun battlewagon or some of the new buggies rather than walkers.

There should be no footslogging gits from what i see. They should all be tellyported in while grots score backfield.

From what i see we've turned from a footslogging horde with some deepstrike into a deepstriking horde with some footslogging.

 koooaei wrote:
There should be no footslogging gits from what i see. They should all be tellyported in while grots score backfield.

From what i see we've turned from a footslogging horde with some deepstrike into a deepstriking horde with some footslogging.

Well. Some people insisted on playing stuff like meganobz in trukks in indexes. There's always people who are willing to play weak armies just for sake of it. Hell I have fielded stompa 3 times myself So you will still see footslogging armies. They just get wiped off the board if ork player doesn't slowplay 2-3 turn games.

But yeah ds something. Boys possibility or maybe something even more killy. For backfield scoring grots trump over boyz.

You need something on T1 to ensure enemy can't move chaff forward at will though. Or something that can kill and DS on T3. Otherwise enemy will wall your deep strikers to YOUR half of the table...At which point you are actually worse of DS'ing. IG will be particularly bad for this due to cheap fast(12"+2d6" if they feel like) infantry. Tyranids could be nasty as well. Oh and ironically other ork armies.

edit: Once I get settled on Adeptus Titanicus model painting guess I need to start operation repaint for orks. For example Stormboyz, meganobz, one gorkanaut. All in goff which is bad options. Need to be evil suns. Generally maybe get rid of all bad moon and goff units due to trouble adding 3 clans nevermind 4. That's a lot of repainting to do.

Hi
I have not followed all rumors, but obviously teleporting/ deep strike is a big thing in the new codex. Is not this obsolete since the FAQ rule of no deep strike outside you deployment for the first turn?

Which means you come on T2. There's no rule "anything not on board after T1 dies". That's after T3 so you still have 2 turns. And that way you can actually make it ALIVE to combat. If you try to footslog over with say boyz you make into combat T3 after suffering 2-3 turns of shooting losing 120-180 boyz. Yey! With DS+evil sun trait you can make it in T2 fairly reliably suffering just overwatch so unless you try to charge valiant or two your casualties after hitting first line are fairly small. Albeit first line will be chaff but that's true DS or foot slog. At least you got past those with light casualties.

Nora wrote:
Hi
I have not followed all rumors, but obviously teleporting/ deep strike is a big thing in the new codex. Is not this obsolete since the FAQ rule of no deep strike outside you deployment for the first turn?

The last Big FAQ updated that restriction to be no deepstrike at all on Turn 1 (if I remember correctly) so, presuming you are playing Matched Play, you'll have to wait until turn 2 to use the deepstrike stratagems and abilities just like all other factions. It's not obsolete it just isn't as good as it used to be but it's something that everyone playing Matched Play must abide by, so it's not just us

 Rismonite wrote:
All of my planes and walkers should choose Deffskullz, change my mind?

Maybe Bad Moonz on a Dakkajet?

Vehicles that have weapons with numerous shots, choose Bad Moonz, vehicles that shoot less then 6 shots, use Deff Skullz?

Melee units in a transport with numerous attacks should use Goffs?

Footslogging gitz should be Evil Sunz?

Should Transports use Blood Axe, Deffskullz, or Snake Bitz?

Your walkers should probably be evil sunz, their damage output shooting is irrelevant.
The only plane worth bringing is still the Dakka Jet, and the bomb planes are only good thanks to the fly-over mortal wounds. So bad moons or snakebites (FNP and -1 to hit is really durable)
i like your general rule of less than 6 is deffskulls, i'd subscribe to that in the first instance.
Melee units: if youre deepstriking your boys, they pretty much have to be evil sunz. Otherwise if you've figured out a clever way to get them across the board otherwise, goffs will work.
I think snakebites are the best on transports for durability, pretty much in all cases, assuming you are willing to pay for a KFF (and maybe even if you're not).


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 koooaei wrote:
There should be no footslogging gits from what i see. They should all be tellyported in while grots score backfield.

From what i see we've turned from a footslogging horde with some deepstrike into a deepstriking horde with some footslogging.

TBH the command points are probably worth saving, maybe deep strike one squad, da jump the second squad, then tide of traitors the third squad. Our stratagems are so good, you want to save the CP.

Which of the anti tank buggies seems better? The Shokkjump Dragsta or the Megatrakk Scrapjet?

None of the buggies seem to be good. At least to me. But if you got to choose, the shokkjump is probably the best. On the other hand the squig thingy might be doing more damage if you're running snakebites and spend 3cp for +1 to wound.

The Dragsta has great stats, but 120 is steep. If only it didn't have to buy that damn rokkit launcha.

8pts Kommandos with tankbusta bombs seem pretty great. 1pt more than boyz.

Yep if they could be taken in 30 mob(or did that change?) evil sun kommandos would be automatic choise over boyz for free deep strike and extra h2h ability in cover.

So 42 point kmks are now 60 points? :-( seriously the kmk is not the most expensive ork gun, is it really that good?

I have 4 of them, would be really sad to shelve them.

What is the tractor kannon rule people are referring to?

With the grot shield strategem, would it be worth it to do a front line of max unit grots at the front edge of deployment, then either walk them forward if your opponant has moved up, or da jump them if the opponent has made a defensive gunline.

Behind these, have a KFF mek and Goff or Sunz boyz to huff it up the board. Keep some MANZ or Dreads on the tellyporta to drop in behind the gretchin upfield. With a 3d6 reroll charge, they are almost guaranteed to make it in.

If you spaced out the gretchen, they would be porous enough that you could get boyz through but not allow a counter charge through.

This way, if you don't go first, your expensive unit can't get shot, and you can hopefully weather the first turn shooting with everyone else.

Now that Stormboyz have deepstrike, what are the odds that you could drop a MSU close, but don't engage. The opponent hopefully will engage the big threat you just dropped in front of them, leaving the Stormboyz to move over the lines and engage backfield objectives or units.

How the grot shield strategem work in codex? Is it protection vs one unit shooting or protection for one unit of orks thorough shooting phase?

If 1st then it's not going to be something you can rely on. Enemy will fire at the expensive unit you want to protect with less death star unit shooting first so either you let them go and they get bombarded or you trigger it and then it's wasted.

If it's 2nd it's better though as long as the expensive unit behind is infantry that is best dealt with anti-horde weapons. If not those anti horde weapons will simply wipe the gretchin(not hard job anyway) and then deal with the expensive unit.

I ve played basically only ´nids this edition just to get my money worth after painting and building an army in 7th which had only 1(!!!!!) flyrant.
So maybe I can´t feel the same disappointment from the new codex, I just feel it is nice to have a bit more option and I will write a list based on my playstyle similar to the one I have with nids: some backup, some DS and some fast, hard hitting units.
I did some fast mathammer comparing 20 Kraken genestealer with a Broodlord with them vs 12 bikers+klaw and a warboss on bike with the klaw relics and they are not that different, Bikes survives better vs flamers,bolters and heavy flamers/bolters and just about the same vs lasgun.
Genestealers will pour way more W vs GEQ but vs MEQ and VEQ is just about the same.
This is an ideal scenario where both the Genestealers and the Orks gets 2 turn and than charges, where the Orks get to shoot just once, if you get to shoot twice, as you should, the Orks are way better. Just do not charge terminators or other high AP units, or you are F ED

I'll ask here too.

Ehat our real options against 3 knights in a 1500 pt games are right now?

 koooaei wrote:
I'll ask here too.

Ehat our real options against 3 knights in a 1500 pt games are right now?

I imagine the Stikbomb stratagem (throw 10 of any grenade for 1 CP) on Tankbusta Boyz bombs will basically delete most vehicles. Just have to get them to the target.

Normal Boyz and Kommandos also come with tankbusta bombs as well now. Every little helps.

Ere We Go is confirmed "All or Any" of the dice.

Did some tedious math hammer for 3D6 charges allowing any combination or reroll...95% chance of making 9 inch charge.

74% chance of making it without any rerolls.

 Emicrania wrote:

I did some fast mathammer comparing 20 Kraken genestealer with a Broodlord with them vs 12 bikers+klaw and a warboss on bike with the klaw relics and they are not that different, Bikes survives better vs flamers,bolters and heavy flamers/bolters and just about the same vs lasgun.
Genestealers will pour way more W vs GEQ but vs MEQ and VEQ is just about the same.

Ah yes damage output is only thing that matters. Nevermind 5++ stealers have or ability to simply zoom in faster than jetbike thus ensuring T1 charges if they want whereupon bikers require good luck and co-operation from enemy.

Also 80 S4 -1(1/6 wounds -4) vs 36 S4 -0 attacks for stealers vs bikes. Warboss isn't that much better than broodlord if that. And how you get them same vs better armoured when that's where stealers have advantage due to better save. And against soft targets stealers have talons for reroll 1's to hit. Both hits on same 3+ so not even there.

T3 5+:

20 stealers: 31 dead with rending claws, 34.57 with scything talons
12 bikes: 10,66 with h2h, 6.2222 with guns=16.88 in total. Warboss isn't that much better than broodlord(oh and broodlord would up above casualties).

T4 2+:

stealers: 13,33333244315556 with rending claws. 5,185185184977778 with talons just for completion though you would have to be complete noob to use talons here
bikes: 1,555555555337778 with guns, 1,99999999198 with h2h for about 3.5 wounds. Again warboss doesn't compensate. Relative gap between bikes and stealers just goes up the better safe you have(no wonder since stealers have AP and bikes don't)

Bikes aren't something you use for h2h with orks. They are not h2h. They are harashment unit. They go around taking objectives and attacking tiny backfield units. They don't have punch to hurt anything serious. 20 stealers meanwhile even without broodlord will munch through units. If you use bikes don't go charging in expecting them to kill anything but chaff. Killing tough targets isn't even their job.

tneva82 wrote:
How the grot shield strategem work in codex? Is it protection vs one unit shooting or protection for one unit of orks thorough shooting phase?

If 1st then it's not going to be something you can rely on. Enemy will fire at the expensive unit you want to protect with less death star unit shooting first so either you let them go and they get bombarded or you trigger it and then it's wasted.

If it's 2nd it's better though as long as the expensive unit behind is infantry that is best dealt with anti-horde weapons. If not those anti horde weapons will simply wipe the gretchin(not hard job anyway) and then deal with the expensive unit.

its the 2nd option. pick a unit that is shot at, if there are gretchin within 6" and they are closer to the shooting unit, for the rest of the phase you roll a dice for every UNSAVED wound. on a 2+ the gretchin unit suffers a mortal wound instead. 1CP works only on infantry models (i think)

What do people think about having the shoot battlewagon full of flashgitz? Send the wagon up the table t1 and then just leave it there in the middle, anything in range is taking a beating. It is a lot of points but if you sent some grots up with it they could shield the bugger

Flashgitz seem to be a tad overpriced. Besides, i'm not sure that they will benefit from a freeboota trait if they're inside a vehivle.

ManTube wrote:
What do people think about having the shoot battlewagon full of flashgitz? Send the wagon up the table t1 and then just leave it there in the middle, anything in range is taking a beating. It is a lot of points but if you sent some grots up with it they could shield the bugger

The gunwagon version of the battlewagon is unfortunately not open topped. It has the "ard case"-upgrade built in, so transported infantry can't shoot.

Morkanaut with kff with grot screen...
Morkanaut gives everyone around it a 5+ save and grots eat all the shooting on a 2+.

tneva82 wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:

I did some fast mathammer comparing 20 Kraken genestealer with a Broodlord with them vs 12 bikers+klaw and a warboss on bike with the klaw relics and they are not that different, Bikes survives better vs flamers,bolters and heavy flamers/bolters and just about the same vs lasgun.
Genestealers will pour way more W vs GEQ but vs MEQ and VEQ is just about the same.

Ah yes damage output is only thing that matters. Nevermind 5++ stealers have or ability to simply zoom in faster than jetbike thus ensuring T1 charges if they want whereupon bikers require good luck and co-operation from enemy.

Also 80 S4 -1(1/6 wounds -4) vs 36 S4 -0 attacks for stealers vs bikes. Warboss isn't that much better than broodlord if that. And how you get them same vs better armoured when that's where stealers have advantage due to better save. And against soft targets stealers have talons for reroll 1's to hit. Both hits on same 3+ so not even there.

T3 5+:

20 stealers: 31 dead with rending claws, 34.57 with scything talons
12 bikes: 10,66 with h2h, 6.2222 with guns=16.88 in total. Warboss isn't that much better than broodlord(oh and broodlord would up above casualties).

T4 2+:

stealers: 13,33333244315556 with rending claws. 5,185185184977778 with talons just for completion though you would have to be complete noob to use talons here
bikes: 1,555555555337778 with guns, 1,99999999198 with h2h for about 3.5 wounds. Again warboss doesn't compensate. Relative gap between bikes and stealers just goes up the better safe you have(no wonder since stealers have AP and bikes don't)

Bikes aren't something you use for h2h with orks. They are not h2h. They are harashment unit. They go around taking objectives and attacking tiny backfield units. They don't have punch to hurt anything serious. 20 stealers meanwhile even without broodlord will munch through units. If you use bikes don't go charging in expecting them to kill anything but chaff. Killing tough targets isn't even their job.

Next time you bring the salt be sure to read carefully, it looks bad.
1) yes they zoom, at 2cp cost. Yes they can charge 1t some chaff that is deployed at the edge of the deployment zone ,IF you are deployed at the edge of your own. And leave the broodlord buttnaked in open field .
2) The bikes shoots, the genestealers don't, as I wrote on the above example.
3) Dunno how many Terminators or equal you meet in your meta, but if you do, do not charge them with anything just as thought.
4) Did you even read the rest of the post or you just rage mathammered ? VS MEQ,GEQ,VEQ?

boy, you get this heated here, must be a pain to play on the field against you

 koooaei wrote:
Flashgitz seem to be a tad overpriced. Besides, i'm not sure that they will benefit from a freeboota trait if they're inside a vehivle.

I had an interesting thought on this. RAW, units in a transport recieve all modifiers and restrictions of the vehicle itself. So you could take a Freebooters truck, load it with deathskulls tankbustas, and they would inherit the +1 from the trukk

redboi wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Flashgitz seem to be a tad overpriced. Besides, i'm not sure that they will benefit from a freeboota trait if they're inside a vehivle.

I had an interesting thought on this. RAW, units in a transport recieve all modifiers and restrictions of the vehicle itself. So you could take a Freebooters truck, load it with deathskulls tankbustas, and they would inherit the +1 from the trukk

Just to keep the Freebooterz topic together. I want to know if a unit of Flashgitz wipes out a unit, then rolls their 6 for their show off ability, do they count as a friendly unit gaining the +1 to their hit rolls?

I rolled some dice because it's easier than math and it looks good. I'm thinking they are Primaris killers. If the Primaris are in units of 5, it could be really solid. Unless you have some maths that say it's not or what ever.
I have 15 flashgitz and plan to take 3 mobs of 5 in trukks. Just need to sort out the HQ for that detachment.

gungo wrote:
Morkanaut with kff with grot screen...
Morkanaut gives everyone around it a 5+ save and grots eat all the shooting on a 2+.

Grots can only eat shooting from one source; so focus fire is still somewhat effective.

Does anyone know yet if Nobs are keeping their ammo runts?


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Looks like runts are on the point list, but you can only take up to 2 now?